will my *insert class* suck?

[Gromnir]

so, contrary to beta opinion, vanilla rogues are strong.  the class is an interrupting machine, has more survivability than we assumed, and once they attain devastating blow, they chunk opposition such that am wondering how much use we actual got from deep wounds and arterial strike. 

 

am thinking o' trying a couple more "lame" classes to see how they genuine perform as am suspecting many lame classes has not actual been played by those criticizing. for the rogue we saw complaints such as the following:

 

"What major differences do you see that will make the rogue better then the first game ? You didn’t like them in the first game at all." 

 

as such am suspecting many folks is looking at numbers and making assumptions 'bout classes without having actual played 'em to any degree.  Gromnir actual assumed the rogue would be kinda weak 'fore we played it through a beta 4 run.

 

so, as with rogue, we will play 1-2 additional chump classes at vet difficulty and with a party o' companion analogs (e.g. a hearth orlan witch equivalent to serafen.) however, am not gonna start the beta run at level 9 and enable scaling as such appears to be a busted feature. will start at level 6 and progress so we reach level 8 near end o' the beta content.  no ship boarding action.  will skip captain angfor(sp?) and admitting we will cheese the gouda outta the titan+blights battle.  no min-max-- all attributes will be 'tween 9 and 15. am not gonna use potions simple 'cause a number o' potions,  particular combined with a high alchemy skill, is wacky op at the moment. am not gonna use console save to start off with enough money to outfit our party with fine armour and arms from the available merchant.  

 

am intending to play a white that wends mystic, hearth orlan, vanilla cipher, but am not wedded to any class or race or background.  am willing to consider specific builds and party compositions, but 'course Gromnir is final word on such stuff.

 

regardless, am understanding how for folks who do not have beta access, it can be confusing, frustrating and disappointing to be reading 'bout deadfire classes.  wanna play a _______, but consensus from backers is universal suckage.  *shrug* beta consensus is not always giving a full picture o' game reality. 

 

as an aside, we would recommend not getting too torqued 'bout damage totals, particular from classes other than pure dps.  our parties including a knock-off aloth has seen the wizard casting debuffs and incidental damage spells more than he has been casting damage producing spells.  for example, pull o' eora is incredibly powerful, particularly when centered on a chill fog.  the chill fog does only a small 'mount o' damage, but it imparts the blindness affliction.  

 

so, any suggestions?  

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

[daven]

I suggest to drink some Milwaukee's best.

 

Edit: Yeah... uhh I really don't care about DPSSSSSSSSSZZZZZZZORRZZZ! or whatever. I only really play these games now for the role playing element anyway.

 

I really don't get this obsession with damage and balance and what have you, we're not playing WoW are we?!

Edited April 11, 2018 by daven

[Juodas Varnas]

*Shrug* I couldn't care less whether or not my character classes will suck. I don't pick them for their effectiveness anyway. 

[Boeroer]

Play a Black Jacket. Everybody says it's so bad. I don't know...

 

Once you get Unbending it doesn't matter at all that you don't have Constant Recovery (Unbending is insanely strong with good MIG and INT).

 

You can of course do a quick-switch build with guns (I know that is good for burst damage because I tested it the other day) but I would prefer a melee build that focuses on the initial idea: to always pick the best weapon set for the current enemy.

 

By the way: unlike PoE Quick Switch doesn't reduce the actual recovery after melee/bow attacks but only the extra "malus" recovery from switching. So no 0 melee recovery by switching in Deadfire.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Boeroer

[rjshae]

Yes. Yes it will suck. Greasy succulent pigs. 

 

What's with all the click-bait thread titles lately?

[Enoch]

Whichever Specialist Wizard looks lousiest (IDK, Enchanter, maybe?), single-classed.

[Heijoushin]

Apart from the Black Jacket and Specialist Wizard mentioned above...

 

Beguiler (Can a cypher really make a living from deception based spells?)

Nalpazca (Is continually guzzling drugs an effective way to play? Or is it just tiresome?)

Trickster (I guess you've already done rogue, but... I dunno, trickster sounds so cool in concept, but his abilities seem very "meh.")

Priest (Maybe it's just me, but I wasn't very impressed with their spellbook this time. All those + 5 to ability X. Does that stuff actually work?)

[Yosharian]

> we will play 1-2 additional chump classes at vet difficulty

 

Otherwise known as 'companions'

[Gromnir]

Apart from the Black Jacket and Specialist Wizard mentioned above...

 

Beguiler (Can a cypher really make a living from deception based spells?)

Nalpazca (Is continually guzzling drugs an effective way to play? Or is it just tiresome?)

Trickster (I guess you've already done rogue, but... I dunno, trickster sounds so cool in concept, but his abilities seem very "meh.")

Priest (Maybe it's just me, but I wasn't very impressed with their spellbook this time. All those + 5 to ability X. Does that stuff actually work?)

 

priest stuff works, but the problem is a priest, w/o multiclassing, is a force multiplier whose contributions is most noticeable when one plays a party w/o a priest.  sure, you can play with a druid and a paladin and get all the heals you need.  with a chanter and paladin you will get powerful buffs and debuffs targeting party and individuals respective.  however, the priest is the most versatile affliction killer and buffer in the game as well as providing exceptional heals.  best way to show priest impact is to not play a priest after having played with a priest.  is no question one is able to make highly potent deadfire parties w/o a priest, but you will notice the absence.

 

nalpazca is already targeted for changes by obsidian, so am not knowing if is worth doing... plus we got so few drugs available in the beta and nalpazca is all 'bout drugs.  

 

as for the blackjacket criticisms... we don't get it.  for a tank fighter, constant recovery, particular at lower levels, would be a literal lifesaver.  anything other than a tank?  can't imagine constant recovery will be missed much given other survivability options, particularly as a single class gets more free talents and will almost necessarily need take survivability talents as one will be running outta dps boosting options given the surfeit o' talent points available.  

 

am willing to try the beguiler and/or a specialist wizard.  obvious not a nature godlike evoker, eh?  can take a stab at an orlan beguiler and a human enchanter, though am suspecting enchanter will be requiring a bit o' creativity and synergies with other party members to be useful.  as we already got a party in mind for a cipher, will probable go with a beguiler firstest.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Boeroer]

I did a Beguiler and I think it's good. When you cast low level deception AoE powers like Eyestrike on afflicted enemies you actually get more focus back than you spend (Blind is such a powerful debuff). I had Draining Whip - so maybe that helps here as well.

I found it to be a good CC spammer. Damage is also good enough, especially if you have another party member who can deliver AoE afflctions as well (rogue+blast, wizard, druid). Then you get full focus from soul whip and some from deception powers.

 

Nalpasca is kind of OP if you combine him with high Alchemy. Drugs last for over 600 secs and even the lousiest ones let him generate wounds on the fly. I could use Blade Turning without pause with a Nalpasca with Lesser Wounds and decent INT, making him invulnerable in melee.

 

I don't know if there's a significantly bad class atm. They all seem to be balanced pretty ok at the moment. Of course some multiclass combos are very powerful and others are kind of a waste, but nothing seems totally lackluster when you look at single classes.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Boeroer

[CENIC]

I'm planning to roll a Mindstalker (no subclasses) who is a Drifter from Aedyr and uses a rapier and a pistol.

 

MIG 15

CON 10

DEX 15

PER 18

INT 10

RES 10

 

Then I'll take Dirty Fighting and Riposte from Rogue, and spells that cause Afflictions which proc Sneak Attack from Cipher.

 

Do I suck? What can I do better?

Edited April 12, 2018 by CENIC

[Boeroer]

Riposte sucks hard at the moment. He rest seems viable.

[Madscientist]

How powerful is a ranger, especially when multi classed?

Most talents make the pet more powerful, plus some talents for ranged weapons.

 

So class X + ranger = a weaker class X with a pet.

 

RP wise I could imagine a ranger/beckoner as a coward who hides behind a wall of creatures while shooting ranged weapons.

[Boeroer]

Ranger has the potential for very high accuracy (Marksman + Accurate Woundig Shot + Stalker's Link + Marked Prey). Also Wounding Shot is a Full Attack now which is great for any DW setup.

 

Chanters/Ranger can heal/protect his pet passively while giving him a lash (Mith Fyr) or use Mith Fyr/Sure Handed Ila to get a lash for himself and speed up ranged weapons. And of course summons. The synergy is there.

 

Paladin with Zealous Focus for ACC or Exhalted Endurance for continuous healing, Shared Flames (give pet a lash) and Brand Enemy (for triggering Predator's Sense) is also nice. In addition you can get a ton of high ACC full attacks: FoD (+20 ACC) and Accurate Woundig Shot (+20 ACC).

 

Both combos are good.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Boeroer

[The Crimson]

what about a Ghost Heart/Enchanter?

ghost heart doesn't get mad sniping like the Sharpshooter nor the Stalker tankyness so i wanted to bolster his capabilities with instant buffs

would i be better single-classing him? maybe changing the wiz subclass? changing second class altogether? (altho all classes are 'taken' in my future party except monk, barb, wiz and druid

[Gromnir]

am close to finished with a beguiler run but am heading out for the eve and won't finish 'til tomorrow.

 

party composition: nature godlike paladin tank, moon godlike druid with bear form, coastal aumaua ranger with wolf, wood elf wizard.

 

quick observations:

 

--beguiler specific penalties and benefits were a non-factor. maintaining focus were never a challenge regardless o' powers used and enemies targeted (qualification o' first observation: particularly due to druid tanglefoot, wizard chill fog and cipher phantom foes, rare were a soul whip affected foe anything other than subject to sneak attack.)

--beta 4 ciphers may have skewed a bit too much in favor o' a more forgiving focus generating scheme as there were almost no need for us to manage focus. am thinking the cipher woulda' been more fun with less generous focus building.  whereas other classes we played need manage guile or zeal or whatnot, focus were so plentiful as to largely negate any impact 'pon gameplay.

-- started out with a twin pistols and twin clubs weapon loadout with two weapon fighting to enhance.  however, the weapon we got most use from were the hunting bow. woulda' benefited more from two handed route.

--have used whisper of treason in the past to great effect, but didn't much bother.  the three powers we used most were phantom foes, secret horor and soul shock, in reverse order.  silent scream were a great interrupter o' groups, but we didn't face many beta foes who were needing raw damage to hurt so were typical more efficient to utilize soul shocks. "frightened" for secret horrors is a bit quirky insofar as what constitutes a hostile action, but is highly efficacious regardless. 

--after having played a rogue most recent, we kinda missed the interrupts from our main pc.

 

will provide more feedback tomorrow, but weak is not an appropriate descriptor for a beguiler.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[CENIC]

I tried Rogue/Beguiler since I wasn't intending to use the Cipher's "Shred" spells much anyway.

 

I was using hirelings as analogous to my preferred Deadfire companions as possible (Fighter, Paladin, Priest, Wizard) so unfortunately I didn't get the Sneak Attack bonus unless I opened the fight with Phantom Foes or positioned my characters to flank an enemy.

 

I was having trouble with Eyestrike (the Blind effect never triggered) so that was a bit annoying as well.

 

Having the longer range for the "Deception" spells that help me qualify for Sneak Attack (Phantom Foes, Mental Binding) was helpful since my character is squishy.

 

I was worried about having enough Focus so I took Draining Whip, but after reading Boeror and Gromnir's posts I'm thinking it might be better to take the extra damage from Biting Whip.

 

I really want to keep my rapier and pistol combo, but I'm not sure if I should dual-wield them or put them in separate weapon sets. It's kind of annoying trying to get my character to switch from ranged to melee when dual-wielding, but the Two Weapon passive is so good compared to the others!

[Gromnir]

ok, so we were a bit more exhaustive in completing the beta with the beguiler than the rogue-- had a few more combat encounters such as angfor and the spirits and the extra blights on the poko map.  relative damage totals is thus a bit inflated for the cipher.

 

 

 

looking back at our impressions from yesterday, there is little to add.  will once again stress how focus management, save for when fighting the spirits on angfor's isle, were a non issues.  as a ranged cipher we couldn't help but feel as if we were kinda cheating with the hunting bow as we were receiving consistent excellent damage from a simple fine weapon... and we were using draining whip 'stead o' biting. chose mechanics for our cipher and traps count as a ranged weapon-- go figure.  with the pirate eyepatch we were getting an additional accuracy boost for traps in addition to paladin accuracy bonus and mechanics skill bonus.  our cipher traps were hitting hard, critting frequent, and adding injuries + afflictions.  

 

am thinking we were doing the ranger wrong as we expected better better damage numbers from her.  sure, a different weapon woulda' been a better choice, but maia is wielding a arquebus in the concept art, so we were trying to stay faithful to deadfire characters.  we did try other weapons and had only slight better luck.  might need try a ranger run within the next week or so. concussive shot for the ranger were a nice pickup as we were kinda missing our rogue interrupts.

 

there is party dynamics which we suspect would be less beneficial for a beguiler.  as we noted yesterday, the druid and mage were making focus generation a bit easier with all the debuffs available.  

 

regardless, beguilers is not weak or suck.  will answer any questions 'bout our beguiler run if folks think o' something we didn't address but should have.  

 

as an aside, am also half through a enchanter run.

 

...

 

initial primary impression regarding the enchanter is the benefit for specialization is largely wasted, and the cost for specialization is indeed steep.  however, am kinda glad we played as an enchanter 'cause has shown us how we have been underutilizing our deadfire wizards.  will go into more detail later, but am further convinced grimoires is kinda excessive given the talent limits other classes face, and all those enchantments do indeed make a wizard far more formidable during combat encounters. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps we never bothered to empower a beguiler talent during our beta run.  

Edited April 15, 2018 by Gromnir