Politics Thread: Silicon Valley Edition

[Pidesco]

The problem with voter ID requirements is for the people that work multiple jobs and/or have long working hours. That, coupled with short opening hours for the ID offices, and long commute times to reach those offices means that some people can't get IDs even if they want to. Regardless of the number of people who are affected by all of this, voter ID measures affect mostly the very poor, the ones that depend the most on the government to get by.

 

Note that, all that being said, I'm not sure this is much of a problem simply by itself, because the people that have very low wages/education levels, usually don't vote anyway.

 

For reference, apparently more than 7 million people are working two jobs in the US.

[Volourn]

"The problem with voter ID requirements is for the people that work multiple jobs and/or have long working hours."

 

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

 

 

 

"For reference, apparently more than 7 million people are working two jobs in the US."

 

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA x2.

 

 

Seriously, the crying is ridiculous.

[smjjames]

It still doesn't help when one party has repeatedly used it, and even stated their motive as such, for voter suppression. In your countries (other than the US), has one or more of your political parties been accused of voter suppression or even caught doing so?

 

I've said repeatedly that one party actually has been using ID cards and stuff for voter suppression and theres even a history of minorities being disenfranchised via voter suppresion methods. The point I'm trying to make is that there is a whole history of it happening, and with that, nobody should be surprised minorities and others are resistant to things like that.

Edited December 15, 2017 by smjjames

[Gfted1]

Illinois DMV hours of operation:

 

Tuesday
8:00am - 5:30pm
Wednesday
8:00am - 5:30pm
Thursday
8:00am - 5:30pm
Friday
8:00am - 5:30pm
Saturday
7:30am - 12:00pm

 

 

Open 42.5 hours a week but that may differ in other states? Saturday is always a zoo there.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I didn't say they should be charged.

If you are arguing that an ID should be required to vote, your are arguing that people should be charged by the state to vote because state IDs cost money. It might not seem like a lot of money to you, but for families living close to poverty, which is half of America factoring out welfare, it's a lot of money. This is compounded when you factor in that places to get IDs are open during the normal working hours these people are working, which further prevents them from getting their IDs. This would be a non-issue if IDs were easy to get and free, but that isn't the case.

just find it ironic that the left leaning folks who have no problem imposing the indignities of a heavy handed government on people waffle on this one minor thing. After all if you think the government should be our God and master in all other things why not this too?

I assume it's because we freedom hating commies consider citizens being able to participate in elections more important than ISPs being able to throttle sites and charge higher prices for the same stuff.

[Zoraptor]

Anglo countries tend to hate compulsory ID cards with an absolute passion, and an ID card to vote is pretty much compulsory. The Brittyland government, otherwise a love story to Orwellian Big Brotherism, has struggled for decades to get a compulsory ID card approved, and it still isn't.

 

The problem with ID cards for voting is that the card may be secure from one end when issued but in order to be secure at the other end you need special equipment to check validity, even if it's only a computer to input a code into. That costs money and requires training and in many countries (no idea about the US) would require stringent security vetting of anyone using it. Our driver's licenses are theoretically very secure but fakes are frequently used by underage drinkers to get into bars and the like here; to a cop with a reader they're obviously fake but to a random bouncer not so much. I can't imagine that anyone would be too keen on having police check IDs prior to voting though.

 

The fundamental trouble though is that anything that makes voting more secure also makes it far more easy for the government or private companies to monitor who is voting, when, where and potentially for whom as well. It also potentially makes it easier rather than harder for the government (or whoever does the monitoring or counts the votes) itself to manipulate results especially if combined with 'black box' computerised/ mechanical voting systems rather than paper votes.

 

Most student ID's don't seem to be that difficult to mimic if one has the right equipment.

Most IDs of any type aren't hard to mimic, on the surface, and if you have the right equipment. Passports are usually the hardest by a very large margin which is also why they are by far the most expensive as well. As above, they may be secure on one end but you need to be able to check their validity on the other end for them to really be secure.

[ShadySands]

Illinois DMV hours of operation:

 

 

Tuesday

8:00am - 5:30pm

Wednesday

8:00am - 5:30pm

Thursday

8:00am - 5:30pm

Friday

8:00am - 5:30pm

Saturday

7:30am - 12:00pm

 

 

Open 42.5 hours a week but that may differ in other states? Saturday is always a zoo there.

 

You also don't have any voter ID laws. They tend to be in more prevalent in redder states

Edited December 15, 2017 by ShadySands

[Volourn]

Suck it up. Get voter ID. It isn't complex and it is insulting to poor people to suggest they can't handle it. And, yes, there are all sorts of accusations in my country.  Politial parties always accuse the other side of 'cheating'.  

 

It doesn't matter what the 'motivation' is. Get the ID required. If you feel the way to get it is unfair or is too costly then  work on a way to make it more affordable but to say 'no ID required' is ridiculous.

 

But, hey, let us here in Kanada allow a bunch of Amerikans to come here without any Kanadian ID and decide our election for us. Right/ NO ID REQUIRED.

 

 

LMAO

[smjjames]

@shadysands: That sentence is kind of self contradictory, but yeah, theres a reason why bluer states tend not to do it and redder states tend to. edit: Then again, the new quote gives context.

 

I realize that American politics and history may be confusing and nonsensical for some foriegners, but that's just the way it is.

Edited December 15, 2017 by smjjames

[Gfted1]

You also don't have any voter ID laws. They tend to be in more prevalent in redder states

Yeah, I should have quoted Pidesco. I was responding to this:

 

That, coupled with short opening hours for the ID offices, and long commute times to reach those offices means that some people can't get IDs even if they want to.

And there dozens(?) of facilities in this state but "long commute times" is subjective I guess.

[smjjames]

On the tax stuff, Congress has released their tax conference report (article has a link to the whole 1000+ page document, if anybody is interested) and are ready to vote on it and pass it next week.

 

I had also read an article a week or two ago that some people in Europe were complaining that the tax 'reform' bill would make it harder to compete against American companies. Didn't give any details how though and it sounded more like people being upset about the status quo being changed.

[Epaminondas]

The tax plan looks like it might make it so I no longer itemize. Having had my home for some time, I usually just take the standard deduction anyway, but it's close enough depending on charitable contributions and the like that I sometimes end up itemizing. Being middle class, I can tell you that if the tax bill has everything in it as I understand it, then we will get more of our taxes back. A lot more. I can also say that, if the bill is as I understand it, friends who are bitching about this bill being a tax increase on them (good God, do these people even read anything other than leftist blogs?) will benefit greatly. A couple of them maybe not. Depends on things like what happens with medical expenses. I do have one friend who has a civil engineering company and a big house who might end up eating it depending on what happens with SALT. *Probably* not, but he just bought a house and I expect it was in excess of a million. That might put him over the edge. Other than a cancer survivor friend and a 'rich' friend, I honestly don't think that anyone in my circle of middle class friends anyone will not see a tax decrease and some of them substantially. The news about the tax plan hasn't just been fake. There have been outright lies about it. Problem with that is that when it takes effect and people find out it doesn't harm and, even more, they benefit, it will come back to haunt people resorting to deception about it. Stick with "it helps big corporations and rich people more than you!" That's been a winning argument and, at the very least, while it's kind of deceptive, it's technically true in a few senses.

[Elerond]

In my understanding biggest problem in voter ID systems is not id requirement per se, but sloppy bureaucratic work from decades ago, which is something that nobody seems to have interest to fix.

 

To fight voter fraud and solve these constant id issue problems 

Establish federal register for citizen which will have everybody's birth certificates and all the possible changes that there come to it during person's life, like change of a name, state where person lives, social security number or some other essential information (like person dying).

Moving all the existing stuff to above mentioned register

Creating federal id card which is valid in every state

Making it so that one can get above mentioned id from federal authority which can be found in (nearly) every county like post office in feasible price.

 

And if states add automatic voter registration in the mix then voter fraud should be quite difficult and only thing that prevents people voting is not being able to go to vote (including early voting by post or such) for some reason.

[smjjames]

On paper, that seems like a good way to fix the voter fraud problem, however, it runs right smack into politics and the attitude Americans (and Anglo countries in general) have against the government recording citizen information. I know theres a lot that we already give the government, but it's the same kind of attitude/resistance that prevents a federal gun registry.

 

I don't think a federal ID card is needed because a state ID will work in any other state, it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

 

And then theres the whole sloppy bureauacracy stuff, if you don't fix bureauacracy problems, then doing all of what you suggested won't help.

 

@epam: I agree with you in that the tax 'reform' isn't reform at all and is just tax cuts for the rich, and yes, it'll come back to bite them in the arse.

Edited December 16, 2017 by smjjames

[Elerond]

Federal ID card was not because there isn't other ID cards that work in all the states, but to make ID card which federal authorities can give out. I am not sure if federal authorities can give out state IDs.

 

 

In other news

 

Trump administration officials are forbidding officials at the nation’s top public health agency from using a list of seven words or phrases — including “fetus” and “transgender” — in any official documents being prepared for next year’s budget.

Policy analysts at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta were told of the list of forbidden words at a meeting Thursday with senior CDC officials who oversee the budget, according to an analyst who took part in the 90-minute briefing. The forbidden words are: “vulnerable,” “entitlement,” “diversity,” “transgender,” “fetus,” “evidence-based” and “science-based.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/cdc-gets-list-of-forbidden-words-fetus-transgender-diversity/2017/12/15/f503837a-e1cf-11e7-89e8-edec16379010_story.html?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.205aabe84b26

[redneckdevil]

The problem with voter ID requirements is for the people that work multiple jobs and/or have long working hours. That, coupled with short opening hours for the ID offices, and long commute times to reach those offices means that some people can't get IDs even if they want to. Regardless of the number of people who are affected by all of this, voter ID measures affect mostly the very poor, the ones that depend the most on the government to get by.

 

Note that, all that being said, I'm not sure this is much of a problem simply by itself, because the people that have very low wages/education levels, usually don't vote anyway.

 

For reference, apparently more than 7 million people are working two jobs in the US.

This actually applied to me. A few years back I worked mon-fri 9-6 and needed a new drivers license. Couldn't ask off work not was my lunch break long enough for me to do so.

Know what I did? I went online and had one mailed to me. Paid for it and used an old picture they had in the system at midnight.

Didn't have to go inside the DMV and did it when I could do.

Blessed internet making things so much easier for everyone and ruining excuses.

[Epaminondas]

 

The problem with voter ID requirements is for the people that work multiple jobs and/or have long working hours. That, coupled with short opening hours for the ID offices, and long commute times to reach those offices means that some people can't get IDs even if they want to. Regardless of the number of people who are affected by all of this, voter ID measures affect mostly the very poor, the ones that depend the most on the government to get by.

 

Note that, all that being said, I'm not sure this is much of a problem simply by itself, because the people that have very low wages/education levels, usually don't vote anyway.

 

For reference, apparently more than 7 million people are working two jobs in the US.

This actually applied to me. A few years back I worked mon-fri 9-6 and needed a new drivers license. Couldn't ask off work not was my lunch break long enough for me to do so.

Know what I did? I went online and had one mailed to me. Paid for it and used an old picture they had in the system at midnight.

Didn't have to go inside the DMV and did it when I could do.

Blessed internet making things so much easier for everyone and ruining excuses.

 

Moreover, I bet, and correct me if I'm wrong, the "oh ****" moment wasn't you couldn't vote. It was probably that you couldn't drive, cash checks, buy a beer?

 

@smjjames: I literally laughed out loud. Kudos, young man! I tip my hat.

[Hurlshort]

"The problem with voter ID requirements is for the people that work multiple jobs and/or have long working hours."

 

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

 

 

 

"For reference, apparently more than 7 million people are working two jobs in the US."

 

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA x2.

 

 

Seriously, the crying is ridiculous.

People shouldn't be allowed to vote without ID!

 

WAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

[Gfted1]

Imo, taxes need to be greatly increased. Not for the lowest earners of course, but middle class and up should be taxed more heavily. We cant run a deficit for eternity. Plus, we have a drone army to build.

[smjjames]

I've heard that some people think it's entirely possible to run a deficit for eternity

 

Also, wages really have to increase, higher taxes don't help if nobody can pay them.

[Gfted1]

Really, imo, our "taxes" are a joke. And then I get a ginourmous refund every year. I'm middle class all the way and even I'm willing to bite more bullet if it help the country. I'm even 40% warmed to UHC! dafuq.

[smjjames]

The big gripe with the so called tax reform is that it's a massive tax cut for the rich and for corporations and hardly one for middle class, and even a tax raise in some cases, plus a massive tax raise on the middle class at the end of 10 years (because it expires) while the rich still get to keep theirs.

 

The Republicans are also hellbent on trying to make trickle-down-economics work, which from what I've heard, is completely bogus and has never worked.

 

You know what also can't keep going forever? the stock market. I can't help but feel like the adage of 'the bigger/higher they are, the harder they fall' is going to get applied sooner or later.

[Gfted1]

It will never see 10 years. In 3.5 years it will be replaced.

 

Bitcoins. Wth. How do I get them?

[smjjames]

Or 7.5 years if Trump wins a second term, and that's if he doesn't do anything dumb in the interim to get himself impeached.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Bitcoins. Wth. How do I get them?

Sell drugs on the internet.