Politics Princess' Sweet Sixteen

[Bartimaeus]

CNN says that Chief of Staff John Kelly and National Security Advisor H.R. McMaster "[are] poised to depart soon." Not sure if of their own will or not. Trump also says, "I'm really at a point where we're getting very close to having the cabinet and other things that I want." Back to the clown show...

Edited March 14, 2018 by Bartimaeus

[smjjames]

Just once I'd like to see a politician accept defeat with grace. Not holding my breath.

 

To be fair, they're both within reason to call a recount. I too thought there'd be an automatic recount as it's within range of one.

[Guard Dog]

Actually there are enough absentee ballots out to turn the election, if they go 90% one way. Not likely but still something for the Republican to hope on.

[smjjames]

Even if Saccone wins, he'll have to run again in November and because the districts will be redrawn, it won't exist in it's current shape anymore.

[Bartimaeus]

It was my understanding that that was true last night, but the bigger of the two counties that had outstanding absentee ballots have now been counted, and there are only around two hundred remaining absentee ballots remaining in the other outstanding county, and even if they were 100% for the Republican, it wouldn't be enough.

[Zoraptor]

CNN says that Chief of Staff John Kelly and National Security Advisor H.R. McMaster "[are] poised to depart soon." Not sure if of their own will or not. Trump also says, "I'm really at a point where we're getting very close to having the cabinet and other things that I want." Back to the clown show...

 

Somewhat relevant to this, I can't help but think that the US has learnt completely the wrong lesson from Putin's success. Trump- and a decent proportion of the US in general- confuses respect and fear and wanted a 'decisive' leader to bring back fear rather than respect. Part of being 'strong' in that sense is not having dissent in the ranks, hence Trump wanting yes men in every position (plus his fragile as bone china ego). But the fundamental problem remains the same as with GWB's big projects, it's not actually a lack of decisiveness but a lack of acceptance of reality that is the fundamental problem, and having only yes men exacerbates that rather than ameliorates it. Putin has a lot of fear and respect (and for Russia the fear aspect is an enhancement, as they have very little soft power at all) because his decisions, while autocratic, are also realistic and so have a far better success rate. US decisions are far too often based on what they want to be true, rather than what is true. That leads to massive erosions of trust when things don't work out: if you say that Iraq will be stable for 15 consecutive years and it isn't or that the Taleban is losing badly for 17 (!) consecutive years and they don't then you're only ruining your credibility.

 

Given that Trump's knowledge is not the greatest a 'gut feeling' based US policies with no internal dissent looks terrible, even if the US system overall moderates things a bit.

[smjjames]

I wonder how many countries went through a period like this only to crash and burn or just hit rock bottom and manage to recover?

 

I don't think the US tried to learn any sort of lession from Putin's success, this is part of a pattern that has been slowly growing over decades

[injurai]

I think America's assets are diversified enough that it won't all come crashing down. Unless of course the oil stops flowing.

[smjjames]

I (and I believe zoraptor meant the same) meant politically though, not domestically or economically.

[injurai]

Yeah, that's an interesting question. I'm hoping the political axis reorients around left and right libertarianism (in the lower-case sense). With maybe a cleaner defining of what social nets should be in place, and how to keep the market from becoming a racket. There is too much throwing babies out with bath water and I'm not purist when it comes out societal systems.

 

I think we need a cultural shift though before the political shift really bears any fruits though. I'm not entirely convinced my generation "millennials" are situated to have that discussion. If nothing else though the balkanizing of my generation (despite many being collectivists in ideals) is almost a renormalization of individualism by the account of people's actions. (My generation is very individualist, but less so politically, but what I'm saying is the localized ideals contradict how the political ideals play out.) So that is a good start, plus it's hard to control a highly divided nation, the only real way is through economic means and while we need to sort of the stagnating wages it's not like the middle class isn't watching the technological state improve around them. Of course a divided nation does mean a unified upper class get's to more or less float on a settled sea, but there will never not be that upper echelon. The real fight to be had will be reeling back the growing oligarchical class.

[Zoraptor]

Economically the US is absolutely safe until such time as the USD isn't reserve currency. Nobody is going to call in loans when doing so makes the repayments, many of your investments and much of the world's economy effectively worthless. Owning debt is also good leverage, though limited due to the first reason. Domestic US politics is pretty opaque to foreigners, it could be close to some sort of systemic collapse and no one would know because people are always saying it's close to some sort of collapse.

 

I don't think the US tried to learn any sort of lession from Putin's success, this is part of a pattern that has been slowly growing over decades

 

Putin is shorthand for the phenomenon, certainly. He's the prominent current example of a 'decisive' leader and there's a certain obsession about him and a need to either beat him- or be like him- from many in the US including Trump. That contrasts to, say, Shi Jinpeng in China who is just as authoritarian but less directly assertive/ confrontational, internationally, and has far more soft power but only attracts relatively small amounts of attention.

 

(The phenomenon itself probably goes back to Alex the Great- or Julius Caesar. Veni vidi vici, alea iacta est; it's like politicians desperately want to get similarly 'decisive' achievements to be remembered by while not remembering that JC wasn't exactly concerned with legalities and norms; and should have been utterly curbstomped by Pompey in Greece because he ignored reality)

[smjjames]

Arguably the phenomenon existed as far back as there was any chieftan with ambitions.

 

Though there is a difference between a competent decisive leader (Putin) vs an incompetent decisive leader (Trump, though I wouldn't call him 'decisive', not in the usual meaning anyway), a competent leader with an authoritarian bent would be more dangerous as they'd be able to work the system more subtly, whereas Trump is flailing around and trying to see what sticks.

[Zoraptor]

Agreed, that's kind of why I mentioned Shi. For the US system he's a far better model strongman type than Putin as he's a lot more subtle about things while being immovable when he thinks it necessary, and both China and the US have huge economic clout that can be used as influence. Which- apart from gas, and that's a double edged sword- Russia lacks almost entirely.

[Bartimaeus]

Only loosely political: Donald Trump Jr.'s wife Vanessa is leaving him, says she’s "uncomfortable" with the Trump family. An additional excerpt from a semi-related story:

 

"Vanessa told The New York Times in 2006 that Donald Trump had introduced her to his son at a fashion show twice within five minutes. The pair did not hit it off during the awkward interactions.

 

Six weeks later, they met again at a mutual friend's party. They didn't recognize each other until after an hour-long conversation.

 

"Then suddenly, something clicked: Wait, you were at that fashion show. Wait, you're 'the one with the retarded dad!' Vanessa blurted out," The Times reported."

 

lmao

Edited March 15, 2018 by Bartimaeus

[Guard Dog]

I would be hard pressed to come up with a more selfish or reprehensible individual in American politics today than her. You really want to know why we are stuck with the Donald Trump chaos show? Right here. Sneering condescension and extreme narcissism does not play well to an American public whose economic fortunes have been brought low. Even now she can't get over herself. Donald Trump is President today because enough people found him to be less repulsive than her. That saddest thing of all is there were other options. And before anyone trots out the whole "third party can't win" trope if enough people decided  both Clinton and Trump were equally bad and voted a third party they would have won. It would have been helpful had Johnson been invited to the debates . But the Committee for Presidential Debates is controlled by Democrat and Republican politicians. The only they they agree to work together on is to keep everyone else out of their clubhouse. But this notion of there only being two choices is only true because too many people think it is.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&v=3KKPpjN5PTc

[Malcador]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2018/03/14/in-fundraising-speech-trump-says-he-made-up-facts-in-meeting-with-justin-trudeau/

 

Sounds like my coworkers, with this bull****ting.

[Terminator]

Well so what is USA going to do something about North Korea what do you think? I don't know but for some reason some Finnish forums are full of people who believe USA actually will take military action, but I know it is a tough choice to make and I don't have any specific beliefs regarding that subject but I keep an open mind for possibilities.

 

Speculation in Finnish forums hit so far that some believed USA would attack after Winter Olympics and now Winter Olympics is over.

 

In the news currently relationship between UK and Russia hit rock bottom after ex Russian spy was murdered in UK the Uk has now as responce deported many Russian diplomats that were in UK.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Terminator

[injurai]

I would be hard pressed to come up with a more selfish or reprehensible individual in American politics today than her. You really want to know why we are stuck with the Donald Trump chaos show? Right here. Sneering condescension and extreme narcissism does not play well to an American public whose economic fortunes have been brought low. Even now she can't get over herself. Donald Trump is President today because enough people found him to be less repulsive than her. That saddest thing of all is there were other options. And before anyone trots out the whole "third party can't win" trope if enough people decided  both Clinton and Trump were equally bad and voted a third party they would have won. It would have been helpful had Johnson been invited to the debates . But the Committee for Presidential Debates is controlled by Democrat and Republican politicians. The only they they agree to work together on is to keep everyone else out of their clubhouse. But this notion of there only being two choices is only true because too many people think it is.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&v=3KKPpjN5PTc

 

Trump is an unworthy piece of ****, but my god she sounds delusional here.

 

We have idle populations in the heartland that want to work. We have poor working class whites who are increasingly turning to the labor politics of Bernie Sander's, yes in red states. Her accreditation of GDP to a specific population is a flawed argument from the start because wealth and cash flows are arbitrated and controlled. In fact tons of GDP gets accredited to people who are essentially rent-seakers. Then there is the whole issue of pushing the surplus population "out of the kingdom" where they are of the wrong background to share in the state sponsored opportunities that she pretends to create. He party is the one against victim blaming, you'd think she'd see the irony. Instead she willfully turns the working class population into something she can resent, absolutely disgusting.

 

Hillary cannot be a more out of touch person. To think how many supporters she has that threw in behind her back when Obama was campaigning, a lot of those same people now act like Obama was their savior. People who will hitch themselves to anything that expedites their moral standing amongst the left collective, those are especially as deplorable as any of the identitarian collectivist right. I can't believe people still cling Hillary's every word.

[smjjames]

Well so what is USA going to do something about North Korea what do you think? I don't know but for some reason some Finnish forums are full of people who believe USA actually will take military action, but I know it is a tough choice to make and I don't have any specific beliefs regarding that subject but I keep an open mind for possibilities.

 

Speculation in Finnish forums hit so far that some believed USA would attack after Winter Olympics and now Winter Olympics is over.

 

In the news currently relationship between UK and Russia hit rock bottom after ex Russian spy was murdered in UK the Uk has now as responce deported many Russian diplomats that were in UK.

 

I honestly don't know. First there was the sudden (though I guess in hindsight it would have been predictable) offer of one-on-one talks with Kim Jong Un, then silence (no confirmation or anything) from NK, then Trump decided now was a good time to reshuffle his cabinet, which is going to delay the talks.

 

It's definetly possible that Kim was also worried that Trump might do a pre-emptive strike after the Olympics, but the talks up the stakes and make it more likely for things to go wrong. Now he's putting in Pompeo who is a real hawk on NK and Trump is rumored to be possibly putting in Bolton to replace McMaster as National Security Director, and he's even more of a hawk than Pompeo.

 

So, really, it depends on Trumps mood and the time of day.

 

edit: On Hillary, yeah, she really needs to just disappear from the radar, metaphorically, because she isn't helping anything.

Edited March 15, 2018 by smjjames

[Gfted1]

Dayum, Tomi Lahren is a smokeshow. That is all.

[Malcador]

Dayum, Tomi Lahren is a smokeshow. That is all.

Apparently she kicked dogs, though, or so the top Google returns indicate

[Gfted1]

Yeah that's the story that prompted me to look her up again. Dayum!

[Malcador]

Yeah that's the story that prompted me to look her up again. Dayum!

 

Well to each their own, but she's just ok.  

 

As for Clinton, yeah, not sure why she can't just retreat to private life and be quiet. You'd think she would go for that, means not dealing with this bull**** all the time or having Trump talk about you, etc.

[redneckdevil]

It's the only thing that keeps her relevant now a days. Plus with our "victimhood is empowering" culture we have, I don't blame her for sticking around. Let her keep talking and maybe the ones who were accusing sexism! for not voting for her will finally get in their heads that she was ****.

[Elerond]

 

Well so what is USA going to do something about North Korea what do you think? I don't know but for some reason some Finnish forums are full of people who believe USA actually will take military action, but I know it is a tough choice to make and I don't have any specific beliefs regarding that subject but I keep an open mind for possibilities.

 

Speculation in Finnish forums hit so far that some believed USA would attack after Winter Olympics and now Winter Olympics is over.

 

In the news currently relationship between UK and Russia hit rock bottom after ex Russian spy was murdered in UK the Uk has now as responce deported many Russian diplomats that were in UK.

 

I honestly don't know. First there was the sudden (though I guess in hindsight it would have been predictable) offer of one-on-one talks with Kim Jong Un, then silence (no confirmation or anything) from NK, then Trump decided now was a good time to reshuffle his cabinet, which is going to delay the talks.

 

It's definetly possible that Kim was also worried that Trump might do a pre-emptive strike after the Olympics, but the talks up the stakes and make it more likely for things to go wrong. Now he's putting in Pompeo who is a real hawk on NK and Trump is rumored to be possibly putting in Bolton to replace McMaster as National Security Director, and he's even more of a hawk than Pompeo.

 

So, really, it depends on Trumps mood and the time of day.

 

edit: On Hillary, yeah, she really needs to just disappear from the radar, metaphorically, because she isn't helping anything.

 

 

Kim's offer for talks is strategic move to make it harder for US do pre-emptive strike, because it would look quite badly for US to do strike against NK after they have offered to participate in denuclearization talks, especially China would react quite badly to such strikes in their sphere of influence and they would use them as excuse for either military or economical actions against USA. Also there is quite little to gain, outside of some possible domestic political points,  from strike NK even if they have ICBMs capable to delivering nukes to continental USA and nuclear warheads to arm them with. 

 

So even though Kim seems like nutty leader, he seems to be much better politician than Trump at least in this issue, considering that Trump gave quite additional power for Kim by not just acknowledging his offer but boasting how big deal said offer is.