Respecs via Animancers

[FlintlockJazz]

Since all the cool kids are doing their own topics and polls I thought I should get in on the act and do my own.  I reckon the option for respecs/retraining/whatever you want to call them should be sold specifically by Animancers, as it makes sense in the lore instead of just any old trader.  You then get a little cutscene where the character is strapped in and electrocuted or something to redirect their soul flows or whatever, perhaps lobotomised, before getting to re-do your levelling.  Depending on the quality of the animancer doing the work you could even maybe get little buffs or debuffs depending on how good/absolutely terrifying the animancer's work was.

 

Remember to post on the poll, because that means something or whatever.

Edited February 28, 2017 by FlintlockJazz

[algroth]

I'm not entirely sure why it's an animancer's work to do this. Animancers study matters of the soul, this seems like something that should relate more to training camps and the likes. I reckon that having inns be in charge of it was more for reason of practicality, to avoid unnecessary dialogues and travel and so on. Animancy I think could be given a practical purpose more in terms of selling artifacts and components related to their studies, but I don't see this as falling within their field any more than football does a physicist's.

Edited February 28, 2017 by algroth

[MaxQuest]

Sounds interesting. Animancer is more suitable than bartender to do the job anyway

 

As a compromise it could be made such that animancers would be able to reshufle only mental stats (int, per, res).

If Aloth suddenly drops to 3 int, we could always blame them for it.

Edited February 28, 2017 by MaxQuest

[Boeroer]

Well. You drink so much that you forget everything. After that, the barkeeper helps you to remember. Sounds totally plausible to me.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Boeroer

[Amentep]

I'm not entirely sure why it's an animancer's work to do this. Animancers study matters of the soul, this seems like something that should relate more to training camps and the likes. I reckon that having inns be in charge of it was more for reason of practicality, to avoid unnecessary dialogues and travel and so on. Animancy I think could be given a practical purpose more in terms of selling artifacts and components related to their studies, but I don't see this as falling within their field any more than football does a physicist's.

 

I think the idea is that all the skill and powers and stuff is driven by a character's soul, therefore respec in a gameworld sense could/would require a tweak of the soul to accomplish.

[MaxQuest]

Well. You drink so much that you forget anything. After that, the barkeeper helps you to remember. Sounds totally plausible to me.

Hehe, something like: - you are a wizard, Frodo (© the innkeeper of "The Prancing Pony" probably) Edited February 28, 2017 by MaxQuest

[evilcat]

I like ease of use with taverns. Being able to respec in place i come anyway to rest.

After a couple of beers you are not the same person. And deep talk with bartender could really change your view of life.

 

Maybe animancers if we want to augment our attributes stats. A bit more muscle and agility. Fleshmancers. Not sure if that fits the lore

[FlintlockJazz]

 

I'm not entirely sure why it's an animancer's work to do this. Animancers study matters of the soul, this seems like something that should relate more to training camps and the likes. I reckon that having inns be in charge of it was more for reason of practicality, to avoid unnecessary dialogues and travel and so on. Animancy I think could be given a practical purpose more in terms of selling artifacts and components related to their studies, but I don't see this as falling within their field any more than football does a physicist's.

 

I think the idea is that all the skill and powers and stuff is driven by a character's soul, therefore respec in a gameworld sense could/would require a tweak of the soul to accomplish.

 

^ This.  I was under the impression that class abilities were to do with the soul, though maybe they changed that later in development.  Animancers are said to be able to turn people's lives around and such, plus Might is supposed to include spiritual strength and there are hints I think that the soul does have an effect on the physical body, I can see characters going in for a 'tune-up' that includes refocusing their abilities and the like. 

Edited February 28, 2017 by FlintlockJazz

[algroth]

 

I'm not entirely sure why it's an animancer's work to do this. Animancers study matters of the soul, this seems like something that should relate more to training camps and the likes. I reckon that having inns be in charge of it was more for reason of practicality, to avoid unnecessary dialogues and travel and so on. Animancy I think could be given a practical purpose more in terms of selling artifacts and components related to their studies, but I don't see this as falling within their field any more than football does a physicist's.

 

I think the idea is that all the skill and powers and stuff is driven by a character's soul, therefore respec in a gameworld sense could/would require a tweak of the soul to accomplish.

 

Perhaps, but I'm not convinced myself. For starters, animancy is still a science in its fledgling states so I don't think they'd know how to "rewire" a soul, or if it even could be done. Chances are a Watcher would be able to do that to a much better degree. But this aside, there's a perfectly reasonable explanation to a character having a set of skills that doesn't need to involve any sort of soul-theory, and I think that doing so would just muddy the waters as to what animancy's field is, how souls work and so on. I think this should be kept as a matter independent to that of animancy.

[FlintlockJazz]

Meh, I just thought it would be a nice touch and tie into the lore somewhat.

[Amentep]

Perhaps, but I'm not convinced myself. For starters, animancy is still a science in its fledgling states so I don't think they'd know how to "rewire" a soul, or if it even could be done. Chances are a Watcher would be able to do that to a much better degree. But this aside, there's a perfectly reasonable explanation to a character having a set of skills that doesn't need to involve any sort of soul-theory, and I think that doing so would just muddy the waters as to what animancy's field is, how souls work and so on. I think this should be kept as a matter independent to that of animancy.

 

Since I view respec as a game aspect and not a game-world aspect, I don't really need an in-game explanation for it.

 

However the plot of Deadfire itself - that Eothas somehow soul sucks your skills away so that you're a level one newbie pretty much establishes that even the physical skills that are grown through training are still somehow filtered through the soul in the gameworld, so the argument that animancy might be a way to game-world respec still seems to fit to my mind.

 

That said, given that animancy is such a dicey proposition, it seems like there should be an element of risk if you're applying a real game-world condition to respec.

[FlintlockJazz]

 

 

That said, given that animancy is such a dicey proposition, it seems like there should be an element of risk if you're applying a real game-world condition to respec.

 

Yeah, the idea that you could get a temporary buff/debuff was a sort of compromise between "the lore says its dangerous" and "you can't really kill a player's character off or permanently maim them for what is a gameplay aspect". 

 

I do have an ingame explanation: You go to a cheap, backstreet Animancer and since he's cheap he screws it up and gives you the Animantic equivalent of a lobotomy, and dumps in the gutter with the other failed attempts.  Since the Watcher has a Strong Soul however he manages to recover from it, or if its a Companion the Watcher uses his Watcher powers to help them recover.  This then establishes that its dangerous but thanks to the MC's special condition it is explained that they and their companions can uniquely avoid this risk.

 

The world of Eora seems to function on a fundamental basis on souls, that they seem to power everything and define most things in this world.  Weak souls seem to lead to physically weak and sickly bodies, mental illness etc.

[tinysalamander]

 

That said, given that animancy is such a dicey proposition, it seems like there should be an element of risk if you're applying a real game-world condition to respec.

Yeah, the idea that you could get a temporary buff/debuff was a sort of compromise between "the lore says its dangerous" and "you can't really kill a player's character off or permanently maim them for what is a gameplay aspect".

This penalizes those who want to respec and do want the ability to do so, while doing nothing to those who don’t need it. Why?

[Varana]

Retraining is pure gameplay, nothing in-setting. That's like giving the cursor an ingame explanation (Jaheira notwithstanding). Having bartenders sell a potion is merely convenience as there's no button in the UI.

[algroth]

 

Perhaps, but I'm not convinced myself. For starters, animancy is still a science in its fledgling states so I don't think they'd know how to "rewire" a soul, or if it even could be done. Chances are a Watcher would be able to do that to a much better degree. But this aside, there's a perfectly reasonable explanation to a character having a set of skills that doesn't need to involve any sort of soul-theory, and I think that doing so would just muddy the waters as to what animancy's field is, how souls work and so on. I think this should be kept as a matter independent to that of animancy.

 

Since I view respec as a game aspect and not a game-world aspect, I don't really need an in-game explanation for it.

 

However the plot of Deadfire itself - that Eothas somehow soul sucks your skills away so that you're a level one newbie pretty much establishes that even the physical skills that are grown through training are still somehow filtered through the soul in the gameworld, so the argument that animancy might be a way to game-world respec still seems to fit to my mind.

 

That said, given that animancy is such a dicey proposition, it seems like there should be an element of risk if you're applying a real game-world condition to respec.

 

I'm not sure how Eothas' powers work in relation to our character yet. I understand that he takes our soul or something of the sort but I'm not sure if that ties in to our loss of skills specifically, or how it does (could be that he physically drains us too).

 

Regardless I am in agreement that this is mostly a game-world aspect, which is why I'm okay with merchants doing it instead of animancers: usually animancers will not offer you any services, so to attach a game-related service to them would probably make this aspect a lot more intrusive to the game's diegesis than it already may be. I think it's fine as it is, really.

[Amentep]

Thinking about it a bit more, for all we know there are alchemists working with merchants to create soul powered respec-potions.  Since so much in Eora is tied to soul power™, a magical alchemist using soul-power to create a respec potion is just as valid as an animancer, really.

[FlintlockJazz]

Eh I just thought it would add a nice little touch to the game and give a reason to visit Animancers other than for specific quests.  Didn't think people would react so strongly to it tbh. 

[Messier-31]

First and foremost go see a doctor to give you a belly button checkup.

 

Why haven't anyone of you thought about this, srlsy.

 

Sounds interesting. Animancer is more suitable than bartender to do the job anyway

 

Ditto.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Messier-31

[bonarbill]

I'm not letting any of those **** or their machines touch my watcher.  Bad enough I had to tolerate them back in the Dyrwood.  I'll gladly keep the old way of changing attributes.

Edited March 1, 2017 by bonarbill

[FlintlockJazz]

First and foremost go see a doctor to give you a belly button checkup.

 

Why haven't anyone of you thought about this, srlsy.

 

Sounds interesting. Animancer is more suitable than bartender to do the job anyway

 

Ditto.

Nah, if its not the belly button that burns then its usually some other part of my body.  Wait, is that further sign I should be seeing a doctor?

[Lord_Mord]

 

I'll gladly keep the old way of changing attributes.

 

Like our fathers and forefathers had done.

[Lorfean]

I get where you're coming from and it's a nice idea, but IMO not every feature needs a lore explanation and I prefer the practicality of the current implementation. It makes sense to have it in the same window where you hire adventurers, rest, sell your xaurip spears, etc. I also think a cut scene would get tedious.