Ciphers - focus fills up too slow?

[dunehunter]

Ascendant’s speciality is changed. Now u have around 20 second to cast at +3 power level instead of 5 second.

[MaxQuest]

I'd also add the decreased critical benefit from high Per -- a bonus 50% critical to duration is a big chunk vs a 25% bonus -- and  the general relative weakness of the focus mechanic now that everyone else is also per-encounter rather than per-rest.

Good point. I am still forgetting that not only bonus damage on crit was decreased; but also bonus duration...

 

I'm also still a little unsure how the stat system generally is going to shake out, but you're better qualified to comment there than I am.

Comparing stats, even just MIG vs DEX vs PER, is like comparing watermelon with apples and grapes now.

As their damage contribution is intertwined, and diluted by other related modifiers but all in different manner.

 

For example MIG is heavily diluted by maluses, especially grazes and under-penetration, so if you have high MIG, you want to avoid these at all costs.

DEX is heavily diluted by bonuses. Also if you have maluses, you don't want to keep it flat.

PER is more useful if you have higher MIG. Otherwise it's usually better to put points in DEX.

 

Will have to re-evaluate these latter on.

 

I'm pretty sure that won't be enough of a change by itself  but it will help a bit, and shows they're listening. I suspect you're fundamentally correct and they are going to have to move ciphers to *very* short cast times and give them an accuracy bonus and a few extra power choices in order to bring them back up to parity.

Yeap, it won't be enough. Have been playing with gamedatabundles, changing and basically increasing twice the casting/recovery speed of majority of cipher powers.

For some of them it's ok at 5.0/3.0s -> 3.0s/1.5s; but majority of cc stuff, really asks for +10/+15 accuracy bonus.

 

One thing though which is cool: a Beguiler can get more than 10 focus back for casting Eyestrike on a group. That means net focus generation without the use of weapons. But you really have to hit a dense crowd.

I still think that this might be an oversight. Sure it feels nice. And with low-ranked powers there no big problem balance-wise.

But if there was high-ranked big aoe deception.. this could get a bit out of hand.

Imagine casting Phantom Foes, and after awhile a 60 focus-costed aoe deception power and hitting 5 targets. That's lose 60, gain 5x60x0.8 = 240 back.

Thus OBS will either get limited in their design space (and will have to avoid creating such aoe deceptions) or they will have to limit the gain-back to not exceed the spent power cost.

 

Ascendant’s speciality is changed. Now u have around 20 second to cast at +3 power level instead of 5 second.

Oh a stealthy change. Changelog only mentions:

- (FIXED) Ascendant's Soul Whip does less damage when not at max focus

- Ascendant has been redesigned to "Ascend" at maximum focus, which causes all cipher powers to cost 0 focus and gain bonus power level until the effect fades, at which point the cipher will fall to 0 focus.

 

The interesting thing is that I haven't even achieved max focus in a fight yet. Either enemy was already dead, or ascendant was disabled / on the floor...

[Boeroer]

Try a Ascendant/Wizard with Minor Blights (+ dagger in offhand). You will reach max focus pretty soon.

 

Did somebody check if explosives (grenades and such) generate focus?

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Another thing I'm wondering about, but don't have a firm opinion on yet, is the split between ranged and melee damage. If you discount scepters and wands (as obviously imbalanced due to dual weild bonuses), there's a big disparity both in DPS and max-alpha terms between melee and ranged weapons. That's not necessarily bad because there are other factors balancing range and melee (not having to move; being in melee range) but it does mean that melee ciphers gain focus faster than ranged ones do. 

 

Again, not necessarily a problem, but part of the picture.

[FreeKaner]

Perhaps it could be made that ciphers have fast casting times for most of their spells, especially debuffs, if CC lost so much impact. 

[Boeroer]

Did somebody check if explosives (grenades and such) generate focus?

I did! It does not.

[OlleDenStore]

 

 

The casting class with the biggest issues at the moment is cipher.  They have a limited range of powers, limited access to Concentration, their Focus gain is slow, and their cast times are relatively long.  They’re going to get more attention than any other class in the next few weeks.

 

 

 

That is from Josh's tumblr blog today. So it seems ciphers will be getting some love. Which is great since they are by far my favorite class.

[draego]

Update

 

Question: 

 

since you are working on the better balance for ciphers, would it be possible to give them some talents to do more damage with weapons to gain focus faster? Maybe give soul whip penetration bonus? I mostly got "no pen" with a pure cipher in beta until I multiclassed.

 

Josh

 

we are increasing the pen of “low pen” weapons to current mid pen and moving mid pen to high and balancing around that. additionally, we are increasing the focus gain rate of ciphers significantly.

Edited February 16, 2018 by draego

[Boeroer]

Great

[MaxQuest]

additionally, we are increasing the focus gain rate of ciphers significantly.

I.e. they will increase base focus gain from 0.25 to 0.35 like in PoE1?

 

we are increasing the pen of “low pen” weapons to current mid pen and moving mid pen to high and balancing around that.

Can someone explain this? As it rises quite a few questions.

 

They increase PEN of weapons with 5 penetration to 7.

They increase PEN of weapons with 7 penetration to 9.

What about:

- weapons with PEN 9, e.g. estocs?

- fist damage?

Does this affect non-kith enemies as well?

 

Do I understand it right that it basically buffs weapons in comparison to damaging spells (whose PEN is not affected by this change)? Or the status-quo is kept the same, provided that we take the buffed empower into account? Also does Empower increase the penetration of the spells? And will Empower start affecting abilities like FoD, Barbaric Blow, etc?

[dunehunter]

 

additionally, we are increasing the focus gain rate of ciphers significantly.

I.e. they will increase base focus gain from 0.25 to 0.35 like in PoE1?

 

we are increasing the pen of “low pen” weapons to current mid pen and moving mid pen to high and balancing around that.

Can someone explain this? As it rises quite a few questions.

 

They increase PEN of weapons with 5 penetration to 7.

They increase PEN of weapons with 7 penetration to 9.

What about:

- weapons with PEN 9, e.g. estocs?

- fist damage?

Does this affect non-kith enemies as well?

 

Do I understand it right that it basically buffs weapons in comparison to damaging spells (whose PEN is not affected by this change)? Or the status-quo is kept the same, provided that we take the buffed empower into account? Also does Empower increase the penetration of the spells? And will Empower start affecting abilities like FoD, Barbaric Blow, etc?

Empower already affect your abilities like FoD and Barbaric Blow. It gives +20 accuracy +5 Pen and +base damage to your abilities.

Edited February 16, 2018 by dunehunter