Political Ocean's 11

[smjjames]

Unborn not being thought of as human (even though it clearly is hence justifying abortion no matter the reason),  the 'gender is a social constrcut' nonsense. These all fly in the face of established science that they have managed to get people to  believe in through  brainwashing and propaganda and fake intellectual dishonest 'pseudo' social science.

 

 

P.S. republicans also are not innocent because along with what mentioned above, the fact they often don't believe in evolution is asanine.

 

Well, theres 'biological gender (which gets murky when you get into cases like having two X  chromosomes and one Y chromosome, and birth abnormalities)' and theres 'cultural gender', one isn't a social construct and one is. All in all, both that and abortion boil down to a cultural and political fight that ignores science on both sides in both my sense and your sense.

[Chilloutman]

 

 

 

I don't care what daily stormer take on is. I can judge it on my own, do you having problem forming your own opinions?

That was evidence of his point, though, not seeing how that in itself has much to do with forming his opinion. Didn't you link an article once from Daily Stormer ?

Not sure, I am not US citizen and I really don't follow US media, I might have linked it once

 

Not sure what evidence it was, that some jerk was happy about what Trump said? Don't go there, or I will use some jerk who murdered someone cheering about BLM...

Well I am just guessing it is meant to show how Trump is emboldening them and presumably he doesn't mind it all. Dude is too weasely, the vague mentions of plans or general statements so he can't really be pressed. Does at least have his surrogates treat him like an Oracle though

 

 

Yeah seems like one side is not happy until all white people are labelled as trash and all other prised as enrichment (except Asians)

[Ben No.3]

So I was in Berlin recently. We have a huge and quite well done Holocaust Memorial there. A far right politician from the right wing of the (already hard right) AfD has criticised that it stands. He didn’t even explicitly propagated its takedown. And he already got into deep ****.

 

Now I don’t recall any monument for the slaves I’m Washington. Or for the natives. I do know you have a lot of confed monuments in the south. And I’m my saying that’s like putting up a monument of Hitler. But it is like putting up one of Rommel. And I believe Trump is quite fond of Lee for being his Rommel, no?

[Chilloutman]

So I was in Berlin recently. We have a huge and quite well done Holocaust Memorial there. A far right politician from the right wing of the (already hard right) AfD has criticised that it stands. He didn’t even explicitly propagated its takedown. And he already got into deep ****.

 

Now I don’t recall any monument for the slaves I’m Washington. Or for the natives. I do know you have a lot of confed monuments in the south. And I’m my saying that’s like putting up a monument of Hitler. But it is like putting up one of Rommel. And I believe Trump is quite fond of Lee for being his Rommel, no?

 

Its true that new right wing parties are raising around Europe and I am sad for it as well. But its because established parties just don't want to tackle immigration at all :/

[Hurlshort]

So I was in Berlin recently. We have a huge and quite well done Holocaust Memorial there. A far right politician from the right wing of the (already hard right) AfD has criticised that it stands. He didn’t even explicitly propagated its takedown. And he already got into deep ****.

 

Now I don’t recall any monument for the slaves I’m Washington. Or for the natives. I do know you have a lot of confed monuments in the south. And I’m my saying that’s like putting up a monument of Hitler. But it is like putting up one of Rommel. And I believe Trump is quite fond of Lee for being his Rommel, no?

 

Both the Smithsonian and the Civil Rights Museum have sections devoted to slavery.

[Gfted1]

Now I don’t recall any monument for the slaves I’m Washington.

I see you've specifically narrowed the possible results to the 68.34 square miles that comprises "Washington" (winkwink) but heres a slave memorial at Mt. Vernon.

[ShadySands]

Even Benedict Arnold has a monument... well his boot does

 

The Latest: VP: Spain ‘gives us no option’ but to secede

[Elerond]

 

^See? Normalizing.

 

Geez, lucky you didn't heard Churchill

 

 

Churchill was one big communist supporter who should have been hanged with other war criminals   

[Malcador]

Or at least sent to live in Australia

[Ben No.3]

 

Now I don’t recall any monument for the slaves I’m Washington.

I see you've specifically narrowed the possible results to the 68.34 square miles that comprises "Washington" (winkwink) but heres a slave memorial at Mt. Vernon.

I respect the effort. But I don’t think that’s quite the scale we’re talking about

 

[Ben No.3]

 

So I was in Berlin recently. We have a huge and quite well done Holocaust Memorial there. A far right politician from the right wing of the (already hard right) AfD has criticised that it stands. He didn’t even explicitly propagated its takedown. And he already got into deep ****.

 

Now I don’t recall any monument for the slaves I’m Washington. Or for the natives. I do know you have a lot of confed monuments in the south. And I’m my saying that’s like putting up a monument of Hitler. But it is like putting up one of Rommel. And I believe Trump is quite fond of Lee for being his Rommel, no?

Both the Smithsonian and the Civil Rights Museum have sections devoted to slavery.

And that’s great! But you will agree with me that that is very different from a monument. A museum offers education to anyone interested. A monument is there to be seen. And don’t you think the slaves deserve something on the scale of Lincoln’s monument?

[Gfted1]

I respect the effort. But I don’t think that’s quite the scale we’re talking about

 

[img=http://www.berlin.citysam.de/fotos-berlin-0/berlin/regierungsviertel/holocaust-mahnmal-9.jpg

"Are there any monuments to slaves?"

"Yeah, heres one."

"Not big enough."

 

[Ben No.3]

 

So I was in Berlin recently. We have a huge and quite well done Holocaust Memorial there. A far right politician from the right wing of the (already hard right) AfD has criticised that it stands. He didn’t even explicitly propagated its takedown. And he already got into deep ****.

 

Now I don’t recall any monument for the slaves I’m Washington. Or for the natives. I do know you have a lot of confed monuments in the south. And I’m my saying that’s like putting up a monument of Hitler. But it is like putting up one of Rommel. And I believe Trump is quite fond of Lee for being his Rommel, no?

Its true that new right wing parties are raising around Europe and I am sad for it as well. But its because established parties just don't want to tackle immigration at all :/

No doubt that was the trigger. But the causes are much more deep rooted... the lack of any real democracy in the EU, the growing wealth gap, the (possible) disappearance of jobs due to digitalisation, high unemployment levels and stagnant wages with rising costs of living, the aftermath of the financial crisis, the shrinking of the state apparatus (and thus of state services), the high degree of similarity between the big parties, and so on and so forth.

It had to retaliate against the establishment at some point. I hope that point has already reached its height... I wouldn’t particularly like it if the far right grows even bigger.

[Ben No.3]

 

I respect the effort. But I don’t think that’s quite the scale we’re talking about

 

[img=http://www.berlin.citysam.de/fotos-berlin-0/berlin/regierungsviertel/holocaust-mahnmal-9.jpg

"Are there any monuments to slaves?"

"Yeah, heres one."

"Not big enough."

hah! Fair enough

 

You know what I mean. That stone is barley the size of a tombstone. Certainly not enough to give an appropriate impression of the misery it represents. If you will ever get the chance to walk through these stones in Berlin, you’ll understand what I mean... they get higher and more maze like, and it does convey a very powerful message.

Edited October 25, 2017 by Ben No.3

[213374U]

The Latest: VP: Spain ‘gives us no option’ but to secede

 

Man, I am so sick and tired of this circus. There is going to be no secession because they lack the most essential thing any state needs to exist: the ability to collect taxes. As it is, the Catalan public servants' payroll is directly managed by the central government. They also do not have a proper border protection agency, much less the capacity to organize and equip an army. Their strategic infrastructures and services are either bankrupt or in private hands. It's a joke. Not even the most radical separatists can answer how that would actually work, when pressed.

 

It's all grandstanding and posturing, a smokescreen being used by both sides to hide the rampant mismanagement and corruption that have crashed the economy (both Catalan and Spanish) with no survivors. It's infuriating because the barely closeted fascists in power here have managed to embolden and strengthen a separatist movement that has historically been marginal and turn the separatist cause into a sort of resistance movement against centralist authoritarianism, embraced by a large portion of Catalan society that never wanted secession to begin with.

 

The crooks that have caused this are going to keep wrapping themselves in flags to deflect criticism of their own incompetence and plunder, and take full advantage of a manufactured crisis that helps them self-perpetuate in power in the face of a growing sentiment that politicians are parasites. And -as usual- it's the little people that are going to get hurt, either by being on the wrong side of riot police charges or by having their living standards lowered even further. Man, **** this ****.

[Hurlshort]

Monuments typically honor an event or a person. While I'm certainly not opposed to monuments to slavery in the US, I can see why there are small ones scattered across the country instead of a massive one in one place. In a lot of ways I consider it more powerful to have a specific monument to Mount Vernon slavery on the site where it existed.

[HoonDing]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5012349/Foreigners-banned-buying-houses-New-Zealand.html

 

 

 

Populist powerbroker Winston Peters - who campaigned on decreasing immigration - said New Zealand was ‘no longer for sale’

based antipodeans

[Guard Dog]

The bigger the monument the greater the contrition I guess.   

[Malcador]

The bigger the monument the greater the contrition I guess.

Well, yeah. Works that way with praise, no?

[Zoraptor]

Thankfully I have the Daily Stormer on hand to explain why Trump's words were a massive problem:

 

Thing is, when anarchists are smashing up banks and starbucks then the media thinks they're terrible, violent thugs, dangerous. When they're smashing up fascists they're suddenly great though. Same group of people, same philosophy etc.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5012349/Foreigners-banned-buying-houses-New-Zealand.html

 

Populist powerbroker Winston Peters - who campaigned on decreasing immigration - said New Zealand was ‘no longer for sale’

based antipodeans

 

Daily Fail would love WINston. He's the closest to one of their guys we have. He's not really populist though, he just appeals to a specific segment of the population, most of whom would read the Daily Mail and which is a pretty small segment of the population overall. Critically, many of his positions- including closing immigration loop holes- were supported by the very socially liberal Labour Party even before they became the government; and the refugee quota is actually going up.

 

As with many other places we have a genuine problem with an overheated housing market pushed up by unrestrained foreign investment. When the average house price is 25x the average wage it's a bit of a problem and increasing prices are not due to genuine demand. There are also well known and ignored loop holes with immigration where 'skilled' immigrants include occupations that aren't skilled- usually advertised locally with dreadful conditions so as to discourage locals from applying; employment consultants will then charge the skilled immigrant fees to place them, and since they can easily be deported if they lose their job that leads to them often working under illegal conditions as they cannot complain and their 'skilled' jobs sometimes being things like, literally, waiting tables- and there are a plethora of dodgy 'academic' institutions that exist to hand out student visas, then working visas, then permanent residency. With immigration consultants charging fees for that as well. Previous government loved all of that since it made the books look good on the face of it, no matter what the long term problems were. And if you complained about it you were racist.

 

Ex government got pinged under their own copyright law yesterday for 700k odd for using a knock off version of Eminem's 'Lose Yourself' during the last election. The name of the knock off was 'Eminemesque' and they thought it was, direct quote from the guy who is world famous for being hit in the face with a marital aid on live tv, "pretty legal". Sums that bunch of clowns up perfectly and I'm not sure I've stopped laughing about it yet.

[majestic]

The bigger the monument the greater the contrition I guess. 

 

Meh, there's a certain irony in Americans arguing against size of all things. Isn't bigger is better a quintessential US pilosophy?

 

The evul gubernment aside.

[injurai]

At what point should monuments be guarded for historic reasons.

 

Imo, speaking from bias for outcome, tear down all confederate statues, save all ancient monuments.

 

Some of those monuments in the middle east may be of tyrants, but I defend them none-the-less. But if some of those confederate monuments manage to stay up for another 500 years, then my very same arguments for preserving antiquity start to apply.

 

Only conclusion I really have is to strike while the iron is hot. But what time frame that is is subjective, further this conclusion is somewhat anti-stoic saying it's better to act now then wait and then not be able to tear down a symbol because you've made it into an artifact.

[smjjames]

The vast majority of those confederate statues aren't even artifacts of the Civil War though and were put up for a completely different reason than simply memoralizing the Civil War. So, calling them artifacts is dubious unless you put them in the proper context, which isn't the Civil War.

[injurai]

I wouldn't call them that now, but if they get old enough I'm not sure how you could get around them gaining that status. Plenty of historic statues and monuments were put up for dubious reasons long after the era from which they draw significance.

 

Maybe I'm not painting the dilemma. For contemporary monuments I'd make a moral claim as to why they are in bad moral character. When it ages it's in many ways no longer your monument, it's someone else in the past. It becomes of interest for history, thus the claim to take it down tends to lose moral weight and turns into one that would be complicit in erasing an artifact of history. Certainly for confederate monuments we can tear down like 1000 before they are at risk of vanishing, but the dilemma still holds and I think is better understood if you run the thought experiment on something that is rare and thus at risk of vanishing.

 

I certainly wouldn't want a statue of Alexander the Great to be erased from time today. Yet he killed hundreds of thousands of people.

[Hurlshort]

They aren't destroying the Civil War memorials though, they were moving them. I believe a number of them were going to museums.