One handed Rogue Build Questions

[Habber_Dasher]

I was thinking about doing a one handed rogue build focusing on crits but I had a few questions

 

1). If I choose a weapon with an accuracy bonus could I dump Perception and rely on the  one handed bonus to provide me with all the accuracy I need, and various hit to crit bonuses to provide me with crits?

 

2). What weapons should I go with? relatively few one handed weapons seem to have synergy with crit-builds. I am mainly concerned with causing damage but I understand on-crit effects are really powerful.

[mosspit]

1. Well the weapons that give acc bonus (unique weapons nonwithstanding) add 5acc and one handed style give 12acc by default. So technically you can dump Per and still kinda function similarly to a non-dumped version. However, most of the rogues strike abilities are full attacks (uses both main and offhand weapons). So if you decide to have a alternate weapons set with 2 weapons, you lose 12acc. Or if you dont, you miss out on dmg. So it is not a very popular style choice for rogues.

 

Also note that your attack speed will be slower than 2 weapon style (durganized and non-durganzied) and weapon and shield (durganized).

 

2. To me, you can divide the weapons into 2 types spell striking or on-crit cc effetcs. Spell striking we have Azureith's Stiletto, Starcaller, Bleak Fang. They normally give spell effects once per enounter.

 

For the cc effects, we have Cladhalíath (choose stun-on-crit enchantment), We Toki and Godansthunyr.

 

In White March, spellchance weapons (tehnically not crit only) are introduced and there are Wodewys, Vent Pick, Unlaboured Blade, Nightshroud.

 

Another effect that is technically crit related is Annihilation (+0.5 crit dmg) and we have Purgatory, Resolution and Shatterstar.

 

I guess Cladhalíath is quite attractive as its a spear (+5acc) and you can get earlier than the other prone/stun on crit 1 handers (potentially in act 2 if you side with Dozens).

Edited October 8, 2017 by mosspit

[Habber_Dasher]

So it is not a very popular style choice for rogues.

 

 

 

I was thinking 1-handed rogue because of synergy with dirty fighting, but is there any other classes that do well with 1-handed style?

[firkraag888]

I was thinking about doing a one handed rogue build focusing on crits but I had a few questions

 

1). If I choose a weapon with an accuracy bonus could I dump Perception and rely on the  one handed bonus to provide me with all the accuracy I need, and various hit to crit bonuses to provide me with crits?

 

2). What weapons should I go with? relatively few one handed weapons seem to have synergy with crit-builds. I am mainly concerned with causing damage but I understand on-crit effects are really powerful.

Dude. Please don't build a one handed rogue build.

 

Don't get me wrong you can do whatever you want but if your looking for effectiveness dual wield, or possibly look at using two handed with tidefall. Both options are way better then single handed.

 

Don't worry about accuracy and critical hits with rogues. They almost allways never miss and they crit all the time. You certainly don't need to go a 1 handed build to increase you chance of hitting or crittting.

[Valci]

 

I was thinking about doing a one handed rogue build focusing on crits but I had a few questions

 

1). If I choose a weapon with an accuracy bonus could I dump Perception and rely on the  one handed bonus to provide me with all the accuracy I need, and various hit to crit bonuses to provide me with crits?

 

2). What weapons should I go with? relatively few one handed weapons seem to have synergy with crit-builds. I am mainly concerned with causing damage but I understand on-crit effects are really powerful.

Dude. Please don't build a one handed rogue build.

 

Don't get me wrong you can do whatever you want but if your looking for effectiveness dual wield, or possibly look at using two handed with tidefall. Both options are way better then single handed.

 

Don't worry about accuracy and critical hits with rogues. They almost allways never miss and they crit all the time. You certainly don't need to go a 1 handed build to increase you chance of hitting or crittting.

 

 

Hah... I could never build a rogue that uses a 2H weapon... its just not rogue-ish enough. RP > effectiveness for me

[Moneo]

1. I wouldn't recommend dumping Per on such a rogue, at least take average 10. Per is not only Accuracy, but also Interrupt, it's important too. Consider that you interrupt your foes just by hitting them, and no one has immunity to interrupt. Moreover, on PotD you can't have too high Accuracy

 

2. Just don't bother yourself with those on-hit/on-crit effects, they are rather underwhelming, especially with such a rogue, where you can calmly dump Int. A rogue can do two things with his weapon: first, high damage (which leads to mere death of enemy, I'd say, that's the best debuff ever), second, interrupt (when you crit, you have higher interrupt dices). So, I'd recommend you Shatterstar for such a rogue, IMO that would be the best weapon here. Two damage types, +0.5 crit multiplier on top of all rogue's boni to damage, higher interrupt values (1 sec!). All this means that nothing can escape your rogue's avenge.

 

Also, two sabres with same Annihilation enchant would go (Resolution and Purgatory), they'll provide somewhat higher damage in comparison to the war hammer, but realize that slash DR is the highest DR of your enemies in average throughout the gameplay, and some foes are just immune to slash. On the other hand, in practice crush/pierce pair is the least resisted by DR combination of damage types.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Moneo

[mosspit]

I was thinking 1-handed rogue because of synergy with dirty fighting, but is there any other classes that do well with 1-handed style?

Personally I have not done a single handed build so I can't really comment based on personal play experience. But in terms of builds, I know of this barb build from the build stickied post. Barb has better mileage on on-crit effect due to the propagation of the effects via Carnage. It is like a consistent small-to-medium sized AoE CC on autoattacks.

Edited October 9, 2017 by mosspit

[Boeroer]

One handed usage is good in the early game because it prevents misses and grazes which will kill your dps.

 

Later on it starts to get weaker and gets surpassed by the alternatives because enemies defenses will not be that high any more in relation to the ACC you can achieve. Then even later, once you can get durgan steel and maybe find some Gauntlets of Swift Action, it again is better than dual wielding (from a pure auto-attack-dps perspective). That's because you can achieve nearly 0 recovery with a one hander with speed (like Sword of Daenysis, Rimecutter, Strike Hard, Unforgiven and so on). As soon as this is done there is no difference in speed to a dual wielder.

 

The things that the dual wieder can then do better is doing Full Attacks with rogues' Crippling Strikes (and so on) and using Vulnerable Attack without speed loss (which is good).
While the one hander guy will have 12 more ACC and +15% crit conversion. It's debateable which is better - depends on the weapon and the enemy. For example when fighting an enemy with very high defenses the one handed option will be better while against a high DR target with mediocre defenses the dual wielder will have the upper hand because of same speed but additional 5 DR bypass. 

 

So - early game: fine - mid game: meh - late game: fine

 

It is viable. Especially if you get Merciless Hand from Doemenel and Dungeon Delver.

 

Weapons with on-crit effects like overbearing and stunning are not underwhelming for a rogue. With the high crit rate of a rogue you will cause prone or stun quickly, this will unlock Sneak Attacks and make the next attack more likely to crit, causing the affliction again. It can be very benefical for a rogue to cause one or two afflictions passively by himself. It's then a lot less fuzz to activate Deathblows for example (easy: flank an enemy and cause prone or stun on crit: Deathblows - no spells needed, nothing).

 

By the way: all battle axes are annihilating. An axe like Rimecutter is good for a one handed rogue.

Nice options for a one-handed crit-rogue are (my favorites with a *):

 

Hammers:

Shatterstar (two damage types, annihilating and 1.0 secs of interrupt)

Godansthunyr* (two damage types, stun on crit and higher interrupt value: 0.75 instead of 0.5 secs)

 

Axes:

Rimecutter* (speed, annihilating)

Edge of Reason (draining, annihilating)

Wodewys (spell chance Nature's Mark, annihilating)

We Toki* (overbearing, annihilating)

 

Flails:

Unforgiven (realiable, speed, extra 10% burning lash)

Starcaller* (reliable, extra 10% burning lash, stunning, Minor Missiles on crit)

 

Spears:

Cladhaliath* (+5 ACC, stunning + vicious or coordinating - if you flank a lot the latter is better)

 

Rapiers:

Sword of Daenysis* (+5 ACC, rending, speed)

 

Stilettos:

Bleak Fang (spell striking: Touch of Rot, rending, 3 DR bypass)

Azureith's Stiletto (spell striking: Jolting Touch, 3 DR bypass)

 

Sabres:

Resolution (reliable, annihilating, sharp)

Purgatory (drainig, annihilation, sharp)

 

Small, light weapons will do the best dps in the game over the course of a whole playthrough with a rogue. They are not good early on because you'll have few dmg modifiers and will face high DR but they get better and better compared to heavy one handers like sabres. Even in the early game they will do more dps against soft targets but stink against armored foes. Lateron you have so many dmg mods as a rogue that you will still do more dps with a light weapon than with a heavier one handed.

 

The reason why they do more dps is because they are a lot faster and speed is a multiplicativy damage bonus while most of the other bonuses are only additive (except lashes and wouding).  Highest dps in the game does Drawn in Spring because it also has wounding. 

 

Let's look a the Sword of Daenysis that comes with speed and is rending. With Outlander's Frenzy, Gauntlets of Swift Action, Durgan Steel and Padded Armor and 15 DEX it will strike every 30 frames with 3 DR bypass.

At the same time Purgatory will strike every 57 frames.

The Sword of Daenysis will be twice as fast! That's 100% more strikes or +100% multiplicative damage. Even with higher base damage damage per hit and the additive damage bonuses like annihilation that adds 6.75 damage per strike and sharpness which adds 2.7 damage Purgatory will not reach that dps unless you meet foes with very high DR (I guess 20+). 

But as I said: in the early game it can be frustrating because you don't cfrit that often and also your low damage compared to solid DR will result in whimpy numbers. But if you hang on you will see that it's good.

 

Here another comparison of one handed Sword of Daenysis and one handed Resolution with Padded Armor and 15 DEX in the early game without any speed buffs:

Sword of Daenysis:  48 frames

Resolution: 82 frames

Still a significant difference, but most of it will be eaten by DR unless you crit a lot (here one handed style comes in very handy), have DR bypass (like this rapier has) and/or target squishies, then the rapier is a lot better in terms of dps althoug it doesn't seem like it.

 

My favorites for a one handed rogue would be:

1. Sword of Daenysis (because a single handed rapier looks cool, has +5 ACC, fits a rogue, you can get it very early and it's one of the best dps options) or
2. Starcaller. Since that comes very late I would use Gaun's Share first (helps with survivability), then Unforgiven (maybe the best dps option for a rogue in the game if you ignore crush resistant/immune enemies). I just think the stun on crit of Starcaller, paired with high attack speed, is great.

 

The other options are also nice. That's just my personal preference

[mosspit]

Lol I just got the Annihilating mod from wiki. Apparently that is not updated. Oh well.

[Moneo]

I agree with Boeroer that rogues have great synergy with light fast-hitting one-handed weapons. Rogues' damage boni can mitigate low base damage of these weapons. But the best way to exploit this is to go dual-wield.

 

When you go one-handed, you aim to land heaviest crits upon the toughest of your foes. That's why I recommended an annihillating weapon. Armed with this weapon, your rogue can bring down those cans of preservatives quite quickly. All and all, enemies with low DR are not a serious problem for a full-party. 

 

BTW, I forgot about the axes. I've just never used them. Rimecutter is a decent thing, if you manage to obtain it, it's a bit random, whereas you can buy Shatterstar quite early in the game.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Moneo

[Blades of Vanatar]

My current run has a one-handed Rogue using the stiletto Misery's End. She is by far my biggest damage dealer, almost doubling my Barb and Monk. I use my wiz for CC, my Priest for buffing/healing, my Shieldbearer for buffing party defenses. Keeping both the Monk and Barb with lower DR armor allows for the AI to not swamp my Hand and Key wearing Rogue. She crits constantly.

 

One hand is completely viable and an excellent choice if you party synergizes with the Rogue. My worry is Bosses but with both a Wiz and Priest in my Party I am sure I will overcome them.

 

When running full parties most builds will be successful IF you build your overall party to work together. Choose wisely...

[Nail]

I like dual wielding Godansthunyr (Helwax Mold)

[Boeroer]

I don't think that wielding two Godanythunyrs is worth it - except for the looks of course. You will have enough attack speed to chain-stun with one and the other one can be Shatterstar. If you use a strike like Crippling Strike or Blinding Strike and crit with Godansthunyr in the offhand (which comes first when doing a Full Attack) you will instantly have Deathblows and a very high crit chance with the annihilating Shatterstar on the second strike. It's a good combo so I wouldn't want to use the precious Helwax Mold for a very slight improvement (if any). If it's a weapon I wanted to clone I would pick Drawn in Spring I guess.

 

Drawn in SPring is also a nice choice for a one handed rogue. One could start with March Steel Dagger, maybe try out Aattuuk and later use Drawn in Spring. I don't like the Unlabored Blade too much but maybe that is also an option. Daggers have the additional advantage that you can not only get +5 ACC from use but also +4 ACC  from Flick of the Wrist.

Daggers are also a good backup option for rapiers and vice versa.

[Braven]

Over time, you may get more criticals by duel-wielding just because the faster you attack, the more total attacks you have and thus have more opportunities to critically hit. I am not sure the math on this though.

 

This is particularly true with rogues who already have hit-to-crit conversions making slightly lower accuracy still work. This works best after durgan steel which provides a big boost in both speed and crit conversion.

 

Another option, if you want to stun, is to have a weapon with the disorient enchant in your other hand (or a friendly party member attacking the same enemies). This reduces all enemy defenses helping you both land the crit and pass the followup fortitude check while still allowing your attack speed to not suffer. Strikehard is good for this since it also has the speed enchant. If you place it in your primary weapon slot, all of the rogue’s many full attacks will have a lower recovery time since only the primary weapon’s recovery is checked. Sadly, the offhand weapon attacks first so the debuff doesn’t happen until after the full attack completes if they didn’t already have it.

 

If you want only one weapon, for roleplaying purposes or just change of pace, stunning is good. There are some, but they are all available pretty late in the game. A great thing with stunning is that it helps activate sneak attacks and deathblows now. Otherwise, I would just do a small one-hander with speed. There is a dagger and rapier available early that fit a rogue well thematically. Their is also a draining stiletto and rapier. Again, looks great and while lower DPS, it helps survivability. Draining weapons work best with high, non-lash, damage and works pretty good with rogues.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Braven

[Nail]

I don't think that wielding two Godanythunyrs is worth it - except for the looks of course.

 

I just like war hammers due it's universal damage options crush / pierce and that's one category in weapon specialization, plus might stacks, so it's +2 mig.

[Boeroer]

Yes, but as I said I don't think it's that much better than Shatterstar (or Strike Hard) + Godansthunyr to justify the use of the Helwax Mold (for me I mean). Only thing that bothers me is  that Godanythunyr looks so much different than Strike Hard and Shatterstar. While the latter looks more "convervative" and simple, Godansthunyr looks like something from Final Fantasy.

 

By the way there are two hammers that share the same 3D-model but use different colors and look good with Godansthunyr: Haba's Hammer and Jarpie's Warhammer. Both are only excemtional hammers and have nothing unique except the looks. They can be bought at Vincent Dwellier in the CRPG. I often use them as backup weapon set against certain enemies and will have enchanted them accordingly (e.g. beast slaying + shocking lash and primordial slaying + freezing lash or whatever).  

Edited October 10, 2017 by Boeroer

[Lampros]

 

I don't think that wielding two Godanythunyrs is worth it - except for the looks of course.

 

I just like war hammers due it's universal damage options crush / pierce and that's one category in weapon specialization, plus might stacks, so it's +2 mig.

 

 

I love my Godansthnyr, too, and I was tempted to do the same. But I think Boerer is right here, so I duplicated Little Savior instead. Having +10 to all your Defenses for everyone is just too much to ignore.

[Boeroer]

I think that's one of the best ways to use the Helwax Mold

[Nail]

I hate situations when wearing Little Savior you get dominated / charmed and it provides +10 resistances to your enemies, even after dominated / charmed effect is over...

I've reported this issue long ago, but I guess PoE I is no longer supported regarding fixes and such things.

[Kaylon]

I hate situations when wearing Little Savior you get dominated / charmed and it provides +10 resistances to your enemies, even after dominated / charmed effect is over...

I've reported this issue long ago, but I guess PoE I is no longer supported regarding fixes and such things.

If I remember well, if you switch your weapon set, the enemies will lose their buff.

[Boeroer]

Does it go away when you change weapon set after the enemies reflipped? Good tip.

 

That's the thing with all passive buffs you apply on charmed/dominated foes: they don't go away after the enemies flip back. It's the worst thing with Take the Hit, but the Zealous Auras or herald also have this issue. The best solution would that charmed/dominated enemies don't profit from buffs at all. I mean you can't use things like Ectopsychic Echo or Amplifies Wave on them - so why do they get your buffs? That's neither fish nor fowl.

[Boeroer]

I hate situations when wearing Little Savior you get dominated / charmed and it provides +10 resistances to your enemies, even after dominated / charmed effect is over...

I've reported this issue long ago, but I guess PoE I is no longer supported regarding fixes and such things.

You mean +5 I guess?

[Lampros]

I hate situations when wearing Little Savior you get dominated / charmed and it provides +10 resistances to your enemies, even after dominated / charmed effect is over...

I've reported this issue long ago, but I guess PoE I is no longer supported regarding fixes and such things.

 

Indeed. But mind control prevention is my #1 preoccupation, so I always cast the necessary Prayers for those fights, and everyone has huge Will save as a back-up. And then I always have Liberating Exhortations, too.

[Braven]

With the paladin-specific shield included too, you can get +15 to all defenses, party wide.

 

While the added defense of two saviors is nice, you get it so late in the game (at least I don’t venture down there until near the end). I actually like that small shield that reflects ranged grazes the best of all shields. There are a ton of enemies that have some sort of ranged attack, be it arrows, spells, or slime. If you rush to ACT 3, and then go back and do white march and side quests, you will have it most of the game. Sure, it doesn’t help at all sometimes, but when it does, it really helps a lot. 100% graze-to-miss and A free attack. Granted, it is only helpful if your shield holder is the one targeted. Unless the AI is smart enough to avoid attacking them. In a full 6-party group, i guess the reliabilty of savior or outbound buckler is better.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Braven

[Lampros]

With the paladin-specific shield included too, you can get +15 to all defenses, party wide.

 

While the added defense of two saviors is nice, you get it so late in the game (at least I don’t venture down there until near the end). I actually like that small shield that reflects ranged grazes the best of all shields. There are a ton of enemies that have some sort of ranged attack, be it arrows, spells, or slime. If you rush to ACT 3, and then go back and do white march and side quests, you will have it most of the game. Sure, it doesn’t help at all sometimes, but when it does, it really helps a lot. 100% graze-to-miss and A free attack. Granted, it is only helpful if your shield holder is the one targeted. Unless the AI is smart enough to avoid attacking them. In a full 6-party group, i guess the reliabilty of savior or outbound buckler is better.

 

Yup; for boss fights, I have +15 Defense set-up going.

 

And I, too, use that reflect shield until I get Little Savior. In fact, I use 2 of them, since you can kill the monks after the quest to get a 2nd copy, LOL!