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theBalthazar

Your Tiers List [Base Classes, Subclasses]

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I haven't delved as deeply yet as many others here have. Over all my preferences are still pretty much unchanged:

 

1) Ranger, rogue, druid

2) Wizard, barbarian, paladin, priest

3) cipher (which I still cannot grok), chanter, monk (which the whole "wounds" thing has always thrown me)

 

My favorite multiclasses so far have been:

1) Ranger/rogue which I built to be a sort of bounty hunter with lots of bluff, streetwise, and hunter skills.

2) A barbarian/druid which I kind of built up as a shaman style paladin since I still think of druids as a variation of a priest class.

 

So far my worst multiclass was a chanter/cipher. Should be no surprise since I am not particularly fond of either class anyway.

My second worst was a wizard/rogue, but only because I think I felt the need to spread my attributes/skills selection too thin and not settle on one of the classes playing a more supporting role for the other.

 

Some of the subclasses strike me as potentially intriguing, but the abilities and skills haven't been really diversified as much for all of them to be that interesting. I love the idea of the devoted, but I must be missing how this subclass really functions. I thought I was devoting all my fighter skills and focus to one weapon, but when I keep adding weapon proficiencies, I feel like my focus is diluted.

 

Some other subclasses intrigue me:

Mage Slayer

Fury

Assassin (which I used in my ranger/rogue build)

Shifter

 

The whole wizard schools thing seems to lack depth at this point.

 

I feel like if I am going to specialize in a subclass, then I want more substantial benefits. But in a game that seems bent on balance, that is unlikely to happen.

 
Joe
Edited by JFutral

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Hey Joe. The devoted is currently bugged and allows you to select multiple weapons. In the final version of the game, you'll only be able to choose one.

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We will see how strong monk fists are in next patch I think once they fix the bug of Transcendent suffering. A nature godlike Shattered Pillar maxes Str, Per and Res would be very very strong.

 

Just tested it and a lvl 9 monk can get +65% damage, +18 accuracy and +5 Penetration from Transcendent suffering with Nature godlike +2 power level and acute buff(+1 power level). Fist will do more damage than a great sword and is super fast because it is counted as fast weapon and get dual wielding bonus.

 

You can spam Torment reach because the wounds generated by Torment reach is enough to use another one... And with Torment Reach + Rooting Pain you usually can do up to 80 damage in the area, and up to 180 damage to the main target.....

Edited by dunehunter

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My second worst was a wizard/rogue, but only because I think I felt the need to spread my attributes/skills selection too thin and not settle on one of the classes playing a more supporting role for the other.

 

A Rogue/Conjurer who max Str and use Kalakoth's Minor Blights as main weapon is very strong. You can turn Blind Strike or Hobble Strike into AOE CC with it, then all your blights will do sneak attacks. Not to mention AOE Arterial Strike or Gouging Strike.

 

An Assassin/Evoker is pretty cool as you can apply assassinate to your blasts.

 

Or a Streetfighter/Illusionist as a Riposte build. There are many possible builds for Rogue/Wizard.

Edited by dunehunter
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BETA 2

1)Melee classes, everything else is unfun and casters are the worst.

2)Devoted, Berserker. They synergize very well together, can be used with Wizards for powerful buffs that would normally go wasted, and on their own tear through most things.

3)Wizard specialists. As of now casting sucks, but loosing out on two schools and casting two others for a meh passive or spell and a small power boost is a bad trade. Streetfighter as well for being too situational to shine.

4)Almost all of them.

5)I don't dislike any of them, though I question the execution of quite a few.

Edited by KaineParker

"Take your child murderin' god and shove his him up his own ass."-Volorun

 

"...the vote of a black redhead disabled homosexual transsexual Jew should probably be worth the same as at least a hundred white heterosexual Christians."-Rostere

 

"i can think of many women i would gladly sleep with, but not a single one that i would want as a girlfriend/wife... neither real nor fictional."-teknoman2

 

"I'm all for killing dogs in film." - algroth

 

"Iselmyr is the one who did GOMAD... Aloth is lactose intolerant" -ShadySands

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My second worst was a wizard/rogue, but only because I think I felt the need to spread my attributes/skills selection too thin and not settle on one of the classes playing a more supporting role for the other.

 

A Rogue/Conjurer who max Str and use Kalakoth's Minor Blights as main weapon is very strong. You can turn Blind Strike or Hobble Strike into AOE CC with it, then all your blights will do sneak attacks. Not to mention AOE Arterial Strike or Gouging Strike.

 

An Assassin/Evoker is pretty cool as you can apply assassinate to your blasts.

 

Or a Streetfighter/Illusionist as a Riposte build. There are many possible builds for Rogue/Wizard.

 

 

Ultimately I've never been a multi-class fan even in AD&D and BG. I have enjoyed dual classes, like starting out as a fighter or thief then switch to magic-user.

 

Seeing your recent posts about an assassin/wizard has really made me curious though. And I have had fun with my other multis.

 

Mostly I really want my wizard to be a really good wizard, or my druid to be a really good druid, etc.

 

A melee wizard was still a viable build in PoE I, which is part of what made PoE fun.

 

Although I really do like my ranger/rogue and the barbarian/druid. I don't like my sharpshooter losing recovery speed, though. That makes absolutely no sense.

 

Joe

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Tiers list – Beta 3 - Until level ~9-10


 


GOD TIERS


Devoted (Fighter) UP ! With Mule kick, Devoted gain an active ability with 25 % of damage. Good.


 


TOP TIERS


Berserker (Barbarian)


Shifter (Druid)


Unbroken (Fighter) UP !

Base Fighter UP !

Nalpazca (Monk)

Base barbarian


Base Monk


Shattered pillar (Monk) Penalty too strong if not... It could be highter


 


MID TIERS


Base Druid


Shieldbearer of St Elcga (Paladin)


Bleak walker (Paladin)


Goldpact knights (Paladin)


Base Chanter


Kind wayfarers (Paladin)


Darcozzi Paladini (Paladin)


Mage slayer (Barbarian)


Assassin (Rogue) DOWN ! Nerf of assassinate. Stay a slightly better rogue, no more now.


Base Rogue


Troubadour (Chanter)


Sharpshooter (Ranger)


Beckoner (Chanter)


Lifegiver (Druid)


 


LOW TIERS


Soul blade (Cipher)


Fury (Druid) UP ! Problem solved with penetration.


Street fighter (Rogue)


Trickster (Rogue)


Corpse eater (Barbarian)


Helwalker (Monk) Good when multiclass but very bad deal (With 5 wounds : +15% damage AND +25 % more received damage WTF far too much…)


Skald (Chanter)


Ghost heart (Ranger)


Stalker (Ranger)


All priest (Wait the full list of spells but for now, problem of cast time, and absence of the famous +10 of accuracy which do the salt in POE1…)


 


TRASH TIERS


Black jacket (Fighter)


Base Wizard


All spe wizard


Base Cipher


Beguiler (Cipher)


Ascendant (Cipher)


 


--------------------------


 


1) Sharpshooter bothers me because he cannot be melee characters. And it is not very fun with a ranged weapon.

 

2) Powerful :  Devoted is not stopped by stacking rules with penetration, and stay very attractive. Mule kick give to him a complete pallet.

 

3) Discourage : See low / trash tiers : Globally casters, and WTF ratio Bonus/penlaties (Black jacket) or WTF concept (Stalker)

 

4) Not powerful : Casters spell duration seems always to be "irrationnal" in the course of the fight, even with -1s (and often with +1 recovery time !!). I don't change my mind. No move ! The "change" doesn't change anything again... 9 Seconds sometimes with full loss of the power source if interrupted ttss.... Length + even longer if it misses = something is always wrong with casters...

 

5) Black jacket, Stalker, Fury, Shifter, street fighter, ghost heart, nalpazca have great "background"/idea, good "essence".

 

PS : Globally sorted with single class, that why Paladin is not much highter actually. (Same for Helwalker)

Edited by theBalthazar
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I'd move Skald up to mid tier because it's the only caster with .5 sec casts and some of those spells are really good.


"Take your child murderin' god and shove his him up his own ass."-Volorun

 

"...the vote of a black redhead disabled homosexual transsexual Jew should probably be worth the same as at least a hundred white heterosexual Christians."-Rostere

 

"i can think of many women i would gladly sleep with, but not a single one that i would want as a girlfriend/wife... neither real nor fictional."-teknoman2

 

"I'm all for killing dogs in film." - algroth

 

"Iselmyr is the one who did GOMAD... Aloth is lactose intolerant" -ShadySands

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I think you are underrating Beguiler a bit. Whisper of Treason is very powerful for a 10 focus ability. You can open just about every battle in the beta by charming one of the enemies (an effect that will last well well beyond the decisive phase of the fight). It's cheap enough to charm two enemies and still gain enough focus to unleash mental binding or mindblades (if you're into that sort of thing). Sluggish focus gain matters less when all a character needs to do is spam 10- or 20-focus abilities.

 

Granted, this build is a one-trick pony. Fights with resistant enemies (or ones that can suppress charm) are bound to come up in the actual game. But in the beta it performs better than trash.

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I don't see my Votary build here, I can tell you that it's very strong.


*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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You actually didn't play Beckoner and Skald, did you? :)

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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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Monk + Paladin ?

 

Extremely powerful.

 

But lack of penetration at level 9. Also not the best accuracy anymore. Now there is only FoD. There was also Sworn ennemy, no more the case now. But if one day he gain constant 1.3 bonus damage from penetration (levels 10-20 ?). = One of the best build of the game, by far. Speed + Accuracy + Best increased damages.

 

Personnaly actually, my best combo is Devoted + Bleak walker. Accuracy + Penetration + correct speed + Hit to crit.

Edited by theBalthazar

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I don't see my Votary build here, I can tell you that it's very strong.

Helwalker/Kind Wayfarer was powerful before Might->Str/Rez split, was also okay after the change in beta2, but no more now because lash tune and sworn enemy tune.

 

Yeah Devoted/Bleak Walker is very strong because the issue of cleave stance that it triggers itself. Actually Devoted + Berserker or assassin is also very good.

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Monk + Paladin ?

 

Extremely powerful.

 

But lack of penetration at level 9. Also not the best accuracy anymore. Now there is only FoD. There was also Sworn ennemy, no more the case now. But if one day he gain constant 1.3 bonus damage from penetration (levels 10-20 ?). = One of the best build of the game, by far. Speed + Accuracy + Best increased damages.

 

Personnaly actually, my best combo is Devoted + Bleak walker. Accuracy + Penetration + correct speed + Hit to crit.

Over penetration is only +30% additive damage bonus among all other bonus like sneak attack. I doubt it will make any build the best build, it’s a good addon, but nothing serious here.

Edited by dunehunter

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30 % is always nice.

 

Cipher have base damage bonus, it is the worse class of the game. Rogue is also not totally crazy atm.

 

Anyway, tenacious arrive at level 10, and it allows him to be at the level of others.

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Great analyses on the classes to date.  I know its an immense task, especially with subclasses, but what are people's rankings/tier list for multiclass?  At least the ones they have tried.

 

As a class which may be lower in ranking as a single, could be a lot stronger in synergy with another.

Edited by PneumaticFire

"If you would, you could become all flame" - Abba Joseph of the Desert Fathers.

 

 

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You haven't played with an evocation wizard, post patch, to continue leaving them in trash tier.

 

Just using an empowered fireball at level 5 I got:

 

crit 132

hit 115

hit 125

hit 109

crit 121

hit 142

 

From one fireball - and this is par for the course.

 

As best I can tell, empower is a) doubling evocation spell damage b) adding +acc c) guaranteeing a double cast proc (the number gets added together in the combat log). This results in empowered spells hitting for 4x base damage and one shoting several npcs at once. With the lower level spells that convert grazes to hits, and hits to crits, you're not going to get a lot of straight misses.

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Yes with empower.

 

But with empower, I finish the engwinthan titan in 5s too with a melee... Faster.

 

And Empower is a general feature, not wizard feature.

 

In 5 seconds, Devotion of the faithful, fireball are indeed... not even here...

 

I must do shining beacon to do a 3s spell, to participate (Priest mercenary)... Or all declination of missiles for wizard.  In short, what will happen before the end of the fight... Not even optimal considering that it takes all its meaning overtime. but it's better than nothing.

 

Delay of casters do they are in trash tiers. 2/3 of spells are trash because of 5-9 seconds of casting time.

 

Ironically, Obsidian removes 1s of cast, to add 1s of recovery. Which is a big troll in itself. In short no change, except first spell goes out slightly faster.
 

End of the game.

Edited by theBalthazar
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My conclusions based on the POTD play:

 

Tier-A:

 

Chanters of all kinds - best casters in the game. Fastest spells in the game which perfectly scale up to any combat lenghth.  The spells themselves are also crazily good - Hel-Hiraf is amazing, summons are great, even after the nerf, The Killers Froze Stiff is still very good as paralyze is incredibly strong debuff and clubs make it very easy to land. Not Felled By the Axe also has some potential to be good, more so after the upgrade. Early phrases are kinda bad, but that ends once the power level 3 comes. Oh, and they're the least stat-dependent class in the game so you can min-max them rather heavily. It's hard to imagine any party without at least one of these.

 

Devoted Fighters - best combination of damage dealing & sturdiness. Penetration is the name of the game right now and, with a solid dual-damage weapon, being stuck to one weapon shouldn't be that much of an issue. Constant recovery became much better and it's a steady source of healing right now. Disciplined strikes are unreasonable and probably will be nerfed into oblivion. His overall accuracy is just great - you steadily convert all grazes into hits and that's a lot of extra damage. His other perks are also some of the best in the game - fighter stances offer lots of utility, he has tons of debuff resistance and plenty of damage too. One of the few classes that you'd actually wish to single-class if only to be able to take all this good stuff. Also an easy stat setup with min-Int and max-Strength, Dex and Resolve - you probably don't need max-Per as you accuracy is already good enough and you'll get most of the criticals you need from Disciplined Strikes.

 

Bleak Walkers and Goldpact paladins - the only actually tanky class in the game. And, given how much damage do the enemies pack, it's quite a welcome trait. Generally speaking, the pure paladin is a weak choice - he's too tanky and doesn't contribute much on his own, especially after the Sworn Enemy nerf. So you either splice him on the other Damage Dealer so said class can actually stand and fight without getting wrecked quickly or you pair him with another supportive class. Paladin/chanter, paladin/priest and paladin/druid seem to be the way to go. The dd-hybrids probably have purely offensive stats  (min-int, maxed STR-DEX-PER, although paladin-fighter can also go for the Res instead of Per), the tanks are able to cut down on the strength and to go into high Con-Int-Res mode. Bleak Walkers are good because their flames of devotion are able to focus down enemies fast. Goldpact just have lots of survivability which is the exact point of a paladin. Others are quite subpar - Kind Wayfarer may sound promising, but the amount of healing done is just too low.

 

Berserker barbarians - you know, despite being different class, they're kinda the same as fighters. They both have the excellent damage output and the ability to stay in fight. Frenzy just gives you a ton of damage. The friendly-fire disadvantage is annoying but there are several ways to be fixing it - unlike the previous game, Carnage is quite crappy so you can just cut down on your Int while also spreading your party out. You can also do the barb/paladin hybrid that will eventually get the Intelligence Affliction Resistance, meaning that the Confusion will no longer apply. You can also do a ranged barbarian which just doesn't have Carnage and thus, no friendly fire. In beta 3, that's quite a viable option. So the upsides are strong and the penalty is easy to play around. And, once you combine that Hardy with Thick Skinned, you'll see that even the low-deflection barb is able to endure a lot. Unlike the fighter, the barb isn't that good of a mono-class - there's just not enough worthy perks to be picked, too much chaff inside. But he makes a great multi-class with either paladin or any other damage dealer. Stats-wise its min-Int, max STR, DEX, PER (aka the standard DD fare).

 

Evoker Wizard - tbh, this is probably more of a bug or something. Right now, if you empower the aggressive spell directly, it gets into crazy zone instantly. The Nature Godlike can first Fleet Feet herself, them empower the spell and it produces something like 140 points of damage with 57 accuracy and 11 penetration. That's some nasty damage - with all factors considered, like, 8 times more than it should've been. So yeah, that's good enough. But that's the sole use of the wizard and, once it gets nerfed, he'll revert to being nothing. Because, outside such trickery, the spells barely do any damage. The self-buffs are neither good nor numerous enough to make him a nice second-class. Well, I think that at the later levels you will accumulate a critical amount of them, but when that's gonna be? You need to care about the majority of the game. And most of the good stuff from the first part of the game got nerfed. Deleterious Alacrity is crap. Summoned weapons are bad. Non-empowered offensive spells are bad because their penetration is low (and you can't boost it) and their accuracy is low (and you can't boost it) and the casting time is horrible. And, worst of all, the AI is too smart. Once you begin casting something big, they will go out their way to interrupt you. And those lagufaeth mages with their paralyzing darts don't even need to go that far - they just make a side-spit and you're interrupted. And mind you, this is not a "git gud" complaining. The problem is, most classic D&D tactics were designed to work only against very stupid monster. I mean, fighter holds of the troll, rogue backstabs him. Why doesn't the troll smash the rogue first, lol? Wizard fries enemies from afar - why aren't those enemies a pack of high-initiative archers who just turn the wizard into a cushion pin before he's able to act? And, given how squishy the wizard is, you don't even need a pack. One or two flat-footed sneak-attacking rogues will do. But that's cause D&D is not a competitive game, it's a narrative game so it's designed around everyone feeling useful and stuff. Theoretically - practically you know that non-casters don't matter. But whatever. Here, the wizards retain all their narrative squishiness, but enemies got smart and now it's just too difficult to be casting anything. They're just too good at countering and nothing can be done to prevent that. That doesn't affect wizards only, ofc - all casters are victims (which is why they're crap). Stats-wise, you're a one-shot wonder so you don't need constitution and strength is as useless as it gets for casters.

 

Fury Druid - pretty much the same as above. Would've been tier-D if not for the empower's ridiculousness. Empowered Returning Storm makes 15 or so attacks, with ~55 accuracy and 11 penetration. The only problem is keeping the druid alive for the duration (as we're talking about the min-Con glass cannon build with zero defenses), but worst case scenario, you just combo it out with the Withdraw, it works. Against lightning immune targets, there's also Insect Swarm that deals 20 damage per tick in this mode - enough to melt most of enemies pretty fast. AoE is pretty small, though. So yeah, the brokennes of Empower makes it work. For now. Still, if your top-spell is interrupted, you're in deep problem. Outside of this stuff, the druid is somewhat mediocre, though not as bad as the wizard - the Insect Swarm is a decent enough DD spell thanks to the Raw damage and the Druid has some of the best heals in the game. Outside of the meme build, you probably want to be a lifegiver, though - flexibility is an important part of his profession and losing your healing makes for a critical loss of it whereas the gains are not that big. Shifter looks nice in theory, big damage, good armor, zero recovery, but gets smashed by the fact that it has no accuracy and no real ways of boosting it. I guess you can make a shifter/fighter druid, that's the only solution, but even so that dilutes the offensive capabilities of the shift as they're quite power level reliant. It's also a tough build stat wise - you can't min anything so you're probably just maxing STR and PER.

 
Needless to say, without the empower cheese, the druid goes to C and the wizard goes to D. Have fun while it lasts.

 

Tier-B:

 

Soul Blade Cipher - that's a weird class. On one hand, most of their spells and abilities are trash. On the other, the remaining stuff is really, really good. 40% damage is nothing to scoff at, especially now that Strength acts as a multiplier. The +1 penetration perk is also quite nice. Soul Annihilation, even after the nerf, is a good and decently scaling source of damage. Scaling is of utter importance on PoTD - enemies are numerous, their overall HP pool is tremendous so non-repeatable one-shot wonders just don't reach deep enough into that pool. Stuff that scales with the length of the combat is much superior. Soul Annihilation also drains all your focus conveniently so you just stop caring that your spells are crap - you have a better use for this stuff. Ofc, the class doesn't hold on its own, but it works exquisitely as a fighter/paladin/barbarian addition. Especially now that non-duals are somewhat buffed - Annihilation works best with either the 2-handed or 1-handed style.

 

Stalker Ranger with Bear - this guy is not fancy or flashy, but he's actually nicely packed. Ranger is a mostly defensive character so he's focused on making your party sturdier. Coupled with another sturdy class (the usual suspects - Fighter/Paladin/Barbarian) he becomes very durable and also adds a secondary punching bag in form of his Bear. The bear is not that much of a tank, but he's still better than nothing. At the same time, ranger has his marks and some sweet accuracy passives so his resulting ranged damage will not be all that bad. I guess it's best to go with the Scepters for him as they're not giving him any melee penalties and they don't suffer that much from heavy armor while at the same time providing good penetration. In terms of stats it's probably a min-Int, max STR, DEX and RES (perception seems to be a bit overkill for them and they need to be tanky). You can also try a sleazy combo of Medium Shield and Pistol (which allows to use the shield's extreme defenses without suffering much), but that leaves you with crappy penetration.

 

 

Tier-C:

 

Nalpazca Monk - I don't get all the hype. I mean, yeah, sure, his damage is great but it's on the Fighter/Barbarian level. But, unlike them, the monk is made of glass. There's no point of having great damage if you're getting two or three-shot. And that's a basic monk - helwalker is even worse as that penalty is ridiculous. Also, his damage output is greatly reliant on being a solo class so, unlike the cipher, you can't just splice something onto him to make him work. Solo monks also suffer greatly from their first level ups being quite weak as early abilities are mostly trash. It gets a bit better later on, but still, their development path is very strict and limited. And, from the beta, it feels like PoE 2 follows the original path in a sense that the toughest part of the game ends somewhere around lvl 7-8 and afterwards its mostly gravy. So the guys who are not getting good until then don't look that swell. So I'd say that the best monk is the nalpazca. The helwalker's flaws are soul-crushing. The Shattered Pillar sacrifices the monks excellent weapon for exactly what? Even in the class hybrid with melee weapons, what does a Pillar do that Berserker or Fighter do not? So Nalpazca is the best one and mostly because he can fight ranged, lol. First with some weapon, then with the Long Fists. It's just that alchemy is very potent so boosting it is good. And, while being high, he gets free wounds so he can stay far away while being able to buff himself non-stop. Dance of Death (the longer you don't get hit, the bigger the accuracy bonus you receive) also makes much more sense with ranged than with melee. So an arbalest-toting Nalpazca Cipher seems like a much more sound solution that everything else here, tbh. Stat-wise, they're no different from other damage dealers.

 

Wael Priest - Arcane Veil is a pretty good and mostly reliable spell so having it available from lvl 1 is a nice kind of a deal. That's one and, TBH, the only thing that pulls priest from the rank-D. You just splice it onto some tank and, as a result, you're making that tank much more efficient and you gain more healing for the squad. Othewise, their spells are just meh. I mean, yeah, sure, they have healing, but there's lots of the healing in the game right now so that's not exactly exclusive. The good buffs are few and between (Devotions for the Faithful is the only really good one), the casting times are atrocious, the amount of overall casts is low. Most of the other gods spells are not that hot either. Summoned Spiritual Weapons have been nerfed and they're also not as good mostly because the priest doesn't have any good damage dealing passives. The weapons themselves are also pretty mediocre in terms of types and their usage. So, while cheap Arcane Veil is pretty good, it's not exactly enough to salvage this class. Stat-wise they're mostly Resolve and Intelligence dependent, but most tanky build will have Resolve, at the very least. Being tied to the intelligence really sucks, though - it's not that good in the PoE 2.

 

Tier-D

 

Assassin Rogue - the thing is, other melee classes have gained a lot of aggressive passives while Rogue lost pretty much everything but the base sneak attack. Also, with the spells getting crappier, debuffs became more difficult to apply so it's not as automatically enabled as it was. And flanking is not that easy on PoTD as you're constantly outnumbered - there are hordes of mobs and getting into the thick of them is risky. More so for the frail rogue. So you can have the unreliable 50% damage of Rogue or the always reliable 40% damage of Cipher - yeah, tough choice. Which is then made even "tougher" by the fact that Rogue's ability guzzle up Guile like it has thousands of it while not giving that much of a lasting effect in return. It scales badly, yeah. And then we take into account that pure-rogue is not half as survivable as to be using either Riposte or the Brawler subclass. Yeah, sure, Riposte should be a Trickster baby, self-buffs, etc, but rogue's basic deflection is so bad that even buffs don't push it into reliable zone - it's no paladin. Also, trickster loses most of the damage so what's the point of those ripostes after all that. The only somewhat perspective style of play (and I'm mostly theorycrafting here as it doesn't really work atm because of the bugs/issues(?)) is the assassination invisibility hopping. So, as the soul assassin, you sneak in, destroy one target, then use as much invisible skills as possible to assassinate more, then the invis runs out and you probably die. Bad scalability, but before the nerf of assassination, it could've been impactful enough. Now - I'm not too sure. Yeah, that nerf was so highly needed. Stat-wise, they couldn't care less about constitution and resolve so you just stack high on everything else. Yeah, they need the intelligence too, othewise the invisibility doesn't last long enough for them to get into position and/or reload their guns. They could've worked well with the soul blade ciphers, but the stats are too difficult there (as you begin to be needing resolve and that's just too much). 

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Bleak Walkers and Goldpact paladins - the only actually tanky class in the game. And, given how much damage do the enemies pack, it's quite a welcome trait. Generally speaking, the pure paladin is a weak choice - he's too tanky and doesn't contribute much on his own, especially after the Sworn Enemy nerf.

 

 

Happy to see that.

 

For me, in my mind, sworn ennemy was perfect for single class. It was just a problem with multiclass. Easily solved by power level :

 

Single class

14 accuracy (4 base + 10 by PL at level 20) +20 % damage

 

Multiclass

8 accuracy (4 base + 4 by PL at level 20) +20 % damage

 

A good solution to avoid deep tear between single and multi : avoid a decision of nerf punishing too much the single class.

Edited by theBalthazar
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One thing is that the monk unarmed attack is never tested in beta because the save/load bug which reset transedent suffer damage.

 

After 3 version of beta, I’m still not sure how strong they are because I am not able to test it.

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My conclusions based on the POTD play:

 

Tier-A:

Devoted Fighters - best combination of damage dealing & sturdiness. Penetration is the name of the game right now and, with a solid dual-damage weapon, being stuck to one weapon shouldn't be that much of an issue. Constant recovery became much better and it's a steady source of healing right now. Disciplined strikes are unreasonable and probably will be nerfed into oblivion. His overall accuracy is just great - you steadily convert all grazes into hits and that's a lot of extra damage. His other perks are also some of the best in the game - fighter stances offer lots of utility, he has tons of debuff resistance and plenty of damage too. One of the few classes that you'd actually wish to single-class if only to be able to take all this good stuff. Also an easy stat setup with min-Int and max-Strength, Dex and Resolve - you probably don't need max-Per as you accuracy is already good enough and you'll get most of the criticals you need from Disciplined Strikes.

I am so psyched to hear this, and desperately hope nothing will be nerfed too much. Fighters are my all-time favorite class to play and I really hate that high-fantasy RPGs (including PoE1) tend to make fighters boring and/or weak and/or generic as a PC class.

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Atm Disciplined strike is not nerfed. I think it is a choice by Obsidian.

 

Fighter was the worse class of the first game. His superiority in melee against one ennemy is totally normal.

 

Same for FoD. Nerf of 20 % was risky, because of single class. In fact, I think the "decision point" of FoD nerf was for multiclass, I am pretty sure of that. But a single Paladin need his superiority with an active ability. He have nothing else. (retribution is little feature, sworn ennemy is nerf, no boost of speed, no boost of penetration, no hit to crit, no AoE damage, no crit bonus. Honnestly : FoD is his only trump card.)

 

And it is same for Fighter. Without disciplined strike, a non devoted fighter stay with what ? A suppressed +5 of accuracy ? A good mule kick yes but at the cost of 2 abilities points (and two discipline points). And an "ok" boost in speed or damage (via Style) but not crazy compared to few others classes.

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Tier-D

 

Assassin Rogue - the thing is, other melee classes have gained a lot of aggressive passives while Rogue lost pretty much everything but the base sneak attack. Also, with the spells getting crappier, debuffs became more difficult to apply so it's not as automatically enabled as it was. And flanking is not that easy on PoTD as you're constantly outnumbered - there are hordes of mobs and getting into the thick of them is risky. More so for the frail rogue. So you can have the unreliable 50% damage of Rogue or the always reliable 40% damage of Cipher - yeah, tough choice. Which is then made even "tougher" by the fact that Rogue's ability guzzle up Guile like it has thousands of it while not giving that much of a lasting effect in return. It scales badly, yeah. And then we take into account that pure-rogue is not half as survivable as to be using either Riposte or the Brawler subclass. Yeah, sure, Riposte should be a Trickster baby, self-buffs, etc, but rogue's basic deflection is so bad that even buffs don't push it into reliable zone - it's no paladin. Also, trickster loses most of the damage so what's the point of those ripostes after all that. The only somewhat perspective style of play (and I'm mostly theorycrafting here as it doesn't really work atm because of the bugs/issues(?)) is the assassination invisibility hopping. So, as the soul assassin, you sneak in, destroy one target, then use as much invisible skills as possible to assassinate more, then the invis runs out and you probably die. Bad scalability, but before the nerf of assassination, it could've been impactful enough. Now - I'm not too sure. Yeah, that nerf was so highly needed. Stat-wise, they couldn't care less about constitution and resolve so you just stack high on everything else. Yeah, they need the intelligence too, othewise the invisibility doesn't last long enough for them to get into position and/or reload their guns. They could've worked well with the soul blade ciphers, but the stats are too difficult there (as you begin to be needing resolve and that's just too much). 

 

I'd say now Assassin is definitely not Tier D.

 

1. Now rogues has the highest penetration, Cripple Strike + Sword modal provides +4 penetration while Barbarian and Monk can only get +2 now.

 

2. With Pistol + Assassinate + Strike the Bell, you can get 9+4+5 = 18 basic penetration, which will for sure overcome any armor.

 

3. Though Afflictions are nerfed in Deadfire, Blind is still pretty powerful, +100 recovery time means you slow down enemies by 50% and it is easy to cause blind because Flail Modal + Reflex being weak defense for enemies.

 

4. And I think actually it's easier to sneak attack enemies now in Deadfire because Escape is a very cheap 'teleport' ability to flank enemies. You spend 1 Guile and can teleport to a Flank position easily.

Edited by dunehunter

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Well, first, most of those things you've listed cost guile and that's not exactly endless. Quite the contrary. Second, you don't need 18 penetration - what for? You need enough to pierce through the armor and other classes are already achieving this all right. Third, as long as the casters reside in the current shape, the Assassin will have no real usage. To have a glass cannon that goes through many hoops to deal 100-ish damage to one character or to have a glass cannon that is much more reliable and that deals 100-ish damage to many characters. Isn't much of a choice.

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