Can Single Class Compete Under Current Sytem

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

At the same time, I wonder how different dev build is from backer beta. It lacks so much content that we know willl be in the game, that I would be surprised if what we played was barely representative of what Obsidian works on - early cut of a game, design to test stuff, rather than showcase what is to come. Still, you folks, who were part of the beta for PoE1 can judge better how much 1.0 can vary from the BB.

It's been a while, but they moved from set abilities to getting to choose for each odd level, which fundamentally changes how martial classes worked. And then they changed attributes from 0 being the 0 point to 10 being the 0 point and scores below 10 having penalties.

[DexGames]

Well, Shifted Druid was OP in Pillars I Beta... & quite Ok in 1.0.

Now it's ****ty [the Subclass]... So, hopefully it will at least be revised.

[Boeroer]

? Why ist Shapeshifter ****ty? It's one of the best classes in the beta in my opinion.

[DexGames]

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/95087-single-class-druid-shifter-subclass/

[SaruNi]

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/95087-single-class-druid-shifter-subclass/

 

So "****ty" in the sense of not liking the mechanics... not that it's not powerful. 

[Boeroer]

But there was talking about Spiritshift being OP - and then it was said Shapeshifter is ****ty. What am I supposed to think?

[SaruNi]

But there was talking about Spiritshift being OP - and then it was said Shapeshifter is ****ty. What am I supposed to think?

 

From the thread, they want the shifter to never cast any spells, so the small number of non-spell ability picks irritates them. And while the ability to shift forms and automatically heal is powerful, they'd rather have a smaller selection of forms and/or more of a progression of abilities that the form gets with new levels.

 

Of course the Storm spells, Barkskin, Form of the Delemgan et cetera can be cast before or between shifts, as well as the AoE heal spells.

Edited January 29, 2018 by SaruNi

[JerekKruger]

From the thread, they want the shifter to never cast any spells, so the small number of non-spell ability picks irritates them. And while the ability to shift forms and automatically heal is powerful, they'd rather have a smaller selection of forms and/or more of a progression of abilities that the form gets with new levels.

 

Note that whilst I want all those things, I don't conclude from that that the subclass is ****ty: it just doesn't really fit what I'd hoped from it.

[DexGames]

 

From the thread, they want the shifter to never cast any spells, so the small number of non-spell ability picks irritates them. And while the ability to shift forms and automatically heal is powerful, they'd rather have a smaller selection of forms and/or more of a progression of abilities that the form gets with new levels.

 

Note that whilst I want all those things, I don't conclude from that that the subclass is ****ty: it just doesn't really fit what I'd hoped from it.

 

 

Well yeah, should have put it that way... My bad.

[ULTIMAX]

For someone who didn't make it into the beta for deadfire, this is a very interesting thread.  

 

Out of curiosity, for people in beta, would you say some of the melee/melee combinations - such as Paladin/Barb - are as powerful or more powerful than PoE 1 casters like Wizards?  

 

There's a point mid to late game, where regardless of how well built or geared my melees were they basically felt like they were there to carry the luggage of my caster squad who totally ruled the battlefield.  

 

Was also kind of silly being able to build a controller/tank style wizard that seemed better than my fighter or a melee focused self buffing wizard with citzal's lance & martial power, basically being the best melee damage dealer I was able to build.

 

So just curious if the new multi-class melees are THAT powerful?

[Boeroer]

They are powerful. But they reason why they rule over casters is that pure casters in Deadfire are in pretty bad shape.

[IndiraLightfoot]

I nearly always use the mercenaries as they are in the beta (They are all single class), and when you reach level 9, which is max in the beta, I can review the combat log and simply see that my single class fighter and my single class rogue performs pretty well, whereas the mercenary priest simply is some sort of buffer/debuffer and mage, despite all those spells picked, is the worst. This is still true in the current new beta.

Edited February 2, 2018 by IndiraLightfoot

[Boeroer]

It's the casting speed. It prevents

 

a) smart placement of your spells (because if you retarget too often or want to switch a spell while casting, the spell is lost)

b) high dps. Damage per second can only go down a lot if you need 5 or 8 seconds + recovery for a cast like Fireball that does the same damage or less than in PoE but is like 3 times slower.

 

And all that just to enable spell interrupts as a tactical addition to combat.

 

It doesn't work. At least not for me. Every time I try a sinlge class caster (except Livegiver) I find myself kicking said caster's butt after some time and hiring a solid melee adventurer instead.

 

Waht also makes them worse than in PoE: CC effects are a lot weaker than in PoE. So even if you successfully invested a lot of time to cast a spell and it's one which will apply an affliction to the enemies - it's over too soon or the effect is so weak that it doesn't really matter. Maybe it's better with PotD. Currently I'm only testing Classic mode since this is the difficulty that will everything get balanced around I guess.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Boeroer

[IndiraLightfoot]

^What Boeroer said!

 

I'm also beta testing in Classic mode for the most part.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

In Hard combat lasts a little longer but casters consistently get pulverized and their spells aren't much use due to the long casts. I liked MaxQuest's recommendation a while back on casting speed and adopting that alone would go a long way to making casters more useful.

 

It's also worth noting that melee/caster or caster/caster multiclasses aren't talked about much because they're underwhelming. Soulblade has a powerful ability with Soul Annihilation and Wizards have some good buffs that are a .5 sec cast but beyond that there's nothing much gained and in comparison you get a lot more out of the melee/melee multiclasses like Devoted/Berserker or BleakWalker/Rogue.

[SaruNi]

In Hard combat lasts a little longer but casters consistently get pulverized and their spells aren't much use due to the long casts. I liked MaxQuest's recommendation a while back on casting speed and adopting that alone would go a long way to making casters more useful.

 

It's also worth noting that melee/caster or caster/caster multiclasses aren't talked about much because they're underwhelming. Soulblade has a powerful ability with Soul Annihilation and Wizards have some good buffs that are a .5 sec cast but beyond that there's nothing much gained and in comparison you get a lot more out of the melee/melee multiclasses like Devoted/Berserker or BleakWalker/Rogue.

 

Assassin/offensive caster was good and had surprisingly good survivability even as glass cannon on PotD, but the new patch's increase to spell recovery time may have nerfed their survivability. 

[Boeroer]

If you want to know how a fun casting setup is done then look at the Chanter - especially Skald: lots of fast casts with good durations and nice effects. Of course you need phrases first. But the Chanter starts with some into combat and a Cipher has the same pattern basically - but his spells take a lot lot longer to cast. Why?

 

Whaahaaaayyy?

 

Ach, dem sacred interrupts, I forgot...

Edited February 2, 2018 by Boeroer

[hilfazer]

It's also worth noting that melee/caster or caster/caster multiclasses aren't talked about much because they're underwhelming.

Then ranged weapon builds/classes must be very underwhelming

 

 

BTW how many melee classes are there? Barbarian is obvious due to Carnage but any others? Druid is considered a caster, no?

Monk has Long Pain so he can be ranged too. Is he viable with ranged weapons?

 

As for subclasses there's Skald, Stalker and Soul Blade. Does Shattered Pillar work with Long Pain? If no then we have 4 melee subclasses with names starting with 'S'. There's also Unbroken and i guess Darcozzi Paladini. Anyone else?

 

Should Ranger be considered a ranged class or is he fine in melee as well?

[Boeroer]

A monk can be build with ranged weapons (better as muticlass character) because things like Stunning Blows and Swift Strikes (and Lightning Strikes and Swift Flurry) work with any weapon (also with rod + blast modal = AoE stunning or cascading Flurry crits).

 

Shattered Pillar does work with Long Pain.

 

Rangers can now use Wounding Shot and other abilites in melee. I would still consider them to be a ranged class still.

 

Then ranged weapon builds/classes must be very underwhelming

 

It was said rel. often that dual scepters or the use of rod+blast with certain abilites are some of the best options/builds in Deadfire.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Then ranged weapon builds/classes must be very underwhelming

They seem to be, except for dual wielding one of the implements.

BTW how many melee classes are there?

Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, and Rogue have abilities that strongly favor melee, all Paladins abilities work for melee, and a lot of ranger abilities can be used in melee. Without factoring in casters, all the martial classes can be competent in melee with the exception of the sharpshooter subclass of Ranger. Casters have Druids focused on shifting, Skalds, and Soulblades, but from what I've been able to those function better as supplements to a melee class. Wizards and Priests can summon great melee weapons, but that takes too long and they can be pulverized before getting the spell off, even if they are able to summon one they'd probably want to multiclass because neither has particularly good melee abilities.

[PneumaticFire]

Forgive me if this has been covered, but from a role-playing perspective, is there also a disadvantage for a single class when it comes to class specific dialogue?

 

Of course we haven't seen how much will be incorporated into the game just yet, but going on POE1, there should be at least a few for each class from memory.

 

Will multiclass be able to access dialogue for both their classes in conversation as opposed to just one?  I haven't tried or seen this yet in the beta.

 

If this is the case, it's making a multi combo with Priest of Eothas (Templar) more appealing right now.

Edited February 2, 2018 by PneumaticFire

[draego]

Im pretty sure this is correct multiclass has access to two classes worth of dialogue checks