pillars door blocking

[dixon_sider]

i hope this is the correct place to post this, but i was wondering if there is an attempt to make door blocking a less dominant battle strategy in pillars 2, or at least less powerful. I understand our the strategy SHOULD be to use choke points, but I think the lack of enemy movement based skills combined with the large amount of doors and narrow paths made door blocking too powerful in the first pillars.

 

Thank you

[SonicMage117]

hi dixon-sider!

 

As far as I know, this isn't something being worked on or improved on in the sequel.

 

Perhaps someone will correct me (if they have the necessary proof).

 

Also, this is a topic for the Deadfire section of the forums but I'm sure a mod can move it if they see need.

 

Welcome to the forums!

[Bartimaeus]

​

i hope this is the correct place to post this, but i was wondering if there is an attempt to make door blocking a less dominant battle strategy in pillars 2, or at least less powerful. I understand our the strategy SHOULD be to use choke points, but I think the lack of enemy movement based skills combined with the large amount of doors and narrow paths made door blocking too powerful in the first pillars.

 

Thank you

 

​Ah, chokepoints, that age-old AI exploit. Unfortunately, there's not a whole lot you can do about it. If you had them try to calculate whether it was a wise idea to go in, you'd then have to figure out what to do in the event that it isn't. Do you have them stay back? The player would just pepper them with ranged attacks. Do you have them run away to a different area? That might work in a few areas, but not in a lot of others. Do have them take out ranged weapons themselves? Similarly to the last one, it'll make sense for some enemies to have ranged weapons, but it won't for a lot of others (especially monsters). About all I can think of that would reliably work is some sort of "shove" ability, but that would probably feel very cheap and undermine the tactics of character placement to begin with. You don't want to destroy the very idea of chokepoints afterall, as it's actually a very realistic and useful tactic in real life combat situations. It's too bad that most games' combat systems just aren't really equipped to deal with them in a way that seems organic.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Bartimaeus

[algroth]

I recall Josh mentioning that characters will now shove or displace eachother to make room for themselves in combat, but I can't find where he addressed that question right now. Then again I could also be misremembering.

[Boeroer]

Maybe enemies will make more use of pushing/teleporting/pulling abilities. Some already did in PoE (Monks, Shades, Specters) and people got pretty annoyed.

[Wormerine]

While door blocking is still a thing I found it less of an issue in Backer Beta so far. There were more engagements in open spaces, and even if I used old, good door block (which is still very effective) enemies had ways to reach back line (ranged attacks, spells, pulls, pushes etc.). I think the issue arises more from enemy composition and abilities, rather than existence of doors.

 

There is “shoving mechanic” but it works in favour of door strategy, not against. It makes sure maximum amount of people can join the fight in a chokepoint - if you have (or enemy has) two people fighting in a choke and there is space for a third one, if you decided he third guy want to join the party it will “shove” existing allied units to make space. I does not, however, make it easier to sneak through enemies as it applies to allied units only.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Wormerine

[Gromnir]

am thinking areas is likely designed with door blocking in mind.  go back to the poe beta and recall the final skaven cultist battle.  walk into room and door shuts behind you. is a number o' such poe battles where doorways ain't available.  however, doorways is also part o' player expectations, and is an easy way to adjust the difficulty o' battles w/o resorting to the difficulty slider.  no doorway advantage is gonna result in many players wondering wth is wrong with the developers.  pull back to a doorway and nevertheless get steamrolled by a bunch o' xvarts or xaurip is gonna have folks coming to the boards in droves asking why the obsidians made doorway tactics useless.  also, am gonna note we personal used doorway tactics more than once, and were glad for the option.  fight ogres, particular ogre druids, in the endless paths level 3 and such encounters is a major leap in difficulty from level 2... or levels 4 or 5 for that matter. rather than developer need complete redesigning encounters or levels, the availability o' choke points allows a player to functional self adjust the difficulty o' encounters for non pivotal/major battles. there is good reasons to maintain the current viability o' choke point fighting. 

 

'course, am hopeful the developers is equal predictable in their exorcising o' chokepoints for many unique battles.  player wanna depend on doorway tactics for +90% o' the game is a choice, but is resulting in rude but predictable awakenings for those battles which force a change in tactics. sometimes predictable is a good thing. player won't necessarily know which battles will make choke point tactics impossible, but he/she knows it is gonna happen. player expectations is met while providing unique challenges.  good.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[injurai]

I recall Josh mentioning that characters will now shove or displace eachother to make room for themselves in combat, but I can't find where he addressed that question right now. Then again I could also be misremembering.

 

You are correct!

[IndiraLightfoot]

Heh, I reckon this thread fits the general discussion for PoE2 Deadfire better, no? Time to move it?