SJW Integration in Deadfire

[Mannock]

 

By that logic basically all (human) characters in PoE2 should have an asian appearance in PoE2. They are the majority of earth's population after all.  

 

 

unless the foundation of the work says otherwise.

 

 

Which basically means the writers of the game can include whatever they want. Not much to discuss then.

[Messier-31]

Which basically means the writers of the game can include whatever they want. Not much to discuss then.

 

Missing my point.

 

Devs built their world with foundations such as Vailians being mostly humans with dark complexion, etc. This is a fact known from the start, You may check the guide book, it's right there. Other SJW topics were not considered in the world building - or we are not aware about them, yet.

[daven]

I wonder what people used to discuss back on the old BG1/BG2 boards back in the day...

 

Probably Radiohead and Soundgarden and stuff.

[injurai]

Regardless of what the writer's believe personally, I expect them to display good character when writing or depicting other belief's of temperaments. The shouldn't write themselves into every character, they shouldn't caricature that which they disagree with. This goes for any combination of the writer's disposition, left, right, otherwise. This is a role-playing game about choice, through an imperfect world after all. I'd expect any writer who strayed into arbitrating utopist bias without it being an open and choice explorable theme, to be set down by the rest of the team and be reviewed on their fitness to the job.

Edited January 11, 2018 by injurai

[JerekKruger]

I predict this thread will go good places and have plenty of civil, reasoned discussion 

[rjshae]

We need an SJW Inquisition faction with variegated robes, a rather pushy agenda, and a complete intolerance for intolerance...   

[Messier-31]

My POV in other words:

 

• if I meet 3 Vailians in the course of the entire game, then cool, I've met some Vailians
• if I meet 100 Vailians in the course of the entire game, then cool, them mates are seriously into seafaring

Now:

• if I meet 3 gay characters in the course of the entire game, then cools, I've met some gay characters
• if I meet 100 gay characters in the course of the entire game... it will be odd

 

Luckily Obsidian knows how to handle their Veronicas, Arcades and Menahas smoothly.

[FlintlockJazz]

You know what gets my goat going?  How everyone likes to talk about Social Justice Warriors but what about the Social Justice Wizards?  Social Justice Rogues?  Clerics?  Nothing!  And they are the most fundamental classes too, what about Paladins, Rangers, Monks, Druids, and Bards??!   This is an outrage! 

 

And when the hell did we have to start using the term SJW?  Back in my day it was called White Knighting and was perfectly fine!  Now we have a three word term that is so long we have to acronym it!  I mean, how you are meant to verb it properly?  Damn kids!  Get off my lawn!

 

Where am I again?  Stop telling me to take my meds!  Beat you with my cane I will! 

Edited January 11, 2018 by FlintlockJazz

[HooAmEye]

We need an SJW Inquisition faction with variegated robes, a rather pushy agenda, and a complete intolerance for intolerance... 

Thanks D.W. Griffth

[rjshae]

My POV in other words:

 

• if I meet 3 Vailians in the course of the entire game, then cool, I've met some Vailians
• if I meet 100 Vailians in the course of the entire game, then cool, them mates are seriously into seafaring

Now:

• if I meet 3 gay characters in the course of the entire game, then cools, I've met some gay characters
• if I meet 100 gay characters in the course of the entire game... it will be odd

 

Luckily Obsidian knows how to handle their Veronicas, Arcades and Menahas smoothly.

 

The last case is where they throw in a Friggin' in the Riggin' dance episode.

[smjjames]

You know what gets my goat going?  How everyone likes to talk about Social Justice Warriors but what about the Social Justice Wizards?  Social Justice Rogues?  Clerics?  Nothing!  And they are the most fundamental classes too, what about Paladins, Rangers, Monks, Druids, and Bards??!   This is an outrage! 

 

And when the hell did we have to start using the term SJW?  Back in my day it was called White Knighting and was perfectly fine!  Now we have a three word term that is so long we have to acronym it!  I mean, how you are meant to verb it properly?  Damn kids!  Get off my lawn!

 

Where am I again?  Stop telling me to take my meds!  Beat you with my cane I will! 

 

Lol...

 

As was said earlier, the only content that was removed was a backer thing, though I don't know the specifics behind what was said.

 

Given how they took things seriously like the Orlan racism, I fully expect them to take issues like gay romance (if that's what the OP is getting at with SJWs), etc, seriously.

 

They even had a relatively light touch on gay/lesbian stuff in White March and Iselmyrs antics with appearing to hit on both Kana and Pallegina.

[Jaget80]

We need an RWNJ Inquisition faction with variegated robes, a rather regressive agenda, and a complete intolerance so satisfy the alt-right  

[Juodas Varnas]

We need an RWNJ Inquisition faction with variegated robes, a rather regressive agenda, and a complete intolerance so satisfy the alt-right  

How i feel most SJW and 'alt-right' discussions go.

[MortyTheGobbo]

My POV in other words:

 

• if I meet 3 Vailians in the course of the entire game, then cool, I've met some Vailians
• if I meet 100 Vailians in the course of the entire game, then cool, them mates are seriously into seafaring

Now:

• if I meet 3 gay characters in the course of the entire game, then cools, I've met some gay characters
• if I meet 100 gay characters in the course of the entire game... it will be odd

 

Luckily Obsidian knows how to handle their Veronicas, Arcades and Menahas smoothly.

 

Statistically speaking, it's not terribly likely to survive a Biawac and then just happen to run into the leader of the Leaden Key going about sinister business. High fantasy RPGs have never exactly run on what's statistically likely to happen.

[smjjames]

 

We need an RWNJ Inquisition faction with variegated robes, a rather regressive agenda, and a complete intolerance so satisfy the alt-right  

How i feel most SJW and 'alt-right' discussions go.

 

 

I'm just gonna note that the 'spider' on Spiderman's costume there has six legs rather than eight and looks more like a tick or maybe a beetle than a spider.

[Ninjamestari]

Statistically speaking, it's not terribly likely to survive a Biawac and then just happen to run into the leader of the Leaden Key going about sinister business. High fantasy RPGs have never exactly run on what's statistically likely to happen.

 

That's a false equivalency and you know it. Let's make every single character a unicorn that shoots rainbow-lazors out of their ass since we're already at "it's high fantasy, reality is out of the window and we can do anything we want". Hell, if that is the approach we take, why not make a game with ZERO gay people hm? I mean, it could be a fantasy world where homosexuality doesn't even exist. Or if anything goes with the fantasy, why not make a proper juvenile male fantasy where every single female character becomes a sex-slave to the player? The vast majority of the target audience consists of men after all, and you'd be surprised how many women are into that S&M domination stuff.

[smjjames]

 

Statistically speaking, it's not terribly likely to survive a Biawac and then just happen to run into the leader of the Leaden Key going about sinister business. High fantasy RPGs have never exactly run on what's statistically likely to happen.

 

That's a false equivalency and you know it. Let's make every single character a unicorn that shoots rainbow-lazors out of their ass since we're already at "it's high fantasy, reality is out of the window and we can do anything we want". Hell, if that is the approach we take, why not make a game with ZERO gay people hm? I mean, it could be a fantasy world where homosexuality doesn't even exist. Or if anything goes with the fantasy, why not make a proper juvenile male fantasy where every single female character becomes a sex-slave to the player? The vast majority of the target audience consists of men after all, and you'd be surprised how many women are into that S&M domination stuff.

 

 

Because they aren't going for an X rated game?

[injurai]

 

My POV in other words:

 

• if I meet 3 Vailians in the course of the entire game, then cool, I've met some Vailians
• if I meet 100 Vailians in the course of the entire game, then cool, them mates are seriously into seafaring

Now:

• if I meet 3 gay characters in the course of the entire game, then cools, I've met some gay characters
• if I meet 100 gay characters in the course of the entire game... it will be odd

 

Luckily Obsidian knows how to handle their Veronicas, Arcades and Menahas smoothly.

 

Statistically speaking, it's not terribly likely to survive a Biawac and then just happen to run into the leader of the Leaden Key going about sinister business. High fantasy RPGs have never exactly run on what's statistically likely to happen.

 

 

Fiction and fantasy is often about the unlikely or fated person which happened to come up against the unlikely. That doens't mean they will continue coming up against purely the unlikely, in a world that for the story to work is mostly filled with likely things.

 

It works for MMOs where everyone is the unlikely hero, and the rare person is serving or breeding.

 

This is statistically speaking. I suppose at least once though someone will roll nothing but D20s for a campaign, but it'd actually become quite a trying campaign after a while.

[Juodas Varnas]

 

This is statistically speaking. I suppose at least once though someone will roll nothing but D20s for a campaign, but it'd actually become quite a trying campaign after a while.

 

You can easily roll nothing but D20s if you load the dice.

Though people might get suspicious after a while.

[Baramos]

We know Deadfire will contain party members who are openly non-heterosexual. The setting already contains people corresponding to different real-world ethnicities, rather than everyone being European. The themes of racism and sexism have been brought up, though admittedly the racism is entirely fictional - Orlan are discriminated against, rather than people of any given skin colour. But the issues Pallegina dealt with back home, or the nonsense Durance spouts on a regular basis, are much closer to reality.

 

So... according to the standards of most people who fret about "SJW writing", I'd say the game is already a lost cause. But it seems the goalposts have shifted, and the mere inclusion of diverse characters and viewpoints is no longer "pandering", whatever that even means to begin with. So what exactly are you worried will happen? I'd like to see some concrete examples for once.

 

I don't think we'd get more than one non-heterosexual party member. Sawyer said that not every party member will be romance-able and I don't see them locking the few romance-able party members behind a non-heterosexual romance.

 

 

Do you guys think that Deadfire will be speckled with rices of social justice/liberal writing? I remember the first game, when Obsidian was forced to remove the joke or some content, iirc?

 

I think that maybe even Obsidian would introduce characters wherewhich would appeal to the SJW audiences, rather than upset it. This is fair game for their new game, I personally don't see a matter either way but was curious for your thought.

 

Nope. It will probably be more or less the same as the first one.

[injurai]

 

This is statistically speaking. I suppose at least once though someone will roll nothing but D20s for a campaign, but it'd actually become quite a trying campaign after a while.

 

You can easily roll nothing but D20s if you load the dice.

Though people might get suspicious after a while.

 

Well, by that measure, one could easily load their fictional narrative.

 

They just better not be shocked, nor resentful, when people don't find their work compelling.

[MortyTheGobbo]

 

 

My POV in other words:

 

• if I meet 3 Vailians in the course of the entire game, then cool, I've met some Vailians
• if I meet 100 Vailians in the course of the entire game, then cool, them mates are seriously into seafaring

Now:

• if I meet 3 gay characters in the course of the entire game, then cools, I've met some gay characters
• if I meet 100 gay characters in the course of the entire game... it will be odd

 

Luckily Obsidian knows how to handle their Veronicas, Arcades and Menahas smoothly.

 

Statistically speaking, it's not terribly likely to survive a Biawac and then just happen to run into the leader of the Leaden Key going about sinister business. High fantasy RPGs have never exactly run on what's statistically likely to happen.

 

 

Fiction and fantasy is often about the unlikely or fated person which happened to come up against the unlikely. That doens't mean they will continue coming up against purely the unlikely, in a world that for the story to work is mostly filled with likely things.

 

It works for MMOs where everyone is the unlikely hero, and the rare person is serving or breeding.

 

This is statistically speaking. I suppose at least once though someone will roll nothing but D20s for a campaign, but it'd actually become quite a trying campaign after a while.

 

 

It wasn't a very good comparison, I suppose. My point is that insisting on statistical probability when it comes to the number of LGBT characters in a game is misplaced at best. Statistics concerning the percentage of population who are of any given orientation are sketchy, because of how many people are unaware of theirs or won't admit it. And it's not like they're spread out evenly, anymore than any other trait is.

 

In other words, let the writers include however many of them they feel like. Meeting a hundred gay people in a game is pretty ridiculous hyperbole, anyway. Adding more than two is already looked askance at.

Edited January 11, 2018 by MortyTheGobbo

[Valmy]

Do you guys think that Deadfire will be speckled with rices of social justice/liberal writing? I remember the first game, when Obsidian was forced to remove the joke or some content, iirc?

 

I think that maybe even Obsidian would introduce characters wherewhich would appeal to the SJW audiences, rather than upset it. This is fair game for their new game, I personally don't see a matter either way but was curious for your thought.

 

They did not remove any content. My God how long is this stupid lie going to continue? It was some obscure backer thing.

 

Also people tend to be better at ignoring the internet lynch mobs these days than they did back in 2015.

[SonicMage117]

Here, a video on the subject:

 

"The writer was working on content but forced to leave."

Edited January 11, 2018 by SonicMage117

[smjjames]

I guess Firedorn Lightbringer was the backer content? Backer content =/= writing for Obsidian.