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About the Barbarian...

About the Barbarian

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#41
MortyTheGobbo

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I've had two barbarians in all my time playing Pillars. The first was an adventurer I tried to make into a tank, so I wouldn't have to take Eder everywhere. He didn't do too well. Mostly he couldn't withstand enemy fire very well, and dealt little damage. He did frighten and sicken enemies, but that just wasn't enough.

 

Then I got White March and recruited Maneha. She was a decent enough damage dealer. Heart of Fury does chew through mooks like popcorn. I kept her as a dual-wielder, since I hadn't used that style much before. It's a shame her 1st level pick is Frightening Yell... I feel like it loses value eventually.



#42
Boeroer

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Steamrolling the Dyrford area atm at lvl 9. Still no Cail... I'm a chicken. ;) I don't really need Tidefall, maybe that's why I don't feel a deep desire to go there. The other thing that repells me is the fps breakdown in that cave. :(

 

I can confirm that Belt of the Berserker works with Sanguine Plate's Frenzy (Greater Frenzy does not). So all in all I could have three Frenzy uses per encounter for 18.3 each (= nearly a minute of Frenzy). Sadly, the two uses of the Sanguine Plate will overlap all the time because the first one will reduce deflection even further which will lead to another crit pretty soon. Still figuring out how to prevent the second one from triggering. Maybe switching to hammer + shield and drinking a potion of Mirrored Image after the first one triggers?

 

One approach that works amazingly well is to use two hammers in order to reduce enemies to a state where the next hit will most likely kill a foe in carnage range, then switch to Rumbalt or Tall Grass (have boh with dfferent lashes, preferably Rumbalt) or Firebrand. This will result in a lot of 0-recovery attacks with the heavier weapons because every hit usually means a kill (Blood Thirst + Bloodlust). This speeds up fights a lot while some foes already start to fall onto their bottoms because carnage is now nearly even with  auto attack accuracy (without Accurate Carnage). Death Godlike would be a good addition to this, but Battle Forged saved my a$$ so many times by now I don't regret picking it. At lvl 9 it already does 18 burn damage on normal hit (base). With Frenzy and stuff (no Scion of Flame yet) it does 25. A crit will do additional 14 damage, resulting in 25/39 burn damage on hit/crit. 

 

Maybe I will get a third weapon slot for Sura's Supper Plate and switch to it when I get disabled. Or I will completely switch to that setup. Two retaliations + Flame Shield + Battle Forged + Barbaric Retaliation in the late game should do good damage even when I'm sitting or snoring around. Retaliation also triggers Blood Thirst. ;)

 

My tactics will be the follwing one I get Godansthunyr:

Cast Combusting Wounds on the enemies, jump into the fray with Dragon Leap, Frenzy will get triggered because I will receive a crit at once. Then I will trigger Heart of Fury with Godansthunyr in the offhand and Shatterstar in the right. This will most likely stun most enemies in HoF range (with 5 enemies I will have 5 chances on each foe to stun), then with the second strike I will cause crits with Shatterstar (annihilating + Doemenel), doing great damage. After this I will most likely have killed at least two foes. I will switch to Rumbalt and have Frenzy + Bloodlust (speeding my swings up) and most likely every swing will kill the last remaining foes, reducing recovery to zero. Even if not Frenzy + Bloodlust will help with hitting fast. If frenzy wears off before the encounter is done I will switch back to dual hammers. I think I will retrain and remove Two Weapon Style soon...


Edited by Boeroer, 23 April 2017 - 02:43 AM.


#43
Natures Bounty

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Steamrolling the Dyrford area atm at lvl 9. Still no Cail... I'm a chicken. ;) I don't really need Tidefall, maybe that's why I don't feel a deep desire to go there. The other thing that repells me is the fps breakdown in that cave. :(

 

I can confirm that Belt of the Berserker works with Sanguine Plate's Frenzy (Greater Frenzy does not). So all in all I could have three Frenzy uses per encounter for 18.3 each (= nearly a minute of Frenzy). Sadly, the two uses of the Sanguine Plate will overlap all the time because the first one will reduce deflection even further which will lead to another crit pretty soon. Still figuring out how to prevent the second one from triggering. Maybe switching to hammer + shield and drinking a potion of Mirrored Image after the first one triggers?

 

One approach that works amazingly well is to use two hammers in order to reduce enemies to a state where the next hit will most likely kill a foe in carnage range, then switch to Rumbalt or Tall Grass (have boh with dfferent lashes, preferably Rumbalt) or Firebrand. This will result in a lot of 0-recovery attacks with the heavier weapons because every hit usually means a kill (Blood Thirst + Bloodlust). This speeds up fights a lot while some foes already start to fall onto their bottoms because carnage is now nearly even with  auto attack accuracy (without Accurate Carnage). Death Godlike would be a good addition to this, but Battle Forged saved my a$$ so many times by now I don't regret picking it. At lvl 9 it already does 18 burn damage on normal hit (base). With Frenzy and stuff (no Scion of Flame yet) it does 25. A crit will do additional 14 damage, resulting in 25/39 burn damage on hit/crit. 

 

Maybe I will get a third weapon slot for Sura's Supper Plate and switch to it when I get disabled. Or I will completely switch to that setup. Two retaliations + Flame Shield + Battle Forged + Barbaric Retaliation in the late game should do good damage even when I'm sitting or snoring around. Retaliation also triggers Blood Thirst. ;)

 

My tactics will be the follwing one I get Godansthunyr:

Cast Combusting Wounds on the enemies, jump into the fray with Dragon Leap, Frenzy will get triggered because I will receive a crit at once. Then I will trigger Heart of Fury with Godansthunyr in the offhand and Shatterstar in the right. This will most likely stun most enemies in HoF range (with 5 enemies I will have 5 chances on each foe to stun), then with the second strike I will cause crits with Shatterstar (annihilating + Doemenel), doing great damage. After this I will most likely have killed at least two foes. I will switch to Rumbalt and have Frenzy + Bloodlust (speeding my swings up) and most likely every swing will kill the last remaining foes, reducing recovery to zero. Even if not Frenzy + Bloodlust will help with hitting fast. If frenzy wears off before the encounter is done I will switch back to dual hammers. I think I will retrain and remove Two Weapon Style soon...

 

And battle-forged used to work within the carnage AoE (geht hit by one foe, burn everyone around you). Does it still? 

If yes, I have not doubt that it is the optimal race for a solo barbarian, even with ToI on.

 

Do you plan to wear an item with second chance and take vengeful defeat? I thought it might synergize quite well with Battle-Forged because you wouldn't have to worry too much to stay below 50% endurance for longer periods. Because if you go down, you would again hurt everebody around you, plus revive with low endurance, so battle-forged would be on again.

It's a very risky strategy for an ultimate run, but possibly very powerful if you don't mind resting a bit more.



#44
Boeroer

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No, Battle Forged does no longer work with carnage. Retaliation items also worked like that back then. All sorts of retaliation got nerfed so it doesn't work with carnage and also doesn't generate focus.

 

Don't know if it's optimal, Moon Godlike would also be nice, even Pale Elf could be very nice (against Alpine Dragon for example). But all in all it's decent for a barb. Even more so for a monk.

 

Second Chance + Vengeful Defeat is a nice combo, but it only works once per rest (Second Chance got nerfed at some point from 1/encounter to 1/rest) and you have Knockout Injuries at ToI that you can't turn off. This annoys me the most. Of course second chance + Vengeful Defeat can be a life saver. Before you get up again you will deliver some nice blows that will raise the chances of your survival after you get back up. But so far, I didn't want to use this. I would rather put my points into Threatening Presence + Bloodlust and Blood Thirst which really make a strong combo with Rumbalt.

 

Later on I will use my dual hammers only for HoF (will remove Two Weapon Style and pick Vulnerable Attack) and then switch to Rumbalt I guess. At the moment it's: the more foes the better. He goes totally berserk at some point when enemies start dropping and slows down once the last two or three tough ones still stand.

 

Other alternative would be to stick to hammers and take Interrupting Blows + Mourning Gloves. Godansthunyr has 0.75 sec interrupts, Shatterstar has 1 sec. Maybe I don't need Rumbalt at all then. If I don't stun I will most likely interrupt for a good amount of time with each swing (and I will have 0 recovery). 


Edited by Boeroer, 25 April 2017 - 12:21 AM.


#45
firkraag888

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What are your battle tactics for boss fights? Eg dragons, bounties, ect

#46
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Scroll of Paralysis -> Potion of Flame Shield -> Combusting Wounds -> Dragon Leap -> Heart of Fury with Godanythunyr/Shatterstar -> Barbaric Blow -> switch to Rumbalt -> auto-attacks

 

Bounties with Vessels will obvioulsy be done with the Redeemer. Paralysis and Combusting Wounds don't work against certain bosses, so I will have to come up with something else. Tidefall with Beast Slayer enchantmetn could work well. Maybe I will retrain to Beast Slayer talent too once only the dragons are left (in the game). I will not try them before lvl 16.


Edited by Boeroer, 25 April 2017 - 05:24 AM.


#47
Munky_

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An obvious advantage would be having 10 free badass points from the get go.



#48
Kaylon

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You can replace paralysis scrolls with Abydon's Hammer once you get it, but of course it takes a weapon slot.


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#49
Boeroer

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Yes, I forgot about that. Good point. "Losing" a weapon slot is ok. The Hammer is also an acceptable weapon for Blood Thirst + stuff right after HoF... I guess. I'm still not sure if I should get Arms Bearer. It can be very benefical to carry different weapons (with slayer enchantments) around for special encounters when there's more than one enemy "species". Atm I have a dual hammer set for every monster group. FOr example it was very benefical to enchant Haba's Hammer with freeze and Jarpie's Warhammer with shock and put primordial-slaying on them. The Dweller went really smooth after that. Before, when I tested it with the normal PoTD game, ist was a real chore at lvl 10 and way too risky. Funny how little changes (+5 ACC, + 25% damage and the right lashes) can have such a big impact.


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#50
Kaylon

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Yes, a little bit here and there will end by making a big difference - when you solo optimization matters a lot and helps you push your character to the limit.


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#51
Boeroer

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Phew... that was close:
 
Ulti_cail.png?dl=1

I had to unleash 15 Crackling Bolts on him and his crew (Blood Thirst + mobs + AoE scrolls = awesome), but the fat guy I had to bring down wth an single handed exceptional hammer (+20 Acc) with freeze & beast slayer enchantment (+5 ACC, +25% dmg) + survival bonus against beast (+10 ACC).

And I'm running into another problem (also in this fight). For some reason Veteran's Recovery won't trigger anymore in some fights. Encounter starts and there's no Vet. Recovery. I think this is that case when I receive a crit right at the start of combat (fear aura also triggers spell holding even if you're immune to fear from Whiteleaf or stuff) which will trigger Frenzy + Consecrated Ground - and that somehow seems to prevent Veteran's Recovery from activating. Very, very annoying because now I either have to respec (don't need a talent that doesn't work in dragon fights) or find out how to change this.

Edited by Boeroer, 26 April 2017 - 05:07 AM.


#52
firkraag888

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It must be frickin hard to solo with a barb.

I've never tried to solo the game, don't no if I want to.

I could probably do it but it would be incredibly tedious and time consuming and I like collecting loot and would hate to have to sell it all

But if I was to solo I would do it with a wizard, Druid or a paladin. Maybe consider a priest but fighting enemies immune to fire would be extremely difficult.

Frost wizard would be best. Druid good for per encounter spirit shift and paladin would have good defences vs will, fort , ref

#53
smjjames

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@firkraag: You don't have to solo if you don't want to, you're not forced to. Some people do it for challenge reasons, some for RP reasons.

 

All you would really get out of it is bragging rights anyway.


Edited by smjjames, 27 April 2017 - 06:01 AM.


#54
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Actually it's not that hard. It's somewhere between rogue/fighter and monk/casters. Since you rest a lot in a solo run the per rest mechanics of casters are not limiting. I did finish solo runs with priest, wizard, chanter, druid and monk. I also did partial solo runs with rogue (non-pacifist) and fighter and canceled them because it was too tedious - mainly because they lack AoE. I didn't try to solo with a spell-bind-rogue (spells on Deathblows) or fighter (spells on Disiplined Barrage) though. That might be nice. You can get the Suntouched Mail and the Amulet of Summer Solstice fairly early which would give you 6 Sunbeams per rest.

 

The barb is harder than a monk in Act II because his ACC and deflection are lower and carnage rarely hits. But once you get Blood Thirst and use spells and scrolls it becomes easier. Casting AoE damaging spells with 0 recovery (as long as you kill stuff) is really powerful. Mass-interrupts also help you to survive. Now I'm lvl 11 and I would say he's better than a monk - just because of HoF. At least in the usual fights without bosses (includes bounties because those don't have real bosses). At lvl 10 the carnage ACC is the same as my auto-attacks, so it does good AoE damage and also start to crit every now and then. BUT the ACC bonus from survival doesn't work with carnage. So it's better to go for the healing bonus in my case (except if you have to hit foes with very high defenses - like Cail in the above case).

 

The good thing with a barb is that you don't necessarily have to kite and pull because he can hit most foes at once and can amass huge endurance and health numbers. It makes a solo run less tedious and more fun, at least for me. Act I is a bit nasty though. 


Edited by Boeroer, 26 April 2017 - 07:16 AM.


#55
BBMorti

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I am surprised a fight vs Cail the silent could be that 'hard' for a level 11 character. A wiz or priest would level him in less than a minute. A Chanter/Paladin wouldn't hardly take any damage in that fight, I am pretty sure.

 

Barb is a late bloomer for sure.. 


Edited by BBMorti, 01 May 2017 - 05:25 AM.


#56
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Lvl 10, not 11. The fight gave me the xp for the level-up.

Tough encounters are always easy with casters. Rest before, unleash all spells and win, then rest again.

Chanter or paladin at lvl 10 would take some time to kill him, bit less risky for sure. With a barb it took like 1 minute, but it's more risky. Especially because my barb is dual wielding hammers and has no shield. RES is 3.

Good thing is that a barb with decent CON can take a lot of beating at lvl 10 - with enough self healing capabilities. A caster will die quickly if he gets surrounded (shouldn't happen, but might) because his health will run out.

Ever tried Cail solo on PotD with a level 10 character - no kiting, no pulling? A paladin could do it of course, but it'll take forever.

Now at lvl 11. I'm doing WM I - and the Craig Ogres in Stalwart, including Darzir, were a cakewalk. I sneaked Godansthunyr from the Sky Dragon's place and now also carnage's ACC leads to some stuns every now and then (exceptional enchantment). I carry the stunning hammer in the offhand because that's the hand that attacks first with Full Attacks. HoF will first stun most enemies and then comes Shatterstar with the high Interrupt and the annihilating crits. Works pretty nicely so far. Also, Battle Forge now starts to really do some serious damage. Next talents/ability will be Blooded and Scion of Flame I guess. Since I'm below 50% endurance all the time (and only drink potions or activate Savage Defiance once I hit around 20% endurance) this should be OK and add +45% damage to Battle Forged and +25% to Barbaric Retaliation.

#57
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A wizard wouldn't really take any damage in this fight, his buffs are too strong at that point. Also I don't see how he would get surrounded, unless he did it on purpose. There is both a natural choke point and corners, in this fight. 

 

A paladin/Chanter with investment in lore would kill that encounter rather quickly, just spam a few spell scrolls. With 8+ lore it would be a slaughter. ;)

 

Yeah I tried Cali solo with no kiting or pulling on Potd. A tanky Wiz would not take damage here with buffs, surrounded or not. But I would just fight in a choke point, maybe pop a few summons in front, then spam AoE. Solo tanky Priest/Wizard's with Sanguine can clear bounties at level 11, I know this from experience.

 

A Chanter or Paladin wouldn't need the summons, but definitely not need kiting, either. If I was solo with one of those I would have lore enough to clear the fight with scrolls, if I wanted to be quick. They would both be tanky in a solo run.

 

A tanky priest haven't met his full potential, yet, at level 10/11 for sure, but he can be very durable.. and can level the fight with his own spells or scrolls in little time. Later he will be the, arguably,  strongest class in the game. Such a fun class to play after avatar kicks in! ^^

 

You plan to start popping out videos when PoE2 hits, @boeroer ? I have wondered how you play, after reading comment from you here on the forum.

 

You are clearly very knowledgeable, but I imagine you have a unique play style. My impression is you like Monk/Barb classes a lot and I noticed you prefer to play with no injuries from knockdowns. Which made me think you must have a lot of knockdowns outside solo play?  :grin:

 

I would be curious to see for sure.



#58
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I have a lot of Knockouts on purpose when I use a barbarian with Vengeful Defeat. Besides that I don't have them that often.

In Trial of Iron you can't turn off Knockout Injuries.

Usually I don't play with dedicated tanks but sturdy frontliners who can take a beating but won't try to hold a lot of enemies singlehandedly. I also don't use DPS glass cannons. That way my party never collapses just because the main tank gets disabled or I can't kill stuff because my DPS squishy goes down. I like all classes except rogue. Not because I don't like the class itself, but because it lacks interesting abilities, is tedious to play and is not very effective for all that afflictions hassle (except early game).

I also did solo playthroughs with every class and agree that casters like wizard and priest are easier than martial classes. Priest is special because he has all the prayers and also all the good ACC buffs. You can't substitute spell spamming. This barb is a special challenge. Especially because I go full offense and only survive through self heals and carnage-cc and interrupts. I'm aiming for the Ultimate achievement with this. Bounties will work, but dragons might prove to be too difficult, we'll see. I already have serious issues with Adragans despite my very high fortitude defense.

My general rule of thumb is that accuracy beats everything else in this game - so that's my focus. One reason why I like paladins and priests. Dragons are a joke if you can always crit-charm or crit-prone them with a char whose ACC you buffed into the sky.

Barbs and monks are special fun for me because of their mechanics.

I can't record vids and play at the same time. My hardware is to weak. I run PoE at minimum graphics (resolution 1920*1080) and still have fps drops in certain maps.

I will soon buy a new machine, but it will not be sooner than July I guess.

Edited by Boeroer, 01 May 2017 - 09:55 AM.

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#59
Belfaldurnik

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I am surprised a fight vs Cail the silent could be that 'hard' for a level 11 character. A wiz or priest would level him in less than a minute. A Chanter/Paladin wouldn't hardly take any damage in that fight, I am pretty sure.

 

Confirmed.



#60
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As I already said, the fight took far less then a minute at lvl 10, not 11. Because I used scrolls + Blood Thirst. At level 11 it would have been a lot easier because of Heart of Fury, but still not as easy as with a caster.

It's more risky with a barb (if you want to play him like a barb). You have to get into the fray in order to hit as many foes as possible with carnage. For a caster nearly all tough fights are easier. You place yourself accordingly so that you can't get surrounded and then unleash all your spells, preferably buffs first, then CC and then damage. Most AoE spells have such a big area that you can hit most of the Xaurips + Cail. That way you will kill all the annoying priests as well who - in the barb's case - would start to heal their allies all the time and that's annoying as hell. You can't do anything but use scrolls to deal with that if you can't reach them with carnage.

I used 15 Crackling Bolts with nearly no recovery (because nearly every Bolt caused the death of at least one xaurip) and it was good. But this just demonstrates how powerful spells are.

And even a lvl 11 character can be killed by Cail if you make a mistake- or one of the remaining bugs emerges (potion drinking for example). This is Trial of Iron after all and you don't want to get too bold.

Edited by Boeroer, 02 May 2017 - 07:57 AM.






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