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Just to clarify

 

"I think that the stat system detracts from the game" <- Important part

 

"I think that a political agenda may have influenced the stat system" <- Not important ^^

Just to clarify

 

You can argue point 1, though most of us will not concur. 

 

As for point 2, have you considered seeing a psychologist about your inability to separate gender politics from anything in life?  Apparently up to including stat mechanics in video games.  I promise politics had nothing to do with anything relating to the gameplay, mechanics, or character building aspects of Eternity.

 

 

Your inability to see the connecting pattern is hardly my failing; it is there. I understand that you don't like the thoughts I have introduced in this thread, but I would still advice you to not show such blatant disrespect towards a fellow man. You're not doing your own views any favors by acting like that.

 

It doesn't matter if there's some tangenital connection between the creation of Pillars and the politics of the creators. This isn't the forum for discussing the politics of the creators.

 

This isn't the forum for discussing politics. Period. This isn't the place, this isn't the context, this isn't the appropriate time. Everything you are doing is wrong.

 

This is a VIDEO GAME FORUM. This is where you talk about VIDEO GAMES. Not the *politics of the people who made the video games*. You get me? This is where you talk about Pillars 2, not about who the guy that coded Pillars 2 voted for. See the difference?

 

Nobody here wants to hear you talk about how women are breeding mares whose only purpose is to produce young men to lead society. We want to talk about Pillars 2. If you want to talk about your ****ed-up misogynistic bull****, go where that's appropiate. This is not it. This is a video game forum. We come here to talk about Obsidian-produced video games. Not your politics.

 

****ing christ.

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The above

Come now, you could make your point somewhat more dispassionately :).

Can I give it a shot? I come here to talk about the game, not to read strangers' opinions about what career, relationship, and childbearing choices make people of my general group happy. Posts about gender and stats are at least somewhat relevant to the game. Several long digressions have not been, seem terribly out of place, and probably shut some people out of the conversation rather than advancing it.

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The above

Come now, you could make your point somewhat more dispassionately :).

Can I give it a shot? I come here to talk about the game, not to read strangers' opinions about what career, relationship, and childbearing choices make people of my general group happy. Posts about gender and stats are at least somewhat relevant to the game. Several long digressions have not been, seem terribly out of place, and probably shut some people out of the conversation rather than advancing it.

 

Agreed, these long harangues about women in a number of posts now, and over a few days, are simply regurgitation, a bizarre ceterum censeo, which has no place here whatsoever. Not even the off-topic section would stomach such discussions for very long. Please stay on topic and the theme of the thread.

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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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I encourage everone to make use of the handy Ignore feature, which will remove offending opinions from your view. :yes: Otherwise, please stay on topic.

I actually did earlier--NinjaMisogynist is the very first person on the Obsidian boards I've ever ignored, so congrats on the accomplishment--but my point still stands. He can't hold a coversation without going off about SJW's and how gender equality is evil. He's going to start spewing about how women are breed mares whose only purpose is to spew out children again, and more explicitly. It will *only* get more explicitly misogynistic and less-and-less related to video games the more we let it happen.

 

We don't need this ****. This board had a *great* culture and a *great* atmosphere and environment. This place is awesome. One thing we absolutely do not need or want is his ilk regurgitating this venom all over the boards. This needs to be cut off at the root *now*. If NinjaWomanHater want's to talk about video games, that's all fine and dandy. But you should slap his ass with a warning every time he starts to spew his bile.

Edited by Katarack21
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I encourage everone to make use of the handy Ignore feature, which will remove offending opinions from your view. :yes: Otherwise, please stay on topic.

I actually did earlier--NinjaMisogynist is the very first person on the Obsidian boards I've ever ignored, so congrats on the accomplishment--but my point still stands. He can't hold a coversation without going off about SJW's and how gender equality is evil. He's going to start spewing about how women are breed mares whose only purpose is to spew out children again, and more explicitly. It will *only* get more explicitly misogynistic and less-and-less related to video games the more we let it happen.

 

We don't need this ****. This board had a *great* culture and a *great* atmosphere and environment. This place is awesome. One thing we absolutely do not need or want is his ilk regurgitating this venom all over the boards. This needs to be cut off at the root *now*. If NinjaWomanHater want's to talk about video games, that's all fine and dandy. But you should slap his ass with a warning every time he starts to spew his bile.

 

This isn't Neogaf.  Stop being a **** by ignoring the mods and being hostile.  It's this kind of crap that's going to close the thread.  Hopefully Gifted1 does a thread cleanup instead of closing an interesting thread.

Edited by bonarbill
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I encourage everone to make use of the handy Ignore feature, which will remove offending opinions from your view. :yes: Otherwise, please stay on topic.

I actually did earlier--NinjaMisogynist is the very first person on the Obsidian boards I've ever ignored, so congrats on the accomplishment--but my point still stands. He can't hold a coversation without going off about SJW's and how gender equality is evil. He's going to start spewing about how women are breed mares whose only purpose is to spew out children again, and more explicitly. It will *only* get more explicitly misogynistic and less-and-less related to video games the more we let it happen.

 

We don't need this ****. This board had a *great* culture and a *great* atmosphere and environment. This place is awesome. One thing we absolutely do not need or want is his ilk regurgitating this venom all over the boards. This needs to be cut off at the root *now*. If NinjaWomanHater want's to talk about video games, that's all fine and dandy. But you should slap his ass with a warning every time he starts to spew his bile.

 

Stop being a **** by ignoring the mods.  It's this kind of crap that's going to close the thread.  Hopefully Gifted1 does a thread cleanup instead of closing an interesting thread.

 

I'm talking *DIRECTLY* to the mod and telling him *PERSONALLY* that I used the ignore function that he recommended, so it's *LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO BE IGNORING THE MOD*.

 

What I'm doing is noting that his statement "Just ignore them" isn't appropriate. This isn't the only thread this bull**** has happened in, and I'm not the first person to point out that his political statements are inappropriate in this forum. I'm not even the only person to comment about it here, in this thread, after the mod made his statement.

 

Literally all I'm doing is asking a mod to enforce the forum topic after multiple, repeated breakings of it over several days that have been protested by several posters.

Edited by Katarack21
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I encourage everone to make use of the handy Ignore feature, which will remove offending opinions from your view. :yes: Otherwise, please stay on topic.

I actually did earlier--NinjaMisogynist is the very first person on the Obsidian boards I've ever ignored, so congrats on the accomplishment--but my point still stands. He can't hold a coversation without going off about SJW's and how gender equality is evil. He's going to start spewing about how women are breed mares whose only purpose is to spew out children again, and more explicitly. It will *only* get more explicitly misogynistic and less-and-less related to video games the more we let it happen.

 

We don't need this ****. This board had a *great* culture and a *great* atmosphere and environment. This place is awesome. One thing we absolutely do not need or want is his ilk regurgitating this venom all over the boards. This needs to be cut off at the root *now*. If NinjaWomanHater want's to talk about video games, that's all fine and dandy. But you should slap his ass with a warning every time he starts to spew his bile.

 

 

I'm getting a bit sick of being insulted by you at every turn. I've been nothing but courteous with you, but you keep calling me a jackass, accusing me of being a misogynist and overall being an incredibly vile person towards me. I have had enough of this, *you* do *not* have the authority to determine which topics are appropriate here and I am *not* going to avoid subjects just to placate you. Hate me all you want but keep it to yourself, as that hate of yours, *that* is something that is not appropriate in the least, period.

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I think passions are getting a little heated here.  Perhaps a number of people just need a break from the thread at this point?
 

In Katarack's defense I am also a forum moderator for a site that allows political discussion.  I can tell you that I spend more time modding the political discussions on that forum than every other possible discussion type/subject combined.  Politics are the bane of discussion on the internet.  Any political thread is lucky if it makes it past the first 2-3 pages without turning into a flame fest, race baiting, moral indignation, melting pot of pure garbage. 

So my advice, as a guy who moderates a forum that allows political discussion, is this.  Don't allow politics on your forums.

Edited by Karkarov
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I think passions are getting a little heated here.  Perhaps a number of people just need a break from the thread at this point?

 

In Katarack's defense I am also a forum moderator for a site that allows political discussion.  I can tell you that I spend more time modding the political discussions on that forum than every other possible discussion type/subject combined.  Politics are the bane of discussion on the internet.  Any political thread is lucky if it makes it past the first 2-3 pages without turning into a flame fest, race baiting, moral indignation, melting pot of pure garbage. 

 

So my advice, as a guy who moderates a forum that allows political discussion, is this.  Don't allow politics on your forums.

 

The problem with that approach is that it will eventually just keep eating away the subjects that can be talked about, and thus eat away from the whole community. Katarack has been hounding me for days now, trying to bait me into an argument. I try to respond to him in a civil manner, and he keeps insulting me, accusing me of misogyny and all sorts of vile stuff. If talking about the real issues a game has is too controversial a subject for the forum of that game, then that forum doesn't really serve any real purpose. If we cannot expect an adult person to be able to keep their emotions in check, then the fault lies with that person.

 

The thing that truly poisons communities is by letting people exercise power over what can and cannot be talked about through getting triggered and getting temper tantrums. A moderator doesn't serve his purpose by trying to make his own job as easy as possible; that is a failing. A moderator serves his purpose by trying to intervene in topics that seem to be getting out of hand, like Gfted did, and to identify poisonous individuals. Pretending that everyone is equally innocent or equally guilty is the worst kind of fallacy someone in a position of authority can make.

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Literally *ALL* that I'm doing is trying to get the politics the hell out of the video game forum. That's it. That's my goal.

I come here to talk about Pillars and to relax. That's it. Politics has no place here.

Edited by Katarack21
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Do you want ants, I mean do you want the thread closed, because that's how you get threads closed. It's a lot easier than figuring out who's right or wrong and it's the go to solution when people start to get too personal. 

 

The easy way and the right way are very seldom the same thing. If a moderator isn't willing to put in the effort of getting to the bottom of these sorts of situations, then he isn't really willing to put in the effort to do his work. The vast majority of people here can keep the conversation civil, and silencing honest conversation in order to placate the poisonous element is a grave injustice, and it is definitely not something you want to do if your aim is to have a healthy and respectful community. The people who can have a civilized conversation shouldn't have to suffer because of the people who can't.

 

The good news is that if Mr Katarack has truly ignored me, then the problem here should solve itself shortly, and if he keeps me on his ignore list, then this scenario in all likelihood won't repeat itself anytime soon.

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Do you want ants, I mean do you want the thread closed, because that's how you get threads closed. It's a lot easier than figuring out who's right or wrong and it's the go to solution when people start to get too personal. 

 

The easy way and the right way are very seldom the same thing. If a moderator isn't willing to put in the effort of getting to the bottom of these sorts of situations, then he isn't really willing to put in the effort to do his work. The vast majority of people here can keep the conversation civil, and silencing honest conversation in order to placate the poisonous element is a grave injustice, and it is definitely not something you want to do if your aim is to have a healthy and respectful community. The people who can have a civilized conversation shouldn't have to suffer because of the people who can't.

 

The good news is that if Mr Katarack has truly ignored me, then the problem here should solve itself shortly, and if he keeps me on his ignore list, then this scenario in all likelihood won't repeat itself anytime soon.

 

There's a button that says "This post has been hidden. Would you like to view it anyway?"

 

You know what else would fix this problem? If you could keep your ****ing politics out of the ****ing video game forum, and stop spewing your "equality is evil and women can't fight men" bile every time somebody wants to talk about stat mechanics.

 

But you can't, because people like you can't ever, ever seem to accept that some places are appropriate for some conversations and not for others.

Edited by Katarack21
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The problem with that approach is that it will eventually just keep eating away the subjects that can be talked about, and thus eat away from the whole community. Katarack has been hounding me for days now, trying to bait me into an argument.

Oh, wow. Wow. Jesus ****ing...wow.

 

I have to go now. I have to go before I get banned.

 

Wow. Just...****ing wow. Jesus christ, you are a ****ing piece of work.

 

Wow. ****ing......wow.

 

Hounding your for days? Trying to bait you into an argument?

 

Before yesterday I had a grand total of four interactions with you. I don't even ****ing know you, dude. I don't know you or ****ing care about you at all. I flipped my **** because of your insistence on inserting your vile ****ing politics into every post you make when all I want to do is talk about video games. That's it. I could give a **** about you as a person and I sure as **** don't care enough to "hound" you or "bait" you.

 

You're *not* that important to me. Honestly, nobody on this forum is more than a name to me. I don't know any of you or care to.

 

Seriously, dude. This is nuts. I mean, I'm schizophrenic. What's *your* excuse?

Edited by Katarack21
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The problem with that approach is that it will eventually just keep eating away the subjects that can be talked about, and thus eat away from the whole community. Katarack has been hounding me for days now, trying to bait me into an argument.

Oh, wow. Wow. Jesus ****ing...wow.

 

I have to go now. I have to go before I get banned.

 

Wow. Just...****ing wow. Jesus christ, you are a ****ing piece of work.

 

Wow. ****ing......wow.

 

Hounding your for days? Trying to bait you into an argument?

 

Before yesterday I had a grand total of four interactions with you. I don't even ****ing know you, dude. I don't know you or ****ing care about you at all. I flipped my **** because of your insistence on inserting your vile ****ing politics into every post you make when all I want to do is talk about video games. That's it. I could give a **** about you as a person and I sure as **** don't care enough to "hound" you or "bait" you.

 

You're *not* that important to me. Honestly, nobody on this forum is more than a name to me. I don't know any of you or care to.

 

Seriously, dude. This is nuts. I mean, I'm schizophrenic. What's *your* excuse?

 

 

I've been pondering a few moments now whether to respond to publicly or privately, but since you don't seem to be a completely isolated case, I'll do it here. This is not a mental hospital. If you truly are schizophrenic, you do your own condition a serious disrespect by hiding behind it and using it as an excuse for your abhorrent behavior. You are responsible for how you conduct yourself regardless of your mental issues, and there are mental institutions in every major western country to take care of people who are clinically unable to do that. Since you're not in such an institute, judging from the fact that they rarely allow patients to freely use the internet, you must consider yourself capable of controlling yourself within the public space and with making such an assumption, you choose to be responsible of what you say to other people.

 

Now the kind of venom you have sprouted here against me is completely inappropriate and hurtful. I absolutely detest people trying to silence me through insults and accusations when I have done nothing to warrant it. I have shared my views in a very polite manner, especially with you, and you having this personal issue with me and trying to ostracize me and bully me to silence is simply disgusting behavior. Hate me, but do it somewhere else, and if you're having some sort of psychotic breakdown, at least have the decency to apologize afterwards. And if you truly cannot control yourself, then public space is truly not a place for you, and if you ask your doctor he will confirm that. The liberties and rights to express our feelings and emotions publicly come with the fact that we are fully responsible for what we do and say. If you are unable to carry that responsibility, then you should not be having the associated rights either.

 

Being a schizophrenic does *not* give you the right to bully, insult and publicly degrade pther people.

Edited by Ninjamestari

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I also didn't finish the game due to the somewhat poor pacing of the game. Here are some of the reasons why the game eventually faded out on me.

-The quest logs were a bit too tedious for me to figure out where i needed to go.

 

-The no kill xp and no random encounters made me wander from map to map, with long loading times, with feeling of not actually doing anything, so I got the feeling of no progression

happening for a long time.

I've recently restarted the game, and i'm able to keep up the pace much better now due to White march content. Whenever I feel lost, i can go back to those maps to quickly find something to do, due to packed content there. Perhaps this would be solved in the vanilla game if the city was this highly packed with content.

 

-The reading is a bit tedious due to those descriptive lines of what the character does before he speaks. I never felt that was necessary in any of the games before, as I felt what emotion the character was trying to portray simply with them the speaking those words. You can see this with how you can reply during conversation just fine without that descriptive text. In this case I believe less is better because there is more left to the players imagination on who you are talking to and you don't end up with situations where you cringe due to how the writer decided to portray the character in front of you. (example: a character licks* his lips before attacking you)

 

-Also learning to check which character was a backer character before talking to anyone, so not to waste my time, was quite annoying as well.

 

-The world felt too game focused as well perhaps and made me not very interested in exploring it. I recognize this is something Obsidian actually prided on, but knowing you're going to pop out of petrification 6 seconds later made me wonder why this status even exists, other than just being a harsher version of paralyze effect to inconvenience you during combat?  I would prefer more variance in these effects and would like to see point of spells being used outside of combat. (trap detect, invisibility, teleport, heal wounds, dispell, sound dampen and distract (for stealth), etc.)

Edited by zimcub
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snip

 

 

 

So, what about the bits of this that aren't a personal spat between the two of you? Katarack isn't the only one who's been irritated by your posting.

 

Personally, I think it's one thing to post about gender and gaming. I'd much prefer it be in its own thread, rather than half the threads on the board, but gender and gaming at least has to do with games. When you start with asides about the place of men and women in modern, real life society, it veers far from the subject matter most people are here to discuss. I suspect it's fine by you if it's only you doing it and expressing your own views. Would you really want to frequent a gaming forum where dozens of other commenters were constantly sharing anecdotes about their friends in support of various social and political views, sidetracking conversations about mechanics and storylines, if the sidetracking views were ones in opposition to your own?

 

Some of this seems more appropriate to another section of the forum, and some of the rest of it seems like it might be best if you started your own thread about it, where people who were interested in the topic could engage with it there.

Edited by eselle28
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-The world felt too game focused as well perhaps and made me not very interested in exploring it. I recognize this is something Obsidian actually prided on, but knowing you're going to pop out of petrification 6 seconds later made me wonder why this status even exists, other than just being a harsher version of paralyze effect to inconvenience you during combat?  I would prefer more variance in these effects and would like to see point of spells being used outside of combat. (trap detect, invisibility, teleport, heal wounds, dispell, sound dampen and distract (for stealth), etc.)

 

In essence, a disconnect the game mechanics have with the fantasy and the 'reality' of the world. This I think is another example where the concepts the game uses ought to be rooted more firmly in reality. The whole pre-casting thing revolves partially around a similar issue; the inability to cast a spell unless you're in combat feels arbitrary and disconnects the player from the fantasy. I really can't stress the importance of this point enough; building strong game mechanics based on concepts that are firmly rooted in reality is fundamental in delivering a strong immersion through the game-play. This is why some games can get away with a not-so-good story phasing while others cannot; if the game-play itself provides a strong connection to the fantasy, then having longer periods without scripted interactions, story-related or otherwise, can actually not only be much more tolerable, but also reinforce the immersion and the player's connection to the game rather than taking away from it.

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snip

 

 

 

So, what about the bits of this that aren't a personal spat between the two of you? Katarack isn't the only one who's been irritated by your posting.

 

Personally, I think it's one thing to post about gender and gaming. I'd much prefer it be in its own thread, rather than half the threads on the board, but gender and gaming at least has to do with games. When you start with asides about the place of men and women in modern, real life society, it veers far from the subject matter most people are here to discuss. I suspect it's fine by you if it's only you doing it and expressing your own views. Would you really want to frequent a gaming forum where dozens of other commenters were constantly sharing anecdotes about their friends in support of various social and political views, sidetracking conversations about mechanics and storylines, if the sidetracking views were ones in opposition to your own?

 

Some of this seems more appropriate to another section of the forum, and some of the rest of it seems like it might be best if you started your own thread about it, where people who were interested in the topic could engage with it there.

 

 

I am not responsible for your irritation, and you do not have the right to determine what I can and cannot speak about just because some lines of thinking lead me to subjects you don't like. You being irritated is your own personal problem and doesn't give you any special powers to not treat others with respect. I'm not the one who keeps bringing this topic up again and again and again. If you don't wish to derail this thread further, then don't keep responding to non-topic issues. Being irritated is not a valid reason for bad behavior, and an adult person must recognize this. If you disagree with something I say, then do so in a respectable manner and share with me your reasoning. If you're afraid that your questions and arguments would generate drama and wish to avoid that, and you're truly interested in discussing it, then I'll be happy to exchange ideas via private messages.

 

Being irritated is not a valid reason for bad behavior.

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