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theBalthazar

Your Tiers List [Base Classes, Subclasses]

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Hello,

 

According to you, 

 

1) What classes/subclasses are fun to play ?
2) What classes/subclasses are enough Powerful, too much powerful ?
3) What penalties discourage you to take the class / are too strong compared to bonus ?
4) What classes/subclasses are not enough powerful ?
5) What are concepts that you like / Dislike ? (Not to mention the raw power of the class)
 
If you want, make a tiers list (rank better at worst)
 
I will post mine in few days, when I will try/test all the classes at 100 %.
Edited by theBalthazar
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1/ Anything but a ranger, priest, or main tank figther

 

Allow me to explain, a MT is boring as fck to me, in the game's current state.

loved tanks in DAO, because you could shield slam and that looked sooooooo cool, just absolutely amazing.

You could spec full tank and still have fun, land crits, and CC like a boss.

 

In here I merely find them boring, they're a tool and nothing more -.-

 

 

2/ Way too subjective, not going to lean in here

 

 

3/ You'll need to be more accurate with that question, are we talking about specialist classes' disadvantages ?

 

 

4/ see item 2

 

 

5/ Liking that now we can interrupt spells without resorting to CC, liking that we get subclasses, liking that we can multi

Disliking the loss of spell scribing, this is a huge turn off for me

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1) Most classes & subclasses. I've never actually had fun building and playing fighters before. I didn't expect or even want that, so that was a pleasant surprise. I think fighter tanks are really interesting now with all the new weapon effects and customized abilities, in contrast to dam. I also love Helwalker, and I'd be very sad if they changed it at all.

 

2) With the current Pen mechanics, Devoted and Sharpshooter.

 

3) The penalty that discourages me right now is that the Conjurer's familiar spell is not useful. That makes me sad, and not want to use the class, even if it's an otherwise fine class. I know it's not a very serious complaint, but it really bothers me.

 

4) Less about power level than fun level: Stalkers & Priests of Skaen are unfun to play by themselves. I hope that Priests of Skaen get more than a single talent to match the lists of free spells the other priests get.

 

5) I love the loss of spell scribing, and in general how caster classes don't get all the spells available to them. It meant that all the caster classes ended up with very similar builds. It was a poor design move that made classes feel artificially powerful at the cost of making caster builds feel indistinct.

Edited by cheesevillain

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Based on so many classes/subclasses I think it's kinda hard to rank all of them, I'd prefer rank different roles, like for strikers ranking strongest to weakest, and defender and etc.

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right now devoted + anything is pretty good as long as you can stick to that weapon type. You pretty much can't go wrong with that.

monks + another melee class are also great because you don't have to bother giving them a weapon, they're brutally strong without one. In the real game that might change with increased weapon availability but in the beta monk fists are pretty great.

 

most fun? 5 ranger/druids with bear companion + bear shapeshift, 10x bear attack

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right now devoted + anything is pretty good as long as you can stick to that weapon type. You pretty much can't go wrong with that.

monks + another melee class are also great because you don't have to bother giving them a weapon, they're brutally strong without one. In the real game that might change with increased weapon availability but in the beta monk fists are pretty great.

 

most fun? 5 ranger/druids with bear companion + bear shapeshift, 10x bear attack

 

Soul Blade + any melee class is pretty good too.

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From top to bottom, my feelings so far.  scale 1-10

 

Barbarian-8- Pretty good all round

    Berserker- 9 - Perhaps good with Paladin mutli class.  Also great synergy with monks due to clarity of mind and both having many effects that proc on crit builds.

    Corpse Eater- No idea 

    Mage slayer-  -50% beneficial spell duration is really bad, extremely bad

 

Chanter-8- Pretty support good all round.  But that 9 second summoning time is basically terrible.

    Summoner-  If you do a buffing stage at the start of battle there's usually enough time to get the summons out and then they're great.

    Skald-  Offensive invocations are about your best CC option right now of any class.  Use dual wands, daggers, or clubs, for fast crits.

    Troubadour -  The passive subclass.

 

Cipher-5/8 (single/ soul blade multi)-  Ehh...  great multi class for the passives, but the spells are pretty meh.  The effects weren't balanced with the new cast times.  Example:  Whisper of treason cast+recov = 9 seconds, duration = 10 seconds;  Mental binding cast+recov = 9 seconds, duration = 6 seconds.  There are many more examples.  Also many buffs don't affect the caster.

   Ascendant-  Bad.  Takes forever to cap focus then you only have 5 seconds to do something with the buff you get from it.

   Beguiler-  Uh cipher's have illusion spells?  If this is referring to deception spells then it might be a good way to perma debuff enemies if you get enough focus from it, but I doubt that.

   Soul Blade-8-  Great melee multi class.  Don't bother with spells.

 

Druid- 5/8-  Shapeshifting is always fun.  But suffers from spell effect duration's that weren't balanced with the new cast times, same as cipher.  Example:  Tanglefoot, cast time+recovery time= 9 seconds, duration = 6 seconds.

    Fury-  Spell cast times to long vs spell effect, though some might still be good

    Lifegiver- 8 - EDIT:  This get's upgraded to an 8 after using Boeroer's lifegiver build, even a 9 wouldn't be to generous, it heals much better than I thought.

    Shapeshifter-8-  Strong, mutli class with a class who's abilities you can use while shifted, monk for example.

 

Fighter- 8 - Good as a tank, great for martial multi classing

   Black Jacket-   Idk, it's for weapon swap builds.

   Devoted-10-  Give this one a 10 for martial multi classing because of the penetration system.  Even with 1 proficiency it will probably excel with swords or greatswords.

  Unbroken-  Multi class to paladin for one tough mofo

 

Monk- 9 - Tons of good stuff here.  Lightning strikes, swift flurry, raised torment, thunderous blows, rooting pain, Blade turning, etc

   Helwalker-  Well, I don't like glass cannons, but it's a nice option

   Nalpazca-  Idk, depends on drug durations

   Shattered Pillar-  Monk's dream come true.

 

Paladin- 8 - Lots of good skills here, they're so tough it's a real shame they don't have more natural engagement slots though.  Multi class to something that does

 

Priest- 7 -Unlike the other casters priest spells have a decent duration and are quite important, especially now that you need dire blessing to graze.  7 instead of 8 since they don't have any passives.

 

Ranger- ? - Haven't got a ranger working yet so Idk

 

Rogue- 8 - Rogue has plenty of good options.  Confounding blind is awesome.  Managing them kind of sucks until you get persistent distraction though.

   Assassin- ? - Idk, might be cool with shadowing beyond.

   Street fighter-  A squishy melee that benefits from low health and is punished for full health?  Bad

   Trickster- I wouldn't trade 30% of my sneak attack for arkemyr's dazzling lights.  Not sure what else they get, some mirror images might make it worth it for riposte builds

 

Wizard- 5 - No passives, spell durations/effects aren't balanced with the new cast times, though some of the defensive spells are nice.  Specializations to restrictive.

 

EDIT:  A few changes, most notably life giver gets much more credit now.

Edited by Climhazzard
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Pretty much any multi-class where there is some synergy can be great. That makes for pretty much all of them :)

 

Way too much needed to write to include all the different possible mixes. I could see myself never rolling a pure class.

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From top to bottom, my feelings so far.  scale 1-10

 

Barbarian-8- Pretty good all round

    Berserker- Perhaps good with Paladin mutli class

    Corpse Eater- No idea 

    Mage slayer-  -50% beneficial spell duration is really bad, extremely bad

 

Chanter-8- Pretty support good all round.  But that 9 second summoning time is basically terrible.

    Summoner-  Good if the battle isn't over by the time the summons arrive....

    Skald-  Good melee support multi class using low cast time invocations

    Troubadour -  The passive subclass, it's okay...

 

Cipher-5/8 (single/ soul blade multi)-  Ehh...  great multi class for the passives, but the spells are pretty meh.  The effects weren't balanced with the new cast times.  Example:  Whisper of treason cast+recov = 9 seconds, duration = 10 seconds;  Mental binding cast+duration = 9 seconds, duration = 6 seconds.  There are many more examples.  Also many buffs don't affect the caster.

   Ascendant-  Bad.  Takes forever to cap focus then you only have 5 seconds to do something with the buff you get from it.

   Beguiler-  Uh cipher's have illusion spells?  If this is referring to deception spells then it might be a good way to perma debuff enemies if you get enough focus from it, but I doubt that.

   Soul Blade-  Great melee multi class.  Don't bother with spells.

 

Druid- 5/8 (single, shapeshifter multi)-  Shapeshifting is always fun.  But suffers from spell effect duration's that weren't balanced with the new cast times, same as cipher.  Example:  Tanglefoot, cast time+recovery time= 9 seconds, duration = 6 seconds.

    Fury-  Spell cast times to long vs spell effect, though some might still be good

    Lifegiver-  healers are important, but priests have dire blessing and devotions for the faithful

    Shapeshifter-  Strong, mutli class with a class who's abilities you can use while shift, monk for example.

 

Fighter- 8 - Good as a tank, great for martial multi classing

   Black Jacket-   Idk, it's for weapon swap builds.

   Devoted-  Give this one a 10 for martial multi classing because of the penetration system.  Even with 1 proficiency it will probably excel with swords or greatswords.

  Unbroken-  Multi class to paladin for one tough mofo

 

Monk- 8 - Tons of good stuff here.  Lightning strikes, swift flurry, raised torment, thunderous blows, rooting pain, Blade turning, etc

   Helwalker-  Well, I don't like glass cannons, but it's a nice option

   Nalpazca-  Idk, depends on drug durations

   Shattered Pillar-  Monk's dream come true.

 

Paladin- 8 - Lots of good skills here, they're so tough it's a real shame they don't have a natural engagement slot though.  Multi class to something that does

 

Priest- 7 -Unlike the other casters priest spells have a decent duration and are quite important, especially now that you need dire blessing to graze.  7 instead of 8 since they don't have any passives.

 

Ranger- ? - Haven't got a ranger working yet so Idk

 

Rogue- 8 - Rogue has plenty of good options.  Confounding blind is awesome.  Managing them kind of sucks until you get persistent distraction though.

   Assassin- ? - Idk, might be cool with shadowing beyond.

   Street fighter-  A squishy melee that benefits from low health and is punished for full health?  Bad

   Trickster- I wouldn't trade 30% of my sneak attack for arkemyr's dazzling lights.  Not sure what else they get, some mirror images might make it worth it for riposte builds

 

Wizard- 5 - No passives, spell durations/effects aren't balanced with the new cast times, though some of the defensive spells are nice.  Specializations to restrictive.

 

I'd give Berserker a solid 9 for the huge improvement of Frenzy.

 

Devoted a solid 9 too, but the rest 7 because fighters don't have a lot active abilities which make it too passive and not fun to play them.

 

Well Monks have tons of good abilities, a 9 for all Monks is reasonable.

 

Tricker might need a little big tune, perhaps boost sneak attack to +30%.

 

For rangers, sharpshooter 8 the rest 6.

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Berserker is very good multiclassed with any Fighter, although you need to wait until you get Tactical Barrage for it to really shine.


"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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Berserker + Shattered Pillar (or any Monk) can also disable the Confusion with Clarity of Agony for a single wound.

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I think the lesson here is that Frenzy is the best most fun barbarian ability and making it better is both cool and good.

Edited by CottonWolf

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I really can't speak about what's powerful or not, since I haven't spent much time analyzing things in detail. The following is purely my feelings/speculations.

 

At this point, as I think we all know, multi-classes are fun to roll, single classes are not. This might be different if we get some super powerful late game abilities that only single class characters can access, but I doubt it. 

 

Wizards 5/10 - My favorite class in most RPGs, but I'm really not feeling them now. Casting time is long, damage is low, and the sub-classes lose huge portions of their spellbook. Finally, grimoires have been revamped in an inconvenient direction. The ogre transformation ability is interesting though. 

 

Chanters 8/10 - I enjoyed playing with the Beckoner due to their ability to be able to summon a creature right at the beginning of combat. It's finally a class that might make a decent summoner build. I haven't really tried the other sub-classes.

 

Priest 6/10 - I like that they get access to a few mage spells now. You could in theory make a nice fire-themed priest of Magran that hurls fireballs. But I think they're pretty weak for the same reasons that wizards are currently weak. 

 

Rogue 8/10 - I like 'em. I can see sneak attack being very useful in combination with other martial classes. Playing an assassin and going for that backstab is very satisfying (although often ends badly).

 

Monk 9/10 - The might raising stuff seems pretty potent. With the right abilities and a few wounds, you can push your might up to the high twenties. I see a lot of potential there for high damage. 

 

Ranger 7/10 - Rangers are getting a lot of hate ATM, but I like the idea of a sharpshooter at least. Powerful archer character (combined with rogue or fighter perhaps?) to kill enemies from a safe distance. 

 

Cipher 8/10 - They seem like a good deal. Most of the spells aren't too useful, but the soul whip and abilities like Soul Annihilation make for a powerful martial fighter. I'm sure lots of people will want to run a Psyblade type character. 

 

Fighter 8/10 - Same as PoE1 really. Necessary but not particularly fun. Although I can see the devoted being powerful and convenient (since most people probably don't bother to switch weapons anyway).

 

Druid 6/10 - The shapeshifter seems like it has potential in combination with other melee classes. And the lifegiver might make a good dedicated healer if paired with cleric. 

 

Paladin 7/10 - Haven't tried them much, but they seem as good as PoE1. 

 

Barbarian 7/10 - Haven't played with them much yet, but naturally they'll make good combos with other martial classes.

Edited by Heijoushin
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As I like PotD solo runs - I would like to try Brawler (Devoted / Helwalker)

Dual wielding sabres or war hammers, or... - havn't decided yet

Nature Godlike or Wood Elf or Mountain Dwarf - havn't decided yet :)

 

Tier one I guess.


Done this with Moon Godlike Wizard

q22yrpP.png

Perebor steam

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Devoted/Helwalker with sabres is a beast. With swords it is potentially even better due to the modal (+2 Pen in exchange for -20 deflection that makes you stack MIG from the Helwalker’s ability even faster.)


"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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Tiers list – Beta 1.0820 - Until level ~10

 

GOD TIERS

Devoted (Fighter)

Berserker (Barbarian)

Shifter (Druid)

Beckoner (Chanter)

 

TOP TIERS

Nalpazca (Monk)

Lifegiver (Druid)

Unbroken (Fighter)

Base Fighter

Base barbarian

Base Druid

Base Monk

Shattered pillar (Monk) Penalty too strong if not... It could be highter

 

MID TIERS

Assassin (Rogue)

Base Rogue

Shieldbearer of St Elcga (Paladin)

Bleak walker (Paladin)

Base Chanter

Kind wayfarers (Paladin)

Darcozzi Paladini (Paladin)

Goldpact knights (Paladin) Broken effect ? + Shared flame don’t work ?

Mage slayer (Barbarian)

Troubadour (Chanter)

Sharpshooter (Ranger)

 

LOW TIERS

Street fighter (Rogue)

Trickster (Rogue)

Fury (Druid)

Corpse eater (Barbarian)

Helwalker (Monk) Good when multiclass but very bad deal (With 5 wounds : +15% damage AND +25 % more received damage WTF far too much…)

Skald (Chanter)

Ghost heart (Ranger)

Stalker (Ranger)

Soul blade (Cipher)

All priest (Wait the full list of spells but for now…)

Base Cipher

 

TRASH TIERS

Black jacket (Fighter)

Base Wizard

All spe wizard

Beguiler (Cipher)

Ascendant (Cipher)

 

--------------------------

 

1) All classes are fun to play, except these who always fail (hello casters) or with a strong penalty (Ascendant, beguiler)
2) 50 % of hit converted to crits for Fighter / barbarian is Very very strong...
3) See low / trash tiers : Globally casters, and WTF ratio Bonus/penlaties (Black jacket) or WTF concept (Stalker)
4) Wizard often miss 6-9 seconds spells (ffuuu ^^). It is ridiculous. Chanter also have problem of the duration. sometimes 9 seconds for invocations !! (even if they are strongs) seems to be "irrationnal" in the course of the fight.
5) Black jacket, Stalker, Fury, Shifter, street fighter, ghost heart, nalpazca have great "background"/idea, good "essence".
Edited by theBalthazar

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Mostly agree your tier list but one thing Soul Blade is at least Top Tier if u just use it for multiclass with a melee class instead of caster.

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Mostly agree your tier list but one thing Soul Blade is at least Top Tier if u just use it for multiclass with a melee class instead of caster.

 

 

 
Indeed. I have tried to judge classes and subclasses according to their intrinsic value without multiclass, but some like helwaker and soul blade can create a good multiclass.
 
More, Soul blade is the best subclass of cipher for now in my ranking... But globally this class and all its derivatives are mostly bad casters. (like all casters in fact : p)
Edited by theBalthazar

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1) What classes/subclasses are fun to play?

Usually I'd say ciphers and late-game wizards.

But in the current stage of beta... just dunno. Perhaps Fury, because of the new form (which is ranged btw) and their teleport ability.

 

2) What classes/subclasses are enough Powerful, too much powerful ?

- Devout

- Berserker and Hellwalker (haven't tried Shattered Pillar yet)

- Soul Blade - but only if taken for the passives in a martial multi-class build, where all the focus is going into Annihilation

 

3) What penalties discourage you to take the class / are too strong compared to bonus ?

- Goldpact - the loss of aura hits hard

- Darcozzi Paladini - flame shield is too weak

- Trickster - can he even make it into an optimal build? There should be another penalty, unrelated to dps.

- Black Jacket - you lose constant recovery and get quick switch which is currently not worth it

- Fury - I actually like Fury, their form and bonuses, but no access to restoration spells hurts, as healing is really important in Deadfire; increasing elemental claws damage, or +duration on kill could probably balance it out

- Mage Slayer - can leave without scrolls... but potions and shorter buffs duration is a big hit

 

4) What classes/subclasses are not enough powerful ?

Ex-vancian classes and cipher casters, especially if they are built as debilitators.

Long casting durations, unreliable hard cc (no-graze, resistance downgrades), might being multiplicative bonus (this hits single-class cc ciphers with low might) are the main reasons while casting is so weak right now.

 

5) What are concepts that you like / Dislike ? (Not to mention the raw power of the class)

Dislike:

- long cast times, duh. I'm ok if there are some very slows spells like high-dmg Implossion, or if there is some sort of Pyroclasm that is same Fireball but x2 the duration / x3 the damage; but majority of already existing spells were pretty fine.

- no grazes when casting or using abilities. I'm fine with auto-attacks being unable to graze...

- lack of class-specific counter-resistance talents, e.g. Mental Overwhelming - negates the resistance to Intellect and Resolve afflictions. Precise Affliction - negates the resistance to Dexterity and Perception afflictions. Something like that.

Edited by MaxQuest
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- Fury - I actually like Fury, their form and bonuses, but no access to restoration spells hurts, as healing is really important in Deadfire; increasing elemental claws damage, or +duration on kill could probably balance it out

 

 

I have test Fury, Seems less strong than animals, or is it only me ?

 

We must count rebound damage indeed, but I don't know, not the same feel of efficiency than the cat or others forms ?

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I have test Fury, Seems less strong than animals, or is it only me ?

 

We must count rebound damage indeed, but I don't know, not the same feel of efficiency than the cat or others forms ?

Tbh I haven't checked shifter yet.

But yes, I would expect animal forms to deal more damage, partially because they are melee, and partially because fury gets also bonuses to elem spells.

Compared to regular weapons though, fury auto-attack dps could be buffed a tiny bit.

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Hah. I'm kind of worried about everyone tearing down wizards because I'm certainly bringing my POE1 wizard character into the game as my first run. I just love the wide spectrum of terrible things they can do to enemies.

 

Here's to hoping they're balanced come release.

Edited by Yenkaz

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I have to agree that corpse eater is not a good sub class. There's nobody to eat in the beta. I don't like having a class that isn't consistent in its combat performance. If they could eat any biological enemy, I think it would change considerably.

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Tiers list – Beta 2 - Until level ~9-10


 


GOD TIERS


No classes now.


 


TOP TIERS


Devoted (Fighter) DOWN (Was 3 penetration, always a good deal with no cast time... But no more God tiers)


Berserker (Barbarian) DOWN (Was 4 penetration, god tiers. Now... high top tiers : p)


Shifter (Druid) DOWN (Strength and resolve. Not a BIG problem, except if you cast your storm before, a small loss)


Nalpazca (Monk)

Unbroken (Fighter)


Base Fighter


Base barbarian


Base Monk


Shattered pillar (Monk) Penalty too strong if not... It could be highter


 


MID TIERS


Base Druid DOWN (Resolve and strength fact)


Assassin (Rogue)


Base Rogue


Shieldbearer of St Elcga (Paladin)


Bleak walker (Paladin)


Goldpact knights (Paladin) UP (I did not understand, and it's worth more.)


Base Chanter


Kind wayfarers (Paladin)


Darcozzi Paladini (Paladin)


Mage slayer (Barbarian)


Troubadour (Chanter)


Sharpshooter (Ranger)


Beckoner (Chanter) DOWN+++ (Nerf of the absolute and always 10 seconds... Not bad but very slow and ordinary- now (end of midtiers...), too bad)


Lifegiver (Druid) DOWN


 


LOW TIERS


Soul blade (Cipher) UP (no reason to that : it was too low, my bad)


Street fighter (Rogue)


Trickster (Rogue)


Fury (Druid)


Corpse eater (Barbarian)


Helwalker (Monk) Good when multiclass but very bad deal (With 5 wounds : +5% damage AND +25 % more received damage WTF far too much…)


Skald (Chanter)


Ghost heart (Ranger)


Stalker (Ranger)


All priest (Wait the full list of spells but for now, problem of cast time, and absence of the famous +10 of accuracy which do the salt in POE1…)


 


TRASH TIERS


Black jacket (Fighter)


Base Wizard


All spe wizard


Base Cipher DOWN+ (Cipher was pretty bad, now with resolve and strength fact, he is in ... a catastrophic situation)


Beguiler (Cipher)


Ascendant (Cipher)


 


--------------------------


 


1) Sharpshooter bothers me because he cannot be melee characters. And it is not very fun with a ranged weapon.

 

2) 50 % of hit converted to crits for Fighter / barbarian is always Very very strong, but end of the god tiers with all the nerfs.

 

3) Discourage : See low / trash tiers : Globally casters, and WTF ratio Bonus/penlaties (Black jacket) or WTF concept (Stalker)

 

4) Not powerful : Casters spell duration seems always to be "irrationnal" in the course of the fight. I don't change my mind. No move ! The "change" doesn't change anything... 10 Seconds sometimes with full loss of the power source if interrupted ttss.... Length + even longer if it misses = something is wrong with casters...

 

5) Black jacket, Stalker, Fury, Shifter, street fighter, ghost heart, nalpazca have great "background"/idea, good "essence".

Edited by theBalthazar

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