Multiclassing a paladin tank (and party composition in general)

[Ashen Rohk]

I've gone Helwaker Monk and Bleakwalker Paladin, then stack the Flames of Devotion single target while taking the +12 Defenses passive. Oof.

[dunehunter]

hmm ok, any experience on the gold pact skill or the other paladins?

In the newest beta Gilded Enemy lasts 7 hits. So it’s kinda of a weaker version of stone skin. Also u will need to spend two abilities into Sworn enemy and Sworn rival to make it worth. I’d not waste two ability point on these unless I’m a goldpact. 2 point for an active ability which only gives u 20% damage bonus to single enemy is meh..

[Stargazer55]

So you would recommend Kind Wayfarer over Goldpact at the moment? Because I‘m torn between these two.

 

Edit: I‘m not planning on being a Nature Godlike.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Stargazer55

[Boeroer]

White Flames also heal the paladin (and party of course) - so I would pick Kind Wayfarer I think. Gilded Enmity seems to have been nerfed (too hard). 7 hits seems a bit low.

[dunehunter]

The gain of Gilded Enemy is hard to calculated. But let’s assume it gives u -50% income damage for 7 hits. And every hit does 20 damage in origin. So with one zealot point u get -70 damage and Sworn enemy.

 

With a normal Kw u can heal like 40 hp with FoD to whole team. It also cost 1 zealot point.

 

This is a very rough estimate, but it gives u a general idea about two abilities. Imo FoD > Sworn enemy. Team heal > self damage reduction.

 

Also DoT can consume Gilded enemy. But Sworn rival makes it great because it refunds you zealot point.

[Yosharian]

The gain of Gilded Enemy is hard to calculated. But let’s assume it gives u -50% income damage for 7 hits. And every hit does 20 damage in origin. So with one zealot point u get -70 damage and Sworn enemy.

 

With a normal Kw u can heal like 40 hp with FoD to whole team. It also cost 1 zealot point.

 

This is a very rough estimate, but it gives u a general idea about two abilities. Imo FoD > Sworn enemy. Team heal > self damage reduction.

 

Also DoT can consume Gilded enemy. But Sworn rival makes it great because it refunds you zealot point.

 

My thought was that I'd get the refund zealot cost ability for sworn enemy, and then I get to spam sworn enemy lots of times, thus getting lots of gilded enemies.

 

Is white flames really that superior to gilded enemy?

[Boeroer]

Not if you invest 2 ability points into Sworn Enemy and the upgrade in order to "spam" Gilded Enmity. But you have to kill the bearer of Sworn Enemy first...

 

White Flames is just 1 ability point - needs no upgrade.

 

It depends on your character and your playstyle what is better for you.

 

Without the upgrade of Sworn Enemy I'd say Gilded Enmity is strictly worse than White Flames.

 

By the way: Gilded Enmity (like hostility), not Enemy. Doesn't really matter, but just in case somebody cares or is trying to google it fruitlessly.

Edited April 30, 2018 by Boeroer

[dunehunter]

Yeah exactly what i said, without upgrade i think Gilded Enmity is strictly worse than White Flames. But with Sworn Rival it's OK. Would be good if DoT doesn't eat all of layers.

 

Back to OP's question, if you wanna make your paladin a main tank, go goldpact, if you want to be more leader/healer, go kind wayfarer, if you wanna be a striker, go bleakwalker. The rest is ...meh

Edited April 30, 2018 by dunehunter

[flazeo25]

Does character who used sworn enemy/ Gilded Enmity  have to be one one to finish the enemy off or can you get your zeal back if summon or ally kills it?

[Tommy1984]

 

Does the healing from 2 exalted endurance auras stack, the way 2 ancient memory chants do? Or do chants count as passives, exalted endurance as an active ability?

 

Similarly, do 2 mith fyr chants stack the damage boost?

This is a great question, I'd be really interested to find out the answer to this.

 

My guess would be that the healing stacks, but the lash damage from mith fyr and armor from the exalted endurance don't.

 

 

I tested this today. I used 2 paladins and 2 chanters with different might scores to identify the source of the healing. Here the results:

- Exalted Endurance does NOT STACK

- Ancient Memory does NOT STACK

- Aefyllath Ues Mith Fyr does NOT STACK

- Her Courage Thick as Steel does NOT STACK

- Come, Come Soft Winds of Death does NOT STACK

- The Silver Knights' Shields Broke Both Arrow and Blade does NOT STACK

- The Dragon Thrashed, The Dragon Wailed does STACK

 

For Exalted Endurance the stronger form is used, so the aura of the paladin with higher might overwrites the aura of the paladin with lower might. The same is true for Ancient Memory, in the combat log you can only see the healing from the chant of the chanter with higher might, which heals for 2 points of health instead of only 1 point of health from the chanter with lower might.

 

Also Mith Fyr and all other self buff chants don't stack. The only chant that stacks is Dragon Thrashed, where you can get multiple stacks on enemies. Dont know why Come Come Soft Winds does not stack (on enemies) like Dragon Trashed ... maybe because it also has a self buff part (that is bugged in the current beta).

 

I also tested the following:

- Inspiring Triump is NOT triggered by summon kills on a herald ( ... at least I hoped it would do this )

 

Does character who used sworn enemy/ Gilded Enmity have to be one one to finish the enemy off or can you get your zeal back if summon or ally kills it?

 

no ... the paladin do not have to kill the enemy himself, you also get your zeal back if summons or companions kill the enemy

Edited April 30, 2018 by Tommy1984

[TheMetaphysician]

Thanks so much for testing all of that! That's really useful to know. I guess all the buffs from chants count as active abilities. Consistency!

[Yosharian]

Why would you capitalize 'not stack' and not 'does'? So confusing

[Boeroer]

Cool testing.

 

A lot of stacking got changed from beta3 to beta4 apparently. I tested Ancient Memory before and it stacked, Courage also stacked.

 

Again without mentioning it in the patch notes...

[TheMetaphysician]

 

 

Does the healing from 2 exalted endurance auras stack, the way 2 ancient memory chants do? Or do chants count as passives, exalted endurance as an active ability?

 

Similarly, do 2 mith fyr chants stack the damage boost?

This is a great question, I'd be really interested to find out the answer to this.

 

My guess would be that the healing stacks, but the lash damage from mith fyr and armor from the exalted endurance don't.

 

 

I tested this today. I used 2 paladins and 2 chanters with different might scores to identify the source of the healing. Here the results:

- Exalted Endurance does NOT STACK

- Ancient Memory does NOT STACK

- Aefyllath Ues Mith Fyr does NOT STACK

- Her Courage Thick as Steel does NOT STACK

- Come, Come Soft Winds of Death does NOT STACK

- The Silver Knights' Shields Broke Both Arrow and Blade does NOT STACK

- The Dragon Thrashed, The Dragon Wailed does STACK

 

For Exalted Endurance the stronger form is used, so the aura of the paladin with higher might overwrites the aura of the paladin with lower might. The same is true for Ancient Memory, in the combat log you can only see the healing from the chant of the chanter with higher might, which heals for 2 points of health instead of only 1 point of health from the chanter with lower might.

 

Also Mith Fyr and all other self buff chants don't stack. The only chant that stacks is Dragon Thrashed, where you can get multiple stacks on enemies. Dont know why Come Come Soft Winds does not stack (on enemies) like Dragon Trashed ... maybe because it also has a self buff part (that is bugged in the current beta).

 

I also tested the following:

- Inspiring Triump is NOT triggered by summon kills on a herald ( ... at least I hoped it would do this )

 

Does character who used sworn enemy/ Gilded Enmity have to be one one to finish the enemy off or can you get your zeal back if summon or ally kills it?

 

no ... the paladin do not have to kill the enemy himself, you also get your zeal back if summons or companions kill the enemy

 

 A quick question: do exalted endurance and ancient memory stack with each other? That is, if I have a paladin/chanter running both, will both heals be effective at the same time?

[Boeroer]

They did in beta3. And since Ancient Memory is a passive they still should.

[Nemesis7884]

what i like about the idea of a chanter/paladin is that you get a lot of gorup support, healing and tanking all at the same time, possibly crowd controll, which means it opens up the other spots to take whoever you want...i dont really care about my main and more about taking the coolest companions with me without having to worry about composition.... and those new companions look really sweet with their own specializations...i love that

[TheMetaphysician]

They did in beta3. And since Ancient Memory is a passive they still should.

 

So if chants are passives, why don't two Ancient Memories stack? Maybe the rule is that passives stack, except two identical things don't stack.

Edited May 1, 2018 by TheMetaphysician

[Boeroer]

Yeah they changed that in beta4 and it totally messes up the general rule, which is sad.

[TheMetaphysician]

Yeah they changed that in beta4 and it totally messes up the general rule, which is sad.

 

One possibility is that they didn't change the general rule, but instead changed the classification of chants from passive to active. That would keep the general rule intact, and actually make some sense. It seems to me more natural to think of chants as active abilities, after all; it would make some sense that passive abilities only affect the character who has them, not the whole party. Chants seem more analogous to modal abilities, which are active abilities, right?

 

If that's what they did, then Mith Fyr might not stack with Shared Flames any more, since both give burn lashes and both are active abilities, right? A related question: I wonder if one paladin using shared flames would stack onto another paladin using eternal devotion. Both are active, both burn lashes, so they shouldn't stack, right?

[Boeroer]

Too bad the chants still can be found under the passive side of the ability tree.

[TheMetaphysician]

Too bad the chants still can be found under the passive side of the ability tree.

 

Ah, good point. Not having the backer beta, I was unaware of that little tidbit. So there is something odd here. Perhaps, again, the rule is just: passives stack, unless they are literally the identical ability. That's not as elegant a rule, but still pretty easy to follow.

 

Edit: there were already some complications in the simple "passives stack" rule anyway, since resistance to an affliction (say, from a fighter or paladin passive) doesn't stack with another resistance to the same affliction (say, from a chant) to give you resistance to second-level afflictions of that type. That's not a conceptual problem -- you can think of resistance as a discrete ability rather than as an ability that has degrees, as another poster said in another thread somewhere -- but it does make interpreting the rule a bit complicated in any case.

Edited May 1, 2018 by TheMetaphysician

[Boeroer]

True - I guess they just can't come up with proper stacking rules.

[Nemesis7884]

i was surely going to go paladin-chanter... now suddenly barbarian-paladin seems kinda interesting DAMN IT choices! so short before release (

[Guest FireGodLike]

Hello there!

 

I'm quite new on this forum and just saw this topic! Maybe you can give me some advice!

 

Multiclassing sounds very interesting. In PoE1 I played, business as usual, a fighter/tank. Now I'm thinking of being brave and I'd like try that multiclassing options. There are two options in my mind fighter(unbroken)/druid(shifter) or fighter(unbroken)/paladin (goldpact).

 

I must admit I'm not too deep in character building and the pros and the cons of that.

 

What do you think? Are those good choices or could there be problems with these?

 

I'd like to be a tank/damage dealer!

 

Thanks in advance!

[dunehunter]

If they gonna make Status Resistance stack, then they shall design a new feature called Status Penetration, so if you have Dex Resistance and I have Dex Penetration, I can still paralyze u. This is cooler to me.