Josh Sawyer's tweets and teasers, part IV

[kanisatha]

2 minutes ago, Wormerine said:

Source requested. 

Yeah BG3 will absolutely NOT be RTwP. It is guaranteed to be TB.

[injurai]

I must be remembering wrong... apologies...

I think I was recalling a comment that said they weren't going to re-use Divinity's combat model, and I somehow played telephone with myself... Obviously I'm a wishful thinker

Plz no lashings

[Wormerine]

43 minutes ago, injurai said:

Plz no lashings

:-) no worries. I just have been following BG3 closely and so far I haven’t seen any details, only speculation. 

[Boeroer]

6 hours ago, kanisatha said:

Yeah BG3 will absolutely NOT be RTwP. It is guaranteed to be TB.

Also source requested.

[kanisatha]

2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Also source requested.

Source: me

But there is this recent interview which to me is about as close as we can get of confirmation that BG3 will be TB:

https://www.gameinformer.com/interview/2019/11/07/a-knight-in-shining-armor-swen-vincke-talks-the-long-road-of-larian-studios

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by kanisatha

[Boeroer]

I read the interview, and by no (I mean really zilch) means one can deduct that Baldur's Gate 3 "is guaranteed to be TB [turn based]."
So, making that "absolutely not RTwP/guaranteed TB" statement is only a shot in the dark. So, so dark... and the mist... oh, the mist. And the blindfold, too! 

However, one interesting thing in the interview is this: "'Systemic' is the in-house word. If it’s not systemic, it doesn’t go in."

This is kind of the opposite of the Baldur's Gate mechanics. The older versions of D&D weren't very systemic. Actually they are quite terrible in that regard (if you want to read a very anti-systemic P&P ruleset you should buy the earlier version of the Dark Eye rulesets, ouf!). Still most people liked them (I guess). PoE was more systemic than the old IE games but less systemic than Deadfire - which made a huge step forward in that regard. Then D:OS I and II are more systemic than Deadfire.
I personally am a big fan of a thorough systemic approach - no woder if one considers my professional background as a software engineer. But that's not all that matters in a game (else I would prefer D:OS over PoE which is not the case).
I don't know how systemic D&D 5th edition is (never read it) but I wonder if a highly systemic approach might clash with the (formerly) bitty D&D ruleset(s) and the fond memories players might have.

A complaint one can often read here in the forums (about PoEI and II) is the systemic attribute system. MIG does always raise dmg and healing no matter if it's spell or sword, INT does always enlarge your AoE no matter spell or Carnage and so on. Also the fact that spellcasting follows the same rules as attacking with weapons and so on and so forth. They wish for special rules so their XY character feels special. Some players think that channeling a spell through the same attack resolution as a attack from a sword is "unrealistic" (really) or it does break their immersion. They want special cases and solutions for everything. That might be understandable - but that is the opposite of a systemic approach. Because all those special cases and rules will make it impossible to add new stuff in a way that it all works neatly together. It's a software developer's nightmare. You may be able to create more "cool" or "realistic" effects, but at the same time you are making a big mess that's harder to maintain, to fix and to test while it also makes developing additions like DLCs a lot harder as well as introducing new developers to the team. 

Vincke also said that they"'ve taken a lot of creative risks, more than people will expect." 

I wonder if those creative risks and a very systemic BG3 will clash hard with D&D grognards' nostalgia. And if they do clash, if that will even have any noticable impact on the sales numbers - since D:OS I and II are very different from D&D but have way more players than there are nostalgia-clinging D&D grognards.   

Edited November 11, 2019 by Boeroer

[Wormerine]

5 hours ago, Boeroer said:

However, one interesting thing in the interview is this: "'Systemic' is the in-house word. If it’s not systemic, it doesn’t go in."

This is kind of the opposite of the Baldur's Gate mechanics. The older versions of D&D weren't very systemic.

That is also how interaction with the world is. When I think of systemic games I think of Fallout1&2 and Arcanum. If doors are locked you can lockpick them. Or pickpocket/kill owner and take his key. Or use a disguise. Or talk your way through. Or blood the doors with an explosive. Deadfire moved slightly toward this direction, but it is very picky when you can use your skills. 
 

if I were a betting man I would bet that BG3 will be turn based. But we have no confirmation one way or another. 

[Wormerine]

Quote

This is how the first Divinity got born. We signed with another German publisher called CDV, which said the name of the game was Divine Divinity, but I thought they were joking. I thought it was a typo, but I didn’t want to change anything anymore. The marketing departments said this was because alliteration sells well and they had just made a game Sudden Strike. I said, “You’ve gotta be kidding.” But they were not kidding.

[Boeroer]

Ze Germans...

[kanisatha]

Boeroer, I disagree. I see this as yet another instance of Swen slowly trying to bring the hardcore IE fans around to accepting a TB BG3. As such I stand by my claim. We shall see.

[draego]

1 minute ago, kanisatha said:

Boeroer, I disagree. I see this as yet another instance of Swen slowly trying to bring the hardcore IE fans around to accepting a TB BG3. As such I stand by my claim. We shall see.

ye that is what i have thought to. That they have played coy with announcing the style of game because they know there will be grumbles when its not exactly like the OG BG rtwp. 

[Boeroer]

13 minutes ago, kanisatha said:

Boeroer, I disagree. I see this as yet another instance of Swen slowly trying to bring the hardcore IE fans around to accepting a TB BG3. As such I stand by my claim. We shall see.

Fair enough. But there is a difference between reasonable speculation and absolute statements and guarantees. And it's an important one. 

I also guess that BG3 will be turn based - but I don't claim to know nor do I guarantee it for any reason.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Boeroer

[kanisatha]

34 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Fair enough. But there is a difference between reasonable speculation and absolute statements and guarantees. And it's an important one. 

I also guess that BG3 will be turn based - but I don't claim to know nor do I guarantee it for any reason.

Oh come on. That was just figure-of-speech style exaggeration for effect. How would I, someone not associated with Larian, even be able to provide a true guarantee?

[Boeroer]

No idea. That's why I asked for a source.

[Boeroer]

New stuff on tumblr:

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/189033149681/why-did-you-and-the-team-decide-on-deadfire-for

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/189033278221/why-blame-the-relative-failure-of-poe2-on-already

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/189033409996/its-a-shame-deadfire-did-worse-the-poe-1-it-had

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/189033619441/in-an-imaginary-world-where-an-eccentric

 

[Uburian]

On 11/13/2019 at 10:53 AM, Boeroer said:

New stuff on tumblr:

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/189033149681/why-did-you-and-the-team-decide-on-deadfire-for

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/189033278221/why-blame-the-relative-failure-of-poe2-on-already

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/189033409996/its-a-shame-deadfire-did-worse-the-poe-1-it-had

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/189033619441/in-an-imaginary-world-where-an-eccentric

 

 

Well, now i really want to play a game set in Eora in which you create and maintain a shop of animancy powered bikes

A tactical game set in Eora (similar to Xcom, but with RtWP apart from TB) would also be amazing.

Thanks a lot for the links.

[Boeroer]

That would be called a "Hectical Game" then.

[draego]

 

[draego]

i see someone has some cute numbers lol 

 

 

[Mannock]

 

Man oh man. Josh feels so bitter lately. I almost don't dare bring this up, but since the devs rarely looks at their own forum anymore I guess it will fly under the radar. Josh has been very sour regarding the fact that the game sold poorly and the fact that he caught a lot of personal flak regarding the main storyline. So I guess one shouldn't be surprised about how he answers regarding this stuff, but I still feel he's acting a bit like a martyr. I just hope he gets past it.

[Boeroer]

I can only imagine the feeling of that punch in the gut: Divinity:OS sells well --> PoE sells well --> Divinity:OS II sells like hot cakes --> Josh expects the same for Deadfire --> Deadfire tanks (despite good critics). I mean that sure does hurt. 

It's like when I was young and doing websites for clients in my freetime and I would always include four designs: three that I really worked on and which i liked and a forth that was just trash cobbled together. And every time clients said: "Oh we like the forth one best!" Ouch...

[Mannock]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

I can only imagine the feeling of that punch in the gut: Divinity:OS sells well --> PoE sells well --> Divinity:OS II sells like hot cakes --> Josh expects the same for Deadfire --> Deadfire tanks (despite good critics). I mean that sure does hurt. 

It's like when I was young and doing websites for clients in my freetime and I would always include four designs: three that I really worked on and which i liked and a forth that was just trash cobbled together. And every time clients said: "Oh we like the forth one best!" Ouch...

Yeah, a gut punch describes it pretty well.
 

[kanisatha]

8 hours ago, Mannock said:

 

Man oh man. Josh feels so bitter lately. I almost don't dare bring this up, but since the devs rarely looks at their own forum anymore I guess it will fly under the radar. Josh has been very sour regarding the fact that the game sold poorly and the fact that he caught a lot of personal flak regarding the main storyline. So I guess one shouldn't be surprised about how he answers regarding this stuff, but I still feel he's acting a bit like a martyr. I just hope he gets past it.

Yeah I feel very sad for him because I have tremendous respect for him as a game designer and writer. But at the same time, I agree that if you are going to be in this business you need to develop a thick skin and be able to not take things personally. And most of all, be able to take that gut-punch, get back up on your feet, put the (perceived) failure behind you, and move on.

[wih]

19 minutes ago, kanisatha said:

Yeah I feel very sad for him because I have tremendous respect for him as a game designer and writer. But at the same time, I agree that if you are going to be in this business you need to develop a thick skin and be able to not take things personally. And most of all, be able to take that gut-punch, get back up on your feet, put the (perceived) failure behind you, and move on.

I'm sure he has developed a thick skin in his 20 years of game development, but some things just have too high penetration. Some recovery time is needed.

[Lord_Mord]

"And I would be interested in directing Pillars 3 if I can figure out how to make it something I would enjoy that there’s an audience for.  It may be that someone else would do a better job at that than me, though."

I don't think that's true. If that game would not conclude the watchers story, I wouldnt buy it and if someone else would make that game, I wouldn't buy it either.