Cipher Question

[ColeTrain9192]

Hello all.

I'm towards the beginning of a Cipher run, and believe it or not, I've never played a Cipher before (I know, they're supposed to be amazing, but I'm just getting around to it). Now, I'm at the point where I need to start making some real commitments to what direction I'm going to take my character in, but I'm split between two:

1. Crazy Awesome DPS
2. Crazy Awesome Crowd-control

As you can see, either would be crazy awesome. But essentially, my character could go either way and, since I have zero experience with Ciphers, I was just wondering what the masses would suggest. Of the Cipher powers, which ones do you think are more effective, which ones work well with a party set-up (I'm probably going to stick mostly with Eder, Pallegina, Aloth, Durance, and Kana - I'm thinking of carrying this character over to Deadfire), etc.?

Just FYI, my build is as follows:

Meadow Folk

Might: 16
Constitution: 9
Dexterity: 10
Perception: 15
Intellect: 18
Resolve: 10

And I'm playing on Hard.

All suggestions are welcome.

[Piero]

The ±3% of might affect the auto-attack and damage powers, i do not know the maths so i can not tell there, but for the crowd-control, since the ±3% action speed does affect your powers, maybe is more effective to go high dexterity instead of might. I played a crowd-control wood elf cipher with 3 3 18 18 18 18(or something like that), and to experience the dps powers i used Grieving Mother.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Piero

[MasterCipher]

You can do both. Prioritize INT, DEX, and MIG This the order I suggest of powers to take.

 

tenuous grasp

eyestrike

mindwave

 

mental binding

whispers of treason

psychovampiric shield

 

aoe sicken/frighten

ectopsychicplamic crush

amplified thrust

 

silent scream

go between

mind lance

 

detonate

tactical meld

wild leech

 

amplified wave

antipathic beam

phantom foes

 

time parasite

stasis

recall agony

 

reaver blades

defensive mindweb

soul ignition

Edited July 20, 2017 by MasterCipher

[MaxQuest]

Now, I'm at the point where I need to start making some real commitments to what direction I'm going to take my character in, but I'm split between two:

 

1. Crazy Awesome DPS

2. Crazy Awesome Crowd-control

It depends on what your party lacks more, dps or cc. It also depends if you have a cipher already. Because having a debilitator already in the party makes the life of dps-cipher so much easier.

 

I will copy-paste one of my PMs regarding how a cipher can be played:

1. frontline dps - plate (sanguine), dual-wield sabres (bittercut); pale elf or boreal dwarf; ~ 18/9/15/13/15/8

2. frontline (a bit tankier) dps - plate (sanguine), sabre + shield; pale elf or boreal dwarf; ~ 18/10/14/12/14/10

3. frontline cc - plate (sanguine), estoc (blade of the endless paths); boreal dwarf; ~ 9/9/18/17/17/8

4. ranged cc/dps - robe/hide/padded armor (early game), durganized robe (late game), Borresaine/Sabra Marie Warbow; wood elf; 15/7/18/18/17/3

5. ranged dps (with occasional cc) - robe/padded/hide armor (early game), durganized robe (late game), Persistence bow (early game), Rain of Goddah late game; 18/7/18/17/15/3

6. ranged dps (with occasional cc)- hide armor (early game), durganized robe or hide (late game), quick-switching blunderbusses; 19/7/18/17/14/3

So far I have MCed v4 and a v1 (protected by v4). And my current run is with v5 covered by a v3 hireling.

 

As you can see, either would be crazy awesome. But essentially, my character could go either way and, since I have zero experience with Ciphers, I was just wondering what the masses would suggest. Of the Cipher powers, which ones do you think are more effective, which ones work well with a party set-up (I'm probably going to stick mostly with Eder, Pallegina, Aloth, Durance, and Kana - I'm thinking of carrying this character over to Deadfire), etc.?

Looking at your party composition, it looks like you have no reliable (per-encounter) way to stop enemies that jump on Aloth/Durance. I would probably go for a ranged cc/dps cipher. Additionally such cipher has the synergy with priest, as Painful Interdiction will make landing your cc effects easier; and synergy with Kana/Pallegina because stun and paralyze effects greatly debuff enemy reflex (for Dragon Trashed, White Worms and Sacred Immolation).

 

As for powers, specifically for v4:

- Whispers of Treason (!), Mindwave (!), Tenuous Grasp ® and Eyestrike(~)

- Mental Binding (!), Amplified Thrust ®, Recall Agony ® (vs high HP enemies)

- Ectopsychic Echo ®, Soul Ignition ®, Puppet Master (~)

- Silent Scream(!), Mind Lance ®, Pain Block (~), Going Between (~), Wild Leech (~)

- Borrowed Instinct ®, Tactical Meld ®, Detonate ®

- Amplified Wave (!), Disintegration (!)

- Time Parasite (!), Stasis Shell (~)

- Reaping Knives (~), Defensive Mindweb (~) (Mindweb is quite situational, because it comes with heavy opportunity cost)

Edited July 20, 2017 by MaxQuest

[MasterCipher]

I removed Pain Link from my original reply because it's a real dud.

 

Max, have you tried comparing Soul Ignition and Disintegration on a high MIG + high INT character? Disintegration starts out well, but ends up doing considerably less DPs. Things get even worse for Disintegration if you stack 2 Soul Ignitions for the same focus cost.

 

Random tidbit: Amplified Thrust benefits from Apprentice Sneak Attack (displays in combat log text). Presumably, it also benefits from Soul Whip and Biting Whip, but I haven't been able to confirm. It used to generate focus but this was horribly overpowered and removed in a patch.

 

Accuracy from Borrowed Instinct does not stack with Priest Devotion of Faithful.

 

Antipathic field does damage itself, and buffs base damage of Ectopsychic Echo by 20%.

[bigwillystyle]

I love me some Amplified Thrust + Crit.  Nothing quite like ~80+ points of damage at level 3.

[MaxQuest]

Max, have you tried comparing Soul Ignition and Disintegration on a high MIG + high INT character? Disintegration starts out well, but ends up doing considerably less DPs. Things get even worse for Disintegration if you stack 2 Soul Ignitions for the same focus cost.

I did.

Both Disintegration and Soul Ignition were buffed in 3.00 to accommodate higher focus cost.

 

Base values are: (at 10 MIG, 10 INT, regular hit)

- Disintegration deals: 240 dmg over 15 seconds (6 ticks for 40 raw dmg)

- Soul Ignition deals: ~95 dmg over 10 seconds (4 ticks for 22 burn dmg + 1 tick for 7.33)

 

Btw, what do you mean by stack 2? Afaik Soul Ignition and Disintegration do not stack with themselves. Was that recently changed?

 

 

P.S. Disintegration is in particular great vs high-hp, high-DR targets. I used it vs Alpine Dragon for example.

At 22 MIG, 29 INT, and crit it resulted in: 240 * 1.36 * 1.95 * 1.5 = 954 raw damage over 43.8 seconds. But tsss, that's the beauty of stacking damage coefficients.

P.P.S. And then there is also Recall Agony. Which deals 30% of inflicted damage. And is further increased by Might score...

Edited July 20, 2017 by MaxQuest

[MasterCipher]

Side by side, soul ignition pulls ahead of disintegration in damage per second at 35 Might, because disintegration doesn't appear to benefit from MIG at a certain point.

 

26 MIG 18 INT

                         Damage    Duration(s)     DPS

Soul Ignition         185              14             13.2

Disintegration       320              21             15.2

 

30 MIG 18 INT

                         Damage    Duration(s)     DPS

Soul Ignition         200              14             14.3

Disintegration       320              21             15.2

 

35 MIG 18 INT

                         Damage    Duration(s)     DPS

Soul Ignition         218              14             15.6

Disintegration       320              21             15.2

 

The major assumption above is that enemy DR is 0, so disintegration still holds an edge. However, this is where the stacking gets weird.

 

With 35 MIG, when I cast soul ignition on my party member, a hit displays 218 over 14 seconds as above. When I cast again, there is still a single spell affect icon on my test subject, but mouse over reveals 2 separate damages and durations (nothing suppressed). Furthermore, when the 2nd hit crit, the the first cast upgraded to 436 over 14 seconds and the second cast displays 616 over 21 seconds. Over my test subjects head, 2 numbers appear each tick 36 and 36. 

[v-anus]

Perfect timing, I just wanted to start or resurrect a thread about Ciphers. This answers most questions I had.

One remains though. I have some experience on PotD now (only til 2nd chapter) with Rogue and Monk and I was asking myself how playable a ranged Cipher with pistols would be?
I'm not hardcore minmaxing the stats (no stat below 10) normally, and therefore don't invest in dexterity too much. Would a Cipher build similar to the V4 above be enjoyable with a pistol or am I going to bite the keyboard when trying?

[MaxQuest]

Yay, have tested Soul Ignition and Disintegration right now, and they indeed stack with themselves now.
And I am 99% sure that they didn't in 2.03, when I found out that chanter's DoTs stack while cipher's don't. That makes them even better)
 

Side by side, soul ignition pulls ahead of disintegration in damage per second at 35 Might, because disintegration doesn't appear to benefit from MIG at a certain point.

Tooltips lie. And in case of DoTs combat log can lie too

Disintegration does benefit from Might.
You can check this by looking at the red popup values (as they correspond to real damage values applied by the game). At 35 MIG the tick damage increases from 40 to 70. So:
- @26 MIG & 18 INT: Disintegration deals: 240 * 1.48 * 1.4 = 497 dmg over 21s
- @30 MIG & 18 INT: Disintegration deals: 240 * 1.60 * 1.4 = 537 dmg over 21s
- @35 MIG & 18 INT: Disintegration deals: 240 * 1.75 * 1.4 = 588 dmg over 21s

In any case you can simplify the dps comparation further:
- disintegration dps is: mightCoef * 40 raw damage / 3s
- double soul ignition dps is: 2* mightCoef * 22 burn damage / 3s

Since tick damage goes vs 1/4 of respective DR:
- double Soul Ignition will have slightly higher dps than Disintegration vs targets with lower than 8 burn DR
- double Soul Ignition will have same dps vs targets with 8-10 burn DR, and
- double Soul Ignition will have lower dps vs targets with higher than 10 burn DR

P.S. But because Disintegration lasts for x1.5 longer, it's total damage will always be greater than that of two Soul Ignitions (provided that the target will live up to it's duration).
 

One remains though. I have some experience on PotD now (only til 2nd chapter) with Rogue and Monk and I was asking myself how playable a ranged Cipher with pistols would be?
I'm not hardcore minmaxing the stats (no stat below 10) normally, and therefore don't invest in dexterity too much. Would a Cipher build similar to the V4 above be enjoyable with a pistol or am I going to bite the keyboard when trying?

It will be playable as in viable (even on PotD). And will show decent results on early levels, especially if you will take Kana's arquebus.
But it won't be as optimal as bow route or quick-switching blunderbusses in mid-late game.

Edited July 21, 2017 by MaxQuest

[MasterCipher]

Thanks Max! I learned a lot on this and will be replacing soul ignition with disintegration in my build.

[MaxQuest]

Yeap, Disintegration is awesome)

You only use Soul Ignition before you get access to Dis. Or if the target doesn't have that much endurance. On another hand if the enemy doesn't have much, it either dies to AoE or to hard-cc + auto-attacks / direct damage.

[Byste]

First, an introduction before I unleash questions I've got.

 

Hey, I'm new to the game (Humble Monthly), I got inspired to play cipher. I've been constantly trying to identify how to play cipher optimally and I find myself constantly feeling like I'm doing it wrong.

 

My party is Monk (monksterlasher), Druid (bat****), and Chanter (drake ambassador) in the frontline, with Priest (Godhammer), Wizard (Hurtstacker), and Cipher in the backline. I'm pretty reliant on the AI to micro my party for me because I just don't know how to use everybody very effectively -- especially Druid and Priest. Chanter doesn't have much to do except wait for invocations, Monk is pretty simple to micro (he just needs to be positioned for Torment Reach). Wizard I sometimes try to micro but I only use one Grimoire's worth of spells -- they mostly debuff, autoattack, or get KO'd. The Priest I make him manually heal people as necessary and I have him open fights with Painful Interdiction.

 

Cipher is currently using Leadspitter, he basically dumps damage into a squishy -- then detonates them if they live, else he uses Body Attunement to steal DR from a tanky target. Also uses debuffs or Ecto Echo / AP field if the opportunities present themselves. Mental Binding or Whisper of Treason generally takes care of anybody trying to engage my backline. I generally don't have to worry about my spells being resisted because my party uses so many afflictions that something lands and makes everything else easier to land. I do plan on switching my cipher to war bow soon (I have Borresaine and Cloudpiercer in inventory but waiting on respec).

 

-----------------------

Anyway, I wanted to ask, how should I be respeccing for end game when using a cipher? Currently I'm level 8-9 and haven't done any White March content, but I was looking at Cipher's 8th level powers and I feel like I'm doing everything wrong.

• Defensive Mindweb seems too good not to exploit. Should I be using a Paladin, and switching the cipher to a reach weapon so Mindweb aura can reach frontline + backline? Would that even reach everybody?
• Reaping Knives -- I don't understand how it interacts with builds already using weapons. Would it undermine the monk's lashing build? Do I need to rebuild him around being unarmed?

 

I love me some Amplified Thrust + Crit.  Nothing quite like ~80+ points of damage at level 3.

 

Wait, spells can crit?

 

- Whispers of Treason (!), Mindwave (!), Tenuous Grasp ® and Eyestrike(~)

- Mental Binding (!), Amplified Thrust ®, Recall Agony ® (vs high HP enemies)
- Ectopsychic Echo ®, Soul Ignition ®, Puppet Master (~)
- Silent Scream(!), Mind Lance ®, Pain Block (~), Going Between (~), Wild Leech (~)
- Borrowed Instinct ®, Tactical Meld ®, Detonate ®
- Amplified Wave (!), Disintegration (!)
- Time Parasite (!), Stasis Shell (~)
- Reaping Knives (~), Defensive Mindweb (~) (Mindweb is quite situational, because it comes with heavy opportunity cost)

 

 

I find the spell selections strange and was hoping you could explain. I've looked many other resources that disagree but you seem especially knowledgeable as someone giving advice on cipher for years.

• Why not Body Attunement (lv4)? It's fast cast and it steals DR from the target. Maybe it's more useful to me with a Blunderbuss (many low damage projectiles), but still.
• Why not AP Field (lv1)? It's crazy high damage and I'll still use it at level 9 if the geometry is there.
• Why Tenuous Grasp, Puppet Master, Silent Scream, and Wild Leech?
• Why is Mindweb so situational? Isn't it basically becoming invulnerable? Seems like any fight that's actually difficult, you would want to use it ASAP.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Byste

[bigwillystyle]

Not sure if it was a trick question but yes, spells can graze, hit and crit.  Both for damage and status effects.  Critting on a paralyze is super fun.

 

I don't want to speak for MaxQuest, but my own thoughts on spells:

 

- Body Attunement is a good spell, particularly for a melee cipher, but I would almost always cast Silent Scream first.  In fact that's how most Cipher combats go [pew, pew, SILENT SCREAM, pew, SILENT SCREAM].  I don't use Silent Scream for the stun.  I use it for the raw damage AoE.  High might cipher + Silent Scream is great.

 

- I personally like Antipathetic Field, but it does require some micro & positioning.  I would probably take it over Tenuous Grasp, although the latter DOES have its uses.

 

- Puppet Master has a super fast cast time and lasts for quite a while.  I think most folks prefer Whispers of Treason, but the cast time for Puppet is no joke.  

 

- I love Mindweb.  I think MaxQuest's point was that for 80 focus, I'd probably prefer Time Parasite + something else.  Time Parasite is amazing.  Against a hard bounties, yeah, Mindweb is one of the first spells out.

[Byste]

It was a serious question (re: spell critting). Thanks.

 

I wrote off a lot of spells for not being fast cast. Silent Scream was right up there. Being Raw damage though maybe I wrote this off too quickly, I suppose against tanky targets this is better than Amplified Wave.

 

 

• Defensive Mindweb seems too good not to exploit. Should I be using a Paladin, and switching the cipher to a reach weapon so Mindweb aura can reach frontline + backline? Would that even reach everybody?
• Reaping Knives -- I don't understand how it interacts with builds already using weapons. Would it undermine the monk's lashing build? Do I need to rebuild him around being unarmed?

Still hoping for some insight on this :3

Edited August 3, 2017 by Byste

[bigwillystyle]

I hear you re: writing off spells for not being fast case.  I love Mental Binding and Silent Scream but .... glah they take forever.  

 

Regarding Defensive Mindweb - I don't recall range being much of an issue.  It had a lot of coverage.  The wiki says 5M radius, and while the wiki isn't always accurate, that feels right.

 

Reaping Knives replaces the existing weapon being used by the target.  It does 15-20 raw damage per hit, so ... its generally pretty good.  you could always cast it on your Chanter, if you felt like it would impede the Monk.  Brighter guys than me may need to opine on this one.

[Boeroer]

Best choice for reaping knives is obviously a barbarian. Total focus overflow.

 

Monk is great, too. The knives raw (base) damage, paired with Lightning Strikes and Turning Wheel, generates good focus. And since the cone of Torment's Reach is not influenced by your weapon choice you don't gimp the monks AoE damage at all.

[MaxQuest]

 

- Whispers of Treason (!), Mindwave (!), Tenuous Grasp ® and Eyestrike(~)

- Mental Binding (!), Amplified Thrust ®, Recall Agony ® (vs high HP enemies)

- Ectopsychic Echo ®, Soul Ignition ®, Puppet Master (~)

- Silent Scream(!), Mind Lance ®, Pain Block (~), Going Between (~), Wild Leech (~)

- Borrowed Instinct ®, Tactical Meld ®, Detonate ®

- Amplified Wave (!), Disintegration (!)

- Time Parasite (!), Stasis Shell (~)

- Reaping Knives (~), Defensive Mindweb (~) (Mindweb is quite situational, because it comes with heavy opportunity cost)

 

I find the spell selections strange and was hoping you could explain. I've looked many other resources that disagree but you seem especially knowledgeable as someone giving advice on cipher for years.

• Why not Body Attunement (lv4)? It's fast cast and it steals DR from the target. Maybe it's more useful to me with a Blunderbuss (many low damage projectiles), but still.
• Why not AP Field (lv1)? It's crazy high damage and I'll still use it at level 9 if the geometry is there.
• Why Tenuous Grasp, Puppet Master, Silent Scream, and Wild Leech?
• Why is Mindweb so situational? Isn't it basically becoming invulnerable? Seems like any fight that's actually difficult, you would want to use it ASAP.

There is indeed a reason behind each power selection. And first I would like to note that the quoted selection refers to the ranged cc/dps cipher (v4 as I call him). This cipher uses mostly crowd-control stuff, and starts to use damage powers mostly when everyone is already cc'ed. Reason being: this is my second cipher, taken specifically for this task (hard protect the party). While my main cipher is more dps oriented.

 

Now I'll elaborate regarding the powers you have listed:

1. Body Attunement - is a good power, but it costs 40 focus. The +DR on ranged cipher is usually left unused (as you don't want to get hit at all, and thus already planned how to prevent the enemies from hitting your squishes). So the main point forte of this power is the -DR on an enemy which would increase your party dps against it. But you don't want to place this on a low-endurance target, as it will die fast anyway. You need a sturdy one, with a lot of hp. Now you have two options: 

- kill the target with phys and periodic damage. In this case -DR is great (especially if you use the v6 cipher - quick-switching blunderbusses).

- kill the target with DoTs. And DoTs (in this, and majority of games) are very DPCT (Damage per Cast Time) effective. Shinning Beacon, Cleansing Flame and Disintegration are kinds here. Soul Ignition, Rot Skulls, Dragon Trashed, Insect Swarm and Concelhaut's Corrosive Siphon are decent as well. Plus there is Recall Agony. 

Also there are few more things to take into account:

- you can DoT the target, charm it, and just let it die by itself. 

- cipher does/should not attack high DR targets. He builds focus on enemy squishies / boss minions, and kills stuff with powers.

All-in-all, I'd rather cast a Soul Ignition + WoT, instead of the Attunement - as it will result in more damage dealt, and less damage taken overall, and for the same focus cost. Or perhaps a Silent Scream. 

 

2. Antipathetic Field - this power was of great use during my first playthrough (which I started on hard). On PotD though, I feel that geometry is often not there. In harder fights, with lots of enemies especially teleporting or rushing ones, there is a risk of their redislocation and thus killing own party. In easier fights - stuff dies fast anyway, as my parties are very dps inclined. I take AF on my dps cipher, but once past level 5 I usually use the Ectopsychic Echo over it, even if it costs 30 instead of 10.

 

3. Tenuous Grasp and Puppet Master are the fallback powers for this cc-cipher in case there is a target immune to charm. Also, while it's great that WoT reduces enemy defenses, in rare situations you don't want it too. For example there is sturdy enemy going to pass through a doorway. Dominate him and let him body block. Not to mention that Puppet Master has longer than WoT duration.

 

4. Silent Scream - is a great AoE damage + target stun combined. With level 7-8 party I usually open up with 2 WoT followed by 2 Mental Bindings. This adds 2 bodies to my party; makes two more enemies paralized, and makes it hard for the rest to rush through my frontline due to stuck. And Silent Scream is a great followup. With 2 ciphers it is stopping two threats from dealing damage to the party, while annihilating the trash. (and if not, I have barbarian + blasting wizard)

 

5. Wild Leech - Lowering boss stats is a great thing. Even grazes done by dragons can deal solid damage, because they have high MIG which partially compensates for the -0.5 loss on the damage coefficient. Stealing 10 MIG on such an enemy would significantly lower their graze damage and help your tanks survivability (if you use this tactic). Not to mention that extra 10 MIG would result in big increase in Soul Ignition and Desintegrate damage.

Somewhat similar thing with INT (breath radius, debuffs duration), DEX and to some extent PER.

Stealing 10 RES is also hefty, as the dragon gets -20 to Will.

Not to meantion reducing dragon's CON.

Still though, I must confess that I rarely used this power. Simply because I already had over-abundance of means to kill the existing bosses. But if dragons would get buffed, plus would get immunities to all hard-cc effects, I would use this way more.

That's why I marked it with (~). I.e. a situational, just-in-case power.

 

6. Mindweb - I liked this power the first few times I used it. But later I've found it a bit redundant / not suiting my style. I can either spend 80 focus on this. Or hard-cc the enemies (and thus avoid the damage altogether) and follow-up with damage-dealing powers. Usually the second approach was resulting in a faster combat. And that's why it is situational. If you have enough cc and high dps, you better use those. If you don't (or enemies are cc-immune or have high defences coupled with minus accuracy effects you can't get rid of) you can play the long game and tank/mindweb them.

 

 

TL.DR. A lot depends on your personal playstyle, and the niche your cipher occupies in your party.

Edited August 4, 2017 by MaxQuest

[MasterCipher]

I want to like Puppet Master over Whisper of Treason, but WOT has a longer range (at 5m someone usually eats an attack before dominate lands), costs 1/3 less focus, you can cast on more than 1 target, and charm affliction debuffs all defenses by 25, which is nice after they've served their purpose and even when they are fighting they are disposable and I want the hostile NPCs to remove them before charm wears off.

 

Body attunement is only single target, has a high focus cost for what it gives (I'd rather cast silent scream which bypasses DR), targets the highest defense, and the +DR doesn't stack with priest armor spell, pally aura, or druid form of delegman. I'd rather carry a wizard or chanter with AoE -5 DR. Damage/focus wise for single target, recall agony is better on hard targets, especially since it returns 30% damage final original damage (works with raw damage like Silent Scream)  - it's not merely boosting the base damage.

 

Wild leech is rarely used, but when it is, it can be an absolute monster - ie open on a dragon and lower it's Health by 50%, +50% to your AoE and durations, +30% ability speed, -30% damage from enemy, etc. Been awhile, but I *think* you can also go cipher avatar mode with it if you have reaver blades focus overflow and cast multiple time on party members/pets/summons/maybe stack on same NPC.

 

AP is great both for it's own damage and +20% damage buff you can use to boost ectopsychoplasmic crush, but requires micro or you wreck your own party.

 

Abilties I use in 6 person group for melee cipher:

 

tenuous grasp

eyestrike (replaceable if using druid and/or wizard with blind spell mastery, possibly with soul shock for low levels or low focus)

mindwave

 

mental binding

whispers of treason

psychovampiric shield (for melee cipher, cast on another party member before combat)

 

aoe sicken/frighten (replaceable if using barbarian with sicken aura, possibly with mind blades or the 5 jump confusion)

ectopsychicplasmic crush

amplified thrust

 

silent scream

go between

mind lance

 

detonate

tactical meld

wild leech

 

amplified wave

antipathic beam

phantom foes

 

time parasite

stasis

recall agony

 

reaver blades

defensive mindweb

disintegrate

[Boeroer]

Nobody favours Tenous Grasp? It's the only mind control spell that the cipher can use outside of combat at early levels and is has a long range (10m). If you use it from stealth usually all enemies will attack the confused one and you are totally save. Best thing is that you get your focus back at once because encounter starts after you cast it. It's a free confuse basically. I like it a lot. I think most people totally underestimate it.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Boeroer

[MasterCipher]

That list is the order I take abilities I probably cast it just as much as Silent Scream. In addition to what Boeroer says, the other perk of Tenuous is that mobs can behave like they are charmed and other enemies will attack them as if they are alliance flipped, BUT they aren't green circled so you can still blast them with your foe only AoEs.

[dgray62]

I notice that MasterCipher recommends taking Psychovampiric Shield at level 4, while MaxQuest doesn't recommend taking it all. Is there any reason not to take it if you are playing a melee cipher? It seems like draining 10 res and gaining 25 deflection is a no brainer. However, I notice that the casting time is "average," which means you might take a hit or two while trying to cast it at close range. Just curious about whether those who have tried it find it worthwhile or not.

[bigwillystyle]

Psychovampiric Shield is just lovely.  I take it on ranged ciphers as well.  It's great if only for the will defense debuff from -10 res.

[dgray62]

That's what I thought too, but I've never played a melee cipher before, just a ranger cipher specializing in CC, so I wondered if there was some good but non-obvious reason not to take it.

[Boeroer]

The reason why MaxQuest doesn't recommend Psychovampiric Shield might be that its deflection bonus doesn't stack with Borrowed Instincts'.