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Chanter

Chanter/Druid

Chanter/Wizard (if there are more Wizard summoning spells)

Chanter/Ghost Heart Ranger

 

Chanter and/or Wizard subclass?

 

(not to mention summons from items)

 

But lore-wise I would love a Summoner subclass. 

Edited by SaruNi
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The Chanter is the summoner class.

Chanter can basically summon stuff but it's not necessary just summoning IMO. To me chanters magic comes from chanting phrases. It can focus on buffs, debuffs, dispell, offensive magic and i think literally anything if you asked me.

That's neither here nor there. The class was designed to be a buff bot, or deebuff bot, and be the game's summoner. Most summoner classes in other games don't just summon. They have other magic too.

 

Regardless of your views of the Chanter, it doesn't change what the class was designed to be. Every invocation level has two summons available to it but the 4th, and it still has one. Which means it has 7 summons total that it could cast. It is a summoner. You just have to build it that way.

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I think the Chanter doesn't really represent the Summoner fantasy people want to go for, and that is the core of the issue. To me, chanter is not a 'summoner', a chanter is PoE version of a Bard. I think what people want is a Warlock/Necromancer type summoner, because hell, that's what I want too, not a friggin Singing summoner.

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I think the Chanter doesn't really represent the Summoner fantasy people want to go for, and that is the core of the issue. To me, chanter is not a 'summoner', a chanter is PoE version of a Bard. I think what people want is a Warlock/Necromancer type summoner, because hell, that's what I want too, not a friggin Singing summoner.

Chanter is the Bard archetype too. That's true. It was given summons because of its ramp up mechanics which let them keep people from spamming summons. Which is the real reason people don't like it. The Chanter is kind of broken on most difficulties.

 

Sorry, though. The chanter Definitely has enough dark phrases/invocations and undead/spirit summons to make a Necromancer. You not liking the Chanter still won't change that it is the Summoner Archetype.

 

As someone that hates summoners and likes Bard's, I wish they'd move the summons to another class too. I won't hold my breath on it, though.

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I think the Chanter doesn't really represent the Summoner fantasy people want to go for, and that is the core of the issue. To me, chanter is not a 'summoner', a chanter is PoE version of a Bard. I think what people want is a Warlock/Necromancer type summoner, because hell, that's what I want too, not a friggin Singing summoner.

 

Druids and Mages did get more summons in the expansion and patch 3.0.  I'm hoping they expand the summoning list for those classes since I'm not a fan of chanter summoning.  

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The summoner class should have its own unique mechanics; I don't think the spell casting system in PoE lends itself well to a proper summoner. I'd take notes from how Druids and Necromancers functioned in Diablo 2. Call the class "Invoker" or "Conjurer" or "Warlock" or something, give it a talent-like system where you can choose to invest in the power of your summons, how many summons you can have up at any one time, what kind of abilities your summoned monsters have etc. Have some buffing and direct damage spells as well. The Summoner could have some sort of spellpoint resource system, let's say 5 points per second regeneration, 100 point maximum and spells that cost anywhere between 20 and 100 points to cast, and the spellpoints could degenerate to 0 out of combat. The lore could be that their soul manifests energy that binds semi-sentient entities from ether to the caster or something like that.

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From d20PFSRD Pathfinder wiki:
 

 

While many who dabble in the arcane become adept at beckoning monsters from the farthest reaches of the planes, none are more skilled at it than the summoner. This practitioner of the arcane arts forms a close bond with one particular outsider, known as an eidolon, who gains power as the summoner becomes more proficient at his summoning. Over time, the two become linked, eventually even sharing a shard of the same soul. But this power comes with a price: the summoner’s spells and abilities are limited due to his time spent enhancing the power and exploring the nature of his eidolon.

 
Role: Summoners spend much of their time exploring the arcane arts alongside their eidolons. While their power comes from within, they rely heavily on their eidolon companions in dangerous situations. While a summoner and his eidolon function as individuals, their true power lies in what they can accomplish together.

So you can do general summoning, creatures and animals and such, but you can summon one more powerful creature that is bound to you and whose evolution you can influence. It is like a ranger's animal companion or a sorcerer's familiar, but much cooler.

That is what I'd like to see, ideally.

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I think the Chanter doesn't really represent the Summoner fantasy people want to go for, and that is the core of the issue. To me, chanter is not a 'summoner', a chanter is PoE version of a Bard. I think what people want is a Warlock/Necromancer type summoner, because hell, that's what I want too, not a friggin Singing summoner.

 

I certainly don't agree. I like the fact that this setting has distinctive elements, rather than being a cookie-cutter version of every stereotyped fantasy realm out there. Giving the Chanter a special talent like this makes them much more useful than the lame D&D Bard class. Hopefully Obsidian won't water that down too much.

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No, the Pathfinder class is too specialized and while another class may be cool we've already got 11 that cover a lot of bases before multiclassing and subclasses are factored in. A Chanter subclass that gives better summons or can summon with less phrases would be cool though.

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Many (possibly most) magic systems that involve summoning also involve chanting invocations. As pointed out, the Chanter is not necessarily a bard. In PoE, the Chanter is also associated with Lore, which is generally closely paired in fantasy with learning how to summon entities. And summoning rituals usually take more time to cast than ordinary spells. So, provided additional in-game lore is added, a Chanter Summoner sub-class makes perfect sense. Perhaps, like the Ranger Ghost Heart subclass, additional mechanics could be added to make Chanter Summoner have more necromantic elements... maybe involving sacrifices. (Additionally, priests could be given summons specific to their deities, so a chanter could supplement Summoner summons with priest or druid or wizard multiclassing. Maybe even give Ciphers an Animancer subclass that involves summons and engineering or "animating" special equipped construct items.)

Edited by SaruNi
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Writing a necromantic class would require too much reactivity to do adequately.  People do not like necromancy in PE.  No one likes necromancy.  Also, there are no other planes to summon monsters from.  I think we'll probably get a druid or chanter subclass and that will be the end of the matter.

Edited by anameforobsidian
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But there are manifestations of ether, spirits, ghosts and wisps and stuff like that. A summoner archetype could be built around those concepts, it doesn't have to be strictly necromancy.

 

I'll tell you one thing, If they did make a proper summoner class, then that's the class I'd be rolling.

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But there are manifestations of ether, spirits, ghosts and wisps and stuff like that. A summoner archetype could be built around those concepts, it doesn't have to be strictly necromancy.

The Chanter can already summon them (phantasms, skeletons and wisps). I think too many people get stuck on the Chanter singing. The lore behind the class is that they stir via chant fragment of souls and lost souls who then perform acts of magic for them.

 

It's a totally creepy class...

Azarhal, Chanter and Keeper of Truth of the Obsidian Order of Eternity.


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And chants can also be seen as incantations, not necessarily jolly tunes a bard would play to cheer up the crowd - I mean the "spells" of the chanter are named "invocations" for a reason.

 

Don't necromancers use mysterious incantations to summon the undead? Totally fits.

 

Don't reduce chanters to "singing". Look at the sinister Death Godlike guy at Magran's Fork. He's a psychopath serial killer chanter who's personal theme evolves around killing and death. Not quite the bard type...

 

There might be a reason why you can't hear chanters sing in the game, even if they are chanting phrases.

Edited by Boeroer
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Agreed, boeroer. People heard someone say Chanters are like Bards once, and the rest is history. The Chanter now has the Bard stigma, and it plays nothing like them. The only thing it retains is that it's Chants can be cast while doing other actions like a Bard Song in most games. Otherwise it's a caster focused on Buffing, Debuffing, and summoning. Those are its strengths. Well, and Dragon Thrashed is also a strength, which is stupid good... Probably OP. Chants are more like normal spells than singing. You are reciting ancient words of power, and that is spell casting in a nutshell.

 

I expect a subclass that significantly increases the speed of them building of phrase counters, but diminishes their AoE or the numerical value of their buffs. Thus, a more summoner friendly chanter, or invocation focused in general. Now, you can summon more quickly. Another idea is a Chanter that builds chants slower, but starts with a near full counter like the Cipher. So they can use abilities at the onset of combat, but take longer to get another cast. Honestly, I think it might be wise to speed up Chant count building in general since invocations are tough to get to use outside of PotD, or hit the drawing board on that mechanic in general.

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You can rationalize it all you want, I don't like chanters, and neither do the people who keep demanding a summoner class. If they liked the chanter summoning, they'd be happy. That means there is a demand for another class to fulfill the fantasy chanter fails to. It's up to Obsidian to choose whether or not to cater to that demand, it's their game and their vision, but the fact remains is that there is this summoner fantasy niche that the chanter doesn't fill, and no amount of "people get too stuck on the singing" will change that.

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You're right. That said, Chanters are the summoner class of PoE, and no amount of you not liking them will change that. Could it change in Deadfire? Sure. Should it? Maybe. Will it? I doubt it, unfortunately.

 

I would prefer they offloaded summons onto another class, but I doubt they will. The Chant mechanic is a good inhibitor on clustering the field with summons, and I expect that is exactly why they were given the summoning forte in the first game. Whether, they will change that or not is up in the air.

 

I repeat, I like Bard classes, and I hate summon classes. This marriage is just as irritating for me as it is for you. I would prefer they move summons to another class, speed up chant building, and let the class be focused on mixing mundane combat (be it melee or ranged) and magic casting more. Whether it happens or not... is up for debate. They wanted Chanters to have something specific that they did vs the 4 other casters. (Druid, Wizard, Priest, Cipher). The only thing they really have to give the Chanter that is unique is summons.

 

I just find it odd that people claim PoE has no summoning class when it is abundantly clear that it does. Not liking the Chanter is fine. I want it to be something it isn't at the best of times. Saying there isn't a summoner is factually wrong.

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The Chant mechanic is a good inhibitor on clustering the field with summons,

It wasn't the cast in the early beta. Summons didn't disappear after combat so you just accumulated them until they were destroyed. I once ended up with might own little skeletons army. ;)

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Azarhal, Chanter and Keeper of Truth of the Obsidian Order of Eternity.


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