Unplayable

[nemesis205bw]

I am not using anything best or super optimized. Just playing the game with my favorite class cipher and his mate paladin that does the tanking. Of course I have good knowledge about the mechanics or abilities, why should I force myself to put points in different attributes or use different abilities? It's tactical game and everyone does what they can to make characters stronger. Do you solve math problems or whatever the easiest method you come up with or you force yourself to not use certain tools or equations to make this problem harder?

 

If someone wants to become God in a game one can pick easiest difficulty or use console to give his characters 99 in every attribute. For us, people that like to be challenged and forced into intellectual analysis and actual thinking, people who like to solve each encounter like a puzzle and people who like using their brain, this game has nothing to offer. I would nerf every mentioned ability and few others and put blessing option for people with lower IQ which gives them those broken abities so they can feel better about themselves.

Also, it's not just about the game difficulty. It's about the general abilities design and mechanics which are awful and needs overhaul. Best place to start is armor rating followed by summons (especially drakes fireballs). Make armor more progressive because currently having only 3 armor points more let you take minimum dmg. Make it flat reduction like in POE1 and additional reduction by percent equal to armor advantage times 10. So if you have 17 armor, you take 17 dmg less plus 10% less for each point above enemy pen. Harder hitting enemies would naturally deal more dmg to armored characters which makes sense. Seeing ogres hitting my pal for 4dmg is laughable

[knownastherat]

The game (mechanics) can be subject to criticism, however,

 

Why should I force myself to put points in different attributes or use different abilities?

 

To be forced and challenged into intellectual analysis and actual thinking. 

 

if one wants to be challenged there are means to do so. 

[Eraflure]

As a racer, I enjoy flattening my tires before a race instead of finding opponents of my level, because that is a fun and logical thing to do.

[nemesis205bw]

you forgot about this one:

 

 

 

 Do you solve math problems or whatever the easiest method you come up with or you force yourself to not use certain tools or equations to make this problem harder?

[Phyriel]

Fist Pillars weren't perfect, but they managed to weed out most of the broken stuff eventually. I'd like Pillars 2 to be at least on the same level.

 

That's not entirely true ;p however in poe 1 broken builds/ideas are not apparent to newcomers as much as in poe 2

 

P.S mod move this to general discussion please. 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Phyriel

[knownastherat]

As a racer, I enjoy flattening my tires before a race instead of finding opponents of my level, because that is a fun and logical thing to do.

 

As a racer, you race against other humans. Soon, AI will be so advanced that humans will not beat it in a virtual environment (see OpenAI or Aphla Go). So, race while you can.

 

If one wants to have a challenge, one does not cross a river on a bridge. It's simple, and logical, as that. 

Edited May 15, 2018 by knownastherat

[nemesis205bw]

P.S mod move this to general discussion please. 

 

 

 

NO. We talk about character builds & strategies. There are already topics about POTD. We just list broken things here for devs to see and hopefully do something about it.

Edited May 15, 2018 by nemesis205bw

[realjitter]

monk/ranger combo with a blunderbuss for example feels like activating an ingame cheat...

-something is wrong  when you can 1 shot entire screens of monsters..(without buffs, fully upgraded weapons or optimized party setup and whatnot)

-something is wrong when you never have to use any potions or whatever on the hardest difficulty..

Yeah, and something is definitely wrong when you dont even have to play at all, i just calibrated the ai midgame and thats it, no tactics, no challenge, nothing..

just broken beyond broken abilities all over the place, poor mobs..

i wouldn't even know where to begin with balancing tbh,

everything is just so messed up, idk, remove empower from the game i'd say, rebalance all classes, redesign all encounters?

something like this...

 

and that's just the tip of the iceberg about what's wrong with the game from a combat perspective..

 

-legendary weapons are too powerfull and too easy to obtain..

-no need for anything, meaning that you dont need a healer or a tank or a ddler (which can be fine of course but it still feels a little awkward)

-no epicness in combat, magmadrake? oh, you mean that thing on the ground which died after 10 seconds without doing any dmg to my party?...

-and much much more..

 

too bad, so sad..

but hey, i loved the graphics and voice actors, they really nailed the overall pirate theme in this game...

[MadDemiurg]

 

Fist Pillars weren't perfect, but they managed to weed out most of the broken stuff eventually. I'd like Pillars 2 to be at least on the same level.

 

That's not entirely true ;p however in poe 1 broken builds/ideas are not apparent to newcomers as much as in poe 2

 

P.S mod move this to general discussion please. 

 

I did TCS in first pillars with several classes, so believe me, I know what I'm talking about. Most of the blatantly bugged/broken stuff like one stands alone was eventually fixed.

 

Anyways, it's pretty clear from PoE1 that devs do care about balancing and fixing bugged or overpowered stuff. A lot of things were nerfed in the backer beta, and I would expect this to continue, whether you like it or not.

 

It's just a bit disappointing that this game is in much worse state than PoE1 on release. But I guess with multiclassing and higher level cap that's to be expected. 

Edited May 15, 2018 by MadDemiurg

[dunehunter]

One question is do the dev wanna take this seriously? If they really wanna balance things, they would already fix the swift flurry in beta 1. But after all the test playthrough our testers do, it is still there. So a bit disappointed about this.

[MadDemiurg]

Tbh I feel like the release was rushed and they barely managed to put the game together on schedule. They did fix some stuff which was easy to fix, but obviously not everything. I'd give it some (a lot of) time.

Edited May 15, 2018 by MadDemiurg

[lastpawn]

This post got some traction despite being needlessly incendiary, so I'll post on difficulty here.

 

I agree with the CONTENT in OP. Especially with regards to abilities that make the player immortal. It doesn't matter if enemies get 200% more damage and health if the character is literally immune to their attacks, and can do massive damage multiple times per encounter.

 

Please understand that I'm not a min-maxer. Frankly, I think that there should be overpowered abilities and weapons; if anything, the original Pillars was too "balanced." That said, I think that it's fair to fine-tune certain overpowered abilities. Players who desire a sense of overwhelming power can just play on a lower difficulty and achieve that feeling there. Currently players looking for a challenge are required to ignore content and play a less complete game (i.e., intentionally avoiding abilities or entire subclasses). I'd like to be able to use all the abilities and STILL feel like I have to pay attention and occasionally struggle.

 

Anyway, it's up to devs to make the game that they want to make, but there are five difficulty levels in the game, I assume for a reason. I think Veteran should be made somewhat harder, and Path of the Damned MUCH harder. 

[Sotnik]

- why lay of hand can be casted 12 times per encounter for 120 sec of immortality (yes, it makes you immortal now) or 18 times with empower.

 

- what if I refill my zeal with genius inspiration? Can I die somehow?

I suppose one of the solutions to this is giving the enemies MUCH more CC on PotD. Still I am not sure it is a good solution. I remember myself managing well in PoE1 solo till first Petrify. And then all your efforts are invested into more and more Fortitude.

 

A better possible solution: as soon as you get immortality for (base duration)*(duration modifiers), you get immunity to immortality for 2*(base duration).

Edited May 15, 2018 by Sotnik

[Emortalik]

 

- why lay of hand can be casted 12 times per encounter for 120 sec of immortality (yes, it makes you immortal now) or 18 times with empower.

 

- what if I refill my zeal with genius inspiration? Can I die somehow?

I suppose one of the solutions to this is giving the enemies more CC on PotD. Still I am not sure it is a good solution. I remember myself dealing with PotD solo well in PoE1 till first Petrify. And then all your efforts are invested into more and more Fortitude.

 

A better possible solution: as soon as you get immortality for (base duration)*(Int modifier), you get immunity to immortality for 2*(base duration).

 

They just updated their beta patch on steam to version 86 which fixes level-scaling.  Might be prudent to test it out before moving forward with more balance suggestions if the level-scaling never worked to begin with.  Link for those who wanna see beta patch notes : https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/98361-fixes-to-the-patch-beta-build/

[1TTFFSSE]

they should give enemies the same abilities your toons have and improve their ai to to take advantage of them. also smart enemy combinations and formations. but that is a lot of work. I can say that certain areas in white march 1 and 2 where fun like the whole map before cancelhout fo example. 

[KentDA]

Sotnik, that's akin to what many MMORPGs use. Which is perfectly fine. Powerful abilities carry a debuff that prevent you from using them again for a certain amount of time.

 

Perhaps limiting the "cannot die" to once per character (per encounter) would go a long way to keeping the ability useful, if limited.

[Sotnik]

Sotnik, that's akin to what many MMORPGs use. Which is perfectly fine. Powerful abilities carry a debuff that prevent you from using them again for a certain amount of time.

 

Perhaps limiting the "cannot die" to once per character (per encounter) would go a long way to keeping the ability useful, if limited.

Then if you cast Lay on Hands to heal a slightly injured character, you will lose its immortality feature for the rest of the battle. As an alternative to both our suggestions, immortality could disappear after the first damage that would otherwise kill the character.

 

 

 

 

 

- why lay of hand can be casted 12 times per encounter for 120 sec of immortality (yes, it makes you immortal now) or 18 times with empower.

 

- what if I refill my zeal with genius inspiration? Can I die somehow?

I suppose one of the solutions to this is giving the enemies more CC on PotD. Still I am not sure it is a good solution. I remember myself dealing with PotD solo well in PoE1 till first Petrify. And then all your efforts are invested into more and more Fortitude.

 

A better possible solution: as soon as you get immortality for (base duration)*(Int modifier), you get immunity to immortality for 2*(base duration).

 

They just updated their beta patch on steam to version 86 which fixes level-scaling.  Might be prudent to test it out before moving forward with more balance suggestions if the level-scaling never worked to begin with.  Link for those who wanna see beta patch notes : https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/98361-fixes-to-the-patch-beta-build/

 

 

Level-scaling is not relevant to everyone.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Sotnik

[Judicator]

According to survey on this forum, actually most people play POTD or veteran. Those who play lower difficulties regret it and reroll on higher difficulty. If POTD is so stupidly easy that I can 2 man party clear 3 skulls areas, then how must other difficulties feel... I didn't even try to make super strong combo, I know there are even more op builds out there. I dumped all other chars and use only watcher single class ascended cipher and mercenary paladin/chanter as someone to use amplified wave on. Still easy, literally 0 challenge. I don't even have to think. If cipher die, my paladin just keep summoning drakes and wins fights because noone can hurt 18 armor dude with 15hp regen aura and lay of hands that give extreme regen plus immortality.

You know most people who played the game do not post here, right?

[Judicator]

It's impossible to make challenging PoTD without enemies being MMO damage sponges unless you nerf all the OP stuff when you have abilities than make you virtually immortal or do thousands of damage.

 

Fist Pillars weren't perfect, but they managed to weed out most of the broken stuff eventually. I'd like Pillars 2 to be at least on the same level.

The first Pillars is honestly boring and not hard at all. I think I died once in my last playthrough. Admittedly that was on Hard, not PotD, but the point remains. At least this one is fun.

[GuyNice]

 

It's impossible to make challenging PoTD without enemies being MMO damage sponges unless you nerf all the OP stuff when you have abilities than make you virtually immortal or do thousands of damage.

 

Fist Pillars weren't perfect, but they managed to weed out most of the broken stuff eventually. I'd like Pillars 2 to be at least on the same level.

The first Pillars is honestly boring and not hard at all. I think I died once in my last playthrough. Admittedly that was on Hard, not PotD, but the point remains. At least this one is fun.

 

You can't compare PotD difficulty in both games without having played PotD in the first game. So that point does not remain. Whether you had fun or not has to do with many things other than balance, and is perhaps not immediately relevant to the first point you were trying to make.

[MadDemiurg]

 

It's impossible to make challenging PoTD without enemies being MMO damage sponges unless you nerf all the OP stuff when you have abilities than make you virtually immortal or do thousands of damage.

 

Fist Pillars weren't perfect, but they managed to weed out most of the broken stuff eventually. I'd like Pillars 2 to be at least on the same level.

The first Pillars is honestly boring and not hard at all. I think I died once in my last playthrough. Admittedly that was on Hard, not PotD, but the point remains. At least this one is fun.

 

First Pillars were still easy with a party if you had an idea how to optimize even a little. Solo was a nice challenge though. In PoE2 even PoTD solo is trivial. I'm also not sure what makes this one "fun" compared to PoE1. Exploding enemies with 1 click?

[Soulmojo]

 what if I refill my zeal with genius inspiration? Can I die somehow?

 

Monk

- why can I get immune to melee dmg so early in this game? Dance of death + blade tunning + high int = immunity to melee dmg as soon as power lvl 3 and it also reflects FULL DMG back with 100% accuracy

 

- shatter pillar - can you delete this subclass pls?

 

- why level 9 abilities are joke? 1500 dmg with 100% accuracy or AOE + untargetability that can be spammed forever untill your enemies die?

 

- why can he have + 80% dmg from turning wheel and lightning strikes that can be active all the time? Its broken when multiclassing.

 

 

 

agreed here.

 

turning wheel seems stupidly overpowered. I would prefer iron wheel, but the intellect and damage bonus seem so brokenly good it is a must have. I would go and say even with 25% it is too overpowered. 

 

If you ask me, the preferable thing to change here would be is to change INT bonus to something else (PER is a good candidate), and balance abilities with longer duration. If you invest to Int and use duality +10INT bonus, often results stupidly long spell and ability duration if you multiclass. Even monks own stuns will be super long. 10+ sec repeatable aoe stun? cmon

 

As for the turning wheel...well as long as the ability gives damage it will always be superior to +armor from iron wheel.

It would be better if turning wheel somehow would be separated from duality...and be a standalone ability, under different name, and give turning wheel some other bonus.

 

 

monk

make shatter pillar no longer recover wounds by ability dmg. Only basic attacks should count. Set max limit to 10 to compensate

 

 

I think increasing the damage needed to gain a wound + increasing wound costs of of high level abilites should do the trick. agreed on the 10 wound limit. I say this last from beta. you simply cannot balance abilites effectively with 2 subs having 10 wound and one having 5. 

 

 

As for level 9 abilites, imo the numbers of inner death should cut half. and silent death should do primary attack only (6x primary attack in one salvo is extremely good on its own).

Edited May 16, 2018 by Soulmojo

[Judicator]

 

 

It's impossible to make challenging PoTD without enemies being MMO damage sponges unless you nerf all the OP stuff when you have abilities than make you virtually immortal or do thousands of damage.

 

Fist Pillars weren't perfect, but they managed to weed out most of the broken stuff eventually. I'd like Pillars 2 to be at least on the same level.

The first Pillars is honestly boring and not hard at all. I think I died once in my last playthrough. Admittedly that was on Hard, not PotD, but the point remains. At least this one is fun.

 

First Pillars were still easy with a party if you had an idea how to optimize even a little. Solo was a nice challenge though. In PoE2 even PoTD solo is trivial. I'm also not sure what makes this one "fun" compared to PoE1. Exploding enemies with 1 click?

 

Personally, I enjoy all the cheese. It was the same in BG and BG2. If you knew what you were doing you could rape the game on every difficulty. PoE 1 was incredibly constrained and over-balanced to the point of tedium for me. At least in Deadfire I can make a bunch of different fun builds to explode enemies with 1 click.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Judicator

[dunehunter]

 

 what if I refill my zeal with genius inspiration? Can I die somehow?

 

Monk

- why can I get immune to melee dmg so early in this game? Dance of death + blade tunning + high int = immunity to melee dmg as soon as power lvl 3 and it also reflects FULL DMG back with 100% accuracy

 

- shatter pillar - can you delete this subclass pls?

 

- why level 9 abilities are joke? 1500 dmg with 100% accuracy or AOE + untargetability that can be spammed forever untill your enemies die?

 

- why can he have + 80% dmg from turning wheel and lightning strikes that can be active all the time? Its broken when multiclassing.

 

 

 

agreed here.

 

turning wheel seems stupidly overpowered. I would prefer iron wheel, but the intellect and damage bonus seem so brokenly good it is a must have. I would go and say even with 25% it is too overpowered. 

 

 

Yeah compare to some passive this is really op, and it works with spells or spell-like abilities.

[GuyNice]

Personally, I enjoy all the cheese. It was the same in BG and BG2. If you knew what you were doing you could rape the game on every difficulty. PoE 1 was incredibly constrained and over-balanced to the point of tedium for me. At least in Deadfire I can make a bunch of different fun builds to explode enemies with 1 click.

 

There's always story time if you don't value difficulty. No reason to deprive those who enjoy a challenge.

Edited May 16, 2018 by GuyNice