are you an alpha?

[Gromnir]

alpha strikes were a bit problematic in poe.  a player initiated combat, save for a few scripted situations.  with powers and traps and pre-combat spells and weapon choices, players would get a jump on enemies, eneacting terrible mahem 'pon foes from the safety o' stealth or by inexplicable being able to see just a few meters more than any enemy. have a heavily armoured party sneak is silly, but is crpg standard so ain't worth more than a brief nod to ludicrous staple. and yeah, alpha strikes would have been less funny if the player were subject to 'em, eh? walk down a hallway and is sudden ambushed by +8 foes with firearms? ha ha? so, alpha strikes in poe were player only and were disproportionate effective.  fine.  as long as game is actual balanced for such, then am gonna says, "fine."

 

however. the thing which annoyed us 'bout alpha strikes were how save for scripted encounters and 'gainst the handful o' foes immune to piercing weapons, we could/would use the exact same tactics to initiate the vast majority o' combat encounters.  such monotony were bad.  even if such sameness were effective, it were bad as it made a joke o' choice.  even developers conceded they were considering ways to make alpha strikes a bit less potent, or at least make so alphas need be varied more frequent.

 

so we got deadfire beta.

 

...

 

with empowers, multiclass combos, traps And explosives, not to mention a significant modal upgrade o' a particular potent alpha weapon (i.e the arquebus,) alpha strikes has become even more destructive than they were in poe. after having played a bit o' beta, am finding it is not difficult to kill (or near kill) most sub-boss kinda foes with a single empowered alpha volley, leaving only mop up duty for the adds.  no doubt big bosses such as dragons will be a bit tougher to one-shot, but am a bit disturbed by the seeming deadfire skew in favor o' increased alpha potency compared to poe... recognizing poe alphas were already a bit too powerful.

 

perhaps am alone on this.  am knowing many folks argue alphas is perfect reasonable in spite o' fact the player's party is never subject to such alpha strikes.  even so, am recalling the developers being cognizant o' poe alpha strike powha. so one must need at least question why alphas seem to have become decided more powerful in deadfire, and whether such is a good or bad thing. am knowing am falling into same old alpha habits as poe with all combats at least starting with the same tactics, almost regardless o' party composition.  feels wrong.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Boeroer]

How do you define alpha strike? Is it only done from stealth or are things like an arquebus shot with FoD in the early phase of an encounter also considered an alpha strike (I mean in this discussion)?

 

Because when we're only talking about the first I think you are right: things like Assassinate and Empower made attacks from stealth even more devastating than in PoE and it can get kind of boring. And once the developers would balance around this you would feel gimped if you're not doing it.

 

Maybe restrict Empower so that it can't be used from stealth?

 

Now that you brought this up I realize that I seldomly attack from stealth in PoE unless I have at rogue. Can't say why - maybe because it indeed gets boring after a while.

 

The second variant of alpha strike - a powerful attack in the early phase of an encounter to take out a caster or so - is ok for me and I like it. It's still a very powerful tactic but more "fair" because enemies can do/will do the same (see Lagufaeth for example, often targeting my casters with Necrotic Lances once encounter starts).

Edited February 28, 2018 by Boeroer

[Gromnir]

am thinking any attack (health damage and/or affliction causing) which functional may be started before, at, or immediate following the start o' combat, could be embraced as part o' the alpha strike descriptor.  get caught up in nomenclature somewhat misses what Gromnir sees as problematic.  if bob has his aloth cast an empowered fireball as quick as possible at the start o' virtual every combat, using hardtack to rest following every two or three encounters, then am thinking we need consider such as part o' an alpha attack even though it requires a few seconds to cast the fireball.  if is part o' the habitual or routine opening set o' actions AND is meant to cause damage, the am comfortable calling such alpha strike.  sure, poe priest casting devotions o' the faithful to start every poe combat were equal problematic, but am thinking it would be beyond reason to suggest such were part o' an alpha strike.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Boeroer]

Yes, I just wanted to make sure we're talking about the same thing.

 

As I said I also see a problem there. Especially with Empower and the easier resting method (without restricted camping supplies).

 

Other things like Assassinate and Backstab are obviously taylored for this. What's your take on those?

[Gfted1]

What about opening combat with a summoned weapon?

[Boeroer]

Eh, that's something for another thread.

[Insidous]

I think you are right in that there are many new tools to strengthen the alpha strike like assassinate, empower, or explosives and luring enemies into their own traps.

 

On the other hand a lot of the encounter design of the beta makes it hard to rely on those. When being ambushed by sand scrubs, in random encounters or by scripted titans stomping about you do not necessarily get those benefits. So I would say if the encounter design is equally good in the main game, this won't become a problem

[Boeroer]

But you would need a lot more of those scripted encounter starts.

[Insidous]

But you would need a lot more of those scripted encounter starts.

 

If you try to cheese your way through the game, even a few of them make a big difference

[IndiraLightfoot]

I certainly wasn't. I was some plain ol' lollygagger, it seems, and got by using other tactics, even if I rather early made it through PotD solo. I certainly missed out on some juicy advantages.

However, I suspect I'll refrain from using this newly won knowledge in Deadfire, but after a few playthroughs, who knows?

[Gromnir]

Yes, I just wanted to make sure we're talking about the same thing.

 

As I said I also see a problem there. Especially with Empower and the easier resting method (without restricted camping supplies).

 

Other things like Assassinate and Backstab are obviously taylored for this. What's your take on those?

 

backstab and assassinate is ok... in a vacuum.   if we were looking at a single vanilla rogue doing their backstabbing at the start o' combat, it wouldn't seem bad.  the thing is, even though am current doing most beta runs with companion knock-off parties, am getting ridiculous alpha strike potentials.  paladin multi with fod and a barbarian multi doing the barbaric blow schtick in addition to an edér

clone doing a simple backstab gouging/confounding blind attack with a powerful weapon, simultaneous with enemies being affected by individual innocuous firecrackers and a trap and chill fog, and immediate followed up by an empowered fireball...

 

*shrug*

 

as we noted already, in poe there were a smallish number o' scripted encounters which prevented alpha strikes. in deadfire am suspecting we will get a goodly number o' such, and more.  however, the beta does suggest the overwhelming majority o' encounters is gonna be subject to alpha striking. non-optimized parties such as Gromnir is current utilizing will be able to down multiple foes within the first three seconds o' combat, including s'posed tougher foes with unique names. have not had to actual fight the fishead broodmother the last half dozen times we faced her as we killed her either immediate at start of combat, or w/i the first 2 seconds o' combat. 

 

alpha striking tactics became a bit monotonous in poe.  am seeing the trend continue in deadfire. empowers make alpha strikes more effective than they were in poe.  multiclass synergies frequent result in impressive alpha strike potentials not available in poe.  the arquebus is a high damage weapon with a modal such that if we actual miss, we find our self double checking the dice roll to see how such were possible-- give to characters am less concerned with seeing crit. am able to set traps and use explosives and even cast a few aoe damage spells pre combat.

 

am realizing the developers is doing all kinda stuff to make encounters challenging.  the saints often aren't subject to alpha strikes as they rise from their tombs after combat begins.  got skeletons climbing up ladders (spawning) to get behind party.  am predicting deadfire will have stuff such as skaen temple final confrontation from poe which simple will not allow a party to start combat stealthed. etc.  developers is no doubt doing all kinda clever stuff.  unfortunately they also created all kinds o' new toys for the player which make alpha strikes far more deadly.  

 

HA!  Good Fun!

[Juodas Varnas]

The only alpha strikes i use are the ones in BATTLETECH!

 

But seriously, i prefer long drawn out battles, than ones you end before they even start by having your entire party vomit massive burst damage at the enemy.

[wahmann1]

alpha strikes were a bit problematic in poe.  a player initiated combat, save for a few scripted situations.  with powers and traps and pre-combat spells and weapon choices, players would get a jump on enemies, eneacting terrible mahem 'pon foes from the safety o' stealth or by inexplicable being able to see just a few meters more than any enemy. have a heavily armoured party sneak is silly, but is crpg standard so ain't worth more than a brief nod to ludicrous staple. and yeah, alpha strikes would have been less funny if the player were subject to 'em, eh? walk down a hallway and is sudden ambushed by +8 foes with firearms? ha ha? so, alpha strikes in poe were player only and were disproportionate effective.  fine.  as long as game is actual balanced for such, then am gonna says, "fine."

 

however. the thing which annoyed us 'bout alpha strikes were how save for scripted encounters and 'gainst the handful o' foes immune to piercing weapons, we could/would use the exact same tactics to initiate the vast majority o' combat encounters.  such monotony were bad.  even if such sameness were effective, it were bad as it made a joke o' choice.  even developers conceded they were considering ways to make alpha strikes a bit less potent, or at least make so alphas need be varied more frequent.

 

so we got deadfire beta.

 

...

 

with empowers, multiclass combos, traps And explosives, not to mention a significant modal upgrade o' a particular potent alpha weapon (i.e the arquebus,) alpha strikes has become even more destructive than they were in poe. after having played a bit o' beta, am finding it is not difficult to kill (or near kill) most sub-boss kinda foes with a single empowered alpha volley, leaving only mop up duty for the adds.  no doubt big bosses such as dragons will be a bit tougher to one-shot, but am a bit disturbed by the seeming deadfire skew in favor o' increased alpha potency compared to poe... recognizing poe alphas were already a bit too powerful.

 

perhaps am alone on this.  am knowing many folks argue alphas is perfect reasonable in spite o' fact the player's party is never subject to such alpha strikes.  even so, am recalling the developers being cognizant o' poe alpha strike powha. so one must need at least question why alphas seem to have become decided more powerful in deadfire, and whether such is a good or bad thing. am knowing am falling into same old alpha habits as poe with all combats at least starting with the same tactics, almost regardless o' party composition.  feels wrong.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

I think you have made a good point, so I cited you in one of the resolve threads, arguing it would be nice to build up to empower over time with a speed that depends upon RES. That would simultaneously address the alpha strike "problem" and the RES weakness "problem." (In quotes because reasonable folks could probably say they are not, in fact, problems.)

[Yosharian]

alpha strikes were a bit problematic in poe.  a player initiated combat, save for a few scripted situations.  with powers and traps and pre-combat spells and weapon choices, players would get a jump on enemies, eneacting terrible mahem 'pon foes from the safety o' stealth or by inexplicable being able to see just a few meters more than any enemy. have a heavily armoured party sneak is silly, but is crpg standard so ain't worth more than a brief nod to ludicrous staple. and yeah, alpha strikes would have been less funny if the player were subject to 'em, eh? walk down a hallway and is sudden ambushed by +8 foes with firearms? ha ha? so, alpha strikes in poe were player only and were disproportionate effective.  fine.  as long as game is actual balanced for such, then am gonna says, "fine."

 

however. the thing which annoyed us 'bout alpha strikes were how save for scripted encounters and 'gainst the handful o' foes immune to piercing weapons, we could/would use the exact same tactics to initiate the vast majority o' combat encounters.  such monotony were bad.  even if such sameness were effective, it were bad as it made a joke o' choice.  even developers conceded they were considering ways to make alpha strikes a bit less potent, or at least make so alphas need be varied more frequent.

 

so we got deadfire beta.

 

...

 

with empowers, multiclass combos, traps And explosives, not to mention a significant modal upgrade o' a particular potent alpha weapon (i.e the arquebus,) alpha strikes has become even more destructive than they were in poe. after having played a bit o' beta, am finding it is not difficult to kill (or near kill) most sub-boss kinda foes with a single empowered alpha volley, leaving only mop up duty for the adds.  no doubt big bosses such as dragons will be a bit tougher to one-shot, but am a bit disturbed by the seeming deadfire skew in favor o' increased alpha potency compared to poe... recognizing poe alphas were already a bit too powerful.

 

perhaps am alone on this.  am knowing many folks argue alphas is perfect reasonable in spite o' fact the player's party is never subject to such alpha strikes.  even so, am recalling the developers being cognizant o' poe alpha strike powha. so one must need at least question why alphas seem to have become decided more powerful in deadfire, and whether such is a good or bad thing. am knowing am falling into same old alpha habits as poe with all combats at least starting with the same tactics, almost regardless o' party composition.  feels wrong.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

As someone who has 288 hours in PoE, has completed the game on Path of the Damned once (without a Priest!) and is currently going through another PotD playthrough, has browsed many character guides on the forums, has created many, many different characters, including a full custom party...

 

I have no clue what you're talking about.

[Enoch]

I found weapon-based alpha strikes very effective early in Pillars 1's patch progression.  But once certain missile weapon ranges were tuned down, I had better results opening with debuffs.  Best combat-opener in Pillars 1, to me, was a simple Sunbeam.  Small AoE, sure, but it's one of the longest range spells and the Blind (a fairly debilitating soft-CC effect) duration is really long.  If you can get 2 or more enemies standing next to each other, it's lovely.  Also good:  Painful Interdiction, which you can get per-encounter before you've Mastered Sunbeam; Ryngrim's Enervating Terror for when you're willing to spend a higher-level spell.

 

Anyhow, whatever your opening attack of choice, I do agree that a party-wide low investment in Stealth to enable this was a bit overpowered.  I suppose the solution is to tune up the vision/listening ranges of higher-level enemies, such that a character will need to have a significant Stealth investment to get into range.  Related:  have fewer 15M-range spells/abilities. 

[Gromnir]

am not certain how to make more clear... likely do not need to. (clarification/edit: this post were not specific directed at enoch, in case such were unclear.)

 

'cause o' the player ability to almost invariably initiate combat encounters on their own terms, the player has a distinct advantage.  enemies begin flat-footed as it were, with no combat buffs or defenses.  the player may choose a single particular deadly foe to attempt and erase from the battlefield w/o needing to fend off adds while also certain of being free from afflictions. the player may choose to place traps before combat, or not.  the player may choose to use explosives before combat, or not.  the player may choose to cast spells which can be cast outside of combat, or not.  for deadfire has increased the player's advantage for initiating combat.  few non dragon foes may shrug off a fusilade o' multiple, simultaneous and empowered attacks with absolute zero chance to heal or defend 'tween such attacks.  enemy options at the instant o' combat = zero.

 

poe1 alpha strike advantages were considerable, but as enoch notes, some such advantages were curbed a bit... none more so than were traps. could kill dragons in less than a minute by using the petrification traps when poe were first released. the thing is, traps are highly efficacious again in deadfire and explosives may also add debuffs, functionally delivered/set before combat even begins. firearm ranges were indeed reduced, but with firecrackers you may lure baddie-nogoodniks into your effective range while also debilitating 'em. and the aforementioned chill fog is a spell with a significant duration which may be cast before combat, has a decent range, causes blindness over a medium area aoe, and is a level 1 wizard spell. 

 

player has all the advantages by initiating combat.  empower, arquebus modal, explosives and unique multiclass synergies make a player's opening barage even more lethal than it were in poe.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited March 1, 2018 by Gromnir

[dunehunter]

I can imagine how powerful it is to alpha the battle with 5 assassinate fireball. Bu I find nothing wrong with it. Like u can play 5 Dragon Trashed Chanter in PoE 1, isn’t it even more boring ? It’s jusr ones play style that’s all.

[KDubya]

You don't need to take it to any extremes like 5 empowered assassin fireballs, just each guy having an Arquebus in one slot is enough. Even without stealth you see enemies before they see you. Then just activate the Arquebus modal for +20 accuracy and pick who gets shot first.

 

Its not as if enemies are capable of switching weapons during combat. If enemy encounters started off with a firing line of aimed Arquebus shots before they switched to melee weapons there'd be a fair bit of crying on the forums.

 

Sure it gets monotonous but it is damn effective and virtually foolproof. Even if the enemy spell casters are back far enough to not be targeted, deleting a few of the riff raff in the first seconds is still pretty good.

 

I'm with Gromnir in that only semi-scripted encounters will mitigate this. I wouldn't want this in every encounter but in the big ones it'd be nice to start at a more even footing or even at a disadvantage. It will come down to how the encounters are designed.

[Boeroer]

The raising saints and the crawling skeletons are a nice addition to the relativly simple PoE "cutscenes" or scripted combat introductions though. I can image they entail a lot more work, but I would be happy so see a lot more of those. Engwithan Titan is basically the same. It not only prevents massive alpha strikes from stealth (or right at the start ot battle) but also looks pretty neat and gives you those "oh crap!" moments I really like.

Edited March 1, 2018 by Boeroer

[Madscientist]

First of all, I have finished the beta on normal without alpha strikes and I could win every battle without problems. ( Only exception: I talked to the broodmother so she does not attack, then I placed my chars and then I attacked her). I also did not use empower, first because I did forget it exists ( this is the only game I know that has such a mechanic) and second because I tend to hoard things because "maybe I need it later".

 

That being said, I agree that I like more scripted events and I dislike I all enemies walk around mindlessly and you can finish most groups with an asassin fireball from stealth.

examples that I like:

- I like to be ambushed when it makes sense. good examamples are:

 + In IWD you go through a door and when you are on the other side (new map) you are in a big room and many enemies stand in a half circle, ready to attack you.

 + In Drakensang you enter a ruin full of cultists. As your group enters the ruin you see a cut scene where the cultists hide behind pillars and once you enter they attack from all sides.

 + In PoE1 when you enter the white forge and have the encounter on the bridge (my solution: send your tank and once they see you run behind a corner and wait for the enemy)

 + You start a fight, the enemy makes an alarm and then one or more different groups of enemies come fromm different sides.

 + In Dragon Age Origin when you get ambushed by bandits if you explore the streets of the capital.

 

- I did not like:

 + you sneak to an enemy, but when you get closer you unstealth automatically, walk to the enemy, talk and then you fight. Especially if the cutscene makes you walk in a formation you do not like.

If they want you to talk with the enemy in any case, let the scene start when you enter the room, not when you sneak close to them.

Allow us to ambush people even if they have something importent to say. This way you will miss some info and you have to find out yourself where to continue or you cannot solve a quest in a certain way anymore. Well, or you have the cheap way that they drop a note with the info.

 

Encounter design was not a strong point in PoE1 ( compared to IWD, which had some of the best), but it improved in the expansions (WM1+2) and if they continue that way I am happy.

 

- When I say that I like this, I mean fom an immersion perspective. As player I am not happy when I get ambushed.

 

- Not all encounters can and should be done that way. But if such things happen regulary, players will learn that things like an empowered stealth fireball do not always work and they have to find different tactics for different battles. Things become boring fast if you can win all fights by repeating the same things again and again.

 

- Its fine for me if you can ambush some enemies, but it should not always be possible and there should be moments where enemies ambush you ( or at least they try it).

[Gromnir]

You don't need to take it to any extremes like 5 empowered assassin fireballs, just each guy having an Arquebus in one slot is enough. Even without stealth you see enemies before they see you. Then just activate the Arquebus modal for +20 accuracy and pick who gets shot first.

 

Its not as if enemies are capable of switching weapons during combat. If enemy encounters started off with a firing line of aimed Arquebus shots before they switched to melee weapons there'd be a fair bit of crying on the forums.

 

Sure it gets monotonous but it is damn effective and virtually foolproof. Even if the enemy spell casters are back far enough to not be targeted, deleting a few of the riff raff in the first seconds is still pretty good.

 

I'm with Gromnir in that only semi-scripted encounters will mitigate this. I wouldn't want this in every encounter but in the big ones it'd be nice to start at a more even footing or even at a disadvantage. It will come down to how the encounters are designed.

 

yeah, the one mechanical/gameplay feature we simple do not understand, insofar as balance and alpha strikes is concerned, is the deadfire arquebus modal.  

 

scripted events as we mentioned with saints and skeletons and a few o' the quasi-boss battles akin to the one "in" the adra pillar which at least prevents a stealth alpha, is the ideal fix.  enoch already noted how ranged weapons max range were decreased and is unlikely one wants such reduced further.  lagufaeth, in wm, were subject to alpha striking, but the developers added large numbers and made 'em so fast moving such that maybe one alpha strike would be possible, but were often not worth the effort... though am genuine not so much in favor o' more such largely mindless swarm tactics from foes to increase challenge.

 

I can imagine how powerful it is to alpha the battle with 5 assassinate fireball. Bu I find nothing wrong with it. Like u can play 5 Dragon Trashed Chanter in PoE 1, isn’t it even more boring ? It’s jusr ones play style that’s all.

 

imbalance is rare increasing the enjoyment o' a game.  will be people who advocate improvements or changes based sole on some kinda elusive and elastic and highly subjective notions.  don't even get us started on immersion or fun labels... as if either mean anything sans specifics. bad balance, however, is a genuine issue for game developers.  sure, there is a subjective quality to balance as the degree o' balance needed to make dh happy will likely be different than Gromnir, but put a sword in deadfire which 3x per rest auto kills any enemy on the screen.  fun? immersive? balanced?  even the most obtuse advocate o' abandoning balance is gonna have a hard time suggesting such a sword does anything good for the game.  balance is a real concern; is simple a matter o' finding appropriate balance. 

 

if a tactic is so overwhelming useful as to become ritual, it is likely unbalanced and need be looked at with greater scrutiny.  alpha strikes, which became less potent in wm 'cause o' encounter design and enemy ai, is once again extreme effective in a large % o' combat situations.  am not expecting a fix for deadfire, save perhaps a reduction o' the arquebus modal accuracy.  is too late to make widespread changes to encounters and ai, but am hopeful the developers is cognizant o' the issue, and once again rebalance for expansions.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Boeroer]

One thing about Deadfire's arquebus:

 

compared to PoE's arquebus and also other weapons in Deadfire its base values got nerfed. It now has less base damage and doesn't do any extra crit damage besides potentially gaining 30% from double PEN.

 

It also still has an ACC malus.

 

The modal is nice to prevent misses, but do you guys really think it's that overwhelmingly good as alpha strike tool?

 

I don't know because I didn't use arquebus much so far.

[Terminator]

No I am not ALPHA to POE or POE2. I even joined later in year 2017 because before that I had not good enough computer. No I am not poor in fact I am landlord and dream of early retirement (realistic dream) and thinking of buying Obsidian version of POE2.

 

I joined Neverwinter MMO that is a Dungeons Dragons game in early stage like closed BETA. It was very good game but eventually I got bored on it.

 

Careful there about ALPHA. Wolves have ALPHA in the packs. Wolfnumbers have fully recovered in my country Finland Europe and lately they have become little bit more brave and more aggressively. Of course we kill wolves on hunting season to keep their numbers in check.

The Howling Reborn Werewolf Transformation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjW09R47rGs

 

There you go the most nasty youtube ALPHA video:)

 

On more serious note you talk about some alpha strikes or how game works in early stage of development... whatever I  will be content with what they develop and as for strategy how to play that remains to be seen.

Edited March 1, 2018 by Terminator

[Gromnir]

One thing about Deadfire's arquebus:

 

compared to PoE's arquebus 

this kinda thing is getting folks in trouble.  with addition o' penetration, absence o' dr and changes in combat speed, it is likely a mistake to use poe as the benchmark.  is also different as classes don't have disperate acc and weapon proficiency is complete different--an entire party o' arquebus users is gonna be more viable in deadfire than it were in poe during alpha strike phase as you not need an initial accuracy buff to make many characters accurate enough with the arquebus.  arquebus is a great deadfire choice as one also not need consider armour reduction debuffs save for particular pierce-resistant foes.  etc. deadfire is different.

 

a party with a couple burst kinda damage dealers, such as paladin/whatever and rogue/whatever, in addition to three other arquebus users, is doing silly alpha damage.  deadfire combat is slower than poe, so an alpha strike during which speed is a relative non factor, is even more potent--5 relative high damage attacks, with excessive penetration, all happening simultaneous, is 'bout as fast as is possible in deadfire.  

 

even so, as we mentioned earlier, empowered fireballs from wizards, or empowered returning storm for druids, is a tactic worth considering as a replacement for the arquebus. the bursty single class and multiclass weapon users is seeing the comical virtual  guaranteed numbers from an arquebus, but frequent when fighting groups, those empowered aoe or duration spells is a superior choice for an alpha 'weapon.'

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Boeroer]

I agree to all of that.

 

Just to clarify: what I meant was that arquebuses don't have more base damage than other "heavy hitters" in Deadfire and can't get bonus crit damage. With the +20 you can count on overpenetration, but that is "only" an additive 30% which can counter the missing 25% from crit (and you won't miss of course). Viable choice of course, but I wondered if it's really overwhelmingly good for alpha strikes (you guys made it sound like the modal is too good). As I said I'm only guessing around.

 

I brought up PoE because there the arquebus has the highest base damage and at least does +30% on a crit (bad ACC though) so it seemed like the even more obvious choice for alpha strikes. Now that I think about it: I mainly use to snipe casters and such - enemies who are squishy but have high damage/annoyance potential. So maybe I get this impression because then the lower ACc doesn't matter that much.

 

I can see that for bosses with high AR and defenses the Deadfire arquebus + modal (especially when used by several party members) can be a nightmare.

Edited March 2, 2018 by Boeroer