WTF are sidekicks?

[Yosharian]

 

 

If that's the case you should just use your own characters, because those hove no text...

Yeah, or the sidekicks, cause that's what they're for.

 

quality discussion ... reasonable forumgoers

You are not reasonable. You are just constantly repeating what you want. Achilles on the other hand just stated, that there are reasons for the sidekicks to be in the game and that they are alrerady in, so all that complaining is useless, especially as you didn't even play the ****ing game yet.

 

And guess what: Surprisingly other people want other things than you and guess what else: They will get them and you won't. Get over it!

 

Seriously: What's your problem guys? All that whining and nagging and "I want, I want, I want" that came to this forum in the last year or so. It is so incredibly annoying.

Preach Mord. Totally agree. Love the folks on the forum but it’s been pretty doom and gloom lately - I can’t wait for Deadfire. I trust that Obsidian will deliver something great as they did before.

 

 

Yes it's so doom and gloom with posts such as 'I found some good Fire Godlike portraits guys!' and 'check out this awesome Pale Elf portrait' and '<200 posts theorycrafting about what my main character for Deadfire will be>' and 'I'd just like to know why it's mechanically difficult for companions to have all subclasses available'.

 

What a load of crap.  I have been posting lots of things on the Deadfire forums and even where I have found things that I don't like, such as the inability to pick from all subclasses for companions, I have attempted to remain positive.  I made like one snarky comment illustrating my frustration on this topic and even then I apologised for the snark afterwards.

 

I was even posted in the ship battles thread about how we should be constructive when giving feedback on the ship combat rather than simply asking how it can be skipped (and even that discussion was quite nuanced actually, it wasn't wholly negative).

 

It's complete nonsense that legit discussion around game mechanics is instantly shouted down as 'whining' or 'entitlement'.

[Yonjuro]

Well, everyone remembers characters that stand out, and Minsc and HK-47 certainly did. Characters being larger than life, almost caricatures, can work well if it is not overdone. I think another reason for liking Minsc is that he had a fairly clear cut characterization. I find it hard to think of clearly defining characteristics for the PoE cast....

 

 Yes. I think you and Gromnir are on to something. The characters in BG2 are exaggerations. That is what makes them memorable. They are "larger than life" because the few lines that are written about them (and spoken by them) are more evocative than if they were written more realistically.

 

 It reminds me of a talk by a neurologist who looks at exaggeration in visual art by looking at which brain areas are active in an MRI. Artists make things seem more real (in the brain) than real things by exaggerating.  I'll link to the talk in case anyone is interested. If you care but don't have a lot of time, skip to about minute 33 to get directly to the part about exaggeration.  Skip to minute 48 to see how it even works for seagulls.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NzShMiqKgQ

Edited March 11, 2018 by Yonjuro

[Messier-31]

*Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles*

 

Teenage Mutant NINJA Turtles

 

Damn it, Carl! ​You had one job!

[JerekKruger]

Teenage Mutant NINJA Turtles

 

Not in the UK. Apparently if we used the word "ninja" in a kids programme all out children would become psychopathic stealth killers or something.

[Messier-31]

Not in the UK. Apparently if we used the word "ninja" in a kids programme all out children would become psychopathic stealth killers or something.

 

Seriously? You savages.

[Wormerine]

 

*Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles*

 

 

Teenage Mutant NINJA Turtles

 

Damn it, Carl! ​You had one job!

Had to try and see how many people will pick up on that:-).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H3x0a8xU1jc

Hilarious how teenage mutants are fine, but not ninja:)

[Messier-31]

[Wormerine]

As an additional trivia polish version of TMNT used UK version, while translating “ninja” into polish. We are all guilty.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QMVPsTswdaU

[CottonWolf]

 

Teenage Mutant NINJA Turtles

 

Not in the UK. Apparently if we used the word "ninja" in a kids programme all out children would become psychopathic stealth killers or something.

 

 

As someone who was a child at the right time, can confirm.

[JerekKruger]

Seriously? You savages.

Yep. To quote the Wikipedia article:

 

... local censorship policies deemed the word ninja to have excessively violent connotations for a children's program...

I don't think it worked since almost every child knew that it was originally 'ninja' and why it had been changed.

 

Moreover my guess would be most kids watching it wouldn't have come across the weird ninja before*, so their impression wild be based off the show. If the shire gave off an excessively violent vibe the change simply meant children would think heroes were excessively violent.

 

*Remember home PCs were very rare back then, the internet even rarer, and Wikipedia nonexistent.

[Mannock]

Moreover my guess would be most kids watching it wouldn't have come across the weird ninja before*,

 

*Remember home PCs were very rare back then, the internet even rarer, and Wikipedia nonexistent.

Nah, we knew all about ninjas, both from earlier types of cartoons and from adult action movies (which we watched of course).

 

And the name change was reported all over tv (in Sweden at least) so we were all fully aware and didn't give a Splinter's ass about it.

[JerekKruger]

Nah, we knew all about ninjas, both from earlier types of cartoons and from adult action movies (which we watched of course).

 

You might be right. I can't remember what I knew about ninjas before TMNT came to the UK and therefore, by extension, what my friends did or didn't know about them.

 

And the name change was reported all over tv (in Sweden at least) so we were all fully aware and didn't give a Splinter's ass about it. 

 

Same here, hence the reason most kids knew about it making it rather pointless.

Edited March 12, 2018 by JerekKruger

[morhilane]

I'm baffled that some countries tried to hide the word ninja. Not too surprised it happened back in the late 80s/early 90s when their popularity was at its peak, it wasn't just the turtles. Ninjas were the fad back then.

[Sedrefilos]

Ninjas = spies/stealthy killers = villains.

 

So, UK did right. For some reason in the US thought ninjas were good people

 

UK tv is less ignorant that US it seems

Edited March 12, 2018 by Sedrefilos

[Boeroer]

In Germany they were also called TM "Hero" Turtles. At some point they changed that - maybe they realized how stupid that initial change was. Anyway - us Germans have a long and painful history of altering the titles of movies and TV-shows "for the "better".

Edited March 12, 2018 by Boeroer

[algroth]

I'm baffled that some countries tried to hide the word ninja. Not too surprised it happened back in the late 80s/early 90s when their popularity was at its peak, it wasn't just the turtles. Ninjas were the fad back then.

 

The UK in particular had historically some pretty harsh censorship as product of the BBFC's classification rules as well as the Video Recordings Act, so I'm not wholly surprised things would have changed there. Things have opened up a fair bit since, but maybe at the time "ninja" could have led to conflict with these same classifications for what is essentially a kids' show and thus changes were required. In the UK films still get occasionally cropped or "censored" in order to pass a different classification - the first Hunger Games had to cut a few seconds off one of its scenes to pass a 12 certificate opposite to a 15, and the same has happened for several other films whose companies wished to lower the ratings for in accordance to what their target audience would be (should be mentioned that the BBFC does *not* cut films themselves nowadays, that is done by the distributors themselves). But opposite to MPAA their reasoning for their respective ratings is often quite thorough and their decisions a lot more reglamented and transparent, and they often directly state that "X scene" is the cause for the classification and so on, almost implicitly saying the classification does not truly reflect on the film's content - such is the case with The Secret in their Eyes for example, which was a 13 in Argentina but an 18 in UK due to a particular shot where a man briefly showed his 'package' to a female character so as to threaten her with rape, which therefore invariably classified the film as such.

Edited March 12, 2018 by algroth

[Daled]

In Germany they were also called TM "Hero" Turtles. At some point they changed that - maybe they realized how stupid that initial change was. Anyway - us Germans have a long and painful history of altering the titles of movies and TV-shows "for the "better".

 

That's an habit in all western Europe I'm afraid, here in Italy sometimes they still inexplicably change movies/novels title in an uncalled for manner, not because of an understandable problem with a direct translation.

 

Ironically TMNT was just called "Ninja Turtles" translated.

Edited March 12, 2018 by Daled

[VincentNZ]

I'm baffled that some countries tried to hide the word ninja. Not too surprised it happened back in the late 80s/early 90s when their popularity was at its peak, it wasn't just the turtles. Ninjas were the fad back then.

It is understandable though, Ninjas are indeed assassins, paid murderers. If you are convicted here in Germany for murder, it is more than having killed a person with intent, but with the lowest of motives.

 

The Turtles however were heroes indeed, that used weaponry somewhat associated with japanes culture. I do wonder what they were called in the japanese original.

 

In any case discussing this topic is a bottomless pit. You can argue both ways and every coutnry has it's own flaws and specialties. In Germany you can not show certain insignia, but on daytime TV, ads are shown for a sextoy online-shop. In France, Alien vs Predator is cut by 20 minutes, but six year olds can go and watch Fifty Shades of Grey. In the US there is an uproar over a nipple, but severed limbs are generally fine. There are pros and cons in all cases and I have an opinion about this, but it is just as valid as everyone else's. That is why there is so much discussion about it. :D

 

On the topic at hand I find Sidekicks a really good idea, as they seem to have some form of personality and backstory as well, maybe even a minor task, dialogue or quest attached. It is good to be able to fill a niche with one of them, with no need to create a template character, where you would have no story at all or have to roleplay one.

It also reduces the bickering and constant expression of opinions, something that Eder really liked. Or the constant anger that this nutcase Durance was in.

 

However having read about memorable characters in this thread, I would agree that PoE has "pale" characters compared to the extremes we met in BG2 or other games. There is just something extremely likeable about a good, yet incredibly dumb Minsc and his hamster. Aerie is a total clichée, but really lovable so a natural romance choice. As is Morrigan in DA, but representing the total opposite. However each game also had some rather forgettable ones, especially BG1. Stuff like this a personal opinion though.

 

That said, each companion in PoE is really fleshed out and extremely well written, they are just indeed not over the top. I liked how Eder was mostly indifferent in tone, and how Aloth was kind of arrogant yet funny but always slightly off-balance. Durance was a crazy zealot and genuinely unlikable, yet never expelled from my party. Sagani was really empathetic and caring, yet determined. Pallegina, Hiravias and especially the Grieving Mother kind of lost a bit, Pallegina seemed not as polished and the GM just came to late into my game. I could also really relate to Kana with his knowledge seeking and his general light-hearted attitude.

 

In the end I think we have better characters in PoE, as we also have a slightly better game overall than BG2, but definitely a less memorable one.

[Blades of Vanatar]

There was Enter the Ninja back in 1981. I think a real old ninja movie was Castle of Owls or something along that line. As a kid in the late 70s/ early 80s I remember Wizardry 1 having a Ninja class and many old Japanese movies with ninjas by the scores. Hell, even AD&D had a ninja class in the original Oriental Adventures. Everyone should of known all about them by the time TMNT came about...

[Boeroer]

The Turtles however were heroes indeed, that used weaponry somewhat associated with japanes culture. I do wonder what they were called in the japanese original.

 

Erm... that Japanese original is actually of American origin.

[huang]

Yeah, if the turtles cartoon was Japanese, it would have been drawn so much better.

[SonicMage117]

It amazed me that nobody here remembers when the turtles started...

 

 

They were all black and silver and had lots of gore. Only later were they transformed into green turtles with the glow and the dark ooze created by April O'neil's father. Decapitations and ripping out hearts was common. This all was bred in 1981, which was later changed to be more marketed towards kids... Thus, adding colors to make turtles recognizable to children and censoring the turtles' dasterdly deeds to make them seem good more than nuetral and somewhat unstable.

Edited March 12, 2018 by SonicMage117

[Sedrefilos]

It amazed me that nobody here remembers when the turtles started...

 

 

They were all black and silver and had lots of gore. Only later were they transformed into green turtles with the glow and the dark ooze created by April O'neil's father. Decapitations and ripping out hearts was common. This all was bred in 1981, which was later changed to be more marketed towards kids... Thus, adding colors to make turtles recognizable to children and censoring the turtles' dasterdly deeds to make them seem good more than nuetral and somewhat unstable.

How can we remember? We're not all Americans you know

These early comics never came here (Greece) and most probably not in many other places outside the US. I only learned about them recently. Also they are very old. Many here may be younger than the TV series itself

 

Also:

Edited March 12, 2018 by Sedrefilos

[Yosharian]

 

It amazed me that nobody here remembers when the turtles started...

 

 

They were all black and silver and had lots of gore. Only later were they transformed into green turtles with the glow and the dark ooze created by April O'neil's father. Decapitations and ripping out hearts was common. This all was bred in 1981, which was later changed to be more marketed towards kids... Thus, adding colors to make turtles recognizable to children and censoring the turtles' dasterdly deeds to make them seem good more than nuetral and somewhat unstable.

How can we remember? We're not all Americans you know

These early comics never came here (Greece) and most probably not in many other places outside the US. I only learned about them recently. Also they are very old. Many here may be younger than the TV series itself

 

Edited March 12, 2018 by Yosharian

[huang]

Turtles also have movies and what not. The last one is from 2016. :D http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3949660/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_5