Deadfire vs Divinity OS 2

[Climhazzard]

DoS and DoS 2 are both great games.  DoS 2 gives you a lot to think about tactically, though most battles for me devolve into fire...  everywhere.  They both have some problems that Pillars doesn't have though.  Like initiative problems and a lack of body blocking.  Namely, in Pillars it's 10x easier to use positioning tactics that involve choke points (would be even easier with a proper stand your ground button... hint hint).  

 

I feel like the combat pacing in Pillars is better, nothing is going to come along and two shot you, while in DoS getting 2 shot was common.  DoS 2 isn't as bad but there are still a few offenders.

 

They both have ironman modes but in DoS party wipes from traps or any number of things was a pretty common occurrence so you'd have had to have been a real masochist to enjoy that.  DoS 2 tones down the number of ways to instantly party wipe but they're still there.

 

In the original DoS melee also felt like an exercise in masochism, but DoS 2 improved that aspect a lot.

 

DoS 1 and 2 both are kings in the area of environmental effects.  I don't expect PoE 2 will topple that.

 

Both pillars and divinity have depth when it comes to building your characters, though I'm biased towards Pillars in that regard (I like it better).

 

Neither Divinity takes itself seriously, between pet pal and all the humor wrote into the games.  I prefer the serious tone of Pillars but that's just my taste.

 

Anyways, mechanically (combat and character building) I prefer Pillars of Eternity over both DoS and DoS 2, DoS 2 certainly has it's moments though.  I can't really see PoE 2 not really being an improvement over the original what with multi classing and sub classes, so most likely PoE 2 will be my favorite of the lot.

 

EDIT:  One thing I forgot to mention, which may be the biggest point of all, is itemization.  Pillars is mostly about hand placed items while Divinity is all about randomly generated.  DoS 2 is actually really bad in the itemization department though because items stats inflate so fast that you only ever get to enjoy a good unique or whatever for a single level and you can't wear whatever armor looks the coolest on your character.  In this regard I like Pillars far more than Divinity.

Edited September 24, 2017 by Climhazzard

[Wormerine]

 

 

True fact: DOS and DOS 2 are more hardcore than Pillars.

Maybe so, as long as you explain what more hardcore means.

 

I am!

 

*can

[Sedrefilos]

 

 

 

True fact: DOS and DOS 2 are more hardcore than Pillars.

Maybe so, as long as you explain what more hardcore means.

 

I am!

 

*can

 

No, I mean I am explaining, right there at my post

[daven]

 

 

 

 

True fact: DOS and DOS 2 are more hardcore than Pillars.

Maybe so, as long as you explain what more hardcore means.

 

I am!

 

*can

 

No, I mean I am explaining, right there at my post

 

Hardcore - broken bricks, rubble, or similar solid material used as a filling or foundation in building.

[Wormerine]

 

 

 

 

True fact: DOS and DOS 2 are more hardcore than Pillars.

 

Maybe so, as long as you explain what more hardcore means.

I am!

*can

No, I mean I am explaining, right there at my post

lol I see.

 

1) it doesn't hold your hand.

2) it doesn't highlight interactive objects, while it highlight everything else.

 

I don't know, second one seems more like UI inconsistency rather than game design. Granted, there was one instance where a chest was hidden in/among bushes (might be more but I just missed them) but I would argue that stumbling into it wasn't nearly as rewarding as to force players to hover over every table and shelf to see if they can open it. A minor annoyance - a bit like I appreciate mod for XCOM2 which shows Pod activation tiles and their overwatch range - it's not like it gives you information you are not supposed to have, you just don't have to waste time counting tiles.

 

Point no. 1 - fair enough. Though I feel it is more a case of focus and polish than "hardcore" design. That is why I was curious how do you define "hardcore". In my mind "hard core" means that it takes someone who is very much into the genre or this type of game to appreciate it - not something you can just pick up and play that easily. I feel DOS is very elegant and very approachable. Mechanics are easy to understand, world quite intuitive to interact with. Game is complex but "hardcore"?

[Sedrefilos]

@Wormerine, I guess you'll have to play it and see for yourself whether the game is hardcore or not (for you)
I, myself, consider it as one.

[Guest Blutwurstritter]

I usually play with mouse but if you use a controller in D:OS 2, you can hold the move button and get a circle which shows you every active element in the circle. This is extremely useful and i am not sure why it is not possible to achieve this with mouse + keyboard. This also shows you hidden switches or elements which are easy to miss. Overall it is playable with a controller and i would recommend to try it if you are annoyed by the camera and object highlighting. I rarely touch controllers and only did so because D:OS EE offered local coop but i was positively surprised how the controls with a game pad were implemented.

 

 

I really don't like Original Sin's camera and the whole 3D frills (I also don't lie the looks, but usually I can just ignore that and be happy).

 

I tried to play it, spend dozens of hours generating my characters (another thing I don't like too much is that you start with two) - and it took me sooo long to adapt to the camera and controls. Sure, I'm getting older and those things take longer for me than when I was younger - still annoying.

Then you can't highlight containers and I had to constantly hover over the floor not to miss them all the time...

I stopped playing just because I started to hate the camera and the controls so much. Funny because normally I like turn-based rpgs (anyone tried Blackguards? It's not too great but I still like it) and even some other 3D action rpgs with candy-graphics like Torchlight and so on. This one was a huge disappointment for me. Damn I backed OS II...

 

I had the same issues with Dragon Age: Origins, but I got around it and adapted more quickly and then I enjoyed it immensely. But this time I either didn't have the time or the patience to adapt to this (in my opinion) fiddly mess.

[firkraag888]

I didn't care that much for D:OS I, but I must admit I'm having a blast with the sequel. The characters are funny, well acted, and interesting enough for you to care. The exploration is fantastic, the animals are great, and the diverse number of solutions to each encounter and quest is brilliant. It really capitalises on its strengths. I imagine PoE II will have abit more serious tone to it, better writing, character progression, and more focus on quest resolution outside combat than D:OS II. Atleast I hope that is the case, since I think that is the strong sides of the first game.

But man, what a great time to play rpgs. ^_^

You should play warhammer total war 2. Downloaded it yesterday and so far so good. The closest thing to a modern day "Warcraft 4" I have come across. I have found it to be more enjoyable then dos2 so far.

 

To Rate out of ten games I have played in recent times:

 

Pillars - 9.5

Gta5 - 9

Doom (new) - 8

Total war 2 - 8

Divinity os 2 - 4.5

Tyranny - 2

Torment tides - 0

 

Dos2 combat is WAY to slow and clunky for me. The fights drag on for ages. More like a very slow game of chess then an RPG. What really annoys me about dos 2 is that after spending 40-50 minutes in a slow paced long drawn out combat you go straight into another one, then another one and it just goes on and on.

 

I can't stand that because after winning a big hard boss fight for example I have a feeling off " phew thank god that is over". Combat becomes to much of a tedious chore and I'm just glad to get it over and done with instead of enjoying it.

Edited September 30, 2017 by firkraag888

[Doppelschwert]

I just started playing D:OS2 yesterday and wasn't really amazed. Clunky controls, too many (useless) items in the gameworld, no proper highlight function, and, judging from the game's wiki, a really boring character system. The talents all sounded boring to me, and attributes are more or less just linear upgrades for really simple things (damage/health) with several dump stats. The game also doesn't care to explain anything - I started as undead and got told to mask myself properly, but how I am supposed/able to do this is beyond me so far.

 

I'm glad I only bought the game via kickstarter and didn't have to pay the retail price; at this rate, I'll just go back to playing something else until PoE2 releases, which looks absolulety amazing in contrast.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Doppelschwert

[firkraag888]

I just started playing D:OS2 yesterday and wasn't really amazed. Clunky controls, too many (useless) items in the gameworld, no proper highlight function, and, judging from the game's wiki, a really boring character system. The talents all sounded boring to me, and attributes are more or less just linear upgrades for really simple things (damage/health) with several dump stats. The game also doesn't care to explain anything - I started as undead and got told to mask myself properly, but how I am supposed/able to do this is beyond me so far.

 

I'm glad I only bought the game via kickstarter and didn't have to pay the retail price; at this rate, I'll just go back to playing something else until PoE2 releases, which looks absolulety amazing in contrast.

I agree. It is selling well because it has been "dumbed down" to appeal to a broader market where as pillars of eternity appeals mainly to former pen and paper dungeons and dragons players. When I say dos2 is dumbed down compared to pillars I mean:

 

- it is far more goofy so little kids can also appeal to playing it.

- more colourful scenery, so it looks pretty, in a kind a Rosie girlie way

- combing the elements eg fire, water, earth in the combat system are the main battle tactics as opposed to outright weapons and magicical power

- the narrative writing is sooooooooo childish. A lot of the quests involve go to x to collect a box from y.

- childish goofy, pathetic monsters to fight, eg giant frogs, talking crabs, big turtles

 

It is a dumbed down RPG that has been made with every attempt at making it less " dark" to appeal to a wider audience. Anyone from 6 year olds to grandpas would probably be included in there target audience.

Edited September 30, 2017 by firkraag888

[Wormerine]

It is a dumbed down RPG that has been made with every attempt at making it less " dark" to appeal to a wider audience. Anyone from 6 year olds to grandpas would probably be included in there target audience.

:-D more colourful/playful = "dumbed down"? That's an odd logic. It is dumbed down from what? Original Divinity? The first game was rather silly.

[Guest Blutwurstritter]

So if i paint my chess figurines in a nice color, i get a dumbed down version of chess ? Sounds dumb to me.

 

 

 

I just started playing D:OS2 yesterday and wasn't really amazed. Clunky controls, too many (useless) items in the gameworld, no proper highlight function, and, judging from the game's wiki, a really boring character system. The talents all sounded boring to me, and attributes are more or less just linear upgrades for really simple things (damage/health) with several dump stats. The game also doesn't care to explain anything - I started as undead and got told to mask myself properly, but how I am supposed/able to do this is beyond me so far.

I'm glad I only bought the game via kickstarter and didn't have to pay the retail price; at this rate, I'll just go back to playing something else until PoE2 releases, which looks absolulety amazing in contrast.

I agree. It is selling well because it has been "dumbed down" to appeal to a broader market where as pillars of eternity appeals mainly to former pen and paper dungeons and dragons players. When I say dos2 is dumbed down compared to pillars I mean:

- it is far more goofy so little kids can also appeal to playing it.
- more colourful scenery, so it looks pretty, in a kind a Rosie girlie way
- combing the elements eg fire, water, earth in the combat system are the main battle tactics as opposed to outright weapons and magicical power
- the narrative writing is sooooooooo childish. A lot of the quests involve go to x to collect a box from y.
- childish goofy, pathetic monsters to fight, eg giant frogs, talking crabs, big turtles

It is a dumbed down RPG that has been made with every attempt at making it less " dark" to appeal to a wider audience. Anyone from 6 year olds to grandpas would probably be included in there target audience.

 

Edited September 30, 2017 by Blutwurstritter

[Sedrefilos]

 

It is a dumbed down RPG that has been made with every attempt at making it less " dark" to appeal to a wider audience. Anyone from 6 year olds to grandpas would probably be included in there target audience.

:-D more colourful/playful = "dumbed down"? That's an odd logic. It is dumbed down from what? Original Divinity? The first game was rather silly.

 

Firkraag888 logic. The new, dumbed down, version of Sensuki is here

[Varana]

Well, everyone knows that the Egyptians dumbed down cave painting by making it more colourful and pretty.   

 

Combining four elements in various ways with physical damage and blessings or curses is also - obviously! - much more dumb than, and I quote, "outright weapons and magicical power".

 

I'm really quite shocked, though, that there was no mention of consoles.

[Sedrefilos]

Well, everyone knows that the Egyptians dumbed down cave painting by making it more colourful and pretty. 

 

And then the Phoenicians dumbed down symbols to alphabet. They made it more accessible to the wider dumb audience. They were total sellouts duude 1.5/10

[firkraag888]

Haha

[TheisEjsing]

Why would you call it being dumbed down Firkraag? Do you know it was meant to be darker? Do you have information that proves, that they had a grognard version with Gold Box levels of user friendlyness planned?
There are some pretty dark **** in D:OS II. But the overall tone is supposed to be enjoyable for more than just a few basement dwellers. And about the monsters, have you opened up a D&D monster manual lately? Your criticism lacks substance. It is possible for the artstyle not to be your cup of tea, and still not be "dumbed down" for popamole masses.

[Sedrefilos]

Dumbed down = what doesen't match my aesthetic preferences, see "girlie". Frik-logic.

[Hertzila]

I've been playing Divinity: Original Sin 2 with a group and I have to say, I doubt I'd enjoy playing it much on my own. The only reason I even bought it was because my friends invited me to join in their campaign.

The combat controls are a bit too finicky and loose, resulting in collateral damage every now and then. The narrative design has a bit too much homour in it for my tastes. The main plot has not really gripped me and we're basically following the quest log in search of loot.

 

However, playing as a group, it's a fricking blast. Instead of being aggravating, the occasional friendly fire has been a slapstick comedy generator, a couple of exceptions aside. Stupid or bad humour moments are far more enjoyable when you can laugh about it in a group. While the game's own stories have not really gripped me, my groups own adventures and misdeeds have been pretty fun. The writing in stories is not the best but I find the combat and puzzle design to be great.

 

It helps that the slight finickyness aside, the combat is actually quite enjoyable. Playing around with afflictions and elements is engaging and offers a tactical side of combat I don't see often. Especially with a full four custom characters with a variety of skills. There aren't any limits to skill use either, which means that teleports are actually most useful for puzzle solving.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Hertzila

[Jaget80]

DO sin2 looks awsome but...the combat...armors counter everything is just plain stupid and bad.

[Fardragon]

You call PoE hardcore?! It has graphics! In colour!!

 

Clearly black an white text adventures are the only hardcore computer games!

[Sedrefilos]

DO sin2 looks awsome but...the combat...armors counter everything is just plain stupid and bad.

It adds a new layer in combat where you have to reduce armor first in order for your different status effects to apply. It's good because else you could dominate opponents in turn 1, especially if you were the one who initiated the combat. It's a strategic layer added to the tactical as well.

 

Now, some complain that this drags combat but in DOS2 there are no trash encounters. When combat starts is a combat encounter, just like a pnp rpg. You take your time and figure how to beat the opponents. There are no trash mobs here and there for you to plough through in order to get ti the "boss" fight. Every encounter is there for a reason and is designed to as such. This is rare for crpgs imo.

[Wormerine]

Now, some complain that this drags combat but in DOS2 there are no trash encounters. When combat starts is a combat encounter, just like a pnp rpg. You take your time and figure how to beat the opponents. There are no trash mobs here and there for you to plough through in order to get ti the "boss" fight. Every encounter is there for a reason and is designed to as such. This is rare for crpgs imo.

Mmmmm... now you are really making me want to give it a go. And I promised myself to be more responsible with money... ahh well, still have D:OS1 to beat, so I have some time to regain self control.

[smjjames]

Both are CRPGs and both have their own pluses and minuses and their ways of doing things, that's how I see it.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

I like a lot of things about DOS2. It's got much-improved writing over the prior Original Sin game, it has great encounter design and great turn-based tactical combat, and complex and intricate character progression / design that's going to give the game a lot of replayability over time.

 

The downside to it is that by about level fifteen I found myself spending more time sorting my inventory than I did playing the rest of the game. The randomly-generated loot system made me really miss PoE's designed items. 

 

 

Upshot, DOS2 is a great game but it's done more to whet my appetite for PoE2 than anything else that's come along recently. I am capable of playing two games!

 

 

 

 

DO sin2 looks awsome but...the combat...armors counter everything is just plain stupid and bad.

It adds a new layer in combat where you have to reduce armor first in order for your different status effects to apply. It's good because else you could dominate opponents in turn 1, especially if you were the one who initiated the combat. It's a strategic layer added to the tactical as well.

 

Now, some complain that this drags combat but in DOS2 there are no trash encounters. When combat starts is a combat encounter, just like a pnp rpg. You take your time and figure how to beat the opponents. There are no trash mobs here and there for you to plough through in order to get ti the "boss" fight. Every encounter is there for a reason and is designed to as such. This is rare for crpgs imo.

 

 

 

 

This is a really good way of describing the difference, yeah.

 

Divinity: Original Sin 2 has no trash encounters.

 

Pillars of Eternity 1 has no trash items.

 

You'd think that the second was less important than the first, but over the course of a game it starts to really matter.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy