Some Paladin ability names and a cross class are a bit...D and D?

[neotemplar]

I agree, the lore of orders and their interaction with each other is not done deeply enough and you have to "close your eyes" sometimes.

One more episode to add to yours, in WM there is a quest involving Bleak Walkers on a contract, and I was eager to see their dark philosophy in practice. But all I saw was pure sadism and... you know, like young thugs in bad districts, intoxicated by their "toughness".

 

In my mind, walkers philosophy should be something like "atom bomb arsenal" philosophy. Yes, we create A-bombs, but we do so to avoid huge-scale world wars, not to unleash hell and feel cool for a moment.

 

I turned their leader into a pig and Sagani shot him with a shotgun I still remember it with such pleasure...

 

Maybe in Deadfire we will get more literature and even some institutions (HQs or local branches) in action.

 

UPD: I thought for a while and I think such situations can be (poorly) explained in such a way: Eora is in late medieval stage, they don't have centralised post system, not mentioning telegraph nets or radio, so goldpacts may operate from a local branch, not connected (at least not quickly connectable) with other local branches. They don't have a uniform (once again, due to early ages), so when someone is running at you in full plate with bloodied axe you can't identify him as your fellow. So sometimes they clash, like real world soldiers attack friendly targets due to poor communication, or artillery setting friendly fire etc. In such unconnected world, the only way to operate a spread organisation is being like alchogolics anonymous - your central office issues core rules, sets principles and gathers statistics, but local groups operate on their own, with sometimes years for a letter to reach central HQ. When you see enemy marked as "Goldpact Knight" - it is in-game marking of the unit for the player, it doesn't mean that your party understands that it is one of their kind.

 

Your experience in a private army corp is very interesting, btw.

Edited March 25, 2018 by neotemplar

[Torm51]

I agree, the lore of orders and their interaction with each other is not done deeply enough and you have to "close your eyes" sometimes.

One more episode to add to yours, in WM there is a quest involving Bleak Walkers on a contract, and I was eager to see their dark philosophy in practice. But all I saw was pure sadism and... you know, like young thugs in bad districts, intoxicated by their "toughness".

 

In my mind, walkers philosophy should be something like "atom bomb arsenal" philosophy. Yes, we create A-bombs, but we do so to avoid huge-scale world wars, not to unleash hell and feel cool for a moment.

 

I turned their leader into a pig and Sagani shot him with a shotgun I still remember it with such pleasure...

 

Maybe in Deadfire we will get more literature and even some institutions (HQs or local branches) in action.

 

UPD: I thought for a while and I think such situations can be (poorly) explained in such a way: Eora is in late medieval stage, they don't have centralised post system, not mentioning telegraph nets or radio, so goldpacts may operate from a local branch, not connected (at least not quickly connectable) with other local branches. They don't have a uniform (once again, due to early ages), so when someone is running at you in full plate with bloodied axe you can't identify him as your fellow. So sometimes they clash, like real world soldiers attack friendly targets due to poor communication, or artillery setting friendly fire etc. In such unconnected world, the only way to operate a spread organisation is being like alchogolics anonymous - your central office issues core rules, sets principles and gathers statistics, but local groups operate on their own, with sometimes years for a letter to reach central HQ. When you see enemy marked as "Goldpact Knight" - it is in-game marking of the unit for the player, it doesn't mean that your party understands that it is one of their kind.

 

Your experience in a private army corp is very interesting, btw.

I can see this and you are right.  Like you said there are central posts for the orders but because of lack of communications and no known uniform (you do not carry a banner around saying you are a GP Knight) I could definitely see confusion.  That being said.... the player characters order is noticed by people and commented on in some occasions so people do recognize you on the spot in many instances (especially Kind Wayfarers)....maybe you are wearing some type of badge??? lol like you said it takes some eye closing.

 

I had more fun in the military then as a contractor because you are less limited. Like I said it is not true mercenary work, you are not calling in a fire mission on some bad guys as a contractor or kicking doors down...I got to do all that in the military.  As a contractor  there are no offensive operations you mostly work as an augment to some defensive detachment guarding a post or a large base.. you can only act in self defense, an attack on your post, but it was good money   

 

PS I guess I could just avoid those areas or let the mercs attack my stronghold and rebuild it in order to "avoid" my order.  If you think about it, it is impromptu that you are there, you had to stay in the Dyrwood because of some affliction so your order likely thinks you are dead.  You are not reporting to them and whatever you were going to do was not completed and like you said its not like I have some form of instant communication line like satellite communications, HF radios or phones lol so any letter I send may take months to reach the closest chapter, if that courier doesn't get killed by some random monster or best on the way lol

 

PS PS This is one of the reasons I like Kind Wayfarers the most.  You do not need mental gymnastics to find a reason to be there.  

 

PS PS PS: I think Bleak Walkers in general are what you describe.  The guy in the quest is just a sorry excuse for one.  That is why he can only be called off by you if you are one as well.  You can tell him.  That being said because of the favored dispositions I am sure the order attracts a lot of blood thirsty people looking for an excuse to murder.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Torm51

[Ascaloth]

I've always thought there is one word that would be an excellent stand-in for religiously-flavoured terms such as "Holy", "Sacred" and "Divine", and better reflect the PoE Paladins' flavour of fanaticism;

 

"Righteous"

 

It makes sense, because every Paladin order may have its own code of conduct, but they all share the same conviction in their respective codes; thus, "righteous" in the sense of 'self-righteous'. With this, you get revised terms such as "Righteous Slayer", "Righteous Immolation" and "Righteous Purposes". Not bad at all, right?

[neotemplar]

I've always thought there is one word that would be an excellent stand-in for religiously-flavoured terms such as "Holy", "Sacred" and "Divine", and better reflect the PoE Paladins' flavour of fanaticism;

 

"Righteous"

 

It makes sense, because every Paladin order may have its own code of conduct, but they all share the same conviction in their respective codes; thus, "righteous" in the sense of 'self-righteous'. With this, you get revised terms such as "Righteous Slayer", "Righteous Immolation" and "Righteous Purposes". Not bad at all, right?

+1

[dunehunter]

Hands of Light sounds fine to me, but there's a passive called Divine Purpose which is a bit weird since Paladins aren't (necessarily) religious here. I'd also probably swap Holy Slayer and Zealot around.

 

Agreed, holy slayer seems to be more religious and suitable for a priest/rogue. Paladin/Rogue should be named as zealot.

[thekdawg21]

I Def don't see bleak walkers as dark. Cruelty can be kind in war...

[Boeroer]

Eh?

Edited April 21, 2018 by Boeroer

[thekdawg21]

Bleak Walkers have nothing in their creed that states they are evil. Let's pretend the Dyrwood gets inVaded by Readceras armies seeking vengeance for killing Waidwen. Duc Aevar, not wanting a traditional war that could cost many lives of his soldiers and farmers over a long period of time, sends the Bleak Walkers to ambush and crush the Readceras vanguard and hopefully get them to change their mind. The BW are horrifically brutal and execute them to a man, stopping the invasion there and preventing many innocent deaths.

 

I wouldn't consider their actions evil unless the intent behind their deployment was also evil.

[Boeroer]

I also wouldn't consider it to be kindness.

[JerekKruger]

You can argue whether or not the use of the Bleak Walkers in this situation is morally justified, but the actions of the Bleak Walkers themselves are evil. Executing prisoners of war is an evil act.

[Torm51]

You can argue whether or not the use of the Bleak Walkers in this situation is morally justified, but the actions of the Bleak Walkers themselves are evil. Executing prisoners of war is an evil act.

Not to mention that entire wagon train that went along with armies made up of armorers, weaponsmiths, apothecaries etc non combatants that they would slaughter.

 

I see where you are coming from in that the act might prevent further bloodshed but it is evil.

[Skazz]

 

You can argue whether or not the use of the Bleak Walkers in this situation is morally justified, but the actions of the Bleak Walkers themselves are evil. Executing prisoners of war is an evil act.

Not to mention that entire wagon train that went along with armies made up of armorers, weaponsmiths, apothecaries etc non combatants that they would slaughter.

 

I see where you are coming from in that the act might prevent further bloodshed but it is evil.

 

There's also the fact that Bleak Walkers were created to be PoE's counterpart to D&D's Blackguards, who are almost always evil fallen paladins/dark knight archetypes.