Politics - Episode 9: The Lurking Fear

[Raithe]

Heh.

 

Game Theory and the two magic words that would help impeach Trump

 

A mildly amusing take on game theory and the prisoner's dilemma.

[Malcador]

Wonder who's next to jump ship.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Wonder who's next to jump ship.

Melania.

[Hurlshort]

It's ok everyone, the President was just joking about that police brutality stuff.

[Guard Dog]

We need 435 more him:

 

https://youtu.be/B2WolQJIiWg

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Killing the two party system would require a fundamental change to the US election system, one that I doubt legislators could pull off even if they were willing to. We're more likely to see the US collapse before that kind of reform is enacted.

[Guard Dog]

When we discuss the death of the two party system you are all thinking only in terms of the Presidency. There are 535 seats in Congress and almost 3k state wide elected offices where 3rd, 4th, even 5th parties can do a great deal of good in advancing agendas other than the one favored by the Democrats and Republicans. And it is one agenda despite all the noise they make. They both LOVE government power. And both LOVE being in control of that power. If any of the last eight elections had turned out differently, other than who is sitting on the Supreme Court, nothing would be much different. 

 

Of course everyone can be forgiven for thinking the Presidency in the end-all. The last three President's have just done whatever the f--k they pleased and Congress rolled over like a whipped puppy and let them. Congress needs to remember that they are the equal to the President. Sometimes they show signs of it, enough to give me some hope. But the D & R duopoly needs to be broken.

[BruceVC]

So Scaramucci is gone ostensibly because of what Kelly requested

 

Lets see how the White House is run under Kelly, he has 45 years service as a Marine and that can surely only improve things around general decorum ?

[Raithe]

 

Although to be fair, Trump is doing what he promised. He IS giving more jobs to Americans. It just happens to be one at a time, in the position of Communications Director.

[Malcador]

So Scaramucci is gone ostensibly because of what Kelly requested

 

Lets see how the White House is run under Kelly, he has 45 years service as a Marine and that can surely only improve things around general decorum ?

Don't have an overly rosy view of military folk.

[Raithe]

Lawsuit alleges Fox News and Trump supported created fake news story

[Wrath of Dagon]

May be NPR should be reporting on this instead: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/08/01/wasserman-schultz-under-pressure-to-testify-on-ex-it-aide-complaint-filed.html

[Raithe]

For the slight divergence from politics as such, Sarah Huckabee Sanders wearing a green dress on television is going down quite amusingly. The internet is showing just what its for as people have been turning the dress into a classic green screen and creating random images to go with it.

 

I'm pretty sure someones done the Titanic sinking as a clip.

[Guard Dog]

 

So Scaramucci is gone ostensibly because of what Kelly requested

 

Lets see how the White House is run under Kelly, he has 45 years service as a Marine and that can surely only improve things around general decorum ?

Don't have an overly rosy view of military folk.

 

Why is that? I'm curious.

[Ben No.3]

 

 

So Scaramucci is gone ostensibly because of what Kelly requested

 

Lets see how the White House is run under Kelly, he has 45 years service as a Marine and that can surely only improve things around general decorum ?

Don't have an overly rosy view of military folk.

Why is that? I'm curious.

because they know that power comes out of the barrel of a gun

[Chilloutman]

 

 

 

So Scaramucci is gone ostensibly because of what Kelly requested

 

Lets see how the White House is run under Kelly, he has 45 years service as a Marine and that can surely only improve things around general decorum ?

Don't have an overly rosy view of military folk.

 

Why is that? I'm curious.

 

because they know that power comes out of the barrel of a gun

 

crush with reality?

[Malcador]

 

 

So Scaramucci is gone ostensibly because of what Kelly requested

 

Lets see how the White House is run under Kelly, he has 45 years service as a Marine and that can surely only improve things around general decorum ?

Don't have an overly rosy view of military folk.

Why is that? I'm curious.

Well the idea that just because Kelly is a former Marine isn't going to mean he'll get Trump into shape. Soldiers can be as venal or kiss ass as everyone else, especially at high ranks I would imagine.

 

Then there's the sheep dog and sheep style nonsense but that stuff comes from useless meshback types so not much to be done there

[Guard Dog]

 

 

 

So Scaramucci is gone ostensibly because of what Kelly requested

 

Lets see how the White House is run under Kelly, he has 45 years service as a Marine and that can surely only improve things around general decorum ?

Don't have an overly rosy view of military folk.

Why is that? I'm curious.

Well the idea that just because Kelly is a former Marine isn't going to mean he'll get Trump into shape. Soldiers can be as venal or kiss ass as everyone else, especially at high ranks I would imagine.

 

Then there's the sheep dog and sheep style nonsense but that stuff comes from useless meshback types so not much to be done there

 

No, Kelly won't whip Trump into shape. Only Trump can do that and he does not strike me as the kind of man who oozes self control. And without a doubt all kinds can be found in military uniform. Even the bad kinds. In my own experience they seem to top out at Major and Staff Sergent in the Officer and NCO ranks respectively. One thing the military does better than any other organization I've ever been part of is reward competence and weed out incompetence. If you can rise to the General ranks then you can find your ass with either hand and are probably free of serious character flaws. 

 

But I took your comment as more of a general one rather than specifically applying to the current administration. That is why I was curious.

[injurai]

 

"Liberals now claim..."

 

I swear... more of the population could use a lesson on predicate logic. Anyone worth a damn on the front line of social commentary ought to hurdle that as the lowest bar.

 

#NotAll____

injurai Im glad you have been sticking around these forums, its always appreciated to read perspectives from different people 

 

I know the views around politics and similar subjects from all the regular members as I have been active on these forums for about 5 years. If you don't mind sharing can you summarize  your opinion on SJ or perhaps how you feel about the state of politics in Western countries 

 

I always like to understand how members feel about things like populism or the state of Democracy in the world

 

I have very liberal views on many topics but this is shaped by where I live and my commitment to addressing the Apartheid legacy in South Africa so I dont expect many people to understand where Im coming from  around ideology  from which is okay as we all have different life experiences 

 

 

@BruceVC

 

I didn't ignore this, I was just really busy. Thanks for the welcome. I'm here for Pillars but politics offer endless discussion to be had. Hopefully I'm not here too much, since politics can also be distracting. I do like that this community is small and thus more apt to tolerate diametric viewpoints without being too overtaken by the political crusading... I think...

 

I can't get all my views down, but I'm sure a lot of elements will come out in this.

 

As far as social justice goes, people mean very different things by it. Same for political correctness. It's hard not want justice in the social sphere, or correctness in the political sphere. So why might the two be decried? I think it always comes down to overreach, and those two ideas become associated said overreach. I'm not sure what all this would entail, but I feel there is some proper mode of engagement that one should always strive to observe. It probably changes with context. But finding the details of this seems like an open question in philosophy. Regardless, enough people just can't help but poison the well, and it often seems they do so bolster favor within the echo chamber that they service at the expense of everyone who is making the sacrifice to do the hard work in service of the greater community.

 

I could try to highlight certain behaviors, views, or actions that I find problematic so as to shed light on "what is wrong with society." That itself is interesting at times to learn what not to do. But the greater problem is that honestly describing those things leads to complexity, something that most people don't want to confront. Even scientist need a break from it, and take to simplistic messaging for things they deem "obvious." If even you do a good job at detailing the problem, what good is putting that to practice when you lack hindsight to know the situation at hand, and a non-negligible demographic of people respond well to your efforts in the slightest. Just one aspect though in this complex jumble is age. Differences in knowledge, wisdom, maturity, etc. all make it impossible to issue a single imperative over what should be done. Kids should learn to grow up, but they should also be allowed to make mistakes and recover. Those raising families and making inordinate sacrifices should be able to pass those benefits to their children. Those indulging in vice shouldn't spread their repercussions on others. Yet we also need to support people to help them recover, grow, improve. The more honest you get about the problem, the more it seems that the devil in the details are always left as personally responsibilities left to the individual. Some individuals want to take up the problem wholesale and use policy to fix things. Which always shifts the responsibilities off to others who are compelled to take action. But then the need to issue different imperatives leads the the identity politics game which is wrought with misguidance. If anything it seems age and class are about the only identities that really could merit separate policy and treatment (I think...) But mistreatment of others always drags in attempts to rectify those problems on account of what type of person was mistreated. Which cultivates both those seeking to implement honest protections through policy, and opportunists ready to play a power game while keeping a air of virtuosity in the eyes of their supporters. So even if the opportunist have a just ends, their means are anything but. Which even that gets justified as "playing the game", "live and let live", "nobody's perfect." Which are true at times.

 

There is a divide between what is really happening, and how things are being portrayed. The truth can be forever changed through unanimous reporting of spun messaging. You'd think that reality was more important to one's impression, but one's impression serves as their reality. At some point I think taking an honest look should eventually lead you to an impasse, but at the same time people with a far less refined view can throw themselves headfirst towards something and end up enacting real change for the better. Though modeling their behavior doesn't mean you'll succeed similarly.

 

I wouldn't say I've been on a tangent but I wouldn't disagree if you thought so, I just think that ultimately these things are embedded in a far more vast system. Issues seem to make more sense if you just jump in the thick of it all and engage how everyone else is engaging, which is to say the simplified (not because the people are, but the process forces them to be) manner. But when doing so I always have this feeling like the truth is orthogonal and I'm betraying a deeper value. Stepping outside of the established encampments of discourse leaves you individually vulnerable and intimidating to everyone to boot, and that's assuming you can even get things right or at least more right. Even suggesting indirectly that an entire group is wrong on something is sure to backfire more often then not. It seems to me often that the best ally to a cause is discarded in favor of the worst ally for the cause, someone that will stick around and not be pulled away by nuances or other causes. But... to enact change you often too to cooperate which means trusting that those you are working with share similar values. So once again back to square one, hitching yourself to a group.

 

I guess in all of this there is a lesson about absolutes and idealism and process and context. But ultimately I feel it's really about complexity and the poverty of our engagement of it. If we solve engineering complexity with a set of tools, why don't we solve politics with it. But oddly enough political science seems all but scientific. It's at least as much of a soft science as sociology. Economics is the real politics after all... and even that is questionably a science.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

So Scaramucci is gone ostensibly because of what Kelly requested

 

Lets see how the White House is run under Kelly, he has 45 years service as a Marine and that can surely only improve things around general decorum ?

Don't have an overly rosy view of military folk.

Why is that? I'm curious.

Well the idea that just because Kelly is a former Marine isn't going to mean he'll get Trump into shape. Soldiers can be as venal or kiss ass as everyone else, especially at high ranks I would imagine.

 

Then there's the sheep dog and sheep style nonsense but that stuff comes from useless meshback types so not much to be done there

 

No, Kelly won't whip Trump into shape. Only Trump can do that and he does not strike me as the kind of man who oozes self control. And without a doubt all kinds can be found in military uniform. Even the bad kinds. In my own experience they seem to top out at Major and Staff Sergent in the Officer and NCO ranks respectively. One thing the military does better than any other organization I've ever been part of is reward competence and weed out incompetence. If you can rise to the General ranks then you can find your ass with either hand and are probably free of serious character flaws. 

 

But I took your comment as more of a general one rather than specifically applying to the current administration. That is why I was curious.

 

I dont expect Kelly to change Trumps behavior, thats not going to happen and Trump studiously continues to do things that are considered controversial 

 

But there seem to be many things that are inconsistent at the White House under the Trump presidency. Things like contradictory public comments from different people, the various factions and who has direct access to Trump could be improved 

 

I think Kelly will bring discipline and hopefully curtail the chaos and bedlam we sometimes see around certain messages that come from WH

 

And my personal wish is for the Trump presidency to stop blaming and attacking the media ....its unnecessary and just creates hostility and this " us against them "  mentality 

[213374U]

One thing the military does better than any other organization I've ever been part of is reward competence and weed out incompetence.

Well played. Had me going there for a second.

[Raithe]

A female retired Marine officer running as Democrat for Congress in Kentucky.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcjG2fK7kNk

 

I guess we can say it takes a Marine to go for that sort of challenge.

[Malcador]

The Phantom is a pretty jet, in an ugly kind of way

[Hurlshort]

A female retired Marine officer running as Democrat for Congress in Kentucky.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcjG2fK7kNk

 

I guess we can say it takes a Marine to go for that sort of challenge.

 

That is a pretty fantastic pitch.

[Guard Dog]

 

One thing the military does better than any other organization I've ever been part of is reward competence and weed out incompetence.

Well played. Had me going there for a second.

 

I can't answer for things I did not see first hand. So to tell the truth I really can't say much about the other services either, just the one I was in. But n that one, incompetence was a definite hindrance to promotion.As were character flaws. Unfortunately being an assohle was not counted as a character flaw so we did have quite a few of those climb the ladder.