The big nerf list (patch 1.2) (WIP)

[MadDemiurg]

List of all things OP and broken. To be updated. Including only high priority stuff for now, along with some suggestions for possible fixes.

 

General

 

-Empower. I think Empower on abilities is currently broken as it often nearly doubles the damage of powerful PL9 abilities. The problem though, is that it doesn't seem possible to balance things with how it works now as it can break even non OP abilities. A quick fix would probably be toning it down to +5 PL, however I'd rather see it either removed so you can only use empowers to restore resources or changed to do something else e.g. guarantee a hit.

-Unlimited empower on summons. Summons with abilities have access to unlimited empower, dealing way too much damage with their abilities.

-Nature godlike. +2 PL is just too big of a bonus for any power based characters. +1 should keep it useful without being as much of a must have.

 

Barbarian

 

-Noting of super high priority.

 

Chanter

 

-Set to their purpose, they all knew their part/brilliant inspiration. - Completely broken, restoring 1 power pool per 3 sec. Rework into anything else really, e.g. more affliction duration, no friendly fire, anything else that could make sense for t3 int inspiration. Just not this. Makes his "heart did fill with the light of the dawn obsolete", that one is probably more or less balanced although it does allow some crazy combos in a party.

-Mercy and kindness followed where she walked - too strong in general and breaks stuff like fighter's unbending. Nerf to 50% for now.

 

Cipher

 

Cipher is a tricky one because it's a trash class (probably the worst one in the game) until higher PLs so nerfs should be combined with buffs to a large number of spells. However:

 

-Ascended - at higher levels, ascended power spam becomes too ridiculous. Suggest to make powers cost less when in ascended state rather than 0.

-Time parasite - should not stack, +300% action speed is bonkers. 50% should be plenty.

-Death of 1000 cuts - doesn't work at all atm, but just looking at the numbers, probably needs to be toned down once fixed.

 

Druid

 

-Noting of super high priority.

 

Fighter

 

-Mob stance. Free heart of fury on kill is way too OP. Suggest to change to 1 free full attack against a random enemy on kill. It's still pretty much bloodthirst, a much higher PL barb ability, but at least not as broken.

-Charge. Full attack on everyone in aoe is again pretty much a cheaper/much lower level heart of fury and is problematic with aoe weapons and such. Suggested to do ability damage similar to monk's flagellants path instead of a weapon attack.

-Unbending - Change the 75% healing upgrade to some other inspiration. It would still be broken with any healing enhancements. 50% might be manageable.

 

Monk

 

-Swift flurry. Should only trigger once on aoe/multi projectile weapon attacks. Completely broken atm.

-Turning wheel. Nerf to 2.5% lash/wound. 50% "passive" lash is too massive especially considering all other buffs monks have.

-Inner death. Absurd nuke. Nerf to +250% crit damage (this is supposed to be combined with empower and turning wheel nerfs above)

-Empowered strikes. Absurd buff. Nerf to +10 acc & +3 pen.

 

Paladin

 

-Faith and conviction. Nerf by about 25%, gives way too much def with maxed dispositions.

-Shieldbearers of St. Elga - Change cannot die on LoH to grant x pt damage shield. It would be better earlygame but not so abuseable.

 

Priest

 

-Devotions of the faithful could get a nerf for a really long time, but they are not gamebreaking in a way some other abilities are and priest spell list is overall kinda lackluster so it can wait for a more fine grained rebalance.

 

Ranger

 

-Nothing of super high priority.

 

Rogue

 

-Nothing of super high priority. I'd look into some things like Streetfighter after the most obviously broken stuff has been fixed though.

 

Wizard

 

-Missile spells. Less scaling (maybe +1 projectile per 3 or 4 PL instead of 2). This is supposed to be combined with empower nerf.

-Meteor Shower - halve the damage.

Edited May 18, 2018 by MadDemiurg

[Enoch]

Nature Godlike.

[Climhazzard]

Nature Godlike.

 

This please.  I really hate how the human racial was nerfed from PoE (it no longer activates as a buff that will stay until the duration runs out), it wasn't even that good in PoE, but now Nature Godlike became literally the best race for anything involving power level.

[lord_wc]

Why do people ask for nerfs in a single player game?

 

Just because you personally don't find something fun, it doesn't mean everyone else agrees with your preferences.

[MadDemiurg]

Nature Godlike.

True, I'm tired of all my characters being green. I'll think of a good solution and add to the OP.

 

Why do people ask for nerfs in a single player game?

 

Just because you personally don't find something fun, it doesn't mean everyone else agrees with your preferences.

Because the game has 0 replayability due to being trivial AF atm?

[Ciphys]

I also think they should buff the other godlike races. Right now their passives (except Nature godlike, which is op) is not worth giving up the headslot. There are some real good helmets in the game, and having fire/moon godlike not scale with level whatsoever is just silly, since they just become useless really fast. Doesn't need to be PoE1 levels of scaling, but just something to help them not become trash by level 6+.

 

I don't have much of an opinion of death godlike though.. but it shares the same issue with human racial imo: Far too situational. If you ever get low, you are probably going to get healed within seconds anyway. Not much point risking anything by toying with low hp. 

[Ciphys]

And something I heard they are going to adress but just throwing it out anyway: I would love them to equalize weapon styles better. Dual wielding is just far superior... but rather than nerfing it(again...), bringing other weapon styles "up to bar" with dual wielding might make things a bit more interesting. I say this because imo; dual wielding is the only style that feels "smooth". Recovery times are just pretty lame outside of two weapon style. 

Edited May 17, 2018 by Ciphys

[Voltron]

While with some agree, going with that way of thinking will only make game dull and boring at some point. I agree that some things need tweaks but nerfing just everything which is better than Priest 1 st level spells is imo not way to go.

Definitely agree on Empower though, Inner Death and Unbending.

 

Disagree hardly on Paladin and Chanter though. One unique thing about Chanter is that he can restore that resources on Level VII, which imo gives him that great unique strong support presance in later game. And Paladin passive defenses is what makes him be that tank. Without it Fighter is better tank.

Balancing is ok, but balancing game only towards a small portion of players who seek and abuse every broken thing is imo bad idea. In every game balancing around small munchies-group always end up badly.

If someone wants, he can just edit with Notebad numbers on any ability (it's super easy) or use console.

 

 

 

More of a problem is game being too easy and enemies being too weak. Not that much of most of stuff you mentioned being broken.

Just my few cents. Carry on.



Just for everyone else: you can nerf your own stuff using Notepad++ and edit abilities numbers and not worry about patch nerfing to the ground things you like. I always do that and stay away from auto-updating

Edited May 17, 2018 by Voltron

[MadDemiurg]

I'm not trying to discuss buffs in detail here as full rebalance of all classes would be impossible to handle in 1 thread. I'll make dedicated ones for specific classes and their abilities eventually (at least for some). This is supposed to be a list of the most severe instances of OP/broken atm.

[lord_wc]

 

Nature Godlike.

True, I'm tired of all my characters being green. I'll think of a good solution and add to the OP.

 

Why do people ask for nerfs in a single player game?

 

Just because you personally don't find something fun, it doesn't mean everyone else agrees with your preferences.

Because the game has 0 replayability due to being trivial AF atm?

 

Yet here I am replaying this the 3rd time, while I quit from 1 when I finished TCS on the last patch, as it devolved to a wet noodle fight simulator due to people like you.

Powerful abilities are fun, they should fix bugs (like inifinte cloaking and spell sniping), maybe add some AI or limit the most powerful abilities by resource cost. What you ask is gutting the game from any and all fun. Honestly castrating the first game was enough, thank you, don't mess this one up as well.

 

According to you BGII shouldn't have any replayability due to (amongst many) Timestop or UAI, yet it's still one of those games that keep people entertained. Replayability comes from fun and complexity not from everyone doing 1 damage to each other just with different color.

Edited May 17, 2018 by lord_wc

[MadDemiurg]

While with some agree, going with that way of thinking will only make game dull and boring at some point. I agree that some things need tweaks but nerfing just everything which is better than Priest 1 st level spells is imo not way to go.

 

Definitely agree on Empower though, Inner Death and Unbending.

 

Disagree hardly on Paladin and Chanter though. One unique thing about Chanter is that he can restore that resources on Level VII, which imo gives him that great unique strong support presance in later game. And Paladin passive defenses is what makes him be that tank. Without it Fighter is better tank.

 

Balancing is ok, but balancing game only towards a small portion of players who seek and abuse every broken thing is imo bad idea.

 

If someone wants, he can just edit with Notebad numbers on any ability (it's super easy) or use console.

 

 

 

More of a problem is game being too easy and enemies being too weak.

 

Chanter unlimited resources is ridiculously OP as it allows unlimited spam of the most powerful abilities of other classes. It's probably the most OP thing on the list. Paladin was a great tank in POE1, but with much less bonus def. Current def is just way too much, I'm not asking to nerf it into the ground, just make it reasonable.

[Climhazzard]

While with some agree, going with that way of thinking will only make game dull and boring at some point. I agree that some things need tweaks but nerfing just everything which is better than Priest 1 st level spells is imo not way to go.

 

Definitely agree on Empower though, Inner Death and Unbending.

 

Disagree hardly on Paladin and Chanter though. One unique thing about Chanter is that he can restore that resources on Level VII, which imo gives him that great unique strong support presance in later game. And Paladin passive defenses is what makes him be that tank. Without it Fighter is better tank.

 

Balancing is ok, but balancing game only towards a small portion of players who seek and abuse every broken thing is imo bad idea. In every game balancing around small munchies-group always end up badly.

 

If someone wants, he can just edit with Notebad numbers on any ability (it's super easy) or use console.

 

 

 

More of a problem is game being too easy and enemies being too weak. Not that much of most of stuff you mentioned being broken.

Just my few cents. Carry on.

 

 

 

Just for everyone else: you can nerf your own stuff using Notepad++ and edit abilities numbers and not worry about patch nerfing to the ground things you like. I always do that and stay away from auto-updating

 

 

Fighting the Dragons (on PoTD) I kept waiting for the powerful breath attack or wing buffet that would massively hurt my party...  they never came.  Every boss is a sandbag.  Maybe the final boss will be an exception?  If you level up past 12 or so the game becomes a big snooze fest.  OP abilities and items don't help, but I gave up even bothering to change my gear after a point because there's no need to and the game was still a snooze fest.

 

In other words, I agree encounters being to weak is part of the problem.  There's no doubt certain empowered spells are way to OP though.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Climhazzard

[knownastherat]

In PoE nobody picked Nature Godlike and when it gets some love in PoE2 it should be nerfed because you are tired of your characters being green?  If you are tried of your characters being green,  pick those who are not green, simple.

 

Multi-classing increased replayability. The argument that because some mechanics make the game trivial thus there is no replayability is just wrong. Do not use them and you will have tons of replayability, simple.

 

It just blows my mind every time I read this line of reasoning. 

[MadDemiurg]

 

 

Nature Godlike.

True, I'm tired of all my characters being green. I'll think of a good solution and add to the OP.

 

Why do people ask for nerfs in a single player game?

 

Just because you personally don't find something fun, it doesn't mean everyone else agrees with your preferences.

Because the game has 0 replayability due to being trivial AF atm?

 

Yet here I am replaying this the 3rd time, while I quit from 1 when I finished TCS on the last patch, as it devolved to a wet noodle fight simulator due to people like you.

Powerful abilities are fun, they should fix bugs (like inifinte cloaking and spell sniping), maybe add some AI or limit the most powerful abilities by resource cost. What you ask is gutting the game from any and all fun. Honestly castrating the first game was enough, thank you, don't mess this one up as well.

 

According to you BGII shouldn't have any replayability due to (amongst many) Timestop or UAI, yet it's still one of those games that keep people entertained. Replayability comes from fun and complexity not from everyone doing 1 damage to each other just with different color.

 

You can always play on easy if you like oneshotting enemies so much.

 

Without fixing most of the broken stuff this game requires no tactics, builds, anything. It's just "press the kill everything button". There's no complexity in a game that requires no tactics.

 

Anyways, I don't want to be arguing about this too much and derailing the thread.

 

Believe me, things WILL be nerfed, because that's how Obsidian sees these games. Even Tyranny fixed the most ridiculous exploits eventually and they took it way less seriously I think. I've just made this thread to help the devs with the compilation of stuff community finds OP.

Edited May 17, 2018 by MadDemiurg

[Zeitzbach]

How about we give enemies better skills if it can be helped. For example, all the nerfs aiming at buff skills can easily be negated by just making enemies use -beneficial duration skills which is extremely scarce yet every class can easily gain access to one.

[Climhazzard]

I also feel like skill scaling items are way out of line with the rest of the items in the game, they're so blatantly broken I've been purposely avoiding them.

[Voltron]

 

While with some agree, going with that way of thinking will only make game dull and boring at some point. I agree that some things need tweaks but nerfing just everything which is better than Priest 1 st level spells is imo not way to go.

 

Definitely agree on Empower though, Inner Death and Unbending.

 

Disagree hardly on Paladin and Chanter though. One unique thing about Chanter is that he can restore that resources on Level VII, which imo gives him that great unique strong support presance in later game. And Paladin passive defenses is what makes him be that tank. Without it Fighter is better tank.

 

Balancing is ok, but balancing game only towards a small portion of players who seek and abuse every broken thing is imo bad idea.

 

If someone wants, he can just edit with Notebad numbers on any ability (it's super easy) or use console.

 

 

 

More of a problem is game being too easy and enemies being too weak.

 

Chanter unlimited resources is ridiculously OP as it allows unlimited spam of the most powerful abilities of other classes. It's probably the most OP thing on the list. Paladin was a great tank in POE1, but with much less bonus def. Current def is just way too much, I'm not asking to nerf it into the ground, just make it reasonable.

 

 

Disagree on Chanter- it gives you later game fun of actually using your unique abilities. We are talking about single player RPG here. Please give me example of RPG when at the end of the game you were not basicelly a God- that's the point in RPG too. In the end you usually become one of the strongest mortals/immortals around.

 

There is also a fun factor here. Also - if you think this Invocation is too strong, then how about.....

 

Don't use it? It only gives that as it's selling point- resources regen. Just don't learn this one and your problem is solved?

 

Because I find it one of better ways to have fun in the end game and just use my abilities and have fun with them intead of calculating resources.

 

But anyway, It doesn't concern me so I will stop here.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Voltron

[Elric Galad]

Probably Brilliant inspiration is broken, not the Chanter ability. There should be a Tier 3 Intellect Inspiration.

Maybe the problem the 3s regen speed, especially for casters.

Not sure about fighter nerfs. They might be too strong abilities, but not truly broken. Fighter itself is not "broken" at the moment.

Even in PoE1, some abilities were a bit too strong but the classes were still more or less balanced.

The only issue is Cleave triggered from Cleave IMHO.

[knownastherat]

TBH I do not quite understand that idea behind "Empower". What is it for? 

[MadDemiurg]

Probably Brilliant inspiration is broken, not the Chanter ability. There should be a Tier 3 Intellect Inspiration.

Maybe the problem the 3s regen speed, especially for casters.

 

Not sure about fighter nerfs. They might be too strong abilities, but not truly broken. Fighter itself is not "broken" at the moment.

Even in PoE1, some abilities were a bit too strong but the classes were still more or less balanced.

The only issue is Cleave triggered from Cleave IMHO.

Fighter is imo 3rd most OP class overall, after Chanter and Monk. His PL 2-3 abilities are stronger than Barb PL 7-8. Maybe tied with Wizard, they are weaker low level but probably stronger high level, a lot of their OPness relies on empower though.

 

And yes, Brilliant inspiration is the problem. But there's no other ability that gives it, so there's not much difference.

Edited May 17, 2018 by MadDemiurg

[MadDemiurg]

TBH I do not quite understand that idea behind "Empower". What is it for? 

It's a per rest resource.

 

It either adds +10 power levels to the ability you use or restores half of your per encounter resources.

[kelticfury]

 

Believe me, things WILL be nerfed, because that's how Obsidian sees these games. Even Tyranny fixed the most ridiculous exploits eventually and they took it way less seriously I think. I've just made this thread to help the devs with the compilation of stuff community finds OP.

 

 

From the responses so far it doesn't sound like you are speaking for the community.

[MadDemiurg]

 

 

Believe me, things WILL be nerfed, because that's how Obsidian sees these games. Even Tyranny fixed the most ridiculous exploits eventually and they took it way less seriously I think. I've just made this thread to help the devs with the compilation of stuff community finds OP.

 

 

From the responses so far it doesn't sound like you are speaking for the community.

 

All these abilities were mentioned as OP in various other threads. As for responses here, opinion is clearly split. There are some people that like nerfs and some that don't. What I was saying, nerfs will most likely happen, they've been happening in the beta a lot and there will be more to come.

[Climhazzard]

Obsidian has already made it clear they think balance is important for single player games.  I don't think the "why balance single player games? I want to be OP" types are going to change their view at this point, so there is purpose to this thread.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Climhazzard

[kelticfury]

Personally I think that PotD tuning needs to be live before calling for nerfs.