After seeing all the high class abilities...

[Nemesis7884]

...what classes seem more / less appealing for multi classing?

...what classes seem to have great synergies?

 

I think barbarian and monk are looking pretty strong - as a standalone or in combination for a crit focused build

Paladin has lost some appeal unfortunatly through some nerves that seem to strong to me

[Ganrich]

I think every class looks good for Multiclassing. 

 

Skald/Devoted still looks good.  Devoted works with any melee though. 

Rogue/beckoner would easily get flanked on targets. 

Barbarians look silly good. 

I still like pallys but I want to see more first hand than to guess.  They are set up to never die.  Which makes them unique. 

Chanters have a subclass for every combo imaginable too.  My first MC, which will be my 3rd play through of the game, will be a Troubadour/Trickster I think.  Just because I think it will be a mobile interrupter with debuffs and CCs.  I plan to give him explosives to make up for the shortage on Guile a MC character gets, and the fact that Rogues have silly high costs on abilities.  My Chanter and my Monk will be my first playthroughs, and they will be single class.

 

I am more worried about which classes are good for single class, and which are not.  I think Rogue and Ranger have too little at higher levels to justify Single Class, and they will only be used if I MC them.  However, others might feel differently. 

[Rallox]

I think every class looks good for Multiclassing. 

 

Skald/Devoted still looks good.  Devoted works with any melee though. 

Rogue/beckoner would easily get flanked on targets. 

Barbarians look silly good. 

I still like pallys but I want to see more first hand than to guess.  They are set up to never die.  Which makes them unique. 

Chanters have a subclass for every combo imaginable too.  My first MC, which will be my 3rd play through of the game, will be a Troubadour/Trickster I think.  Just because I think it will be a mobile interrupter with debuffs and CCs.  I plan to give him explosives to make up for the shortage on Guile a MC character gets, and the fact that Rogues have silly high costs on abilities.  My Chanter and my Monk will be my first playthroughs, and they will be single class.

 

I am more worried about which classes are good for single class, and which are not.  I think Rogue and Ranger have too little at higher levels to justify Single Class, and they will only be used if I MC them.  However, others might feel differently. 

If I may ask,are you going shattered pillar or helwalker and why? thinking of going with monk also but cant decide lol

[Vastus]

The early abilities all seem good enough for strong multiclasses, the strength of the high level abilities seems to vary a bit. Ranger for example doesn't seem to get anything too interesting (Twinned Shot seems cool but costs 3 of your resource so it isn't that impressive I'd say). I was quite surprised by the Druid abilities though, a single class will have access to the Frenzy Wildstrike [Element] abilities as well as strong summons and revives. 

Wizards that do not intend to wade into melee will generally be better as a single class as well, there's some pretty damn strong high level spells. I'm slightly curious about Citzal's Armoury (if that was the name), I wonder if it will allow single class melee Wizards to stand up to multiclass melee Wizards. 

 

Overall there is some interesting stuff at the higher levels for most classes, I'm pretty happy with it.

[Tommy1984]

Where can you see high level abilities (or full skill trees)?

 

edit:

okay, found the video in another thread: see here

Edited May 5, 2018 by Tommy1984

[Max_zero]

Beckoner will be may starting point. It can contribute so much without having to take up a lot of actions to do it.

 

The question is what to pair with it. At the moment my front runner is a Druid, either Lifegiver or Fury. Either more heals and DoTs or pure offense with Storms for all.

[Tommy1984]

Hmm, they nerfed "Her Courage Thick as Steel" really hard (now only 10pt damage shield instead of 30pt). So now I'm sure I will play a Beckoner instead of a Troubadour. But I don't know yet if I really want to go single class. By going multi class I miss the dragon summon (or 2 dragons for beckonner ) and the upgrade for the summoned weapons (so multi beckoner gets only 6 instead of 8 summons from it). A multi also doesn't get the anti beast chant and some other stuff. I really have to rewatch the other classes to see how good these synergize with a dedicated summoner. I also need to think about if these are really neccessary on the main character or if these can be provided by the party instead.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Tommy1984

[cactot]

I'd for sure have at least one single class chanter in the party, the high level phrases and invocations are great. I want double healing and party lifesteal all the time asap.

 

I would probably take a multiclass chanter as well, as there are too many good phrases for a single chanter to keep up. Plus they have boatloads of good invocations even at low level.

 

All the melee look good in multiclass.

 

Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Barbarian all look like great single class options too.

 

Rogue will depend on whether you stay invisible after attacking with the 20s invis they get. If so, 20s of non-stop assassination definitely makes single class worthwhile. Otherwise because of the high guile cost of their abilities I would probably multi class them. Luckily they have great synergy with just about every other class.

 

Ranger looks like it would be best multiclass (Fighter, Rogue, Chanter, Cipher, Monk would make strong ranged DPS options), but going single class seems wasteful unless you really want to focus on the pet. Ranged DPS would be better optimized with multiclass builds. If driving flight works with 'the Long Pain' that could be absolutely nutso for ranged DPS.

 

Wizard, Druid, Cipher and Priest all seem solid as either single class or multi class.

[Max_zero]

Hmm, they nerfed "Her Courage Thick as Steel" really hard (now only 10pt damage shield instead of 30pt). So now I'm sure I will play a Beckoner instead of a Troubadour. But I don't know yet if I really want to go single class. By going multi class I miss the dragon summon (or 2 dragons for beckonner ) and the upgrade for the summoned weapons (so multi beckoner gets only 6 instead of 8 summons from it). A multi also doesn't get the anti beast chant and some other stuff. I really have to rewatch the other classes to see how good these synergize with a dedicated summoner. I also need to think about if these are really neccessary on the main character or if these can be provided by the party instead.

 

The reason I want to multi a Beckoner is because of 2 things:

 

1) Summons scale of character level not power level so outside of getting access to new summons pure Beckoner's summons are not any stronger then a multi's.

 

2) The later summons have a base duration of 25 seconds. So basically outside of summons what are you going to do all you will do is use phrases and auto attacks.

[Doxy]

Fighter/chanter seem to have perfect synergy between them.

Wizard also syn. well with alot of classes, melee 1st of all. Insta buffs ftw.

[Tommy1984]

 

Hmm, they nerfed "Her Courage Thick as Steel" really hard (now only 10pt damage shield instead of 30pt). So now I'm sure I will play a Beckoner instead of a Troubadour. But I don't know yet if I really want to go single class. By going multi class I miss the dragon summon (or 2 dragons for beckonner ) and the upgrade for the summoned weapons (so multi beckoner gets only 6 instead of 8 summons from it). A multi also doesn't get the anti beast chant and some other stuff. I really have to rewatch the other classes to see how good these synergize with a dedicated summoner. I also need to think about if these are really neccessary on the main character or if these can be provided by the party instead.

 

The reason I want to multi a Beckoner is because of 2 things:

 

1) Summons scale of character level not power level so outside of getting access to new summons pure Beckoner's summons are not any stronger then a multi's.

 

2) The later summons have a base duration of 25 seconds. So basically outside of summons what are you going to do all you will do is use phrases and auto attacks.

 

 

Thanks, I forgot about the duration. Summoning a dragon should need 8 phrases on a beckoner - thats 8x6 = 48 seconds chanting ... a long time. As beckoner your base duration is halved .. so its more like 12 seconds. Because the dragon is on the 9th power level you do not get much extra duration from power levels. I think even with high INT this should not be really long.

 

I think the dragon summon works better on a single class troubadour, because he only needs 9x3 = 27 seconds. With some INT he can have his dragon out constantly.

 

But I like the new chants - on 6th power level you get the leech chant, where your guys leech 12% of damage done as healing and on 7th power level is a chant that increases healing by +100%. I think these work good with a paladin with Exalted Endurance. To bad that paladins no longer have the talent "Coordinated Attacks" ... it would qualify them as No 1 multi class choice for me. Now I need the check all classes if paladin is still the best choice for me or if another class feels better. For example a Livegiver druid should also synergize really good with the new +100% healing chant.

 

edit:

I overlooked that there is a chant that summons skeletons ... that makes it interessting to compare beckoner and troubadour again

 

1) beckoner: per 12 seconds (2 phrases) = 2 skeletons (from chant) and 6 minor skeletons (from invocation) = 8 skeletons

2) troubadour: per 12 seconds (4 phrases) = 4 skeletons (from chant) and 3 skeletons (from invocation) = 7 skeletons

 

That brings them closer together ... to bad the duration for the skeletons from the chant is not explained. It would also be interesting to know if a beckoner can get 2 skeletons from the chant.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Tommy1984

[TheMetaphysician]

I didn't realize that the base duration of summons was halved for beckoners. Are we sure it is possible to keep summons up at all times? Say, the Ogres: is it possible to keep them up at all times as a Beckoner?

 

They'll cost three phrases: 3x6=18 seconds for phrase accumulation, 6 second cast time = 24 seconds total. If base duration is 12.5, how can you get that to 24? Same for other summons.

 

It would be ironic if Troubadour was a better summoner than Beckoner.

[Tommy1984]

I didn't realize that the base duration of summons was halved for beckoners. Are we sure it is possible to keep summons up at all times? Say, the Ogres: is it possible to keep them up at all times as a Beckoner?

 

They'll cost three phrases: 3x6=18 seconds for phrase accumulation, 6 second cast time = 24 seconds total. If base duration is 12.5, how can you get that to 24? Same for other summons.

 

It would be ironic if Troubadour was a better summoner than Beckoner.

 

Sorry, I confused this. On a Beckoner the summons have -50% health, and around -33% duration (skeletons: 12 seconds >> 8 seconds, ogres: 25 seconds >> 18 seconds).

 

Duration is increased by INT (+5% per point over 10) and Power Level (+5% per level over unlock level).

 

For example:

- Ogres are Power level 4

- multi can get to Power level 7 = 15% duration bonus

- with 20 INT at max level you get: 18 x 1.15 (PL) x 1.5 (INT) = 31 seconds

 

Also casting time can be reduced by:

- faster casting passive: -10%

- faster summon casting passive: -15%

- dexterity: -3% per point above 10

Edited May 5, 2018 by Tommy1984

[baldurs_gate_2]

I didn't realize that the base duration of summons was halved for beckoners. Are we sure it is possible to keep summons up at all times? Say, the Ogres: is it possible to keep them up at all times as a Beckoner?

 

They'll cost three phrases: 3x6=18 seconds for phrase accumulation, 6 second cast time = 24 seconds total. If base duration is 12.5, how can you get that to 24? Same for other summons.

 

It would be ironic if Troubadour was a better summoner than Beckoner.

Don't you get -1 phrase cost from beckoner?

[Tommy1984]

 

I didn't realize that the base duration of summons was halved for beckoners. Are we sure it is possible to keep summons up at all times? Say, the Ogres: is it possible to keep them up at all times as a Beckoner?

 

They'll cost three phrases: 3x6=18 seconds for phrase accumulation, 6 second cast time = 24 seconds total. If base duration is 12.5, how can you get that to 24? Same for other summons.

 

It would be ironic if Troubadour was a better summoner than Beckoner.

Don't you get -1 phrase cost from beckoner?

 

 

it is already calculated in ... the current progression in the beta is:

 

PL 1 + 2 = 3 Phrases (2 on Beckoner, 4 on Troubadour) = Skeletons / Ghost / Wurms

 

PL 3 + 4 = 4 Phrases (3 on Beckoner, 5 on Troubadour) = Wisp / Ogres

 

PL 5 = 5 Phrases (4 on Beckoner, 6 on Troubadour) = Drake

 

 

 

based on this the higher power levels should look like this:

 

PL 6 = 5 Phrases (4 on Beckoner, 6 on Troubadour)

 

PL 7 + 8 = 6 Phrases (5 on Beckoner, 7 on Troubadour) = Ancient Weapons

 

PL 9 = 7 Phrases (6 on Beckoner, 8 on Troubadour) = Dragon

 

 

so I think I need to correct my assumption for the dragon:

- Beckoner: 6x6 = 36 seconds for summoning a dragon (PL9), summon base duration = 18 seconds

- Troubadour: 8x3 = 24 seconds for summoning a dragon (PL9), summon base duration = 25 seconds

 

So a Troubadour can keep up his dragon relatively easy (just a bit INT to offset the casting time). But for a Beckoner this should be really difficult.

[baldurs_gate_2]

So with a troubador, one phrase only lasts 3 seconds, but it lingers longer?

[Tommy1984]

So with a troubador, one phrase only lasts 3 seconds, but it lingers longer?

 

A Troubadour has the modal "Brisk Recitation".

 

If "Brisk Recitation" is deactivated the Troubadour gets +50% linger duration, but chanting time is still 6 seconds ... this is useful for stacking chants, for example with 20 INT you get +100% linger time, so your chants now have 6 seconds linger (base linger duration = 3 seconds), which means you can have 2 overlapping chants on all the time.

 

If "Brisk Recitation" is activated the Troubadour gets -50% chanting duration, but linger is reduced to zero ... this means you can get phrases with double speed, but only one chant can be active, because without linger they can not overlap. This is helpful for getting the needed phrases for you summons. In the early power levels the Troubadour and the Beckoner are on the same level (skeletons: 4x3 seconds for Troubadour = 2x6 seconds for Beckoner), on higher power levels your faster phrase accumulation gives you an advantage for summoning invocations (see dragon example above).

[Maxzero]

 

 

I didn't realize that the base duration of summons was halved for beckoners. Are we sure it is possible to keep summons up at all times? Say, the Ogres: is it possible to keep them up at all times as a Beckoner?

 

They'll cost three phrases: 3x6=18 seconds for phrase accumulation, 6 second cast time = 24 seconds total. If base duration is 12.5, how can you get that to 24? Same for other summons.

 

It would be ironic if Troubadour was a better summoner than Beckoner.

Don't you get -1 phrase cost from beckoner?

 

 

it is already calculated in ... the current progression in the beta is:

 

PL 1 + 2 = 3 Phrases (2 on Beckoner, 4 on Troubadour) = Skeletons / Ghost / Wurms

 

PL 3 + 4 = 4 Phrases (3 on Beckoner, 5 on Troubadour) = Wisp / Ogres

 

PL 5 = 5 Phrases (4 on Beckoner, 6 on Troubadour) = Drake

 

 

 

based on this the higher power levels should look like this:

 

PL 6 = 5 Phrases (4 on Beckoner, 6 on Troubadour)

 

PL 7 + 8 = 6 Phrases (5 on Beckoner, 7 on Troubadour) = Ancient Weapons

 

PL 9 = 7 Phrases (6 on Beckoner, 8 on Troubadour) = Dragon

 

 

so I think I need to correct my assumption for the dragon:

- Beckoner: 6x6 = 36 seconds for summoning a dragon (PL9), summon base duration = 18 seconds

- Troubadour: 8x3 = 24 seconds for summoning a dragon (PL9), summon base duration = 25 seconds

 

So a Troubadour can keep up his dragon relatively easy (just a bit INT to offset the casting time). But for a Beckoner this should be really difficult.

 

 

It only seems to be be a big advantage at PL 7 and higher. So for single classing summoning it looks like Troubadour is the go.

 

My endgame goal for multi class Beckoner will be the upgraded Ogres (4 x cleaving pets = yikes) at PL 6. 24 phrase duration (23 at PL 7) with 18 summon duration (27 with 20 int which I have and plan to get more).

 

Since phrases seem to increase every second PL if you want to min max a little bit you should target even PL summons (Wyrms, Ogre). Stronger without the increased phrase cost.

 

I wonder does the upgrade to ablities increase their PL? In my example I assume they did but since I don't have BETA I can't test. So would upgraded Wyrms count as PL 2 or 3?

Edited May 6, 2018 by Maxzero

[Tommy1984]

I wonder does the upgrade to ablities increase their PL? In my example I assume they did but since I don't have BETA I can't test. So would upgraded Wyrms count as PL 2 or 3?

Thats difficult to judge ... here the data from the beta (tested with no subclass chanter):

 

Skeleton:

- base skill: PL1, 3 phrases = PL1, duration = PL1

- upgrade: PL3, 3 phrases = PL1, duration = PL1

 

Ghost

- base skill: PL1, 3 phrases = PL1, duration = PL1

- upgrade: PL4, doesn't work in the beta

 

Wurms

- base skill: PL2, 3 phrases = PL2, duration = PL2

- upgrade: PL4, 4 phrases = PL4, duration = PL2

 

Wisp

- base skill: PL3, 4 phrases = PL3, duration = PL3

- upgrade: PL5, 4 phrases = PL3, duration = PL3

 

The upgrade for Ghosts does not work so they are out, also Ogres and Drakes because there is no upgrade for them in the beta.

 

Upgraded Skeletons and Wisps are still treated as if they are on the power level of the base skill, so they need the same amount of phrases and they get a duration bonus based on the power level.

 

Upgraded Wurms are different. After upgrading you need 4 phrases instead of 3 phrases, so they are treated as if the power level of the upgrade matters. But for the duration bonus from power level they are treated as if the base skill power level matters.

[Maxzero]

 

I wonder does the upgrade to ablities increase their PL? In my example I assume they did but since I don't have BETA I can't test. So would upgraded Wyrms count as PL 2 or 3?

Thats difficult to judge ... here the data from the beta (tested with no subclass chanter):

 

Skeleton:

- base skill: PL1, 3 phrases = PL1, duration = PL1

- upgrade: PL3, 3 phrases = PL1, duration = PL1

 

Ghost

- base skill: PL1, 3 phrases = PL1, duration = PL1

- upgrade: PL4, doesn't work in the beta

 

Wurms

- base skill: PL2, 3 phrases = PL2, duration = PL2

- upgrade: PL4, 4 phrases = PL4, duration = PL2

 

Wisp

- base skill: PL3, 4 phrases = PL3, duration = PL3

- upgrade: PL5, 4 phrases = PL3, duration = PL3

 

The upgrade for Ghosts does not work so they are out, also Ogres and Drakes because there is no upgrade for them in the beta.

 

Upgraded Skeletons and Wisps are still treated as if they are on the power level of the base skill, so they need the same amount of phrases and they get a duration bonus based on the power level.

 

Upgraded Wurms are different. After upgrading you need 4 phrases instead of 3 phrases, so they are treated as if the power level of the upgrade matters. But for the duration bonus from power level they are treated as if the base skill power level matters.

 

 

Hmm that is interesting. A split decision wasn't expecting that.

 

So in some cases it does 'uplevel' them (Wyrms) and some cases it does not (Skeletons).

 

It's rather inconsistant, how very Obsidian.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Maxzero

[Tommy1984]

I now checked the full skilltrees for all classes and will stick with paladin for a multiclass Beckoner.

In the last weeks I did a couple of runs in the beta (solo and with party) and one of the bad things that can happen to a summoner is getting interrupted, because the casting times for summons can be really long and you lose your used phrases if you get interrupted. If you get Stunned (Might Affliction) or Paralyzed (Dexterity affliction) it is even worse, because you stop chanting while you have these afflictions.

So having Faith And Conviction + Deep Faith (+20 to all defenses in the beta ... don't know how this works in the full game) and Divine Purpose (+20 to all defenses vs. Resolve/Might/Dexterity afflictions) from paladin should help with that.

Also Inspired Defenses (+2 AR after being hit), Stoic Steel (+1 AR per 6 seconds standing still) and Exalted Endurance (+1 AR + Healing aura) should help tanking. And with the aura, Flames of Devotion with Shared Flames upgrade, Sworn Enemy and all the paladin/chanter party buffs you can help your army to overwhelm the enemy.

[baldurs_gate_2]

I now checked the full skilltrees for all classes and will stick with paladin for a multiclass Beckoner.

 

In the last weeks I did a couple of runs in the beta (solo and with party) and one of the bad things that can happen to a summoner is getting interrupted, because the casting times for summons can be really long and you lose your used phrases if you get interrupted. If you get Stunned (Might Affliction) or Paralyzed (Dexterity affliction) it is even worse, because you stop chanting while you have these afflictions.

 

So having Faith And Conviction + Deep Faith (+20 to all defenses in the beta ... don't know how this works in the full game) and Divine Purpose (+20 to all defenses vs. Resolve/Might/Dexterity afflictions) from paladin should help with that.

 

Also Inspired Defenses (+2 AR after being hit), Stoic Steel (+1 AR per 6 seconds standing still) and Exalted Endurance (+1 AR + Healing aura) should help tanking. And with the aura, Flames of Devotion with Shared Flames upgrade, Sworn Enemy and all the paladin/chanter party buffs you can help your army to overwhelm the enemy.

Why Beckoner and not Trub.? And as Paladin Goldpact?

[Tommy1984]

Why Beckoner and not Trub.? And as Paladin Goldpact?

 

As a multi class I will use the lower tier summons more - Skeletons, Wurms, Ogres, etc. Having 6 Skeletons (instead of 3) or 4 Ogres (instead of 2) feels just more powerful ... remember: the summons only have reduced health and duration on a Beckoner but hit as hard as their larger base form.

 

I haven't decided yet, which Paladin sub class I will choose. The armor rating from Goldpact Knight is useful, but only benefits my character, who should already be very tanky. The healing from Kind Wayfarer for Flames of Devotion is nice, but for full benefit it would be better to dual wield instead of using a shield. Shieldbearer gives +1 engagement, but the upgrade for Lay on Hands seems to be too situational. Bleakwalker and Darcozzi don't synergize very well. At the moment I think I will go with Kind Wayfarer.

 

Because Pallegina has low Might, I will put Exalted Endurance and Ancient Memory on the main character (with high Might). Pallegina (also as Herald) then provides Exalted Focus and the new chant that increases healing by 100%. Haven't decided on the other party members yet.

[baldurs_gate_2]

 

Why Beckoner and not Trub.? And as Paladin Goldpact?

 

As a multi class I will use the lower tier summons more - Skeletons, Wurms, Ogres, etc. Having 6 Skeletons (instead of 3) or 4 Ogres (instead of 2) feels just more powerful ... remember: the summons only have reduced health and duration on a Beckoner but hit as hard as their larger base form.

 

I haven't decided yet, which Paladin sub class I will choose. The armor rating from Goldpact Knight is useful, but only benefits my character, who should already be very tanky. The healing from Kind Wayfarer for Flames of Devotion is nice, but for full benefit it would be better to dual wield instead of using a shield. Shieldbearer gives +1 engagement, but the upgrade for Lay on Hands seems to be too situational. Bleakwalker and Darcozzi don't synergize very well. At the moment I think I will go with Kind Wayfarer.

 

Because Pallegina has low Might, I will put Exalted Endurance and Ancient Memory on the main character (with high Might). Pallegina (also as Herald) then provides Exalted Focus and the new chant that increases healing by 100%. Haven't decided on the other party members yet.

 

Well, when you play in a party, it's surely not so important. I thought you want play solo with this multiclass.

[Yosharian]

I think you shouldn't underestimate the damage output increase from doubling your pet count. Beckoner will do just fine.