FlintlockJazz Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 What the hell is all this? Bioware romances are just all bad, full stop, regardless of whether they are same-sex, dual-sex, mega-sex, ****-sex, whatever. You are just arguing different levels of ****, and they are the reason romances in games are so despised by many people. If they put this kinda crap in Pillars then they can just shove it up their arse where it belongs, in fact shove it so hard it pops out their mouths so that it can be reinserted! I feel this thread needs decontaminating again: 8 "That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail "Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beyond The Sea Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 It's good to question if there will be same-sex romances. Maybe there won't be. It's possible. If you offer only heterosexual romantic and sexual content and nothing for gay and lesbian players, then you are very clearly telling gay and lesbian players your game isn't for them, you don't want their money, you don't care what they want. Many games have done that and still do. But why do it when you can simply write romances to be gender-neutral like most of the dialog in PoE already is anyway? I wanted to bring up that Obsidian has been okay with gay characters. Doesn't mean there will be gay and lesbian romances. Just that the company doesn't have a history of homophobia as far as I know. Naturally writing itself can be very subjective. Cheesy, happy end, the aspect of forbidden love or a fantasy escape world free of real life homophobia. Yes, it's always repeated, good fiction needs conflict. Is game romance fiction or is it a fantasy, wish fulfilment? PoE is a fantasy of having adventures in a late middle age/early modern inspired world with magic, a fantasy of being a great warrior or a mighty wizard, becoming stronger and stronger, defeating powerful enemies. Look at Skyrim. The stories are abysmal but the fantasy is fine. That doesn't mean fiction in games is obsolete. I'm sure good writing can make for much better romance. But I'm not entirely convinced a great story is necessary for a perfectly acceptable and decent romance as long as the romance character is appealing in some way, be it in personality, looks or something else. No need to have gay characters revolve around their sexuality any more than the breeders, just take a look at the works of Robin Hobb/ Steven Erikson/ R. Scott Baker/ Seth Dickinson/ Django Wexler/ Elizabeth Bear/ Jacqueline Carey. Oh, thank you for some recommendations. I was just looking for a read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Mord Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) If you offer only heterosexual romantic and sexual content and nothing for gay and lesbian players, then you are very clearly telling gay and lesbian players your game isn't for them, you don't want their money, you don't care what they want. OK, I have enough. That is just stupid. Imagine, you are making Deadfire. You have entire control over every decision, but you budget is limited. You agreed to include romances, because hordes of fanboys/-girls wanted it (You didn't even have to. Remember: You have total control. Maybe for the first time in your life). But you don't want your game to get silly. So making every companion a romance option is out of the question. You want three romances at the maximum. But now the fanpeople want every possible combination of relations between two persons included in that game, just because they start to feel the game would be "not for them" anymore, if they weren't. As if they game would have been "not for them" if there wouldn't have been any romances in the first place. This is an RPG. At the moment I play with a black woman as main character. I'm neither gay, transsexual nor black, but I try to roleplay that character as good as I can and if there were romance options in that game and one of them seemed like a nice person I would play that as well. If there were a romance option fitting my taste I would be glad, but demanding that it has to be in there is just rude. Where does all that demanding come from? People demand from Martin to finish game of thrones. They demand from developers to include minigames fitting to their taste. And so on and so on. In my opinion, all that gossip about who would **** with whom and do you think Aloth would still **** me if I was a boy stuff is an insult to all the efforts the team made for this game and this story. Do you really think the story was about your romantic relationship to Pallegina or Eder? Than I think you missed something. Did you also think the Lord of the rings was about you and Gandalf? I think the main reason why they even hesitated to include relationships into the game (That is what they called it. Relationships. Not ****buddieship.) is that they wanted to spare themselfes this ridiculous and childish discussions and demands. Normal people dont like to be reminded that their customers and fans are idiots. Edited August 9, 2017 by Lord_Mord 11 --- We're all doomed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Wow Psst, relationships are optional. Don't likey? Don't clicky. 4 "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortyTheGobbo Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 What the hell is all this? Bioware romances are just all bad, full stop, regardless of whether they are same-sex, dual-sex, mega-sex, ****-sex, whatever. You are just arguing different levels of ****, and they are the reason romances in games are so despised by many people. If they put this kinda crap in Pillars then they can just shove it up their arse where it belongs, in fact shove it so hard it pops out their mouths so that it can be reinserted! I feel this thread needs decontaminating again: I'm sorry that this surprisingly constructive discussion offends you so much. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheisEjsing Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) Wow Psst, relationships are optional. Don't likey? Don't clicky. Proposterous. If you can sex the pixels, you MUST sex the pixels! Nay, Thou MUST! Edited August 9, 2017 by TheisEjsing 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 That's awesome! 1 "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLaney Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 In my opinion, all that gossip about who would **** with whom and do you think Aloth would still **** me if I was a boy stuff is an insult to all the efforts the team made for this game and this story. Do you really think the story was about your romantic relationship to Pallegina or Eder? Than I think you missed something. Did you also think the Lord of the rings was about you and Gandalf? I think the main reason why they even hesitated to include relationships into the game (That is what they called it. Relationships. Not ****buddieship.) is that they wanted to spare themselfes this ridiculous and childish discussions and demands. Normal people dont like to be reminded that their customers and fans are idiots. doesn't bother me 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjshae Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Wow Psst, relationships are optional. Don't likey? Don't clicky. Proposterous. If you can sex the pixels, you MUST sex the pixels! Nay, Thou MUST! Plus adultery is now "best effort". 1 "It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlintlockJazz Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) What the hell is all this? Bioware romances are just all bad, full stop, regardless of whether they are same-sex, dual-sex, mega-sex, ****-sex, whatever. You are just arguing different levels of ****, and they are the reason romances in games are so despised by many people. If they put this kinda crap in Pillars then they can just shove it up their arse where it belongs, in fact shove it so hard it pops out their mouths so that it can be reinserted! I feel this thread needs decontaminating again: I'm sorry that this surprisingly constructive discussion offends you so much. Point out the constructive discussion. Comparing Bioware romances and saying which are worse is like comparing different types of poop, and the discussion here seems to be consisting of personal attacks and demands dressed up as 'requirements'. If you actually want decent relationships in the game then the best thing would be to steer clear of anything Bioware related. If all you want is gratuitous fap fantasy then at least have the guts and decency to admit to such. Edited August 9, 2017 by FlintlockJazz 2 "That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail "Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algroth Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) What the hell is all this? Bioware romances are just all bad, full stop, regardless of whether they are same-sex, dual-sex, mega-sex, ****-sex, whatever. You are just arguing different levels of ****, and they are the reason romances in games are so despised by many people. If they put this kinda crap in Pillars then they can just shove it up their arse where it belongs, in fact shove it so hard it pops out their mouths so that it can be reinserted! I feel this thread needs decontaminating again: I'm sorry that this surprisingly constructive discussion offends you so much. Point out the constructive discussion. Comparing Bioware romances and saying which are worse is like comparing different types of poop, and the discussion here seems to be consisting of personal attacks and demands dressed up as 'requirements'. If you actually want decent relationships in the game then the best thing would be to steer clear of anything Bioware related. If all you want is gratuitous fap fantasy then at least have the guts and decency to admit to such. Not sure which comments you are singling out here, but I wasn't comparing BioWare romances myself, and aside from Viconia (which I do think is well written, but hey, YMMV and all that) I have not referred to any of them, partly because those mentioned (Mass Effect and Jade Empire) I have not played. I merely addressed the focus/approach, which I agree should be focused on characters and motivations firstly, and *then* be allowed to develop into romances if it makes sense for what is being told with each, rather than on the romances themselves and the sexual orientation they adopt. Edited August 9, 2017 by algroth 1 My Twitch channel: https://www.twitch.tv/alephg Currently playing: Roadwarden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smjjames Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Isn't the days of Baldurs Gate before bioware became, well, the bioware we know today? Also, other games not by bioware were mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algroth Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Isn't the days of Baldurs Gate before bioware became, well, the bioware we know today? Also, other games not by bioware were mentioned. It's still BioWare though, which is why I mention it as an exception. My Twitch channel: https://www.twitch.tv/alephg Currently playing: Roadwarden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smjjames Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) Well, I've never played any of BioWares games, not Baldurs Gate even. Edited August 9, 2017 by smjjames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wormerine Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Well, I've never played any of BioWares games, not Baldurs Gate even. To me, BioWares main claim to fame is the Bioshock games. ......... If there is a joke in here, which I am to dumb to get, then pleas excuse me. Bioware and bio shock has no relation with each other. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smjjames Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Well, I've never played any of BioWares games, not Baldurs Gate even. To me, BioWares main claim to fame is the Bioshock games. ......... If there is a joke in here, which I am to dumb to get, then pleas excuse me. Bioware and bio shock has no relation with each other. NVM! Confusion on my part, somehow. correcting..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
injurai Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 You're thinking of Biohazard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smjjames Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 You're thinking of Biohazard The only Biohazard stuff I can find on wiki is Resident Evil, and that's Capcom. Also, I checked bioware and they (well, a section of theirs) did create Mass Effect and Dragon Age, so, whoops again on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
injurai Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortyTheGobbo Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) Point out the constructive discussion. Comparing Bioware romances and saying which are worse is like comparing different types of poop, and the discussion here seems to be consisting of personal attacks and demands dressed up as 'requirements'. If you actually want decent relationships in the game then the best thing would be to steer clear of anything Bioware related. If all you want is gratuitous fap fantasy then at least have the guts and decency to admit to such. Algroth, Beyond The Sea and I, among others, were discussing the inclusion, or lack thereof, of different kinds of romances. Romances from BW games were used as examples, mostly in terms of approach. If anything here is a personal attack, I'd say it's storming in and demanding everyone shut up. I haven't attacked anyone, nor have I felt attacked, until that point. I understand not liking games by a particular developer, but the degree to which BioWare seems to set people off is... odd, to say the least. As far as "demands" go... fandoms have certainly become teeth-shatteringly obnoxious and supremely entitled nowadays. But let's not swing the other way and act like developers can just do whatever they want and no one can judge them. They put forward a product, and people will have expectations of it. Fair or otherwise. Desiring that they handle inter-character relationships a certain way is no different than desiring that they don't reduce party size to 5. Edited August 9, 2017 by MortyTheGobbo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smjjames Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Point out the constructive discussion. Comparing Bioware romances and saying which are worse is like comparing different types of poop, and the discussion here seems to be consisting of personal attacks and demands dressed up as 'requirements'. If you actually want decent relationships in the game then the best thing would be to steer clear of anything Bioware related. If all you want is gratuitous fap fantasy then at least have the guts and decency to admit to such. Algroth, Beyond The Sea and I, among others, were discussing the inclusion, or lack thereof, of different kinds of romances. Romances from BW games were used as examples, mostly in terms of approach. If anything is a personal attack, I'd say it's storming in and demand everyone shut up. I understand not liking games by a particular developer, but the degree to which BioWare seems to set people off is... odd, to say the least. +1 to morty here, and I checked the past few pages and it looks pretty civil. @flintlock: Maybe you could give some examples of non-bioware romance stuff, since you're so intent on not including bioware. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkarov Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Normal people dont like to be reminded that their customers and fans are idiots. Funny story. You would be shocked by how many businesses out there rely on this exact situation to be profitable. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Mord Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) doesn't bother me But you admit, they are idiots? Seriously: You don't mind if your fans take all that you've invented and break it down to a simple "cute or not"? Edited August 10, 2017 by Lord_Mord --- We're all doomed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Mord Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) As far as "demands" go... fandoms have certainly become teeth-shatteringly obnoxious and supremely entitled nowadays. But let's not swing the other way and act like developers can just do whatever they want and no one can judge them. They put forward a product, and people will have expectations of it. Fair or otherwise. Desiring that they handle inter-character relationships a certain way is no different than desiring that they don't reduce party size to 5. Of course they can do what they want. It's their thing and your expectiations dont matter. You don't have to buy it. Seeing everything as a product is a sickness. Is Game of thrones a product? No, it's a book, it's Martins story and if he had no interest in finishing it, nobody has the right to force him. Do you think if James Joyce had written Ulysses in a way his potential "customers" would have liked, anyone would give a **** about that book today? If you want to see computer games as an art (which a lot of people claim they already are), than you have to trust the ****ing artist and dont interfere with his or her ideas. If you knew how to make a computer game you would do so, wouldn't you? But you dont. Edited August 10, 2017 by Lord_Mord --- We're all doomed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Mord Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Funny story. You would be shocked by how many businesses out there rely on this exact situation to be profitable. I said "normal people". My definition of normal does not include capitalistic whores. I assume Obsidian cares for their creations. --- We're all doomed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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