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Politics Thread: Edge of Seventeen

Blarghagh

By Blarghagh
in Way Off-Topic

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Malcador

Malcador

Posted
Posted

And I thought he was all about keeping plans super secret.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

Guard Dog

Guard Dog

Posted
Posted

Do you know what the most awful thing about the Syrian civil war is? There is no clear answer to this question: Which scenario is worse:

  1. It goes on forever
  2. One faction now fighting actually wins

When that question has no obvious answer it's not something we should be involved in.

 

 

Of course I don't think we should be involved in any military actions abroad unless Congress actually declares war. But that's just me. And the Constitution.

"While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before"

Thomas Sowell

Chilloutman

Chilloutman

Posted
Posted

Root of this problem is west naivity. I think there was big realisation after Egypt 'Arab Spring' revolution. It was most succsessfull revolt on all of them - and then they democratically voted for Muslim Brotherhood - go figure

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

Zoraptor

Zoraptor

Posted
Posted

Tunisia was the first and most successful arab spring revolution, and the only one which stuck. They also have a secular (well, secularish) elected government now.

  • Like 1
Drowsy Emperor

Drowsy Emperor

Posted
Posted (edited)

Syria didn't have a spontaneous revolution (insofar as there is such a thing). It was fairly clear that the opposition was supported and encouraged from abroad, from day 1. 

 

That led to a chain of events that made what was supposed to be a quick regime change operation, infinitely more complex. ISIS, fragmentation of the opposition, Russian intervention, Iran's assistance to Assad, de-facto occupation of parts of the country by the US and its proxies, Turkey and its proxies, Israeli military support for the south-west rebels etc.

 

Most can neither be pushed out and destroyed (except ISIS) nor 'win' on their own. So this is why we are where we are.

 

Proving, for those that care for such things, that attempting to overthrow 'tyranny' via revolution that clearly doesn't have popular support, (the kind that some anti-colonial movements had in their heyday) is the surest way to inflict untold long term misery on a population as everything grinds down into a pointless forever war. 

Edited by Drowsy Emperor
  • Like 1

И погибе Српски кнез Лазаре,
И његова сва изгибе војска, 
Седамдесет и седам иљада;
Све је свето и честито било
И миломе Богу приступачно.

 

Chilloutman

Chilloutman

Posted
Posted (edited)

I am not sure if there was many revolutions without 'outside' help.

 

nah, its just clear that you need to have educated population for democracy to work - otherwise they will democratically vote for another tyrant

Edited by Chilloutman

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

Guard Dog

Guard Dog

Posted
Posted

With the possible exception of Tunisia, revolutions these days seem to be about replacing one kind of tyranny with another. The only difference being the ethnicity/religion/philosophy of the next group of people to be mass murdered.

"While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before"

Thomas Sowell

Katphood

Katphood

Posted
Posted

I really don't understand why the world allowed this to happen:

 

 

Was it REALLY that bad before the war?!

 

I think not. :(

There used to be a signature here, a really cool one...and now it's gone.  

Bartimaeus

Bartimaeus

Posted
Posted (edited)

Speaker of the House Paul Ryan calling it quits, will not seek re-election. Adds on to an already disastrous wave of retirements for the Republicans.

 

Retirement tracker: https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/10/politics/house-retirement-tracker/index.html

Edited by Bartimaeus
Quote

How I have existed fills me with horror. For I have failed in everything - spelling, arithmetic, riding, tennis, golf; dancing, singing, acting; wife, mistress, whore, friend. Even cooking. And I do not excuse myself with the usual escape of 'not trying'. I tried with all my heart.

In my dreams, I am not crippled. In my dreams, I dance.

Katphood

Katphood

Posted
Posted

How would "the world" have stopped a civil war?

 

By not interfering, be it U.S, Iran, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Turkey...

  • Like 2

There used to be a signature here, a really cool one...and now it's gone.  

Bartimaeus

Bartimaeus

Posted
Posted

nope, it's her and the deep state's fault that this is happening to begin with

Quote

How I have existed fills me with horror. For I have failed in everything - spelling, arithmetic, riding, tennis, golf; dancing, singing, acting; wife, mistress, whore, friend. Even cooking. And I do not excuse myself with the usual escape of 'not trying'. I tried with all my heart.

In my dreams, I am not crippled. In my dreams, I dance.

pmp10

pmp10

Posted
Posted

How would "the world" have stopped a civil war?

By intervening openly and forcefully.

Obviously it would be a political suicide for some but it could have been done when the war was just beginning.

injurai

injurai

Posted
Posted

Nobody wanted Iraq 2.0, it was politically and economically infeasible. Plus Russia entangles things as they help to prop up the single-party domination of Syria.

Guard Dog

Guard Dog

Posted
Posted

I'm with Kapthood. Syria, like so many other similar conflicts is devolving into a proxy war between outside actors. Eventually one site will win and, as I said earlier, the mass killing will continue. Maybe just with different victims. Where Kapthood is wrong is it didn't start with intervention. That has just prolonged it. It starts when two or more differing groups of people can'r live under the same sun with someone who is different from them in some way. Or has something the other wants. If people are determined to kill each other there isn't much you can do but get out of the way.

 

I'm hearing George Washington warning us to avoid foreign entanglements in the back of my head. 

"While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before"

Thomas Sowell

pmp10

pmp10

Posted
Posted

 

By intervening openly and forcefully.

Obviously it would be a political suicide for some but it could have been done when the war was just beginning.

And which side should "the world" have chosen to be the victor?

 

Neither.

The point of intervention is that you get to lay down your own rules.

Katphood

Katphood

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

How would "the world" have stopped a civil war?

By intervening openly and forcefully.

Obviously it would be a political suicide for some but it could have been done when the war was just beginning.

 

 

Yeah, sort of like Libya. What a paradise that place became right after the moment

.  Edited by Katphood

There used to be a signature here, a really cool one...and now it's gone.  

Guard Dog

Guard Dog

Posted
Posted

If you are looking for a political opinion piece that does not involve Syria, Trump (directly anyway), etc this one is pretty brilliant http://reason.com/archives/2018/04/10/americans-cant-stand-each-other-so-lets

"While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before"

Thomas Sowell

213374U

213374U

Posted
Posted

 

 

How would "the world" have stopped a civil war?

By intervening openly and forcefully.

Obviously it would be a political suicide for some but it could have been done when the war was just beginning.

 

 

Yeah, sort of like Libya. What a paradise that place became right after the moment

. 

 

Remember: if brute force doesn't solve the problem, you aren't applying enough.

  • Like 1

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

Malcador

Malcador

Posted
Posted

Remember: if brute force doesn't solve the problem, you aren't applying enough.

The best lesson Dragonball Z ever taught us.

  • Like 2

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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