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Why are people so obsessed with finding the most overpowered thing to steamroll the game with. I can't think of anything much more boring. How about finding a combo which is most fun and interesting to play and is strong without being broken?

 

Because OP = not fun, so hopefully Obsidian can check the thread and fix the issue.

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Why are people so obsessed with finding the most overpowered thing to steamroll the game with. I can't think of anything much more boring. How about finding a combo which is most fun and interesting to play and is strong without being broken?

 

Why are people so obsessed with other people being obsessed with finding the most overpowered thing to streamroll the game with?

 

Wait, maybe they consider it fun? Or right, that's a different point of view on things which seems to not ring a bell to you.

 

Well, imagine that- many people have different view on what is "fun" and not.

 

I can't think of anything much more boring than playing with some random inefficient build and struggle in game.

 

Imagine that....

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Just making an observation, really no need to police my post.

 

Why come into this topic then? Why police us?

 

Seems pretty clear what the topic is about considering the title.

 

Stop worrying about how other people are playing the game.

Edited by Maxzero
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Okay so I tried a few of the other Chanter summons like "Animated Weapons", "Ogres, "Swamp Creatures, and The T5 Drakes, their empowered attacks also do not consume their own empower charges.

 

But now I'm trying to figure out if those subsequent attacks actually benefit from Empower, or if it is just a visual bug.

 

Oh and Animated Weapons are prety nice. They each randomly get a diff class ability like Flames of Devotion or Wounding Arrow depending on the weapon type. 8 of them and do good dmg. Pure Beckoner is awesome-sauce. 

Edited by Dongom
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Okay so I tried a few of the other Chanter summons like "Animated Weapons", "Ogres, "Swamp Creatures, and The T5 Drakes, their empowered attacks also do not consume their own empower charges.

 

But now I'm trying to figure out if those subsequent attacks actually benefit from Empower, or if it is just a visual bug.

 

Oh and Animated Weapons are prety nice. They each randomly get a diff class ability like Flames of Devotion or Wounding Arrow depending on the weapon type. 8 of them and do good dmg. Pure Beckoner is awesome-sauce.

So its only Ogres and above who get Empowered attack options?

 

Would of thought Wisps would have some attack options.

 

Maybe upgraded Wyrms get options as well since the description mentions unique attacks.

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Okay so I tried a few of the other Chanter summons like "Animated Weapons", "Ogres, "Swamp Creatures, and The T5 Drakes, their empowered attacks also do not consume their own empower charges.

 

But now I'm trying to figure out if those subsequent attacks actually benefit from Empower, or if it is just a visual bug.

 

Oh and Animated Weapons are prety nice. They each randomly get a diff class ability like Flames of Devotion or Wounding Arrow depending on the weapon type. 8 of them and do good dmg. Pure Beckoner is awesome-sauce.

So its only Ogres and above who get Empowered attack options?

 

Would of thought Wisps would have some attack options.

 

Maybe upgraded Wyrms get options as well since the description mentions unique attacks.

 

 

Didn't have time to test those 2 but it is possible. But even if it did expend a charge, 6 empowers is a lot, and would refresh on resummon. That number is probably higher than intended as well lol.

Edited by Dongom
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I never understood the need to nerf things in a singleplayer game. So, some things are OP, and? It doesn't kill build diversity because a) there are a lot of OP things as of now b) more importantly: this is part of the game's challenge. Just like anything is ez mode on story, and almost everything is underpowered on PoTD solo, I look at this as just one more way to differentiate between players who want that godly feeling and those that want an easier time of it. I mean, I'm not saying that perfectly balanced classes (whatever that is) wouldn't be a noble ideal, but, really, who is suffering (other than your enemies) if you have something overpowered in a single player game? Your challenge? Well then, pick a class/skill combo with less immense results, problem solved xD

I hate this argument against balance in single player games. It is the designer's responsibility to balance the game, not the player's. Avoiding content is not a solution to balance issues.

 

Players who want to feel more powerful can lower the difficulty. Players who want a challenge should have access to that experience on the highest difficulty, regardless of what abilities they want to make use of.

 

Man, it's a Single Player RPG- you play broken build ONLY if you chose to do so- you don't want, don't do it. If someone will want he will just use console or cheats, god mode, one-shot everything. It's single player RPG- you are broken as you want.

 

 

That ignores the fact that many players, myself included, feel that artificially restricting yourself from broken combos isn't true difficulty.

 

You can call it lack of willpower/discipline if you wish, but I believe that balance within singleplayer games is important.

 

One of things I like best about these types of games is creating a strong build, or party, that can annihilate enemies.  That enjoyment is destroyed by easily exploitable abusive combos that don't require any thought put into them.

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A balanced single player game shows that the producers actually care about the game and the experience that the players will receive. Alot of people will generally play the strongest and most broken build, and there is nothing wrong with that but to say that they should use willpower to refrain from that is denying them the right to experience that particular class/combo.

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I never understood the need to nerf things in a singleplayer game. So, some things are OP, and? It doesn't kill build diversity because a) there are a lot of OP things as of now b) more importantly: this is part of the game's challenge. Just like anything is ez mode on story, and almost everything is underpowered on PoTD solo, I look at this as just one more way to differentiate between players who want that godly feeling and those that want an easier time of it. I mean, I'm not saying that perfectly balanced classes (whatever that is) wouldn't be a noble ideal, but, really, who is suffering (other than your enemies) if you have something overpowered in a single player game? Your challenge? Well then, pick a class/skill combo with less immense results, problem solved xD

I hate this argument against balance in single player games. It is the designer's responsibility to balance the game, not the player's. Avoiding content is not a solution to balance issues.

 

Players who want to feel more powerful can lower the difficulty. Players who want a challenge should have access to that experience on the highest difficulty, regardless of what abilities they want to make use of.

Man, it's a Single Player RPG- you play broken build ONLY if you chose to do so- you don't want, don't do it. If someone will want he will just use console or cheats, god mode, one-shot everything. It's single player RPG- you are broken as you want.

That ignores the fact that many players, myself included, feel that artificially restricting yourself from broken combos isn't true difficulty.

 

You can call it lack of willpower/discipline if you wish, but I believe that balance within singleplayer games is important.

 

One of things I like best about these types of games is creating a strong build, or party, that can annihilate enemies. That enjoyment is destroyed by easily exploitable abusive combos that don't require any thought put into them.

And who decides what is too broken? So far the 'broken' includes Beckoners, Monks, Paladins, Berzerkers, Devoted, Soulblades and Evokers.

 

Rangers, Rogues and Priests are not OP (except Devotions of the Faithful).

 

If everything is OP then nothing is.

Edited by Maxzero
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I never understood the need to nerf things in a singleplayer game. So, some things are OP, and? It doesn't kill build diversity because a) there are a lot of OP things as of now b) more importantly: this is part of the game's challenge. Just like anything is ez mode on story, and almost everything is underpowered on PoTD solo, I look at this as just one more way to differentiate between players who want that godly feeling and those that want an easier time of it. I mean, I'm not saying that perfectly balanced classes (whatever that is) wouldn't be a noble ideal, but, really, who is suffering (other than your enemies) if you have something overpowered in a single player game? Your challenge? Well then, pick a class/skill combo with less immense results, problem solved xD

I hate this argument against balance in single player games. It is the designer's responsibility to balance the game, not the player's. Avoiding content is not a solution to balance issues.

 

Players who want to feel more powerful can lower the difficulty. Players who want a challenge should have access to that experience on the highest difficulty, regardless of what abilities they want to make use of.

Man, it's a Single Player RPG- you play broken build ONLY if you chose to do so- you don't want, don't do it. If someone will want he will just use console or cheats, god mode, one-shot everything. It's single player RPG- you are broken as you want.
That ignores the fact that many players, myself included, feel that artificially restricting yourself from broken combos isn't true difficulty.

 

You can call it lack of willpower/discipline if you wish, but I believe that balance within singleplayer games is important.

 

One of things I like best about these types of games is creating a strong build, or party, that can annihilate enemies. That enjoyment is destroyed by easily exploitable abusive combos that don't require any thought put into them.

And who decides what is too broken? So far the 'broken' includes Beckoners, Monks, Paladins, Berzerkers, Devoted, Soulblades and Evokers.

 

Rangers, Rogues and Priests are not OP (except Devotions of the Faithful).

 

If everything is OP then nothing is.

 

 

> And who decides what is too broken?

 

I believe a combination of developer competence and community exploration can quite firmly prove such things.

 

> Rangers, Rogues and Priests are not OP

 

I never said they were.

 

> If everything is OP then nothing is.

 

That doesn't make any sense.

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If everything seems 'OP' then the problem is leaning towards the actual encounters in the game and the difficulty's not being tuned properly. I have avoided doing a PoTD run because I know they haven't tuned it yet but even on hard the game just seems insanely easy compared to PoE 1 and I am not playing one of the popular broken combos.

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@aweigh - Yes, since REMAKING THE MUSIC SCORE was something done in oh... not a single game in known memory in my 25+ years of playing video games. Great argument, bro. Sigh, look, we are not going to agree here, but please don't make non-sensical arguments and then accuse me of doing the same. Balance is important, I said as much, but it's not CRUCIAL that, in a game, with a billion different options, classes, talents, skills, builds, devs spend time and time and time on making sure that everything is just perfectly balanced according to your needs... in a single player game. If you think it's too good - don't use it - it really is that simple. Yes, if things are utterly broken, sure, they can and will get around it, but trying to make fun of me for saying that dev time is better spent on adding more content to the game than 'fixing' the balance between a billion different variables in a single player game - well, buddy, you know... I don't even know what to say to that, honestly, it's that dumb, imho.

 

Again, I must draw your attention to the original PoE - it had a billion iterations of patches, a lot of this sort of stuff was done for balancing and STILL casters were so far ahead of anything else that they had to massively nerf them in the second part, because people were still bitching.  That and ofc the fact that those not bitching about their OP-ness bitched about the per rest abilities, so once that was taken out, the balance hammer added annoying cast times, which rather effectively neutered a lot of the casters. And what's the story on release? A bunch of people complaining that melee classes are the only real way to go atm and that casters are too weak. Go figure.

You're wrong. Balancing the game properly is indicative of the game's overall quality and results in a wider variety of strategic and tactical choices for player permutations.

 

Once again you're using a straw man, this time saying people will bitch regardless what you do so why do anything. Previously you were saying why spend dev time on one thing instead of another thing. 

 

What nonsense straw man will you use next?

 

EDIT: I forgot to address your usage of the logical fallacy that is "just don't use it" twice!

Edited by aweigh0101
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I never understood the need to nerf things in a singleplayer game. So, some things are OP, and? It doesn't kill build diversity because a) there are a lot of OP things as of now b) more importantly: this is part of the game's challenge. Just like anything is ez mode on story, and almost everything is underpowered on PoTD solo, I look at this as just one more way to differentiate between players who want that godly feeling and those that want an easier time of it. I mean, I'm not saying that perfectly balanced classes (whatever that is) wouldn't be a noble ideal, but, really, who is suffering (other than your enemies) if you have something overpowered in a single player game? Your challenge? Well then, pick a class/skill combo with less immense results, problem solved xD

I hate this argument against balance in single player games. It is the designer's responsibility to balance the game, not the player's. Avoiding content is not a solution to balance issues.

 

Players who want to feel more powerful can lower the difficulty. Players who want a challenge should have access to that experience on the highest difficulty, regardless of what abilities they want to make use of.

Man, it's a Single Player RPG- you play broken build ONLY if you chose to do so- you don't want, don't do it. If someone will want he will just use console or cheats, god mode, one-shot everything. It's single player RPG- you are broken as you want.
That ignores the fact that many players, myself included, feel that artificially restricting yourself from broken combos isn't true difficulty.

 

You can call it lack of willpower/discipline if you wish, but I believe that balance within singleplayer games is important.

 

One of things I like best about these types of games is creating a strong build, or party, that can annihilate enemies. That enjoyment is destroyed by easily exploitable abusive combos that don't require any thought put into them.

And who decides what is too broken? So far the 'broken' includes Beckoners, Monks, Paladins, Berzerkers, Devoted, Soulblades and Evokers.

 

Rangers, Rogues and Priests are not OP (except Devotions of the Faithful).

 

If everything is OP then nothing is.

> And who decides what is too broken?

 

I believe a combination of developer competence and community exploration can quite firmly prove such things.

 

> Rangers, Rogues and Priests are not OP

 

I never said they were.

 

> If everything is OP then nothing is.

 

That doesn't make any sense.

Well since you didn't specify which combo you thought was OP and instead complained about the posters instead what am I supposed to think?

 

In fact your original post didn't want OP builds to be discussed at all yet now you want community discussion?

 

To jog your memory:

 

"Why are people so obsessed with finding the most overpowered thing to steamroll the game with. I can't think of anything much more boring. How about finding a combo which is most fun and interesting to play and is strong without being broken?"

 

Your original post.

 

So lets now discuss this properly. Which builds do YOU think are OP?

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Paladin: Faith and Conviction: Leave tutorial island with +20 all defense is too good.

 

 

Don't think this one is gamebreaking since deflection is not +20. I still get hit a lot (POTD) with my paladin tank, despite sword+board, resolve bonus and other sources (currently 76 deflection total). It would be only gamebreaking if the enemies wouldn't hit anymore (they definitely do). Still one of the best sources of defense

Edited by pstone
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That ignores the fact that many players, myself included, feel that artificially restricting yourself from broken combos isn't true difficulty.

 

 

 

Why "artificially"? If something is broken you avoid it naturally. You prefer something that's working.

 

Same with UP/OP. Even the naming itself indicates a problem. Balanced is better than either UP or OP.

Vancian =/= per rest.

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Paladin: Faith and Conviction: Leave tutorial island with +20 all defense is too good.

 

Don't think this one is gamebreaking since deflection is not +20. I still get hit a lot (POTD) with my paladin tank, despite sword+board, resolve bonus and other sources (currently 76 deflection total). It would be only gamebreaking if the enemies wouldn't hit anymore (they definitely do). Still one of the best sources of defense
Honestly deflection in general isn't what it used to be.

 

Basically defense is all about armour and healing.

 

And CCing and terrain manipulation to minimise attacks inbound in the first place.

Edited by Maxzero
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I never understood the need to nerf things in a singleplayer game. So, some things are OP, and? It doesn't kill build diversity because a) there are a lot of OP things as of now b) more importantly: this is part of the game's challenge. Just like anything is ez mode on story, and almost everything is underpowered on PoTD solo, I look at this as just one more way to differentiate between players who want that godly feeling and those that want an easier time of it. I mean, I'm not saying that perfectly balanced classes (whatever that is) wouldn't be a noble ideal, but, really, who is suffering (other than your enemies) if you have something overpowered in a single player game? Your challenge? Well then, pick a class/skill combo with less immense results, problem solved xD

I hate this argument against balance in single player games. It is the designer's responsibility to balance the game, not the player's. Avoiding content is not a solution to balance issues.

 

Players who want to feel more powerful can lower the difficulty. Players who want a challenge should have access to that experience on the highest difficulty, regardless of what abilities they want to make use of.

Man, it's a Single Player RPG- you play broken build ONLY if you chose to do so- you don't want, don't do it. If someone will want he will just use console or cheats, god mode, one-shot everything. It's single player RPG- you are broken as you want.
That ignores the fact that many players, myself included, feel that artificially restricting yourself from broken combos isn't true difficulty.

 

You can call it lack of willpower/discipline if you wish, but I believe that balance within singleplayer games is important.

 

One of things I like best about these types of games is creating a strong build, or party, that can annihilate enemies. That enjoyment is destroyed by easily exploitable abusive combos that don't require any thought put into them.

And who decides what is too broken? So far the 'broken' includes Beckoners, Monks, Paladins, Berzerkers, Devoted, Soulblades and Evokers.

 

Rangers, Rogues and Priests are not OP (except Devotions of the Faithful).

 

If everything is OP then nothing is.

> And who decides what is too broken?

 

I believe a combination of developer competence and community exploration can quite firmly prove such things.

 

> Rangers, Rogues and Priests are not OP

 

I never said they were.

 

> If everything is OP then nothing is.

 

That doesn't make any sense.

Well since you didn't specify which combo you thought was OP and instead complained about the posters instead what am I supposed to think?

 

In fact your original post didn't want OP builds to be discussed at all yet now you want community discussion?

 

To jog your memory:

 

"Why are people so obsessed with finding the most overpowered thing to steamroll the game with. I can't think of anything much more boring. How about finding a combo which is most fun and interesting to play and is strong without being broken?"

 

Your original post.

 

So lets now discuss this properly. Which builds do YOU think are OP?

 

 

 

Well, this is awkward.

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I never understood the need to nerf things in a singleplayer game. So, some things are OP, and? It doesn't kill build diversity because a) there are a lot of OP things as of now b) more importantly: this is part of the game's challenge. Just like anything is ez mode on story, and almost everything is underpowered on PoTD solo, I look at this as just one more way to differentiate between players who want that godly feeling and those that want an easier time of it. I mean, I'm not saying that perfectly balanced classes (whatever that is) wouldn't be a noble ideal, but, really, who is suffering (other than your enemies) if you have something overpowered in a single player game? Your challenge? Well then, pick a class/skill combo with less immense results, problem solved xD

I hate this argument against balance in single player games. It is the designer's responsibility to balance the game, not the player's. Avoiding content is not a solution to balance issues.

 

Players who want to feel more powerful can lower the difficulty. Players who want a challenge should have access to that experience on the highest difficulty, regardless of what abilities they want to make use of.

Man, it's a Single Player RPG- you play broken build ONLY if you chose to do so- you don't want, don't do it. If someone will want he will just use console or cheats, god mode, one-shot everything. It's single player RPG- you are broken as you want.
That ignores the fact that many players, myself included, feel that artificially restricting yourself from broken combos isn't true difficulty.

 

You can call it lack of willpower/discipline if you wish, but I believe that balance within singleplayer games is important.

 

One of things I like best about these types of games is creating a strong build, or party, that can annihilate enemies. That enjoyment is destroyed by easily exploitable abusive combos that don't require any thought put into them.

And who decides what is too broken? So far the 'broken' includes Beckoners, Monks, Paladins, Berzerkers, Devoted, Soulblades and Evokers.

 

Rangers, Rogues and Priests are not OP (except Devotions of the Faithful).

 

If everything is OP then nothing is.

> And who decides what is too broken?

 

I believe a combination of developer competence and community exploration can quite firmly prove such things.

 

> Rangers, Rogues and Priests are not OP

 

I never said they were.

 

> If everything is OP then nothing is.

 

That doesn't make any sense.

Well since you didn't specify which combo you thought was OP and instead complained about the posters instead what am I supposed to think?

 

In fact your original post didn't want OP builds to be discussed at all yet now you want community discussion?

 

To jog your memory:

 

"Why are people so obsessed with finding the most overpowered thing to steamroll the game with. I can't think of anything much more boring. How about finding a combo which is most fun and interesting to play and is strong without being broken?"

 

Your original post.

 

So lets now discuss this properly. Which builds do YOU think are OP?

 

Well, this is awkward.

Ack my apologies.

 

Teach me to post distracted.

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Barbarian: BloodThirst - tested it, you'll instantly recove after a kill, that's all, work EXACTLY like in poe1. Wrong description or bug? Not gamebreaking at all.

 

 

Monk: Swift Flurry + Rod Blast - can be gamebreaking, but only with crit chance 100 and realy tight enemy formation. Not gamebreaking at all.

 

 

Chanter: Drake/Dragon with unlimited Empower points: Haven't test this yet, wish someone can confirm this. - confirmed, obviously a bug.

But still, Drake has endless fireballs with spellcast 1.3 sec. Compared to other spellcasters quite overpowered IMO.

Yeah u are right about bloodthirst, it’s exactly the same as PoE 1, will remove it to the list.

 

So it's not actually giving you 10s of 0 recovery, but just one instant recovery? fml. I think I'll already have to revert some of my current build choices.

Edited by M4xw0lf
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@aweigh - Yes, since REMAKING THE MUSIC SCORE was something done in oh... not a single game in known memory in my 25+ years of playing video games. Great argument, bro. Sigh, look, we are not going to agree here, but please don't make non-sensical arguments and then accuse me of doing the same. Balance is important, I said as much, but it's not CRUCIAL that, in a game, with a billion different options, classes, talents, skills, builds, devs spend time and time and time on making sure that everything is just perfectly balanced according to your needs... in a single player game. If you think it's too good - don't use it - it really is that simple. Yes, if things are utterly broken, sure, they can and will get around it, but trying to make fun of me for saying that dev time is better spent on adding more content to the game than 'fixing' the balance between a billion different variables in a single player game - well, buddy, you know... I don't even know what to say to that, honestly, it's that dumb, imho.

 

Again, I must draw your attention to the original PoE - it had a billion iterations of patches, a lot of this sort of stuff was done for balancing and STILL casters were so far ahead of anything else that they had to massively nerf them in the second part, because people were still bitching.  That and ofc the fact that those not bitching about their OP-ness bitched about the per rest abilities, so once that was taken out, the balance hammer added annoying cast times, which rather effectively neutered a lot of the casters. And what's the story on release? A bunch of people complaining that melee classes are the only real way to go atm and that casters are too weak. Go figure.

You're wrong. Balancing the game properly is indicative of the game's overall quality and results in a wider variety of strategic and tactical choices for player permutations.

 

Once again you're using a straw man, this time saying people will bitch regardless what you do so why do anything. Previously you were saying why spend dev time on one thing instead of another thing. 

 

What nonsense straw man will you use next?

 

EDIT: I forgot to address your usage of the logical fallacy that is "just don't use it" twice!

 

God , I can't. It's like talking to a wall. A back-talking, offensive wall, that thinks it's very smart. How the **** is saying "why spend time on something only SOME people have a problem with AND can EASILY be circumvented if you want to" vs "Let the devs focus more on creating NEW CONTENT THAT EVERYONE CAN ENJOY than trying to endlessly balance a billion factors based on the feedback of a group of people who spend time trying to find OP things to complain about" the same?! Do you not see that this is the same logic as saying "Why spend your time on one thing (making the world a better place through science) instead of another (being a successful mass murderer)?"  Yes, they are both things... but they don't have the same inherent value to most people. They obviously do to you, and that's cool, but don't throw around big terms when you don't even know what they mean.

Edited by EbonKnight
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You jumped into a topic to belittle people who cared about the topic, in what world would that ever not result in defensiveness?

Acting righteous about responses you seem to have fished for is an interesting approach.

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It's a discussion forum man, I get it.  Everyone has the right to voice their concerns - his concern is a perceived lack of balance, mine is that all these threads derail more important dev time such as bug fixes and completely new content.  We can agree to disagree, but everyone has the right to chime in, no?

Edited by EbonKnight
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