Torment: Tides of Numenera Released

[Ganrich]

I can't get over how there are only 3 incredibly generic Foci in the game. I just left Sagus. So I haven't reached the end, but I'm getting the impression that the foci were gutted with a lot of the other content. Which is sad because Foci are where Numenera's class system gets a lot of its charm. If I am wrong then please correct me. I would love to be wrong.

[Rorschach]

I can't get over how there are only 3 incredibly generic Foci in the game. I just left Sagus. So I haven't reached the end, but I'm getting the impression that the foci were gutted with a lot of the other content. Which is sad because Foci are where Numenera's class system gets a lot of its charm. If I am wrong then please correct me. I would love to be wrong.

Do foci have any impact in the game other than the bonus? Like different reaction from characters or something like that. So far (still in Sagus Cliffs) I haven't seen anything like that. If they don't they could just have made like six or nine without much problem. Anyway, I think there are other things (mind reading, skills in general, tides) that are more important and have a decent amout of reactivity.

[Ganrich]

 

I can't get over how there are only 3 incredibly generic Foci in the game. I just left Sagus. So I haven't reached the end, but I'm getting the impression that the foci were gutted with a lot of the other content. Which is sad because Foci are where Numenera's class system gets a lot of its charm. If I am wrong then please correct me. I would love to be wrong.

Do foci have any impact in the game other than the bonus? Like different reaction from characters or something like that. So far (still in Sagus Cliffs) I haven't seen anything like that. If they don't they could just have made like six or nine without much problem. Anyway, I think there are other things (mind reading, skills in general, tides) that are more important and have a decent amout of reactivity.

Foci are somewhat like a PrC in D&D. They are a flavor that is stacked on top of the class. So, a Nano could "Ride the Lightning" or "Control Gravity" in the P&P game. These are typically involved with combat, and I know that isn't a focus of the game, but they could at least have given us less generic ones. I don't want to spoil, but follow the main quest a bit more and you will unlock your three options for foci.

[Heijoushin]

I can't get over how there are only 3 incredibly generic Foci in the game. I just left Sagus. So I haven't reached the end, but I'm getting the impression that the foci were gutted with a lot of the other content. Which is sad because Foci are where Numenera's class system gets a lot of its charm. If I am wrong then please correct me. I would love to be wrong.

 

Alas, I think you are correct. In the whole game, those were the only 3 offered. I had completely forgotten about them until reading your post.

[GhostofAnakin]

I got a chuckle out of reading some of the comments by gamers in the comments section of the reviews where they complain about how much reading there is.

 

Did these people NOT play PST?

[Orogun01]

 

 

I can't get over how there are only 3 incredibly generic Foci in the game. I just left Sagus. So I haven't reached the end, but I'm getting the impression that the foci were gutted with a lot of the other content. Which is sad because Foci are where Numenera's class system gets a lot of its charm. If I am wrong then please correct me. I would love to be wrong.

Do foci have any impact in the game other than the bonus? Like different reaction from characters or something like that. So far (still in Sagus Cliffs) I haven't seen anything like that. If they don't they could just have made like six or nine without much problem. Anyway, I think there are other things (mind reading, skills in general, tides) that are more important and have a decent amout of reactivity.

Foci are somewhat like a PrC in D&D. They are a flavor that is stacked on top of the class. So, a Nano could "Ride the Lightning" or "Control Gravity" in the P&P game. These are typically involved with combat, and I know that isn't a focus of the game, but they could at least have given us less generic ones. I don't want to spoil, but follow the main quest a bit more and you will unlock your three options for foci.

 

And none of the three have any benefits for Nanos.

[Ganrich]

 

I can't get over how there are only 3 incredibly generic Foci in the game. I just left Sagus. So I haven't reached the end, but I'm getting the impression that the foci were gutted with a lot of the other content. Which is sad because Foci are where Numenera's class system gets a lot of its charm. If I am wrong then please correct me. I would love to be wrong.

Alas, I think you are correct. In the whole game, those were the only 3 offered. I had completely forgotten about them until reading your post.

That's truly sad. The use of Numenera's system in this game is about pointless except for the setting itself. I can deal with content cuts when it comes to unfinished companions and areas, but this is a bit too much for me. How can they not finish their class system? It's a bit much, IMHO. I'll finish the game with my current PC and probably shelve the game in hopes of a few updates that add some of this in. If not then I am very uninterested in playing again.

 

It's ironic that they made the decision to go turn based to avoid the combat issues of PST, and then gut the class system and leave us with a very bland and uninspiring combat system that takes longer than RTwP would have. I can deal with PSTs combat because it is brain dead, but quick. They arguably made the combat more of a chore than PST. Which is kind of funny. They could have forgone combat entirely and just have made an isometric story focused point and click game like Stasis, and I wouldn't care. Ugh. Sorry for the rant.

 

Edit: @Orogun - Yeah, my playthrough is a Nano that is quickly becoming a skill monkey diplomat for lack of anything else of interest. What a waste.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Ganrich

[Fenixp]

Did these people NOT play PST?

And, more importantly, the game never pretended that its focus is going to be on anything but a whole lot of text - so the more precise question would be "Can't these people read?"

 

... Oh, right, they can. They just won't. Sorry, stupid question.

[Rorschach]

Foci are somewhat like a PrC in D&D. They are a flavor that is stacked on top of the class. So, a Nano could "Ride the Lightning" or "Control Gravity" in the P&P game. These are typically involved with combat, and I know that isn't a focus of the game, but they could at least have given us less generic ones. I don't want to spoil, but follow the main quest a bit more and you will unlock your three options for foci.

I meant in TTON, I'm somewhat familiar with the P&P game. I mean, aside from the small numerical boost, is there anything else on them in TTON? Like I said, does people recognize if I breathe shadows or I don't? I understand they can't overdo it because there's only so much reactivity you can get, but if they only afect stats-wise, I don't see how they couldn't just come up with a few more.

And as pointed above, the most disappointing aspect was that not a single one was fitting for my character - a Nano.

Anyway, I'm enjoying the game so far. Maybe because I set my expectations really low because I knew it wasn't going to be PST, but anyway, I'm having fun.

[Ganrich]

 

Foci are somewhat like a PrC in D&D. They are a flavor that is stacked on top of the class. So, a Nano could "Ride the Lightning" or "Control Gravity" in the P&P game. These are typically involved with combat, and I know that isn't a focus of the game, but they could at least have given us less generic ones. I don't want to spoil, but follow the main quest a bit more and you will unlock your three options for foci.

I meant in TTON, I'm somewhat familiar with the P&P game. I mean, aside from the small numerical boost, is there anything else on them in TTON? Like I said, does people recognize if I breathe shadows or I don't? I understand they can't overdo it because there's only so much reactivity you can get, but if they only afect stats-wise, I don't see how they couldn't just come up with a few more.

And as pointed above, the most disappointing aspect was that not a single one was fitting for my character - a Nano.

Anyway, I'm enjoying the game so far. Maybe because I set my expectations really low because I knew it wasn't going to be PST, but anyway, I'm having fun.

Ah, OK. I understand. Yeah, the foci in this aren't much other than small boosts. One is in skills, another in stealth, and the last in melee. I didn't expect major story solutions to arise from Foci. I just hoped that it would let me make my character a little more unique. You get three bland options. The Last Castoff is so vanilla that it's bitter which can't be said about TNO.

 

I don't hate the game, but I am disappointed. I didn't expect PST, but I expected them to make the combat enjoyable while having interesting quests and the like. The only interesting thing with combat is in combat dialogue. Everything else would be better in RTwP, imho, because it is so bland that it becomes a chore. Which is avoidable, but sometimes you fail a task that initialized combat. I just wish they would've scrapped combat entirely at this point.

[Starwars]

I'd agree that the combat isn't too good. I think there are many good ideas and I like the idea of "puzzle encounters" and that you can use many different elements of the battlefield and so forth. But the execution is not good. And I keep having problems where I will send my characters to interact with something but the game appears to... I dunno, hang for a bit? Which in turn cancels my action (and I don't mean when I've moved too far, I mean when I should have legit actions to take). It feels rather janky.

[Bartimaeus]

Did these people NOT play PST?

 

Given that PST sold very poorly (cult status notwithstanding), probably not.

[algroth]

I got a chuckle out of reading some of the comments by gamers in the comments section of the reviews where they complain about how much reading there is.

 

Did these people NOT play PST?

Some of the remarks are very funny, yes. However, whilst I still haven't played the game it does occur to me that some of the most recent iso-RPGs have been a little too obsessed over length and word-count, using observations such as "Tides of Numenera has more words than the Bible" as bragging rights of some sort, and in turn feel a little exhausting and baggy. Torment works for me because the text is not there to fill a mininum word-count quota but to actually describe or expand on things of interest, thus making the writing seem adequate throughout. If the things being described aren't interesting and long conversations involving branches within branches become a norm beyond what is necessary (see Tyranny for the latter, for example), eventually that can make the game feel like a chore and the prospect of another conversation somewhat daunting, even for players with the right mindset for games like these.

 

Again, I cannot say if this is the case for this game in particular, and I am acting as Devil's advocate here. I have read a couple saying that Tides feels less writing-heavy than Tyranny, which makes me quite happy to hear - and I do say this as someone who's all the same enjoying Tyranny at the moment as well, so it's not a deal-breaker/sealer for me anyhow.

Edited March 4, 2017 by algroth

[Lexx]

Well, let me just quote myself from a few weeks ago.

 

 

 

The only really negative thing I've noticed so far is that there often is *so much* boring, unnecessary filler text. At some point I've stopped reading the introduction descriptions in dialogue, and it felt like I was actually missing out on nothing at all. Really, at times I feel like this game has huge amounts of text just to be able to say it has huge amounts of text... Hint: Sometimes less is more.

[Blodhemn]

That's just bad writing. I couldn't tolerate it in The Witcher 2 even. Completely killed the series. It's like text generated by programmers rather than being poetic, stylized or natural dialogue. Hate it in books, hate it in games.

[ShadySands]

 

Well, let me just quote myself from a few weeks ago.

 

The only really negative thing I've noticed so far is that there often is *so much* boring, unnecessary filler text. At some point I've stopped reading the introduction descriptions in dialogue, and it felt like I was actually missing out on nothing at all. Really, at times I feel like this game has huge amounts of text just to be able to say it has huge amounts of text... Hint: Sometimes less is more.

I often did the same. It's just really uneven. Some of the walls of text were interesting and drew me in and others I'd just start skimming then start skipping.

[GhostofAnakin]

Don't get me wrong.  I've bought it but haven't played it yet, so I don't know precisely how much reading there actually is.  However, when a game makes it clear it's a spiritual successor to a game that was widely known as basically like a novel, one would expect some large degree of reading to be involved.

 

The comments section just made me chuckle because it's like they expected Destiny but in isometric form, and are now completely taken by surprise by how much reading is involved.

 

It brings up another question: Do people not actually read previews/reviews of games they're unfamiliar with before buying? 

[algroth]

It brings up another question: Do people not actually read previews/reviews of games they're unfamiliar with before buying? 

I usually don't, but I generally know to some extent or another what I'm getting into, by means of a general Wiki description, some screenshots or the likes. I only really read reviews following the games, though I may skim one or two prior.

Edited March 4, 2017 by algroth

[Oerwinde]

Just read a summary on Reddit that basically half the stretch goals got cut, including like 3 or 4 companions.

[EUIX]

I just got to the bloom. So far so good, I had already played through the Sagus cliff section multiple times in the early access so I didn't see any new content until after that point. There are definitely a couple of bugs that they didn't fix even after the beta. For instance, if you reload and go into the Lazaeret the dead Peerless ones bob around. Also a couple of quest threads don't finish completely. Definitely mad about all the stretch goals that got cut. I remember during the kickstater how much hype there was and now seeing all the goals become pages from a choose your own adventure book is bad. Also there seems be some lack of polish, in the interface but also just small things, i.e. the interface and design of the Mere just looks amateurish. Also characters can't seem to turn on the spot and instead have to execute a small 360 turn around which sometimes causes them to get stuck.

 

We will see how things shake out. So far it has taken me about 23 hours to get to the bloom. I guess this game will be 40 hours at most.

[Hurlshort]

Just read a summary on Reddit that basically half the stretch goals got cut, including like 3 or 4 companions.

Does it really matter if they deliver a good game though?

[ShadySands]

I'd think for a crowd funded game it does

[Hurlshort]

I guess it does, but I do think people get a little too wrapped up in the details and logistics instead of just enjoying the game for what it is.

 

I've got a few KS backed games that have never been released, so I guess I just see it a bit differently when a title actually gets released and is decent.

[ShadySands]

I've also backed quite a few projects that I'm not certain I'll ever see anything from but I think with a more... more... I'm not exactly sure what to call a studio like inXile because I don't really know anything about them but I think the expectations are higher

 

I agree that the game is great as is but I also can't really fault others for being disappointed that X Y Z was cut. Especially for things that they may have been looking forward to and may have put extra money toward.

Edited March 5, 2017 by ShadySands

[algroth]

Agree with Sands - with the content promised via stretch goals you can't help people have an idea of the game that was more expansive than what it actually turned out to be (which, I understand, is a pretty compact and short game despite the text length). The game may be great but you'll still feel disappointed for not seeing everything that you were expecting to see.