List of Subclasses as we learn about them.

[Quillon]

Interesting... how will Deadfire handle respec.

Will it allow to change second class, or will it lock main-secondary class combination once picked. Because there might be some x/y optimal builds for early-mid game and x/z for late game.

You could also take advantage of being a certain class in narrative and changing secondary classes would be inconsistent/cheating so it'll be locked most certainly.

 

Tho I don't know how will secondary class work in dialogue; will 19 barb + 1 cipher able to use cipher powers in dialogue?.. ah maybe class calls include power source level check so instead of [CIPHER] class call in dialogue we may see [PSIONICS #].

Edited June 20, 2017 by Quillon

[MortyTheGobbo]

The buffet-style multiclassing has been resoundingly proven not to work, so I hope they don't use it.

[Boeroer]

I still think Josh just meant it differently. I can't see any reason why he would overthrow everything he told us about Deadfire's multiclassing so far (in backer updates, twitch streams, vids and so on) and secretly use a completely different approach.

[illathid]

Could be a situation where both are possible. You can select a multi-class at character creation like in BG or decide on a second class at some later point like in NWN. Having one doesn't necessarily mean you can't have the other.

[Katarack21]

Could be a situation where both are possible. You can select a multi-class at character creation like in BG or decide on a second class at some later point like in NWN. Having one doesn't necessarily mean you can't have the other.

 

Doesn't that increase the complexity, though?

[Doppelschwert]

Just to reiterate that AD&D dual classing being a possibility is neither a secret nor betraying what they already said, the corresponding SA-post:
 

Still sounds like one of those early alpha things that you scrap and talk about later on in a video saying "yeah we had this awful clunky system before we came up with X"

Well, what would you like out of multiclassing? We can regulate multiclassing in a much cleaner fashion if you're willing to give up flexibility. Multiclassing at CC (AD&D style) would be relatively clean and easy because everything could be advanced according to a simple formula. We could also do something where you always start with a base class and then at a specific level, you gain the option (only then) to multiclass, progressing the joined classes in tandem, e.g. fighter into battlemage, so there's a heavier emphasis on the fighter side.

I don't have any particular attachment to this system. I made it to give players a lot of options while addressing one of the major shortcomings of 3E multiclassing. That said, ProfessorCirno is correct that synergies are the things that can make individual combos insanely good or relatively bland depending on how the mechanics work together. E.g., no, Carnage won't ultra-boost Focus, but cipher self-buffs combined with barbarian powers could still be extremely strong.

 

I'll point out again that Josh uses multiclass at CC synonymous to the system in AD&D where there is a fixed progression to follow.

 

There are some obvious benefits for the developers to constraint the free picking of classes each level. Fixed progression automatically solves any issues with level dipping and the combinations to check for QA are reduced tremendeously. I think this is a very real alternative, and I wouldn't be surprised if they end up chosing something like this - not that I overly care, since I can build fun characters either way.

 

If someone has a social media account, feel free to just ask josh directly about the issue.

Edited June 20, 2017 by Doppelschwert

[injurai]

CC?

[Doppelschwert]

CC = Character Creation

[illathid]

 

Could be a situation where both are possible. You can select a multi-class at character creation like in BG or decide on a second class at some later point like in NWN. Having one doesn't necessarily mean you can't have the other.

 

Doesn't that increase the complexity, though?

 

 

Well it'd depend on a couple of different factors I think. 

[smjjames]

New info on a new Chanter subclass:

 

 

 

Some (I think) new info on Chanters in a jesawyer post in a thread on the ProjectEternity subreddit:
 


 
 

All phrases in Deadfire have the same base recitation and linger durations. Instead of having different levels of phrases, there's just a single large pool of phrases to choose from. Invocations are still categorized by levels, with higher level invocations being more powerful and costing more phrases.
 
Chanters have three subclasses. One, the troubadour, has Brisk Recitation as a modal to speed up phrase rate (with commensurately shorter linger) like Sirin. The beckoner is summoning-focused. We haven't talked about the third subclass yet.
 
The cost scaling for chanter Invocations is also compressed, so the top level Invocs don't cost 9 phrases. You will also start each combat with a small number of phrase count (like breath) that increases with power level.
 
Overall, chanters should feel like they have more opportunities to use their Invocs and their higher level Invocs should be more accessible earlier in combat.

[anameforobsidian]

I have to say, I might like hearing more about the kits than the dual-class names.  There are some cool concepts in there and I'm excited for the build variety.  I want an orlan berserker / chanter; constantly drunk and shouting songs that set things on fire indiscriminately.  

[Boeroer]

Did you mean subclasses or dual classes?

[MortyTheGobbo]

That's a pretty welcome change to the Chanter, I must say. I hope fewer phrases are as situational as some were in Pillars - like the one that gave you bonuses to Disengagement defence.

[smjjames]

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/162499356586/since-there-are-now-three-subclasses-per-class

 

It appears that the orders in Deadfire will be the same and no new ones and the dieties will be the same, but priests will be significantly different in some way. So, I suppose the subclasses are independent of orders and dieties.

[Boeroer]

He didn't say that. As far as I understood from previous information (streams) paladins and priests will have more than three subclasses - because every order/diety works like a subclass and there will be no base class.

But of course this may have changed.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

So Priests and Paladins have 5 class variations(6 for Paladin if you count Pallengia's if certain conditions are met) with no base class? I hope they do more to differentiate them then, like one unique spell per level and unique order abilities.

[Boeroer]

Josh said they will be more different than in PoE1, esp. the priests.

[MaxQuest]

I could imagine Josh specializing them a bit.

 

Pure speculation on my part:

- Priest of Magran could be focused on fire spells, especially DoTs like Shinning Beacon.

- Priest of Eothas could be more of a healer (gets a bonus to restoration, guardian and resurrection spells; maybe also ability to heal injuries).

- Priest of Berath (closer to Paladin) passive bonus to 2H; focused on self buffs, like Champion's Might and Minor Avatar. Being able to fight for a few seconds even at zero endurance. And so on.

- Priest of Scaen (closer to Rogue) passive bonus to dual-wielding;

- Priest of Wael (closer to Wizard) passive bonus implements; Bonus to status effect durations.

Edited July 6, 2017 by MaxQuest

[JerekKruger]

I think Josh said at some point that there will be more variation between the spell lists of each Priest, with more unique spells as well. 

[Quillon]

- Priest of Berath (closer to Paladin) passive bonus to 2H; 

- Priest of Scaen (closer to Rogue) passive bonus to dual-wielding;

"Passive bonus to weapon type" was a thing in Pillars?

[smjjames]

 

- Priest of Berath (closer to Paladin) passive bonus to 2H; 

- Priest of Scaen (closer to Rogue) passive bonus to dual-wielding;

"Passive bonus to weapon type" was a thing in Pillars?

 

 

Priests do have the 'favored weapon' thing, which is the closest it gets, but I've read that the bonus is pretty small, almost inconsequential.

 

Although I could imagine priests of Magram having a bonus to gunpowder weapons, because gunpowder.

 

Differentiating via what spells they have so that the priest isn't just a pure healer regardless of diety seems like the best way to go.

Edited July 6, 2017 by smjjames

[injurai]

I wish they choose different priest orders, because I don't really like our options from a lore perspective.

 

We get a lot of Eothas and Magran from Eder and Durance. Durance should have been a unique priest. I guess I understand an Eothas priest.

 

Magran but no Ondra?

 

Wael is clever idea as a deity idea, but doesn't really end up playing out in that interesting of a way.

 

I'd rather they gave us Woedica or Rymrgand for a 'malevolently aligned' route. They seem to have more tact and justification for themselves than Skaen. Which better fits the

the watchers path.

 

Berath was a good pick imo.

 

I'd want it to be:

 

Berath

Woedica

Galawain (Would be good for a Orlan priest)

[Ondra              or    {Eothas

and Magran]            and Rymrgand}

[smjjames]

Galawain doesn't seem to have a priesthood per se, not that we saw in PoE1, and Rymrgands priests seem more limited to the Pale Elves, though he does have a temple in Twin Elms. And lore wise, all of Woedecias priests are the Leaden Key.

 

Could be something to ask the devs why they didn't have the others available as deities.

Edited July 6, 2017 by smjjames

[MaxQuest]

"Passive bonus to weapon type" was a thing in Pillars?

Yes, as smjjames already linked, priests could take a deity talent that would give them +10 accuracy with two predefined weapon types.

 

I was thinking of something similar, which would be given automatically when you choose the 'subclass'.

It doesn't have to necessary be the acc bonus, rather something unique. Few example from top of my head:

- scaen's weapon passive: increases base damage of stilettos and daggers by +2

- berath's weapon passive: each hit makes a roll vs fortitude and will. If both hit, priest drains 2 CON from the target (for 30s duration; stacks with itself).

- wael's weapon passive v1: attacks done with implements deal damage that targets enemy's lowest DR on graze and hit; and debuff it's highest DR by -7 on crit.

- wael's weapon passive v2: when you crit with implements twice in a row, instantly release one more attack (this attack always crits, but cannot trigger the effect itself).

Edited July 6, 2017 by MaxQuest

[smjjames]

Probably wouldn't want to specialize too much because one of the great things about PoE is that you can do a melee wizard or a ranged rogue* (or a ranged monk*) if you really wanted to, and I fully expect Obsidian to keep to that.

 

*Obviously, you'd be missing out on some of the class functions/abilities, but the thing is that there is absolutely nothing stopping you from doing so if you absolutely wished to, and a ranged rogue and monk could still be pretty functional.