Romance

[Fluffle]

 

I know I know EA is one of the reasons if not THE reason why many dislike if not outright LOATHE romances in video games.

 

It's not EA making these things, it's Bioware. And they're pretty proud about it.

 

 

Okay all the hate to Bioware then instead

That wasn't necessarily my point

[GloatingSwine]

 

I def want romance in PoE2, though I'm not optimistic. 

 

They can't cater to everyone, so.. just make Eder romanceable and half the fandom will be happy.

 

Make Aloth romanceable too and most of the fandom will be happy.

 

 

Make Aloth and Iselmyr romanceable seperately.  It's the only way.

 

I'm not married (har har) to the idea of companion romances in RPGs any more. It was fun back in BG2 but it's never really progressed beyond "pick the right multiple choice answer".  If you want to have romance in a game it should be a foundation of the game and probably be between fixed characters and drive part of what those characters are about.

[Amentep]

I know I know EA is one of the reasons if not THE reason why many dislike if not outright LOATHE romances in video games.

 

Still, I would like to share this with you: Mass Effect Andromeda's New Approach To Romance

 

So, let's see how the romances in Andromeda will turn out.

 

It sounds potentially like a move in the right direction.  Execution being key.  I've said before that for a romance narrative to work, you can't have the romance subsume the character of the NPC (ie the romance shouldn't happen just because the PC wills it).  There should be a lot of variables in it, the end goal shouldn't end up at the same place and most importantly the character should remain interesting and responsive to the story if not romanced.

 

Curious now to see what Bioware has done.

[Rorschach]

I know I know EA is one of the reasons if not THE reason why many dislike if not outright LOATHE romances in video games.

 

Still, I would like to share this with you: Mass Effect Andromeda's New Approach To Romance

 

So, let's see how the romances in Andromeda will turn out.

 

I guess I'll be just repeating what I said earlier and therefore what others said before me, but anyway. This is exactly what I would want to avoid. The whole focus on who will we be able to romance, how, etc. Just think about it with another prespective: does anyone ask: "Will I be able to be friends with this character?". I don't think people really want believable relationships. I think they want an idealized version of them, and that's what BW do, only now they say they want to offer a wider spectrum. Also, it seems that most characters with romance end up being defined by it. Last but not least, making six or more characters potential romances for the player character feels like cheap fanservice, making it more like choosing between brands at the supermarket than having an emotional relationship with a sentient being.

 

 

and most importantly the character should remain interesting and responsive to the story if not romanced.

 

Exactly.

[Fluffle]

@Rorschach

Just to make sure, you did read the article, right? And after reading it you say "This is exactly what I would want to avoid."

 

So does this apply to the entire article, right?

 

"This means more mature situations and dialogue, as Walters notes the first Mass Effect spent a great deal explaining the lore of the world and the different races through the characters than focusing on their individual personalities. "I think we've moved beyond just doing info dumps on characters," Walters says. "It comes back to the circumstances. That is what we should be talking about. What are those people actually thinking right now? I think that's the mature aspect of it. Let's not ignore everything that's going on just so we can have a moment to say, 'I love you.'""

 

So do you want to avoid this too? Should characters stay info dumps?

With what do you disagree on the quote above?

Edited February 1, 2017 by Fluffle

[Skyleaf]

I know I know EA is one of the reasons if not THE reason why many dislike if not outright LOATHE romances in video games.

 

Still, I would like to share this with you: Mass Effect Andromeda's New Approach To Romance

 

So, let's see how the romances in Andromeda will turn out.

 

IMHO, Bioware is already making major improvements with romance in DA:I 

 

Coincidentally, I've just finished my 3rd playthrough with a romanced Blackwall. With or without romance, his story is really deep. There are 4 possible endings with him (2 romanced, 2 non-romanced). One astonishing revelation in the middle of it (at least when you find out the first time). One possible tragic but poignant epilogue when you romance him (which I got).

 

A lot of gamers quit on this game because of time wasting filler quests so the romance part of it doesn't get a fair shake. I'm taking a break but will do a 4th playthrough. Hopefully, I'll finish in time for T:ToN, when it's officially out.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Skyleaf

[Rorschach]

@Rorschach

Just to make sure, you did read the article, right? And after reading it you say "This is exactly what I would want to avoid."

 

So does this apply to the entire article, right?

 

"This means more mature situations and dialogue, as Walters notes the first Mass Effect spent a great deal explaining the lore of the world and the different races through the characters than focusing on their individual personalities. "I think we've moved beyond just doing info dumps on characters," Walters says. "It comes back to the circumstances. That is what we should be talking about. What are those people actually thinking right now? I think that's the mature aspect of it. Let's not ignore everything that's going on just so we can have a moment to say, 'I love you.'""

 

So do you want to avoid this too? Should characters stay info dumps?

With what do you disagree on the quote above?

Yes, I did. Sorry, my fault on the confusion. What I meant with "this" is the studio having to talk about romance as a core mechanic of the game that they have to put there in the best way possible and not something that can be a consequence of the writing

 

They even talk about that a romance doesn't have to be a longer relationship than any other and other things I mentioned, but looking at their career they are guilty of purpousfully almost everything they now say it can be done better.

 

To be clear, I agree with many things they say in that article, but what I don't buy is the way they shove romance anywhere they can. If I recall correctly, they had romance in every game they made since BG2, and there has been little to non evolution in that. Only thing they changed is now they cater more people. What bothers me is how unavoidable it seems. There are more romances in each game, no matter what my choices are (unless I'm mean to them, they don't really care if I commit genocide, they'll only dislike you if you do something bad but close to them). I if want to have a romance in a BW game it feels like I just have to pick one and doesn't really feel like I have to even try, they'll just fall for me because, you know, I'm the main character or something. We know that's something that is still happening even if they add other kind of relationships.

 

I know I'm now in muddy waters since here comes into play my prejudice and skepticism towards anything they say, so maybe it's better to ignore me than to try to understand me As an example, to pretend I'm not a hater, I'll name KOTOR, where even if the quality of the overall dialogues can be argued, I think the romance with Bastila was well integrated on the story and was not just out of the blue as most others.

[LordCrash]

 

I know I know EA is one of the reasons if not THE reason why many dislike if not outright LOATHE romances in video games.

 

Still, I would like to share this with you: Mass Effect Andromeda's New Approach To Romance

 

So, let's see how the romances in Andromeda will turn out.

 

IMHO, Bioware is already making major improvements with romance in DA:I 

 

Obviously, you never "romanced" Cassandra. It's hard to imagine a more heavy-handed, overly cheesy and laughable, unbelievable "video-gamey" romance... 

[Skyleaf]

I actually think that Cassandra's romance is quite nice. There's a whole lot of camp but the romance was fluid. She was the romanced character in my first playthrough, kind of like a test run since I doubted that I'd like her stiff personality. The cheese was the actual appeal in this one. I'm sort of reminded of those goofy 80s romance movies I would watch on TV when nothing else was on.

 

She was the reason I played the game again after shelving it for more than a year. She was being stupid, talking in riddles and being indecisive but I was too curious to see where the game was going with this.

 

Solas and Blackwall are heavy hitters, so something straight forward and lite like Cassandra is reasonable in my opinion. Now, Sera's romance I hear is pretty garbage so I'm avoiding that one at the moment.

 

I'm doing Josephine next.

[SiliconMage]

I do want companion romances, but I think like most other people in this thread, I really want them to be well done.  The last update posted on the Pillars of Eternity II page was, I think, a big hint.  It may be that romances are included, but all in all, it sounds like they are preparing to up their writing game for the returning companions.  If the three returning companions are the only romance-able companions in the game, I would be totally fine with that.  Making everyone romance-able just seems like too much.  

[Archaven]

They really need romance as stretch goals. I think that may out of a sudden pull a big crowd from the Bioware fans to start pledging.

[Ganrich]

They really need romance as stretch goals. I think that may out of a sudden pull a big crowd from the Bioware fans to start pledging.

I said something similar earlier in the thread. Say what you will about your preferences on Romance... but it's an incredibly popular request. If they can get the news out to Bioware's fan base it could cause a huge boost in new backers and upped pledges. If they have the time and desire to do them properly then I have no issue as long as it isn't to the detriment of other areas of the game. We will see. I expect the $2M stretch will be hit a little after this time tomorrow, but I could be overly optimistic there.

 

If I were a decision maker at Obsidian, I would make Romances a late late late stretch goal. Get other systems first, and use Romances as a final push at the end of the campaign. That could be why they have avoided any discussion on it in Fig's comments, as well. It's a late campaign stretch goal, and they don't want to get people's hopes up this early in the campaign just in case they don't get near it. Or they aren't doing it at all. Both are possibilities.

[Archaven]

 

They really need romance as stretch goals. I think that may out of a sudden pull a big crowd from the Bioware fans to start pledging.

I said something similar earlier in the thread. Say what you will about your preferences on Romance... but it's an incredibly popular request. If they can get the news out to Bioware's fan base it could cause a huge boost in new backers and upped pledges. If they have the time and desire to do them properly then I have no issue as long as it isn't to the detriment of other areas of the game. We will see. I expect the $2M stretch will be hit a little after this time tomorrow, but I could be overly optimistic there.

 

If I were a decision maker at Obsidian, I would make Romances a late late late stretch goal. Get other systems first, and use Romances as a final push at the end of the campaign. That could be why they have avoided any discussion on it in Fig's comments, as well. It's a late campaign stretch goal, and they don't want to get people's hopes up this early in the campaign just in case they don't get near it. Or they aren't doing it at all. Both are possibilities.

 

 

That's not good either. If it's the last stretch goal.. Most probably would be the ones that's most difficult to achieve. Most backers have already pledged. The only thing possible would be through post funding options like paypal and such.

[Ganrich]

 

 

They really need romance as stretch goals. I think that may out of a sudden pull a big crowd from the Bioware fans to start pledging.

 

I said something similar earlier in the thread. Say what you will about your preferences on Romance... but it's an incredibly popular request. If they can get the news out to Bioware's fan base it could cause a huge boost in new backers and upped pledges. If they have the time and desire to do them properly then I have no issue as long as it isn't to the detriment of other areas of the game. We will see. I expect the $2M stretch will be hit a little after this time tomorrow, but I could be overly optimistic there.

If I were a decision maker at Obsidian, I would make Romances a late late late stretch goal. Get other systems first, and use Romances as a final push at the end of the campaign. That could be why they have avoided any discussion on it in Fig's comments, as well. It's a late campaign stretch goal, and they don't want to get people's hopes up this early in the campaign just in case they don't get near it. Or they aren't doing it at all. Both are possibilities.

 

That's not good either. If it's the last stretch goal.. Most probably would be the ones that's most difficult to achieve. Most backers have already pledged. The only thing possible would be through post funding options like paypal and such.

As I've said, I'm more interested in almost everything else vs romances, but I don't think it will be too late. If it is indeed a stretch at all. They are already poised to beat Fig's other top campaigns. Psyconauts and WL3 specifically. They have almost cleared total backers for WL3 already, for instance. They are going to be at $2m in the next day or two and those games ended in $3.1 (WL3) and $3.3m (Psyconauts). Don't underestimate how much people will add to their pledge for a wanted feature, and we will have more than 17k backers by the end of the campaign. Add that to what some Bioware fans will bring in if they are made aware. They also will want enough time to give Bioware fans time to react and pledge/invest. So, I expect we will know, one way or the other, when we have around a week left of the campaign. We will see.

[Blacklotus30]

You know I can't believe I created an account just so I could give my two cent on this topic

 

 

I'm all for romance but I want them to feel  natural and not forced in like some of the romance option in ME3 ended up and kind of ruined certain characters for me. When my PC reject a love interest normally that said ex love interest just ignore it and go on in your party like nothing happen, That always annoy me to no end. But much as I HATE Bishop, atleast when your character reject him it feels like it had some weight, that is what i want out Romance in video games. People like to mention BG2 as the best Bioware romances. While I like them good enough it didn't have the same impact on me as  NWN: HOTU Valen Shadowbreath romance. Also I still play NWN just because of the  modules and one of the best romance story that came out was the Aielund saga( Which Black must have met Alistair at one point and gave him some tips, the rose scene )

Edited February 1, 2017 by Blacklotus30

[Amentep]

You know I can't believe I created an account just so I could give my two cent on this topic

 

Welcome aboard!  Hope you stay around and contribute further!

[Ganrich]

Indeed! Stay a while and listen... Errrr, contribute.

 

I am one of the crazies that thought (other than BG2) Bioware's best romance was Bastilla in Kotor. Not because I am a fan of her character, but because it tied into the story well, and it made a difference at the end of the game. It worked for me. Even if Bastilla didn't.

[Blarghagh]

Bioware's best romance was Aerie/Haer'dalis. The fact other people were having their high school drama time made your drama time feel less like gratification for teenagers.

[Amentep]

Indeed! Stay a while and listen... Errrr, contribute.

 

I am one of the crazies that thought (other than BG2) Bioware's best romance was Bastilla in Kotor. Not because I am a fan of her character, but because it tied into the story well, and it made a difference at the end of the game. It worked for me. Even if Bastilla didn't.

 

I had such a hard time not typing "Stay a while and listen...".  It was even going through my head in Deckard Cain's voice.

[Skladzien]

Please oh Please Obsidian! 

DO NOT ADD ANY ROMANCE in this game!!

i hope i am not the only one who does NOT WANT romances in the RPG game...

 

Edit: Wanted to write something more but my notebook  said he needs to restart in 10 seconds.

 

So, when i first time Played PoE i was kin of "veteran" in all kind of RPG's (started out back in late 80's or early 90's with "Eye of the Beholder" and "Betrayal at Krondor"), and after playing long time Baldur's Gate, then Mass Effect and Dragon Age i was getting used to romances in games (starting with not even single romance oprtion in "real" cRPGs). And so when i launched PoE and first i met Sagani my first thought was: "Hey it would be a romance!" but it wasn't and it was sad. Then i've met Grieving Mother and again i thought: hey! There is surely a romance with that crazy chick! But it wasn't and maybe it was better that way.

After few walkthroughs i didn't only get used "anew" for lack  of romances but i reminded all "old" cRPGs which were free of such **** and were... Better. Yup they were much better because instead of thinking: "Maybe i should go to camp and fck Morrigan again because i just killed her mother and have that grimoire?", i was thinking: "Hey maybe i should go an help Eder cause his story seems to be more important that weird Goth-Chick?" It was first cRPG from many years that was free from this and it felt good.

I don't want PoE2 another "romance simulator" it won't be fun, and it probably make me wonder: "Why the heck i pledged it instead of D:OS2?"

Edited February 1, 2017 by Skladzien

[Ganrich]

 

Indeed! Stay a while and listen... Errrr, contribute.

I am one of the crazies that thought (other than BG2) Bioware's best romance was Bastilla in Kotor. Not because I am a fan of her character, but because it tied into the story well, and it made a difference at the end of the game. It worked for me. Even if Bastilla didn't.

 

 

I had such a hard time not typing "Stay a while and listen...".  It was even going through my head in Deckard Cain's voice.

That voice stays with you. I don't know why. Of course I immediately hear the Tristram Theme after it "just pops in there." If I were in the Ghostbusters we would have to fight a giant Deckard Cain. Talk about terrifying beyond rational thought.

[jones092201]

Archaven, on 01 Feb 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

They really need romance as stretch goals. I think that may out of a sudden pull a big crowd from the Bioware fans to start pledging.

​that's an interesting idea....it makes sense, though I'm not sure what I think about it. One the one hand, I don't have a problem with romances in general, (though crowd-funding does add complications), As a stretch goal, though, with specific expectations provided early by the devs, and reinforced often, you could probably do something with a romance.  

 

However, I feel like Bioware's fan base is younger and less narrative motivated to really make a big impact in a 2d isometric. That's why we've seen Bioware simplify the formula over the last ten-twelve years. Apparently, the much vaunted NEW IP is a multi-player action adventure, or so I read yesterday.

anyway,  stretch goal romance would be something I wouldn't be adverse to.

[LordCrash]

I actually think that Cassandra's romance is quite nice. There's a whole lot of camp but the romance was fluid. She was the romanced character in my first playthrough, kind of like a test run since I doubted that I'd like her stiff personality. The cheese was the actual appeal in this one. I'm sort of reminded of those goofy 80s romance movies I would watch on TV when nothing else was on.

 

Yeah, it's like in real life. Just say some nice things, be a bit cheesy and make the right presents and every woman will adore you and let you **** her in instant. Life is so simple.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

/not

 

But the dream lives on, thanks to Bioware... 

[tinysalamander]

Hopefully, hypothetical romance stretch goal monetary value includes reactivity. Changed/new lines, including different emotions to (likely) most of the later lines if voiced, evaluation of your character (are you a murderhobo?), all that stuff. Gonna be pretty costly, I guess.

 

EDIT: Oh, and those scenes with pictures if your chosen character dies too.

Edited February 1, 2017 by tinysalamander

[Blarghagh]

 

I actually think that Cassandra's romance is quite nice. There's a whole lot of camp but the romance was fluid. She was the romanced character in my first playthrough, kind of like a test run since I doubted that I'd like her stiff personality. The cheese was the actual appeal in this one. I'm sort of reminded of those goofy 80s romance movies I would watch on TV when nothing else was on.

 

Yeah, it's like in real life. Just say some nice things, be a bit cheesy and make the right presents and every woman will adore you and let you **** her in instant. Life is so simple.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

/not

 

But the dream lives on, thanks to Bioware... 

 

 

Yes, I'm sure many people think this is how it works because it's how it works in a game with elves and trolls.