How does the new Resolve resolve anything? :)

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

 

Thank you. So the stumbling block seems to be a number of hybrids, as well as much of cipher and druid in part? 

Perhaps you could add a "specific-hybride-unique" talent that you "must" take early on in the hybrids that really got boned this way.

Then cipher and druid need to get a few bones thrown at them as well.

It wouldn't be that hard to fix, no?

 

 

 

I don't see a way to fix it because anything you give single-class ciphers to "Even it out," would end up making multi-class ciphers ridiculously overpowered. For example, if you gave Soul Whip a bunch of extra weapon damage to balance out the Might losses, then melee classes start taking Cipher as a second class just for the soul whip damage boost, and just ignore the cipher damage powers.

[CENIC]

Reposting from another thread:

 

I like the idea of bringing Perception and Concentration back to attributes. It helped balance out their value.

 

I'm still tweaking my opinion on what should be done with attributes:

 

Strength (STR) - +3% Melee Weapon/Bow Damage, +2 Fortitude

Constitution (CON) - +5% Health, +2 Fortitude

Dexterity (DEX) - +3% Action Speed, +2 Reflex

Perception (PER) - +1 Accuracy, +2 Reflex

Intellect (INT) - +3% Spell Damage/Magical Implement Weapon Damage/Healing, +2 Will

Resolve (RES) - +6% Area of Effect, +5% Inspiration Duration (Received/Cast), +5% Affliction Duration (Cast), -5% Affliction Duration (Received), +2 Will

 

Deflection should be removed from attributes and applied to armor (heavier armor has higher deflection)

If it HAS to be tied to an attribute it should be CON. It would make DEX too OP.

 

Firearms (and maybe crossbows/arbalests?) will not be affected by Strength. Their base damage and penetration should be higher to compensate, but they take longer to fire/reload.

 

With this spread, STR/INT become dump stats unless you are a hybrid character. Characters focused solely on weapon damage/spell damage will still be able to hit higher damage values than characters who want to do both. Not sure how to solve that problem, honestly.

[AndreaColombo]

Deflection on armor would result in NWN-like awkwardness, where a heavier armor would make you better at deftly avoiding incoming blows.

 

IMO armor is better with AR or DR.

[Aramintai]

Deflection on armor would result in NWN-like awkwardness, where a heavier armor would make you better at deftly avoiding incoming blows.

Well, at least in POE heavy armor also gets big recovery time.

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

 

Thank you. So the stumbling block seems to be a number of hybrids, as well as much of cipher and druid in part? 

Perhaps you could add a "specific-hybride-unique" talent that you "must" take early on in the hybrids that really got boned this way.

Then cipher and druid need to get a few bones thrown at them as well.

It wouldn't be that hard to fix, no?

 

 

 

I don't see a way to fix it because anything you give single-class ciphers to "Even it out," would end up making multi-class ciphers ridiculously overpowered. For example, if you gave Soul Whip a bunch of extra weapon damage to balance out the Might losses, then melee classes start taking Cipher as a second class just for the soul whip damage boost, and just ignore the cipher damage powers.

 

Aha! But then only have that soul whip damage ability available for single class ciphers.

Or for flexibility: Make it half or something, if multi-classed. These things merely require clever tinkering.

Edited November 29, 2017 by IndiraLightfoot

[JerekKruger]

Aha! But then only have that soul whip damage ability available for single class ciphers.

Or for flexibility: Make it half or something, if multi-classed. These things merely require clever tinkering.

 

Or leave Might as it was and buff Resolve somehow else. Adding it these sorts of little fixes just demonstrates that the original change is bad.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Well, like Josh wrote on Twitter, the change did address a pretty serious problem with Resolve and some bad balance in the attribute system, so it needed a top-down adjustment. These tiny bottom-up fixes are easier to slip in and adjust as needed, no?

[theBalthazar]

Cipher

 

25 % Core Ability. (+5 % base damage ?)

 

+20 % With passive (no change)

 

Replace the 24 % of might ? Or it is not enough ?

 

24 / 2 = 12 for each pole (Round to 10 %...). Again divided by two, because this is base damage. (at the hoof... : p)

 

So ref number : 5 % for base damage. 10 % for multiplicative damage.

 

--------------

 

Druid ? Boost of 10 % of damage of all shift ?

10 % Boost for spells ?

 

----

 

Paladin

 

Flame of devotion +10 % fire damage

Heal of hand + 10 % ?

 

etc ?

Edited November 29, 2017 by theBalthazar

[Gromnir]

 

 

 stat choices should be painful.  the intention were/is to make all stats useful to a build, so lowering a stat should have an obvious cost.  so, good on being boned.

 

 

Frankly, Sawyer want so much control the viable/optimal point, it is impossible to miss a character, even with a 3 in recommended stat.

 

So, it is not completely an argument.

 

There is a very clear loss for paladins, druids and cipher. One can not deny it. A quantitative loss, you who love numbers at 18 Might :  24 % if you are focus on Spells side.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, Gromnir's making a feelings argument in response to a mathematical issue.  

 

You could make every stat choice feel meaningful by taking away all the discretionary starting points so that if you wanted any stat higher than 10 you had to drop a different one down, too. Think of how hard the choices would be!

 

Wait, even better idea: only one ability point gained every other level. Half as many power choices! So much meaning felt!

 

is hardly feel.  given the linear nature o' stats in poe/deadfire compared to the ie games for example, the stats is less significant.  sure, the stats still have value, but people is much over-focused on stats 'cause o' the feel they carry over from previous games.  again, as noted 'bove, all o' our pc builds is built with approx the same stats, cause non-optimized stats hardly punishes a player playing even on the highest difficulties. Gromnir has actual played a deadfire cipher with the same stats we showed we use for a priest.  works fine... save for the penetration issue.

 

so show us the mathematics o' how a cipher will be unable to actual perform in deadfire. am gonna need you show us the math o' how a few points moved 'tween stats is gonna cripple the cipher, 'cause actual experience with a cipher, played as if he were already boned, tells us the opposite, and we watched combat logs to see numbers verify that feel.

 

is a bit like the imagined need for weapon talents for builds current doing laudable weapon damage and weapon and shield talents for tanks already roll-stomping in the deadfire beta.  the change to resolve removes a dump stat.  fine. great.  such is the goal we should be hoping for.  if folks is saying the best spread o' stats for a class is pretty much 12s 'cross the board, how is that a problem as long as the class is still viable.  the optimizers has always been over concerned 'bout the starting stats spreads.  heck, even boeroer has admitted the poe stats is less decisive a character development issue than most optimizers believe.

 

as an aside, whatever problems the cipher has is not stat related but is a penetration issue. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[theBalthazar]

Gromnir has actual played a deadfire cipher with the same stats we showed we use for a priest.  works fine... save for the penetration issue.

 

 

 

Played yes... But honnestly ? You find the cipher particulary efficient ? Factually I understand. Compared to other classes...

 

And on top of that, you back stab him with a nerf ? : p

 

In most of tiers list, Cipher has the donkey's cap (Great last)

 

This will just encourage people to truncate the potential of the three classes. Druid ? Wes but without spells, or only buff spells. Paladin ? Only strength side and passives. Cipher ? Even more problematic because it's an intricate operation. One feeds the other.

Edited November 29, 2017 by theBalthazar

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

 

 

so show us the mathematics o' how a cipher will be unable to actual perform in deadfire. am gonna need you show us the math o' how a few points moved 'tween stats is gonna cripple the cipher, 'cause actual experience with a cipher, played as if he were already boned, tells us the opposite, and we watched combat logs to see numbers verify that feel.

 

 

 

 

I did that in the other thread already (or was it in this one?)

 

Roughly half of all cipher powers in the current beta are damage powers that will be based on Resolve in the new system. That of course includes a lot of "crowd control" powers too -- as a "hybrid" class, cipher powers overlap.

 

What this change means, therefore, in numerical terms, is that ciphers can no longer consider Resolve a "dump stat" -- you can't just take it to 3 and move on; even if you're playing a mostly-pure CC cipher (inadvisable right now anyway for other reasons), enough of your powers will have a damage component that you'd be dramatically reducing your effectiveness if you ignore it. That in turn means that those seven points aren't added to a different stat. 

 

Seven points in Strength is a 21% physical damage bonus; seven points in Dex is a 21% action speed bonus (which is also functionally a damage bonus); either one of those taken down means a corresponding loss in damage dealt, which means a corresponding loss in focus gained, which means a corresponding loss in power list. Imagine if Wizards suddenly lost a fifth of their spell slots per fight -- that's what a 20% reduction in focus is for a cipher.

 

  Seven points lost in Con wouldn't be a big deal, but most cipher builds are already taking Con down to between 4 and 6 anyway; any lower and you get oneshotted. Seven points lost in Intelligence is a dramatic reduction to power durations and areas of effect, horrible for a caster. Seven points lost in Perception, well, the math gets complicated, but given the new higher miss rates and the fact that higher miss rates hurt ciphers doubly (since it reduces their ability to gain focus AND their ability to cast effectively), reducing perception is even less of an option than reducing Might or Dex.

 

 

In short, this change basically means you have to pick a core class function that you're bad at. Either you're bad at dealing damage with weapons (and hence bad at everything else due to lack of focus), or you're bad at casting powers (because they'll miss constantly, or have miniscule durations / areas of effect, or do minimal damage). 

 

 

Incidentally, the fact that you're pointing to penetration issues as the sole cause of cipher problems right now tells me you haven't played ciphers much in the beta. Penetration's one issue out of many (and one that's solvable in the right party, in a way the other issues aren't). Bigger issues right now are lack of grazing, the move to per-encounter casting on all other classes making the Focus gain system a relative liability rather than an advantage, very restricted power selection due to the need to take both powers and passive abilities, reduced focus gain rate from 35% to 25% vs the prior game, etc. This change comes on top of all those. 

Edited November 29, 2017 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[Insidous]

I don't get why so many people focus on balance here. You can still buff parts of ciphers you know? What the stats do is a fundamental design decision and that's what should be looked at.

 

If they want to get rid of a dump stat they didn't succeed because most casters will skip strength now, but I think for the overall design and immersion, that comes with stats, this is a change for the better. I love playing priests and it was always weird to me how they didn't need resolve at all. Paladins now have the choice if they want to be a strong high damage zealot or the resolute defensive healer.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Yeah, only broken stuff needs to be fixed, the balance can be pretty rough at the edges.

[theBalthazar]

on't get why so many people focus on balance here.

 

 

It is not a balance focus.

 

Josh said it was for "no bad build" rather than no dump stat. Ok, no Problem.

 

But in a sense Wizard + Ranger is now not the best build...

 

Max Differential : 45 % (24 % + 21 %) Resolve 3 Strengh 18

 

--------

 

With a Ranger + Fighter

 

Max Differential : 0 % (All in Strength) Resolve 3 Strength 18

 

Perhaps, it is not a bad build... But it look like...

Edited November 29, 2017 by theBalthazar

[Ancelor]

Deflection on armor would result in NWN-like awkwardness, where a heavier armor would make you better at deftly avoiding incoming blows.

 

IMO armor is better with AR or DR.

Dragon age origins had it quite right.

Armor = DR

Shieled = Deflection (defense)

Additional dexterity = additional Deflection (defense) which makes sense from a mechanical standpoint

[JerekKruger]

Dragon age origins had it quite right.

Armor = DR

Shieled = Deflection (defense)

Additional dexterity = additional Deflection (defense) which makes sense from a mechanical standpoint

 

That's essentially Pillars' system, except Resolve rather than Dexterity increases Deflection.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

 

Dragon age origins had it quite right.

Armor = DR

Shieled = Deflection (defense)

Additional dexterity = additional Deflection (defense) which makes sense from a mechanical standpoint

 

That's essentially Pillars' system, except Resolve rather than Dexterity increases Deflection.

 

 

 

Wasn't Deflection originally on Might and Dex, and it just got moved to Resolve later to try to achieve some minimal usefulness for the stat?

[Insidous]

 

on't get why so many people focus on balance here.

 

 

It is not a balance focus.

 

Josh said it was for "no bad build" rather than no dump stat. Ok, no Problem.

 

But in a sense Wizard + Ranger is now not the best build...

 

Max Differential : 45 % (24 % + 21 %) Resolve 3 Strengh 18

 

--------

 

With a Ranger + Fighter

 

Max Differential : 0 % (All in Strength) Resolve 3 Strength 18

 

Perhaps, it is not a bad build... But it look like...

 

 

High strength wizard-ranger:

cast Kalakoth's minor blights, do a accuracy buffed wounding shot and watch them explode

 

High resolve wizard-ranger:

Focus on pet talents and nuke spells and have a decent buffer while you are casting from behind

 

There are tons of possibilities! 

But yeah there will be bad multicalssing builds with or without this change; that's given I think with such a complex system and this is why there is a warning before you choose.

[JerekKruger]

Wasn't Deflection originally on Might and Dex, and it just got moved to Resolve later to try to achieve some minimal usefulness for the stat?

 

Maybe in the beta? By release it was on both Perception and Resolve, then later was removed from Perception and left solely on Resolve.

[Omeganova]

I don't get why so many people focus on balance here. You can still buff parts of ciphers you know? What the stats do is a fundamental design decision and that's what should be looked at.

 

If they want to get rid of a dump stat they didn't succeed because most casters will skip strength now, but I think for the overall design and immersion, that comes with stats, this is a change for the better. I love playing priests and it was always weird to me how they didn't need resolve at all. Paladins now have the choice if they want to be a strong high damage zealot or the resolute defensive healer.

Because it's not just Ciphers who are affected, and that a mathematically unbalanced game is not enjoyable for those who have to deal with it? Also you say you love playing Priests, but they are also one of the classes adversely effected by this change. Under this new change you will need Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence and Resolve, As opposed to Might, Dexterity and Intelligence of old.

 

The reason this is so bad is that Priests although not to the degree of Ciphers, still relied on their weapon. For a majority of their career their spells are about strengthening themselves and their allies. You don't think it's immersion breaking for a priest of Berath to absolutely suck with his greatsword because it was the only way for his spells to matter at all?

 

As i said in the previous thread lets take two statlines. This is with a Death Godlike who is a multiclass Priest of Berath/Devoted fighter to fully realized the RP of the Pallid Knight.

Old System

Might:18

Constitution:8

Dexterity:19

Perception:10

Intelligence:19

Resolve:3

 

New System

Might:14

Constitution:8

Dexterity:10

Perception:10

Intelligence:18

Resolve:17

 

That is a -5% loss in duration, -6% loss in AoE size, a -27% action speed , -18 Ref, -12% melee damage, -8 Fort

 

These are not little things, these are very large losses in overall efficiency. And if i were to run with a Cleric using the former statline just buffing myself and striding into combat. Not only will i have lost any ability to heal myself, but the Priest bonus spells per power level will be completely wasted as i have no ability to damage anything with them

[Insidous]

 

I don't get why so many people focus on balance here. You can still buff parts of ciphers you know? What the stats do is a fundamental design decision and that's what should be looked at.

 

If they want to get rid of a dump stat they didn't succeed because most casters will skip strength now, but I think for the overall design and immersion, that comes with stats, this is a change for the better. I love playing priests and it was always weird to me how they didn't need resolve at all. Paladins now have the choice if they want to be a strong high damage zealot or the resolute defensive healer.

Because it's not just Ciphers who are affected, and that a mathematically unbalanced game is not enjoyable for those who have to deal with it? Also you say you love playing Priests, but they are also one of the classes adversely effected by this change. Under this new change you will need Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence and Resolve, As opposed to Might, Dexterity and Intelligence of old.

 

The reason this is so bad is that Priests although not to the degree of Ciphers, still relied on their weapon. For a majority of their career their spells are about strengthening themselves and their allies. You don't think it's immersion breaking for a priest of Berath to absolutely suck with his greatsword because it was the only way for his spells to matter at all?

 

As i said in the previous thread lets take two statlines. This is with a Death Godlike who is a multiclass Priest of Berath/Devoted fighter to fully realized the RP of the Pallid Knight.

Old System

Might:18

Constitution:8

Dexterity:19

Perception:10

Intelligence:19

Resolve:3

 

New System

Might:14

Constitution:8

Dexterity:10

Perception:10

Intelligence:18

Resolve:17

 

That is a -5% loss in duration, -6% loss in AoE size, a -27% action speed , -18 Ref, -12% melee damage, -8 Fort

 

These are not little things, these are very large losses in overall efficiency. And if i were to run with a Cleric using the former statline just buffing myself and striding into combat. Not only will i have lost any ability to heal myself, but the Priest bonus spells per power level will be completely wasted as i have no ability to damage anything with them

 

 

 

It's fair to say that flexibility could very likely be nerfed, becuase it will indeed be taxing to focus on STR and RES, but these changes do not happen in a vacuum, I suppose. If we have 4 months of under powered priests, wizards, ciphers, etc. in the beta there will be changes.

 

They need to buff most casters regardless and I'm sure that after the balancing process we end up with a better game where it isn't mathematical optimal having 3 Resolve on that build. Dumping an attribute called Resolve on a priest in a rpg feels just about as bad as dumping strength on a barbarian 

Edited November 29, 2017 by Insidous

[Gromnir]

the math being shown is not actual in-game performance.  yes, you will do less power damage if you do not raise resolve, and the resolve gotta come from somewhere, so chances are your power damage decreases.  this is the same nostalgia nonsense as the talents thread.  compare to what you could do pre-change or pre-deafire is silly feel/nostalgia.  use math to actual show ineffectiveness current in deadfire.  dare you.  can self gimp by not taking piercing weapons and not taking piercing talent.  can act as if the cipher exists solo w/o a party.  actual in-game numbers is gonna show you quite clear how a deadfire cipher can get the job done.

 

half the cipher powers is damage dealers?  great.  that means the other half ain't.  use body attunement then pull out your modal enhanced greatsword affected by the cipher's increased penetration talent.  chunk. chunk. chunk. you not need ever use a damage power if you feel incapable o' building a cipher with higher resolve. but if you do decide you want weapon and power damage, then we got two words for those who says the new resolve means a cipher can't get the job done: grieving mother

 

https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Grieving_Mother

 

played in deadfire, grieving mother would be almost identical efficacious.  tell us you can't manage to build a deadfire cipher with a 12 in strength and resolve? how many o' us had grieving mother top party damage totals on potd runs?  only meaningful changes to cipher mechanics for deadfire is not actual cipher mechanics: penetration and casting time/recovery.  so build another grieving mother and give her penetrating weapons... and tell us how she don't get the job done.

 

but it won't be the same as your poe cipher, right?  

 

*snort*

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps we specific used greatsword example 'cause two-handed weapons is one o' the few groups working properly at the moment.  woulda' been unfair o' us to use dual wielding sabres or somesuch.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Gromnir

[Clean&Clear]

 

I don't get why so many people focus on balance here. You can still buff parts of ciphers you know? What the stats do is a fundamental design decision and that's what should be looked at.

 

If they want to get rid of a dump stat they didn't succeed because most casters will skip strength now, but I think for the overall design and immersion, that comes with stats, this is a change for the better. I love playing priests and it was always weird to me how they didn't need resolve at all. Paladins now have the choice if they want to be a strong high damage zealot or the resolute defensive healer.

Because it's not just Ciphers who are affected, and that a mathematically unbalanced game is not enjoyable for those who have to deal with it? Also you say you love playing Priests, but they are also one of the classes adversely effected by this change. Under this new change you will need Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence and Resolve, As opposed to Might, Dexterity and Intelligence of old.

 

The reason this is so bad is that Priests although not to the degree of Ciphers, still relied on their weapon. For a majority of their career their spells are about strengthening themselves and their allies. You don't think it's immersion breaking for a priest of Berath to absolutely suck with his greatsword because it was the only way for his spells to matter at all?

 

As i said in the previous thread lets take two statlines. This is with a Death Godlike who is a multiclass Priest of Berath/Devoted fighter to fully realized the RP of the Pallid Knight.

Old System

Might:18

Constitution:8

Dexterity:19

Perception:10

Intelligence:19

Resolve:3

 

New System

Might:14

Constitution:8

Dexterity:10

Perception:10

Intelligence:18

Resolve:17

 

That is a -5% loss in duration, -6% loss in AoE size, a -27% action speed , -18 Ref, -12% melee damage, -8 Fort

 

These are not little things, these are very large losses in overall efficiency. And if i were to run with a Cleric using the former statline just buffing myself and striding into combat. Not only will i have lost any ability to heal myself, but the Priest bonus spells per power level will be completely wasted as i have no ability to damage anything with them

 

 

Somewhere in the equation you accidentally missed the +26 will and +14 deflection he gets in return.

 

However, it doesn't matter anyway, because the important thing is not how the change affects specific classes or builds, because those can be changed afterwards. Stats' functionality is a fundamental design, and the goal to achieve here is for the system to provide as much meaningful and tough choices as possible, while reducing no-brainer choices, and this change probably comes closer to that. Specific classes and abilities can be tailored afterwards based on how stats work, not the other way around.

[Omeganova]

 

 

I don't get why so many people focus on balance here. You can still buff parts of ciphers you know? What the stats do is a fundamental design decision and that's what should be looked at.

 

If they want to get rid of a dump stat they didn't succeed because most casters will skip strength now, but I think for the overall design and immersion, that comes with stats, this is a change for the better. I love playing priests and it was always weird to me how they didn't need resolve at all. Paladins now have the choice if they want to be a strong high damage zealot or the resolute defensive healer.

Because it's not just Ciphers who are affected, and that a mathematically unbalanced game is not enjoyable for those who have to deal with it? Also you say you love playing Priests, but they are also one of the classes adversely effected by this change. Under this new change you will need Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence and Resolve, As opposed to Might, Dexterity and Intelligence of old.

 

The reason this is so bad is that Priests although not to the degree of Ciphers, still relied on their weapon. For a majority of their career their spells are about strengthening themselves and their allies. You don't think it's immersion breaking for a priest of Berath to absolutely suck with his greatsword because it was the only way for his spells to matter at all?

 

As i said in the previous thread lets take two statlines. This is with a Death Godlike who is a multiclass Priest of Berath/Devoted fighter to fully realized the RP of the Pallid Knight.

Old System

Might:18

Constitution:8

Dexterity:19

Perception:10

Intelligence:19

Resolve:3

 

New System

Might:14

Constitution:8

Dexterity:10

Perception:10

Intelligence:18

Resolve:17

 

That is a -5% loss in duration, -6% loss in AoE size, a -27% action speed , -18 Ref, -12% melee damage, -8 Fort

 

These are not little things, these are very large losses in overall efficiency. And if i were to run with a Cleric using the former statline just buffing myself and striding into combat. Not only will i have lost any ability to heal myself, but the Priest bonus spells per power level will be completely wasted as i have no ability to damage anything with them

 

 

 

It's fair to say that flexibility could very likely be nerfed, becuase it will indeed be taxing to focus on STR and RES, but these changes do not happen in a vacuum, I suppose. If we have 4 months of under powered priests, wizards, ciphers, etc. in the beta there will be changes.

 

They need to buff most casters regardless and I'm sure the after the balancing process we end up with a better game where it isn't mathematical optimal having 3 Resolve. Dumping an attribute called Resolve on a priest in a rpg feels just about as bad as dumping strength on a barbarian 

 

But at the end of the day this game just like DnD IS* a game about numbers,but that doesnt mean you still cant RP well. If an attribute does nothing to improve your ability to function in combat in a game where combat is a mainstay, then why are you taking it? Take say DnD 5th edition. Intelligence is pretty much the universal dump stat for anyone that is not a wizard or eldritch knight. Charisma does very little for any fighter, And Wisdom is the exclusive domain of Druids and Clerics but is often left at 10 by all classes because it affects passive perception.

 

Now lets take a standard 27 point buy to make a War Cleric, all stats start at 8 and stats cost as follows (9-1,10-2,11-3,12-4,13-5,14-7 and 15-9)

Str:15

Dex:8

Con:14

Int:8

Wis:15

Cha:10

 

Now in this scenario i leveled out my charisma because maybe i wanted to not have a penalty to conversation skills, but beyond that? what actual purpose would it serve me to increase this stat beyond RP? It's not like while mid combat i can use diplomacy to get the wights from eating my arm. in a game where your resources to define your character are finite stat optimization is rather important 

[anfoglia]

The stat change will have all sorts of knock-on effects, and it may force Obsidian to adjust specific classes that were balanced around Might. But I think panic about the entire change being ruinous should probably wait until we've had our hands on the update for a few weeks. The mere fact that a certain build's numbers won't match its POE numbers doesn't necessarily mean that build won't feel effective or fun in Deadfire.