The big nerf list (patch 1.2) (WIP)

[dunehunter]

Imo Cleave and Charge should function similarly as Carnage, only deal part of weapon base damage, no proc on hit triggered.

[hilfazer]

Imo Cleave and Charge should function similarly as Carnage, only deal part of weapon base damage, no proc on hit triggered.

 

Why are proc on hit so problematic?

[Silvaren]

I just killed Guardian of Ukaizo with one spell: empowered Minoletta's Missile Salvo. 16 missiles dealing 80-150 damage in combat log, which hit Guardian of Ukaizo for 1975 damage total and insta kill him. It seems pretty OP.

 

(evoker - veteran difficulty)

[Zeitzbach]

I just killed Guardian of Ukaizo with one spell: empowered Minoletta's Missile Salvo. 16 missiles dealing 80-150 damage in combat log, which hit Guardian of Ukaizo for 1975 damage total and insta kill him. It seems pretty OP.

 

(evoker - veteran difficulty)

Salvo is op for bosses. But tbh, this can easily be fixed if they just make Ukaizo and special bosses into phases. Ukaizo is supposed to be a phase type boss and every 33% health you take off him, he goes into invulnerable mode and loses his head, returning with 2 heads and then 3 heads at the final phase. For some reason, the first invul set just come so late which is, imo, a bug and is why Salvo can 100-0 him.

 

I also won't mind if they just increase Salvo spread area while keeping the same projectile size and amount. It will be better as a quick AoE and no longer so busted for single-target burst damage. It will function like a fast meteor instead if the player is willing to sacrifice the damage for speed.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Zeitzbach

[dunehunter]

 

Imo Cleave and Charge should function similarly as Carnage, only deal part of weapon base damage, no proc on hit triggered.

 

Why are proc on hit so problematic?

 

 

Because that's why they nerf carnage i guess?

[hilfazer]

 

 

Imo Cleave and Charge should function similarly as Carnage, only deal part of weapon base damage, no proc on hit triggered.

 

Why are proc on hit so problematic?

 

 

Because that's why they nerf carnage i guess?

 

 

Hmm, i don't know. IIRC in PoE1 only arbalests had on-hit (on-crit, actually) effect but carnage doesn't work with ranged weapons.

[dunehunter]

 

 

 

Imo Cleave and Charge should function similarly as Carnage, only deal part of weapon base damage, no proc on hit triggered.

 

Why are proc on hit so problematic?

 

 

Because that's why they nerf carnage i guess?

 

 

Hmm, i don't know. IIRC in PoE1 only arbalests had on-hit (on-crit, actually) effect but carnage doesn't work with ranged weapons.

 

 

Errr I have no idea why you mention ranged weapon here. But barbarians are pretty op because proc on hit + carnage, remember that dagger which triggers firebug?

[Silvaren]

 

I just killed Guardian of Ukaizo with one spell: empowered Minoletta's Missile Salvo. 16 missiles dealing 80-150 damage in combat log, which hit Guardian of Ukaizo for 1975 damage total and insta kill him. It seems pretty OP.

 

(evoker - veteran difficulty)

Salvo is op for bosses. But tbh, this can easily be fixed if they just make Ukaizo and special bosses into phases. Ukaizo is supposed to be a phase type boss and every 33% health you take off him, he goes into invulnerable mode and loses his head, returning with 2 heads and then 3 heads at the final phase. For some reason, the first invul set just come so late which is, imo, a bug and is why Salvo can 100-0 him.

 

I also won't mind if they just increase Salvo spread area while keeping the same projectile size and amount. It will be better as a quick AoE and no longer so busted for single-target burst damage. It will function like a fast meteor instead if the player is willing to sacrifice the damage for speed.

 

It works just as Isaac's Greater Missile Storm in Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2. As AoE is decent but it has little impact if spread among many targets, while it's extremly powerfull if there is only one target in the area of effect.

[Gunzwei]

I rather enemies be threatening that us having to be nerfed down to their level of incompetence.

 

Casters (druid/wizard/priest/cipher) would need an overhaul to cast/recovery times. Making a more interesting behavior setup really needs casters to be able to react to a situation immediately. The current timings don't really leave much room for that.

[PIRI]

 

 

I just killed Guardian of Ukaizo with one spell: empowered Minoletta's Missile Salvo. 16 missiles dealing 80-150 damage in combat log, which hit Guardian of Ukaizo for 1975 damage total and insta kill him. It seems pretty OP.

 

(evoker - veteran difficulty)

Salvo is op for bosses. But tbh, this can easily be fixed if they just make Ukaizo and special bosses into phases. Ukaizo is supposed to be a phase type boss and every 33% health you take off him, he goes into invulnerable mode and loses his head, returning with 2 heads and then 3 heads at the final phase. For some reason, the first invul set just come so late which is, imo, a bug and is why Salvo can 100-0 him.

 

I also won't mind if they just increase Salvo spread area while keeping the same projectile size and amount. It will be better as a quick AoE and no longer so busted for single-target burst damage. It will function like a fast meteor instead if the player is willing to sacrifice the damage for speed.

 

It works just as Isaac's Greater Missile Storm in Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2. As AoE is decent but it has little impact if spread among many targets, while it's extremly powerfull if there is only one target in the area of effect.

 

Empowered Isaac's greater missile storm... second level of myrkul temple... vampire monks... I just got flashback.

[Zoso der Goldene]

Why do people ask for nerfs in a single player game?

 

Just because you personally don't find something fun, it doesn't mean everyone else agrees with your preferences.

Because content is tailored to average power level.

You have to minimize standard deviation of power level to be able to target as many play styles and tastes as possible.

[Ryzak]

 

Why do people ask for nerfs in a single player game?

 

Just because you personally don't find something fun, it doesn't mean everyone else agrees with your preferences.

Because content is tailored to average power level.

You have to minimize standard deviation of power level to be able to target as many play styles and tastes as possible.

 

Not to be snarky, but the fact that wizards in Baldur's Gate 2 were blatantly more powerful than any other class didn't make the game-play any less fun. The presumption that balance needs to be *between classes* is a mistake.

 

Balance is between you and the enemy you face - if the enemy is as fully capable of exploiting a charge->cleave through your party as you are, then balance is exactly where it needs to be.

[Zelse]

 

-Charge. Full attack on everyone in aoe is again pretty much a cheaper/much lower level heart of fury and is problematic with aoe weapons and such. Suggested to do ability damage similar to monk's flagellants path instead of a weapon attack.

 

 

 

Priest

 

-Devotions of the faithful could get a nerf for a really long time, but they are not gamebreaking in a way some other abilities are and priest spell list is overall kinda lackluster so it can wait for a more fine grained rebalance.

 

Devotions of the faithful was nerfed in patch 1.1, now gives 10 acc. Balanced now imo.

 

Fighter charge full attack was removed in 1.1. Charge doesnt do damage anymore only stuns.

 

Im certain about priest and im sure the description was changed for charge. Didnt try charge after the patch tho.

 

Make sure you look at the game notes and official patchnotes.

The wiki(s) arent getting updated rn.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Zelse

[dunehunter]

 

 

-Charge. Full attack on everyone in aoe is again pretty much a cheaper/much lower level heart of fury and is problematic with aoe weapons and such. Suggested to do ability damage similar to monk's flagellants path instead of a weapon attack.

 

 

 

Priest

 

-Devotions of the faithful could get a nerf for a really long time, but they are not gamebreaking in a way some other abilities are and priest spell list is overall kinda lackluster so it can wait for a more fine grained rebalance.

 

Devotions of the faithful was nerfed in patch 1.1, now gives 10 acc. Balanced now imo.

 

Fighter charge full attack was removed in 1.1. Charge doesnt do damage anymore only stuns.

 

Im certain about priest and im sure the description was changed for charge. Didnt try charge after the patch tho.

 

Make sure you look at the game notes and official patchnotes.

The wiki(s) arent getting updated rn.

Make sure u look at the date OP post the thread.

[Lokithecat]

 

Nature Godlike.

True, I'm tired of all my characters being green. I'll think of a good solution and add to the OP.

 

Why do people ask for nerfs in a single player game?

 

Just because you personally don't find something fun, it doesn't mean everyone else agrees with your preferences.

Because the game has 0 replayability due to being trivial AF atm?

 

 

All of my characters are built using the most powerful / broken races and classes available.  Game is too easy make it not.

 

Or maybe stop trying to use the 'best' races and classes?

[Tigranes]

Nonsense. If they fixed the imbalances, then you could play every race and class as you like and still have fun.

 

Why is it better to leave a game at a place where you have to avoid half the options (whether because they're OP or too weak or whatever)?

[Zelse]

 

Make sure u look at the date OP post the thread.

 

eeh fair enough

 

It was midnight and he changed the title.. meh

[dunehunter]

Magran's flavor + Sun and Moon is still very OP combo for fire attacks, they gives +4 PL for one of the most common damage type.

[AndreaColombo]

Isn’t it also one of the most commonly resisted?

[dunehunter]

Isn’t it also one of the most commonly resisted?

 

Yeah but unless enemy is totally immune to fire, +PL gives more Penetrations, +4 PL is a lot because other gears that +PL is nerfed to mostly +1.

[Toobz]

How about instead of nerfing everything into the ground, you exert a little self control and not use things you think are broken.  Not everyone wants to have to separately pull individual enemies.

[dunehunter]

How about instead of nerfing everything into the ground, you exert a little self control and not use things you think are broken.  Not everyone wants to have to separately pull individual enemies.

 

Would you say the same thing if something is underpowered? OP and UP are relative, instead of ignoring these things that are too good and too bad, people in this thread is making solid recommendation to make the game better.

[Tigranes]

A lot of stuff is ridiculously OP without cheesing.

 

People get obsessed with buff/nerf which is a completely false dichotomy.

 

Imagine the Sword of Minsc does 30 damage, and the Hammer of Boo does 15, and the enemy has 25 health.

 

New patch nerfs Sword to 20, and people cry "noooo nerf is bad!!!! just buff stuff!!!"

 

So instead you buff Hammer to 25, and now everybody is 1-hit killing everything, instead of just people with the sword. That's fair, but kind of stupid.

 

So a new patch buffs enemies so they have 40 health.

 

Now the Sword and Hammer are sort of equal, I guess, but you probably need to buff everything else as well, from weapons to spells, because the whole equation has changed.

 

What's the point? Why not just adjust the sword? It doesn't matter if you're putting numbers up or numbers down, "buff" or "nerf" is not actually the most salient part. What matters is the relative strength of these things.

 

Another thing people say is, nerfs make things "useless", i.e. less exciting and significant.

 

Well let's say the Sword of Minsc was released with 60 damage instead. So it's chopping everything into fine dust. Then we nerf it to 30 damage. Is that still bad because it's nerfing? Or, considering how the Sword was already pretty OP at 30 damage in our previous example, is it a much needed nerf?

 

When Sword gets nerfed from 60 to 30, saying "wow that's a big cut because it's cut in half from before" is totally up the wrong tree. The real question is "is this a big/small/appropriate cut relative to other weapons and enemy HP and so on".

 

So I don't care if Obsidian buffs or nerfs. As long as different stuff is in a reasonable zone of comparable strength, so that there are interesting choices.

[AndreaColombo]

If the sword ships with 60 damage and you bring it down to 15, however, you overnerf it and make it a bad item.

 

If in the process you also nerf the Amulet of Viconia from 5% to 3% bonus damage (hint hint), you’ve just made a completely unnecessary nerf to something that wasn’t breaking anybody’s game.

 

So yeah, nerfing where necessary is cool but not all nerfs are equal, and not all are equally necessary.

Edited June 18, 2018 by AndreaColombo

[Kaylon]

A lot of stuff is ridiculously OP without cheesing.

 

People get obsessed with buff/nerf which is a completely false dichotomy.

 

Imagine the Sword of Minsc does 30 damage, and the Hammer of Boo does 15, and the enemy has 25 health.

 

New patch nerfs Sword to 20, and people cry "noooo nerf is bad!!!! just buff stuff!!!"

 

So instead you buff Hammer to 25, and now everybody is 1-hit killing everything, instead of just people with the sword. That's fair, but kind of stupid.

 

So a new patch buffs enemies so they have 40 health.

 

Now the Sword and Hammer are sort of equal, I guess, but you probably need to buff everything else as well, from weapons to spells, because the whole equation has changed.

 

What's the point? Why not just adjust the sword? It doesn't matter if you're putting numbers up or numbers down, "buff" or "nerf" is not actually the most salient part. What matters is the relative strength of these things.

 

Another thing people say is, nerfs make things "useless", i.e. less exciting and significant.

 

Well let's say the Sword of Minsc was released with 60 damage instead. So it's chopping everything into fine dust. Then we nerf it to 30 damage. Is that still bad because it's nerfing? Or, considering how the Sword was already pretty OP at 30 damage in our previous example, is it a much needed nerf?

 

When Sword gets nerfed from 60 to 30, saying "wow that's a big cut because it's cut in half from before" is totally up the wrong tree. The real question is "is this a big/small/appropriate cut relative to other weapons and enemy HP and so on".

 

So I don't care if Obsidian buffs or nerfs. As long as different stuff is in a reasonable zone of comparable strength, so that there are interesting choices.

Guess what? The last patch didn't nerfed just one item, it nerfed most items while they weren't even OP... So your example and justifications are just bad... In fact I would say that most items/abilities are now completely irrelevant because their effect is just a joke. Do you even ask yourself why your PoE2 character has weaker abilities/items than his PoE1 version? 

 

Now there are just a handful of core abilities used to differentiate the classes, while the rest is just fluff. Also I'm surprised you find OP when a fighter can 1 shot an enemy (and why everyone picks melle as examples?), while a mage who tanks like a fighter and can 1 shot all enemies at once is just fine... Why nobody calls for nerfs for casters defenses/damage?

 

Who needs weapons now? You pick the melee class with the best suvivability, you combine it with a caster and you still have a better character than any melee class/weapon combo you had before the patch. People will start to talk now about how melee A/caster is so powerful and then a guy like you will come saying that it's obvious the melee A  should be nerfed because it's simpler than to change all the casters. How do you like my example? 

Edited June 18, 2018 by Kaylon