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Hi all,

 

Just thinking about what PC I'm going to play next and doing a Paladin crossed my mind.

 

What's your favourite Paladin Order and why?

 

Benefits of the various orders are as follows:

 

-----------------------

Bleak Walkers

 
The Black Path - When the paladin defeats an opponent, nearby enemies are Frightened
Remember Rakhan Field - +25% Corrode Lash on Flames of Devotion
 
Darcozzi Paladini
 
Inspiring Liberation - +10 Accuracy Bonus with Liberating Exhortation, stacks with everything
Fires of Darcozzi Palace - Flame shield when using 
 
Goldpact Knights
 
Enduring Flames - Burn DoT with flames of Devotion
Bond of Duty - Liberating Exhortation grants a defensive bonus against Charmed, Confused, and Dominated.
 
Kind Wayfarers
 
Strange Mercy - Downing an opponent = 38 to 83 base endurance AoE heal based on level
The Sword and the Shepherd - Flames of Devotion = AoE Heal for 21 to 48 based endurance based on level
 
Shieldbearers of St. Elcga
 
Shielding Flames - Flames of Devotion = +10 Deflection AoE for 10 secs, stackable with everything
Shielding Touch - Lay on Hands gives +8 deflection for 10 secs, not stackable with everything
------------------
 
To me it seems like the real standout abilities are Inspiring Liberation (Darcozzi), Strange Mercy (Kind Wayfarer) and Shielding Flames (Shieldbearer).
 
Bleakwalkers and Goldpact Knights don't seem great by comparison. It was kind of cool when Bleak Walkers could proc stuff like envenomed strike through "the Black Path" but that has since been fixed.
 
 
Being able to grant a nearby ally with +40 accuracy that's completely stackable with everything else in the game by dual wielding marking weapons (+20), using coordinated attacks (+10) and inspiring liberation (+10) seems like it would be an absolute game changer. Guess you've got +6 from Zealous focus too. You'd be able to land any CC you want against anything, or ensure 100% crits with any one character. Anyone got any experience with this?
Edited by Livegood118

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My favorite are Darcozzi and Kind Wayfarer.

 

Darcozzi because:

- you get extra acc stackable with everything, which maybe quite important when in need to land a cc on a boss, or crit with a DoT.

- if you go for a Darcozzi tank, you can ignore FoD completely, and basically save two talents immediately (FoD and it's upgrade).

 

Kind Wayfarer because:

- of extra healing duh.

 

 

I'd also like to mention the talents that I find underwhelming:

- The Black Path: quite many enemies are immune to frightened. Also it requires the paladin to take the kill, and if you have many specialized dps'ers in party the chance for it lowers. If he misses the opportunity to kill his first engager, the moment when party can benefit from enemies getting lower acc, is quite delayed.

- Fires of Darcozzi Palace - the damage is too low.

- Enduring Flames - afaik that is a fixed DoT and intellect reduces it's dps. Moreover because it is a non-raw DoT, Int reduces even total damage as the number of ticks increases, and more of it is eaten by DR.

- Shielding Touch - oh common.

Edited by MaxQuest
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I habe experience with marking + Zealous Focus + Coordinated Attacks + Devotions + Inspiring Radiance. Dragons are easy with this if you have one dedicated single target CC guy like a fighter or a monk or whatever. No dragon is immune to prone if I remember correctly (only resistant, meaning +10 defense - maybe the flying one is immune to ground attacks like Slicken).

 

And only one dragon is immune to charm - so a cipher or anybody with Munacra Arrest/Spirit Spiral is also a nice option.

Edited by Boeroer

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You should add a poll.

 

I guess you mean mechanically, but I'm gonna answer in terms of lore.

Lore-wise, I like them in this order:

 

1. Bleak Walkers

2. Goldpact Knights 

3. Darcozzi Paladini

4. Kind Wayfarers / Shieldbearers of St. Elcga

 

Both the Bleak Walkers and Goldpact Knights are really solid in terms of philosophy. It's clear how they operate and what their goals are. The BW seem really evil, but in the best case scenario, the enemy actually surrenders without a battle, avoiding pointless bloodshed. And I enjoy the moral dilemma of a GPK who might be ordered to do something he considers ethically reprehensible but is forced to obey due to his loyalty to the contract.

 

The Darcozzi Paladini seem like an interesting concept. I mean, witty paladins who take some pleasure in life sounds cool, right? (I wouldn't mind a DP companion actually). But I find their philosophy a little vague to roleplay. It says that they're "ambassadors of the Darcozzi family and Old Valian culture". How can you roleplay a cultural ambassador in a game where Old Valia isn't even mentioned much? (Is the Darcozzi family ever mentioned?) How does doing random quests in the Dyrwood advance the interests of Old Valian culture?

 

Kind Wayfarers and Shieldbearers of St. Elcga just seem like kind of vanilla goody-two-shoes paladins.

Edited by Heijoushin

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To me it would have to be the Darcozzi Paladini, just because a snarky but passionate knight is something new. Lore wise, I think it's really cool that the Darcozzi Paladinis can be pitted against each other depending on who they serve.

 

Also shout out to Boeroer for creating the Counselor Ploi build, which is compatible with all orders (question though: if I'm planning on going Darcozzi, is it worth it to be an island Aumaua for the extra gun, without runner's wounding shot since it doesn't play well with high int?)

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Bleak Walkers. One of my favourite things to do with a Pally is to set up Flame of Devotions on a ranged attack (Usually an Arquebus) and burst down a squishy enemy caster with it. Remember Rakhan Field fits this role perfectly and seeing my Pally one-shot enemy casters with this is both common and extremely satisfying. It can also sets up that frightened effect, but generally I skip that talent since that's usually the only time in a fight where the Paladin gets a kill.

 

Kind Wayfarer is my other favourite because, extra healing is always welcomed of course.

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Does anyone here rate fires of Darcozzi Palace? Any way you look at it a Paladin isn't really going to be doing much damage until they get sacred immolation so I figured it might be an ok-ish boost. It's 6-8 damage per proc right? Does it scale at all?

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To me it would have to be the Darcozzi Paladini, just because a snarky but passionate knight is something new. Lore wise, I think it's really cool that the Darcozzi Paladinis can be pitted against each other depending on who they serve.

 

Also shout out to Boeroer for creating the Counselor Ploi build, which is compatible with all orders (question though: if I'm planning on going Darcozzi, is it worth it to be an island Aumaua for the extra gun, without runner's wounding shot since it doesn't play well with high int?)

 

I love the idea of Dracozzi Paladini, but the actual dialog options labelled [PASSIONATE] seem pretty awful so far.

 

[CLEVER] options are usually okay.

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To me it would have to be the Darcozzi Paladini, just because a snarky but passionate knight is something new. Lore wise, I think it's really cool that the Darcozzi Paladinis can be pitted against each other depending on who they serve.

 

Also shout out to Boeroer for creating the Counselor Ploi build, which is compatible with all orders (question though: if I'm planning on going Darcozzi, is it worth it to be an island Aumaua for the extra gun, without runner's wounding shot since it doesn't play well with high int?)

An additional slot for another arquebus or Runner's Wounding Shot mean nearly the same damage - so you can totally do that. :)


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Does anyone here rate fires of Darcozzi Palace? Any way you look at it a Paladin isn't really going to be doing much damage until they get sacred immolation so I figured it might be an ok-ish boost. It's 6-8 damage per proc right? Does it scale at all?

I don't think it scales.

What you could do is to combine it with a multi-retaliation setup (item + shield) and Scion of Flame, adding Fire Godlike, too and combine it with a Ring of Searing Flames. All retaliations (item, Supper Plate, Battle Forged, Fires of DP - maybe even potion of Flame Shield) then would stack and cause up to 4 or 5 retaliations with every hit you take. A chanter with Myth Fyr is very nice here, too.

If you cast Combusting Wounds around you and get hit by mobs this will melt them quickly - especially later on when combined with Sacred Immolation.


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I wonder what you guys think of as the attribute spread of the standard footman of an Order. Like, say, a Shieldbearer having high RES or a Bleak Walker having high MIG

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I wonder what you guys think of as the attribute spread of the standard footman of an Order. Like, say, a Shieldbearer having high RES or a Bleak Walker having high MIG

 

 

If we're talking about RP I would say that all members of all Paladin orders would have a healthy amount of resolve, given that their abilities stem from an unshaking belief in the virtues of their order.

 

After that it's probably up to you. Darcozzi are passionate smart-asses so they would have high intellect and perception. Orders that value cruelty or kindness would probably favour might for its ability to damage and heal respectively. 

 

In practical terms, all Paladin builds like high might and high intellect for Sacred Immolation, big aura range, long exhortation, big FoD hits. Dex is not really greatly valued because not much of the Paladin's overall output, both in terms of support and damage, comes from autoattacks. Con is usually middling though can be nice for even more Fort saves then Perception is whatever you can squeeze in after everything else.

Edited by Livegood118

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I realize that this is a thread necro, and I'm definitely late to the party.  But this is an interesting topic, and it seems better to just thread necro than create a new thread on the same topic.

 

 

I think that there are two very different ways to look at the question of favorite paladin order.  There's the which order's abilities/talents do you like best.  And then there's the which order's background do you like best.  Being more of a role player, I prefer the second question.

 

I'm rather old school when it comes to paladins. I personally don't like this semi-supporting leadership style of paladin.  I prefer the old school "holy warrior" style of paladin.  It seems a lot more fun to me.  But sadly, that's not what's in PoE.

 

Furthermore, I don't particularly like the Darcozzi or Gold Pact Knight orders, because I don't see any central concept or ideology that defines them.  The Gold Pact Knights seem more like a mercenary group than an order of paladins.  And fighting for whomever pays you the most hardly seems like an ideology that should define a group of paladins.  As for the Darcozzi, I can't even go that far.  I have no idea at all what binds them together, other than being guardians and ambassadors of the Darcozzi family, which again hardly seems like something that should define a group of paladins.  In both of these cases, they seem like groups of warriors, with the GPK's being more mercs while the Darcozzi being more guardsmen.  But either way, not paladins, at least as I would see "paladins".

 

As for the Bleak Walkers, I can see them as paladins, almost certainly evil, though it's hard to see a binding ideology.  Their description seems to describe more of means to their ideology than an ideology itself.  But I have no idea what the ideology their brutal and merciless nature exists to support.

 

This leaves the Kind Wayfarers and the Shieldbearers.  I can see these two as old school paladins of roughly similar flavor.  Protectors of the innocent, etc., etc., etc.

 

Maybe what's really missing, at least for me, are ties to Eora's deities, since tying an order to a specific deity would pretty much define an order's philosophy.  If an order was linked to Magran, a paladin would be a champion of the goddess of war and fire, and so forth, for example.

 

 

Anyways, looking at the paladin orders from an talent perspective, it seems to me that they're all relative weak and unappealing.  The only talent that seems at all potent is Pallegina's Wrath of the Five Suns talent.  It seems to me that other than the Faith and Conviction dispositions, the 5 playable orders are all rather generic in their abilities because their talents are so lame.  Oh, sure, you've got to work your dispositions during your game play, and that's a good thing.  But in terms of abilities, all paladins seem like they're pretty much the same in combat. 

 

It would be nice if there was more differentiation between the orders in terms of what they bring to combat.  It might also be nice if each order had specific requirements or strongly favored attributes that related to that order's special skills, talents, and/or abilities, so that paladins of different orders didn't have so much of a sameness about them. 

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I don't think the Goldpact Knights fight for whoever pays them the most. Their ideology is that a contract, once signed, is sacred and must be executed no matter what. In particular they won't betray an employer if someone else offers them more gold.

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I don't think the Goldpact Knights fight for whoever pays them the most. Their ideology is that a contract, once signed, is sacred and must be executed no matter what. In particular they won't betray an employer if someone else offers them more gold.

 

I didn't really mean to imply that they'd bail on a contract.  I meant it more in the sense that before a contract was signed, one assumes that they'll fight for whomever pays them the most.  But yes, once a deal's signed, a deal's a deal.

 

Still, that hardly seems like a proper ideology for an order of paladins.  It sounds more like a good policy for a reliable mercenary group.

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One of the best things PoE did was decoupling paladins from deities.

 

The original meaning of the word paladin is "person who's close to the emperor" - which totally fits the Darcozzi Paladin.

 

Most other (current) connotations of the word paladin (holy warrior and whatnot) came later with D&D.

 

I'm glad that PoE didn't follow that one-dimensional and somewhat boring approach but depicted paladins as orders of warriors that are zealous and dedicated to a common goal/philosophy/whatever, but are not necessarily bound to a god. Still there are some orders who are (Fellows of St. Waidwen Martyr for example).

 

Same with monks: not tied to certain gods at all but rather to a special philosophy. That's a good thing.

 

Gods have their priests and that's enough in my opinion.

 

My favorite orders are Darcozzi and Bleak Walkers by the way - mainly because of their special talents. Darcozzis are great ACC supporters and Bleak Walkers are among the best alpha strikers.

Edited by Boeroer
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One of the best things PoE did was decoupling paladins from deities.

 

The original meaning of the word paladin is "person who's close to the emperor" - which totally fits the Darcozzi Paladin.

 

Most other (current) connotations of the word paladin (holy warrior and whatnot) came later with D&D.

 

I'm glad that PoE didn't follow that one-dimensional and somewhat boring approach but depicted paladins as orders of warriors that are zealous and dedicated to a common goal/philosophy/whatever, but are not necessarily bound to a god. Still there are some orders who are (Fellows of St. Waidwen Martyr for example).

 

Same with monks: not tied to certain gods at all but rather to a special philosophy. That's a good thing.

 

Gods have their priests and that's enough in my opinion.

 

My favorite orders are Darcozzi and Bleak Walkers by the way - mainly because of their special talents. Darcozzis are great ACC supporters and Bleak Walkers are among the best alpha strikers.

 

Well, I have to disagree.  I think that it's a bad thing to not have paladins tied to deities.  You see it as one dimensional.  I don't.  To me, it's nearly sacrilegious for them to not be linked to a deity. To me, the PoE form of paladin is what's boring.  Give me my Holy Warriors who are looking to slay dragons and so forth!!!  :dragon:   :biggrin: 

 

As for monks, I never saw them as a group that'd be tied to deities, though I suppose it might depend on what one thinks of when they think of "monks".  If one is thinking of them as martial artists, yeah, I don't see that as being tied to deities.  OTOH, if one seems monks in a more religious sense, like real world monks who are just religious people who aren't really priests as such and who live in monasteries, then I suppose that they should be tied to deities.  That said, who's really going to want to play that sort of monk?  Doesn't even seem like a playable class.  But the more martial artsey monks seem like they'd be off contemplating all sorts of things, as well as learning their fighting style(s), and so forth.  But they seem more ... secularly philosophical rather than religious to me.

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That's because the first time you came in contact with a paladin was with D&D and that ruined the whole paladin theme for you. ;)

 

I think it's better to have a more "open" approach to paladins. They can form an order of zealous god-followers, but they can also form an order of zealous contract-followers.

 

By the way the Goldpact Knights also kind of follow the teachings of a god: Woedica is called Oathbinder and punishes people for breaking oaths. Goldpact Knights always keep their oath once the oath/contract is signed. Maybe a lot of them follow her teachings.

 

So it also depends which gods there are. Imagine a paladin of Skaen: not very paladin-like in terms of D&D and friends.

 

In PoE, what all paladins have in common is zeal. The reason behind their zeal can be multiple things and I think that makes paladins in general less one-dimensional than the usual holy warrior theme which is boring for me. I mean they can be and thus the common D&D-Paladin fan can build such a holy warrior, but they don't have to be, which opens more choice for players with a more differentiated taste when it comes to zealous characters.

Edited by Boeroer
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I realize that this is a thread necro, and I'm definitely late to the party. But this is an interesting topic, and it seems better to just thread necro than create a new thread on the same topic.

 

 

I think that there are two very different ways to look at the question of favorite paladin order. There's the which order's abilities/talents do you like best. And then there's the which order's background do you like best. Being more of a role player, I prefer the second question.

 

I'm rather old school when it comes to paladins. I personally don't like this semi-supporting leadership style of paladin. I prefer the old school "holy warrior" style of paladin. It seems a lot more fun to me. But sadly, that's not what's in PoE.

 

Furthermore, I don't particularly like the Darcozzi or Gold Pact Knight orders, because I don't see any central concept or ideology that defines them. The Gold Pact Knights seem more like a mercenary group than an order of paladins. And fighting for whomever pays you the most hardly seems like an ideology that should define a group of paladins. As for the Darcozzi, I can't even go that far. I have no idea at all what binds them together, other than being guardians and ambassadors of the Darcozzi family, which again hardly seems like something that should define a group of paladins. In both of these cases, they seem like groups of warriors, with the GPK's being more mercs while the Darcozzi being more guardsmen. But either way, not paladins, at least as I would see "paladins".

 

As for the Bleak Walkers, I can see them as paladins, almost certainly evil, though it's hard to see a binding ideology. Their description seems to describe more of means to their ideology than an ideology itself. But I have no idea what the ideology their brutal and merciless nature exists to support.

 

This leaves the Kind Wayfarers and the Shieldbearers. I can see these two as old school paladins of roughly similar flavor. Protectors of the innocent, etc., etc., etc.

 

Maybe what's really missing, at least for me, are ties to Eora's deities, since tying an order to a specific deity would pretty much define an order's philosophy. If an order was linked to Magran, a paladin would be a champion of the goddess of war and fire, and so forth, for example.

 

 

Anyways, looking at the paladin orders from an talent perspective, it seems to me that they're all relative weak and unappealing. The only talent that seems at all potent is Pallegina's Wrath of the Five Suns talent. It seems to me that other than the Faith and Conviction dispositions, the 5 playable orders are all rather generic in their abilities because their talents are so lame. Oh, sure, you've got to work your dispositions during your game play, and that's a good thing. But in terms of abilities, all paladins seem like they're pretty much the same in combat.

 

It would be nice if there was more differentiation between the orders in terms of what they bring to combat. It might also be nice if each order had specific requirements or strongly favored attributes that related to that order's special skills, talents, and/or abilities, so that paladins of different orders didn't have so much of a sameness about them.

On PoTD Inspiring Liberation is GREAT. + 10 Accuracy thay stacks with everything that last at a base line of 20 seconds with 10 INT is awesome in dragon fights. Helping CC land reliably. But you don’t like Darcozzi :p

 

Darcozzi are a Kingsguard like in Game of Thrones. I like it.

 

I used to be old school like you about Paladins but I like the take on them in this game. You don’t have to follow a god to be zealous about something. And I like the leader concept better than the D and D version But to each his own of course. I bet you were jealous of those Berathian Paladins in Raedrics Keep!

Edited by Torm51

Have gun will travel.

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I realize that this is a thread necro, and I'm definitely late to the party. But this is an interesting topic, and it seems better to just thread necro than create a new thread on the same topic.

 

 

I think that there are two very different ways to look at the question of favorite paladin order. There's the which order's abilities/talents do you like best. And then there's the which order's background do you like best. Being more of a role player, I prefer the second question.

 

I'm rather old school when it comes to paladins. I personally don't like this semi-supporting leadership style of paladin. I prefer the old school "holy warrior" style of paladin. It seems a lot more fun to me. But sadly, that's not what's in PoE.

 

Furthermore, I don't particularly like the Darcozzi or Gold Pact Knight orders, because I don't see any central concept or ideology that defines them. The Gold Pact Knights seem more like a mercenary group than an order of paladins. And fighting for whomever pays you the most hardly seems like an ideology that should define a group of paladins. As for the Darcozzi, I can't even go that far. I have no idea at all what binds them together, other than being guardians and ambassadors of the Darcozzi family, which again hardly seems like something that should define a group of paladins. In both of these cases, they seem like groups of warriors, with the GPK's being more mercs while the Darcozzi being more guardsmen. But either way, not paladins, at least as I would see "paladins".

 

As for the Bleak Walkers, I can see them as paladins, almost certainly evil, though it's hard to see a binding ideology. Their description seems to describe more of means to their ideology than an ideology itself. But I have no idea what the ideology their brutal and merciless nature exists to support.

 

This leaves the Kind Wayfarers and the Shieldbearers. I can see these two as old school paladins of roughly similar flavor. Protectors of the innocent, etc., etc., etc.

 

Maybe what's really missing, at least for me, are ties to Eora's deities, since tying an order to a specific deity would pretty much define an order's philosophy. If an order was linked to Magran, a paladin would be a champion of the goddess of war and fire, and so forth, for example.

 

 

Anyways, looking at the paladin orders from an talent perspective, it seems to me that they're all relative weak and unappealing. The only talent that seems at all potent is Pallegina's Wrath of the Five Suns talent. It seems to me that other than the Faith and Conviction dispositions, the 5 playable orders are all rather generic in their abilities because their talents are so lame. Oh, sure, you've got to work your dispositions during your game play, and that's a good thing. But in terms of abilities, all paladins seem like they're pretty much the same in combat.

 

It would be nice if there was more differentiation between the orders in terms of what they bring to combat. It might also be nice if each order had specific requirements or strongly favored attributes that related to that order's special skills, talents, and/or abilities, so that paladins of different orders didn't have so much of a sameness about them.

On PoTD Inspiring Liberation is GREAT. + 10 Accuracy thay stacks with everything that last at a base line of 20 seconds with 10 INT is awesome in dragon fights. Helping CC land reliably. But you don’t like Darcozzi :p

 

Darcozzi are a Kingsguard like in Game of Thrones. I like it.

 

I used to be old school like you about Paladins but I like the take on them in this game. You don’t have to follow a god to be zealous about something. And I like the leader concept better than the D and D version But to each his own of course. I bet you were jealous of those Berathian Paladins in Raedrics Keep!

 

 

A.  I don't do POTD. 

 

B.  Never watched Game of Thrones.  Heck, I don't think that I've even had cable in more than 10 years.  Just wasn't worth the ridiculously high price IMO.  And on principle, I hate channel bundling, which is another reason I refuse to get cable.

 

C. I don't see zealotry as a legitimate source of power for a paladin's abilities.  To me, a guardsman is nothing more than a fighter.  I see paladins as requiring a tie to a deity because it's only through that deity that they get their power, their divine abilities.

 

D. I don't like the leader concept because if you have a group of paladins, like those Berathian Paladins, they can't ALL be leaders.  Too many chiefs, not enough indians.  But when you're talking about holy warriors, well, you avoid that problem.  or if the term "holy warrior" doesn't work for you, think instead of them as "champions" (of their deity).  A champion is still a holy warrior of sorts, though not necessarily a zealot in the colloquial sense.  They may be leaders, but not necessarily so.  They'd be warriors chosen and blessed by their deity to be one of that deity's chosen champions in this world (Eora, in this case). 

 

(FYI, I'm thinking of David Weber's War God series, where the primary character, Bahzell Bahnakson, is a Champion of the god of war and justice, Tomanak.  He's no zealot by any stretch of the imagination.  Arguably, he's not even all that "holy" a warrior.  He's certainly not religious.  He doesn't really see Tomanak as a god to be worshiped.  He tends to see Tomanak as being more like his really, REALLY super powerful boss, in whose name Bahzell fights.  And that's OK with Tomanak because he wants Bahzell to be exactly who he is, not some boot-licking toady.)

 

 

Frankly, I think that all of the abilities we see in the game could be easily enough explained without needing this leader foolishness.  In a very real sense, the abilities we see paladins get in PoE aren't all that different from those Paladins got in D&D, at least in the IE D&D games.  They're just not bundled up as "spells".  But they still do similar kinds of things.  Help companions.  Hurt enemies.  That sort of thing.

 

 

 

Anyways...

 

I wish that the devs had done more to create a lot more differentiation between the paladin orders, because right now, there seems be very little differentiation, except for how you have to role play a pally PC relative to your order's F+C dispositions.

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