List of Subclasses as we learn about them.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

And that's a problem with fighters. And as Boreoer pointed out Monks and Barbarians. I'd just like options, right now a barbarian archer is not very good in PoE despite being a cool concept I'd be willing to do.

[Osvir]

Frenzy Archer? Probably works in Eternity 1 just fine. But the most cool version (for Barbarian) would be a dual wielding double axe thrower or double javelin thrower IMO. Probably won't happen but would fit the Barbarian best (Thinking of something like Troll Headhunter from WarCraft 3, they even have the Frenzy ability too).

Best I could think of would be a sort of Sensuki gun wielding Barbarian sub-class (He did something like it in BB of Eternity 1, using only guns and switching weapons IIRC). Shooting once, switching, shooting twice, switching, shooting a third time, then reload time, I think. I think that with Frenzy your character would reload faster too, and if you add in high Dexterity and Gear that fastens recovery time you could have a fast gunner. But does the Barbarian fit the concept and the theme of a gunslinging shooter? I dunno.

EDIT: Would you consider The Kid (Cowboy) to be a Barbarian? Maybe? Couldn't one consider the Wild West bandits to be Barbarians in some sense?

Edited July 15, 2017 by Osvir

[Boeroer]

Frenzy doesn't do anything for reloading time. For a barb, the only things speeding up reloading is DEX, the gunner talent and Sure Handed Ila from a fellow chanter.

So the only thing that Frenzy does for a quick switching gun user is to add 4 MIG. Now that's underwhelming.

 

I think if you want to do a ranged barb then guns is the worst decision. With Frenzy, Bloodlust and Blood Thirst you can at least achieve some nice attack speed with a war bow. I tried that and it's still totally meh.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Boeroer

[fiddlesticks]

Ranged builds in general end up being supbar when compared to meleeing. Rangers and Wizards can get away with it, because they have powerful class-specific abilities/talents which mitigate the DPS disadvantage (and half the Ranger's damage is melee anyway due to the pet), and I suppose casters don't care much about auto-attacks either way, but everyone else is better off in the thick of it. The only reason Fighters et al. would use ranged options is a) for opening strikes or b) for hitting enemies in the back.

 

Though I don't think that's a problem with class versatility so much as an inevitable result of gameplay balancing. Melee builds have to be superior to compensate for the fact that you're directly exposing yourself to enemy attacks. Almost all of the Fighter's abilities work with firearms or bows as well, but she'll never be as good with them as with a Greatsword, and that's honestly a good thing. 

[Boeroer]

That's not universally true.

 

You completely ignore that a melee combatant has to run to his target (or the target to him) and thus looses a lot of potential DPS compared to a ranged combatant who can just switch targets in range without any time loss.

 

This is more obvious when playing on PotD where you have more enemies and the fights last longer.

 

That's one reason why a monk with The Long Pain is more powerful than a monk with Transcendent Suffering.

 

It's also the reason why Boots of Speed are a DPS booster if you prefer melee and a defensive tool for ranged characters.

 

And by the way all active offensive abilities of the fighter only work in melee except Clear Out and Into the Fray. The latter makes no sense for a ranged fighter, as do all the abilities around engagement (Defender, Overbearing Guard) and defense. You simply don't need them as a ranged fighter but you have to take some because there's no alternative. The nicest active tools of a fighter (Knockdown, Sundering Blow, Charge) can't be used with ranged weapons which leads to a very boring build which only has some passive damage bonuses and is more sturdy than it needs to be.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Boeroer

[MortyTheGobbo]

I'm not sure if adding ranged options to fighters, barbarians and monks would be advisable. All three of them have themes and mechanics geared towards close combat. I like variety, and I like how much of it there is in Pillars. And Deadfire continues to bring more. But sometimes you just need to know when to fold it. I could see monks, since they've already got an ability for that. But those other two... not so much.

[Boeroer]

Rogue has a subclass named "Street Fighter".

 

Source: https://m.soundcloud.com/usgamernet/axe-of-the-blood-god-120-pillars-of-eternity-ii-deadfire-with-obsidians-josh-sawyer

[Boeroer]

So basically it's a sbuclass of the rogue that doesn't do exceptionally good single target damage when they operate 1:1 - but damage and stuff rather get better and better the more enemies surround or flank him and the more damage he takes (he can get "Blooded", but with other effects like the barb in PoE1 I guess).

 

Josh talks about a multiclass combo of the barb subclass names "Berserker" which has a more powerful but also firendly-fire Frenzy (Carnage also hits team members) with the "Street Fighter" - where both subclasses synergize pretty well. The Berserker shouldn't stand near friends and rather be surronded by enemies because of his dangerous nature - and the Street Fighter needs so be surrounded or flanked by enemies as well.

[smjjames]

Streetfighter sounds like a good subclass for that rogue/monk concept, not to mention a good fit themeaitically.

[Gromnir]

And that's a problem with fighters. And as Boreoer pointed out Monks and Barbarians. I'd just like options, right now a barbarian archer is not very good in PoE despite being a cool concept I'd be willing to do.

 

am knowing there is fans o' barbarians.  we actual like a couple barbarian characters we has played.  however, am thinking barbarian is the one irredeemable character class. developers specific observed how they were intending to avoid class-defining abilities or powhaz.  barbarians and, to a lesser degree, rogues is both developer fails in this regard.  the barbarian is wholly defined by how a player utilizes carnage. sneak attack is a similar class-defining ability, but its application and use is a bit more flexible and broad than carnage. am suspecting one could serious nerf carnage and add a few additional barbarian abilities to flesh 'em out a bit and make 'em more varied, but the developers likely realize such fundamental changes is rear-view mirror regrets. barbarians is popular and there is 10 additional classes (plus multi-class and sub-class options) so the recognition o' the curiously obvious carnage focus for barbarians is unlikely to inspire a need for wholesale changes in poe2... in spite o' fact such changes would seem to be called for in this case.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Quillon]

Streetfighter

Now I expect a monk subclass named Mortal Combatant.

[smjjames]

I hope we learn the other two subclasses for Monk with the update on multiclasses and subclasses. The only one we know about atm is the Nalpazca subclass.

[blotter]

 

 

I hope we learn the other two subclasses for Monk with the update on multiclasses and subclasses. The only one we know about atm is the Nalpazca subclass.

 

They've also mentioned the Shattered Pillar monk subclass in the last Q&A. For it, wound generation is tied to damage that they inflict on enemies, but the threshold for wound generation is higher and the maximum number of wounds that they can sustain is lower. It seems like it might blend well with cipher since they'd be able to double dip on resource generation through the same actions.

[injurai]

What is Nalpazca anyways? I've tried searching for it; perhaps it's some in-game faction/tradition of monks. Certainly doesn't seem to be a real world thing.

[blotter]

What is Nalpazca anyways? I've tried searching for it; perhaps it's some in-game faction/tradition of monks. Certainly doesn't seem to be a real world thing.

 

They're an order of Natlan monks who use hallucinogens in pursuit of enlightenment. Zahua's one of them (basically the last one other than the Watcher if he's right about the fate of his people - barring epilogue developments). I think the basic idea is that the material world is transient/illusory and that the experience of pain and the muddling of the senses allows them to better grasp the deeper truths of the soul or something.

 

Edit: see https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Zahua for details.

Edited September 2, 2017 by blotter

[injurai]

Oh nice, somehow that bit of lore escaped me. Thanks!

[SaruNi]

So basically it's a sbuclass of the rogue that doesn't do exceptionally good single target damage when they operate 1:1 - but damage and stuff rather get better and better the more enemies surround or flank him and the more damage he takes (he can get "Blooded", but with other effects like the barb in PoE1 I guess).

 

Josh talks about a multiclass combo of the barb subclass names "Berserker" which has a more powerful but also firendly-fire Frenzy (Carnage also hits team members) with the "Street Fighter" - where both subclasses synergize pretty well. The Berserker shouldn't stand near friends and rather be surronded by enemies because of his dangerous nature - and the Street Fighter needs so be surrounded or flanked by enemies as well.

 

Nice concept, but not a great name for it....

 

While it's been done before with warrior types, having a rogue with these mechanics is somewhat original. One of the main issues with rogues attacking from stealth in PoE 1 was that they'd get targeted by multiple enemies and hit repeatedly. This turns that into a virtue---I like the idea of the rogue who pops out of the shadows to take on a mob. Rogues are going to be sturdier in PoE 2 but I still wonder how much use they can get out of "Blooded" with a limited health pool (let yourself get hit, then run?... get hit then apply buffs / disables to make yourself unhittable? or maybe have great defenses and self-injure, maybe via monk multiclass or dangerous implements?). I also like that it doesn't limit their effectiveness to mobs / flanking situations (depending on how large the Blooded bonus is---hopefully the bonus for taking lots of damage / being near death will be large enough to make it wortwhile as a possible strategy). 

 

It would be amusing if a rogue could gather a mob of weak enemies around himself for the bonuses while firing ranged weapons at stronger enemies (or boss fights with lots of adds)... that would be counterintuitive, but in a fun way. (And explainable as the mob of enemies, the chaotic blur of combating bodies, making it more difficult for the distant enemy to see the attack coming.)

 

Also seems like a good subclass for those great crit-me builds Boeroer posted. Not to mention retaliation effects, parry, etc.

Edited September 2, 2017 by SaruNi

[Sacco26]

Can we have a rogue/wizard hybrid called a spellthief? I'd love that, I'm planning on making my main this type of class.

[smjjames]

You can definetly make that combination, whether or not you'll be able to change the label of the multiclass combo for your PC is unknown at this point.

 

 

 

 

I hope we learn the other two subclasses for Monk with the update on multiclasses and subclasses. The only one we know about atm is the Nalpazca subclass.

 

They've also mentioned the Shattered Pillar monk subclass in the last Q&A. For it, wound generation is tied to damage that they inflict on enemies, but the threshold for wound generation is higher and the maximum number of wounds that they can sustain is lower. It seems like it might blend well with cipher since they'd be able to double dip on resource generation through the same actions.

 

 

Oh yeah, forgot about that one.

Edited September 5, 2017 by smjjames

[PugPug]

Do multiclasses have names? Are we limited to 2 classes?

[Amentep]

Multi-classes do have names (although I do not believe all are known yet) and as far as I know multi-class is limited to 2 classes.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Do multiclasses have names? Are we limited to 2 classes?

Yes on both counts.

[rjshae]

Two classes seems like plenty, unless possibly you're solo-ing and want to use three.

[PugPug]

Two classes seems like plenty, unless possibly you're solo-ing and want to use three.

 

I agree. No triple combinations I want to try come to mind, and if there were any, you could play something very similar in style with only two.

[Gromnir]

our main concern with sub classing and multiclassing is balance issues. in d&d, pre 3e multiclassing were advantageous. the level lag were not particular onerous pre 3e.  unfortunate, particular with bab and the importance o' caster levels, effective halving potential 3e level advancement were crippling save for in the case o' prestige class advancement or 1-2 levels o' X and 18 levels o' Y builds.  subclassing were, particular in 2e, broken.  a handful o' kits were so ridiculous overpowered we typical simple said no to anybody wanting to use kits in our campaigns.  were more fair to say no to everybody than to explain why bladesingers and priest o' mystra were verboten.

 

am thinking obsidian is aware o' the systemic power level issues o' multiclassing.  systemic issues will be addressed, and taken as a whole, multiclassing will not be more or less beneficial than single class.

 

am also confident subclasses won't be ridiculous over-the-top powerful.  am recalling iwd2 development and how conscious were some o' the same developers now working on poe: deadfire regarding munchkin kits.

 

...

 

the thing is, game busting exploits don't happen so much at the systemic level in these kinda number based games. like it or not, there is gonna be synergies o' spells and feats and class abilities which make for unexpected and excessive op builds.  to be able to adequate anticipate all such game busting builds strikes us as an improbable task for standard qa monkeys.  is simple too many possible combinations for qa to test, particular as the testers ain't necessarily hardcore build craftsman.

 

am concerned, but will wait for the beta before making alarmist chicken little predictions.

 

HA! Good Fun!