Why Not Both?

[CursedByLight]

Pillars of Eternity 2 is almost confirmed at this point through the pictures on the website, but does that exclude the whole possibility of a new obsidian spinoff of the beloved Fallout franchise? The naming scheme of Project Louisiana is very similar to a project v13 based in Seattle that got scrubbed, as well as the popular Project Brazil mod for New Vegas. New Vegas's modding community is still hyperactive to this day. If indeed a Fallout 4 spinoff is in the works (New Vegas came out 2 years after the release of Fallout 3 so we COULD expect it sometime late this year or early next year) here's what we could hope from the game:

 

• New Orleans's Mardi Gras celebration, Superdome, and the Pontchartrain Causeway bridge could all lead to some fun firefights and story
• Weapon modification that follows a branching scheme instead of Fallout 4's pyramid scheme that lead to best in class weapons
• 4 options, instead of 4 ways to say yes, and a story reason to be evil from the beginning
• A focus on main gameplay, instead of on settlement gameplay, as well as challenging settlement raids
• Different endings, we all loved megaton but there comes a point that explosions aren't the only solution
• Doesn't take itself seriously, and keeps the Fallout humor we love strong
• For the love of shotguns, please more shotguns, perks that diversify, and automatic weapon viability

[Sedrefilos]

Well noone can explude the possibility of Bethesda commissioning a Fallout game to Obsidian but there's nothing confirming this anywhere; neither by Obsidian nor by Bethesda. So at least for the near future I don't believe we'll be seeing an Obsidian Fallout. Unfortunately, since Bethesda totally screwd Fallout 4 up, imo. Not that I expected it to be great, Bethesda is bad when it comes to roleplay, a feature Fallouts are supposed to be mostly about, but I didn't expect I couldn't bare it after less than 10 hours of gameplay :/

Edited January 22, 2017 by Sedrefilos

[evilcat]

Not sure how many big project OE could run at single time (not to mention Armoured Wellfare and Pachfinder Cash Cow Game )

Dividing lead devs to 2 projects... sounds as one from list "things not to do".

[Flouride]

I'm pretty sure Bethesda excludes any future Obsidian made Fallout games. If those morons at Bethesda has any sense they would allow Obsidian to make an old school Fallout cRPG with a smaller team or something similar to New Vegas.  But alas, they are too busy making their own ***t that weirdly some people want to play and won't let anyone else actually make proper game in the universe.

Obsidian has 4 teams at the moment:

Pillars of Eternity 2 (lead by Josh)
Armored Warfare
Pathfinder Card Game (very small team)

And whatever Tim Cain is working on with Leonard Boyarsky (Unreal Engine game, so not a Fallout)

[Rorschach]

I would say there are no chances of Obsidian developing a new Fallout. That said, it is very clear by the teasers (look at other threads of this forum) that Project Louisiana is, indeed, Pillars of Eternity 2. Sawyer has been vocal about the development of it, so it's impossible not be announced soon, and as evilcat pointed, it's highly doubtful that they have two teams to develop major games. So since they are a) definitely working on PoE2 and b) probably not dividing the team, if I were you I would forget about seeing a FO game by Obsidian.

[Quillon]

Course we want both and then some(sequels to AP,VtMB,KOTOR,ARCANUM) but apparently publishers don't agree and also Obs seems pretty occupied. Maybe one of the said games or their spiritual successors in the works tho, if its not a new IP. A Fallout sequel would require 60-100 devs, ıf such development had started it would have been pretty noticeable to some of us.

 

Also apparently Pillars was more profitable than developing an AAA game for a Publisher. So Obs could have declined some offers, tho its still a pretty big company, Pillars can only sustain so much.

[Ganrich]

Course we want both and then some(sequels to AP,VtMB,KOTOR,ARCANUM) but apparently publishers don't agree and also Obs seems pretty occupied. Maybe one of the said games or their spiritual successors in the works tho, if its not a new IP. A Fallout sequel would require 60-100 devs, ıf such development had started it would have been pretty noticeable to some of us.Also apparently Pillars was more profitable than developing an AAA game for a Publisher. So Obs could have declined some offers, tho its still a pretty big company, Pillars can only sustain so much.

Those dev numbers depend on if you mean a sequel to Fallout 1 & 2, or Fallout NV. I know we can assume you mean the latter, but they could start their own FO spin off IP like they did with PoE. Of the games you mentioned Vampie and Arcanum (at least a spiritual successor) are the most likely. Boyarsky came from Blizzard, and and he might have had some connections left to allow them to get the green light for Arcanum in full.

 

I do agree that PoE seemed much more profitable for Obsidian than their published games. They have a lot of projects rolling along at the moment, though. I personally think they could benefit from having another owned IP cooked up to run in tandem with PoE. That might be what Cain and Boyarsky are working on. It would definitely give Obsidian more financial stability than they have had in the past.

[ShadySands]

What happen to the Tyranny team? Folded back into PoE2?

[Ganrich]

I imagine some will be patching Tyranny, some folded into PoE2, and some might be helping Cain and Boyarsky. Will Tyranny get any DLC/Expac love? I haven't paid close attention to it, honestly.

[Quillon]

Those dev numbers depend on if you mean a sequel to Fallout 1 & 2, or Fallout NV. I know we can assume you mean the latter,

Yeah. People are hoping for a sequel to New Vegas.

 

 

 

but they could start their own FO spin off IP like they did with PoE.

What, like a spiritual isometric Fallout? Somehow I doubt Obs would ever do that. They'd also have to compete with Wasteland. I can't see Obs pissing on Beth and InExile at the same time or individually.

 

I do agree that PoE seemed much more profitable for Obsidian than their published games. They have a lot of projects rolling along at the moment, though. I personally think they could benefit from having another owned IP cooked up to run in tandem with PoE. That might be what Cain and Boyarsky are working on. It would definitely give Obsidian more financial stability than they have had in the past.

PoE's profitability is not my opinion, Feargus said it in an interview.

 

Owning another IP without crowdfunding is hard. Whatever their secret project is, either there is already a deal with a publisher or they are preparing it for figstarter. My money is on publisher since Obs is more reluctant to enter crowdfunding again with anything other than PoE otherwise they could have easily funded Tyranny through it. Instead they made a stand with not entering crowdfunding again before they delivered. We'll see how it will/if it will pay off in the coming PoE 2 figstarter.

[Ganrich]

Oh, I know Feargus said it. I worded that poorly. My bad.

 

Game companies have their own IPs, and I doubt Obsidian would piss anyone off building their own post-apocalypse IP. Competition is the name of the game.

 

I agree that Obsidian has been frugal about crowdfunding, and I love them for it. However, if they launched a second game through Kickstarter/Fig after they got PoE2 moving then I would be fine. They have proven themselves worthy of backing them again in my eyes. They aren't 3 kickstarters in with only one game to show for it like some other developers.

 

You are right though. Cain and Boyarsky are either getting something ready for crowdfunding or working for a publisher. They are using Unreal Engine, and that makes me believe it is more likely to be for Publisher for cost reasons. However, it may not be. I am eager to hear about what they are working on, for sure. Heck, it could be they are building their own Bethesda-sequel Engine using Unreal to allow a Skyrim-like PoE experience. Who knows?

 

Anyway, I think Obsidian could definitely survive another Crowdfunded IP that they would own. It would give them more stability, and allow them an IP that isn't as bog-standard fantasy as PoE is. Thus giving them some more creative potential.

[Quillon]

Game companies have their own IPs, and I doubt Obsidian would piss anyone off building their own post-apocalypse IP. Competition is the name of the game.

Still I think it would be too hard to side-step Wasteland's and especially Fallout's lore for Obs devs to differentiate their hypothetical post-apoc IP without making it bland as f*** or too unfamiliar.

 

Anyway, I think Obsidian could definitely survive another Crowdfunded IP that they would own. It would give them more stability, and allow them an IP that isn't as bog-standard fantasy as PoE is. Thus giving them some more creative potential.

Agreed.

[Ganrich]

That's definitely a fair critique of them trying Post-Apoc, and I don't disagree.

 

As an avid Arcanum fan, and realizing the IP may be forever stuck in limbo at Activision, combining the steampunk and Post-Apoc settings could give great diversity. Basically have a Shadowrun type reawakening of magic that causes technology to crash. It would take Arcanum's magic Vs tech angle and come at it from the other side. Instead of tech smothering magic as it develops you have magic causing the downfall of tech and civilization which reverts it back to steampunk levels of technology. It would flip the idea, and be much more fresh for a CRPG. I think I've mentioned this on these forums before, but I can't remember.

 

This should be turn-based, though. At least IMHO. Also, it should have an open class system like Arcanum/Fallout, but more competent combat. Definitely needs Arcanum's Traits and Backgrounds.

[ShadySands]

I hope Tyranny gets at least one expansion

[Sedrefilos]

Well I guess Tyranny will get a sequel for sure. The game had too much success for what it was and the ending signifies a new begining after all.

[Quillon]

That's definitely a fair critique of them trying Post-Apoc, and I don't disagree.

Although, now it hit me(cos I was in that link below); there is this cancelled Post Apoc. game of Troika's, maybe they already figured out what to make for a post apoc. game that isn't Fallout or WL.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/90706-hey-obsidian-how-about-a-sequel-to-arcanum/?p=1869064

 

 

And from an interview 12 years ago...

 

GB: Are there any specific ideas or features you always wanted to include in the Fallout franchise that you now have the resources to add in this new post-apoc title? Also, are there any ideas you're trying to stay away from in order to differentiate the game from the previous Fallout titles?

 

Leon: There are quite a few ideas we’ve tossed around over the years for this type of game (ever since we finished Arcanum, actually) that we’d like to try. They were never really Fallout specific, just things that we think would be great for this style of RPG. We haven’t made any design/conceptual decisions about how close or far away from the style of Fallout this game will end up being yet. The strange thing about this is that the feel/environment/style of Fallout is basically our conceptual vision, unedited straight from our gut instincts, so if we were to do anything similar to Fallout in those ways we’d have to be very self conscious to keep from seeming too much like Fallout.

 

 

http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/28286-troikas-unannounced-post-apocalyptic-rpg-interview/page-2.html

Edited January 23, 2017 by Quillon

[evilcat]

I support that own IP could be generally better, since nobody else will screw it, we could make any number of sequels or mobile apps if that floats our boat (Deadfire hype).

On the other side: any game from fallout will sell well, making big game for publisher is so much safer, and new IP which does not adress niche could not even get crowdfund money. (

Shadowrun, Divinity, Numerea, Pillars, Wasteland... all adressed some retro feels for old games (also Bioware went EA). Campaign for Fallout: New Wasteland could be much harder these days (

Edited January 23, 2017 by evilcat

[kanisatha]

Oh, I know Feargus said it. I worded that poorly. My bad.

 

Game companies have their own IPs, and I doubt Obsidian would piss anyone off building their own post-apocalypse IP. Competition is the name of the game.

 

I agree that Obsidian has been frugal about crowdfunding, and I love them for it. However, if they launched a second game through Kickstarter/Fig after they got PoE2 moving then I would be fine. They have proven themselves worthy of backing them again in my eyes. They aren't 3 kickstarters in with only one game to show for it like some other developers.

 

You are right though. Cain and Boyarsky are either getting something ready for crowdfunding or working for a publisher. They are using Unreal Engine, and that makes me believe it is more likely to be for Publisher for cost reasons. However, it may not be. I am eager to hear about what they are working on, for sure. Heck, it could be they are building their own Bethesda-sequel Engine using Unreal to allow a Skyrim-like PoE experience. Who knows?

 

Anyway, I think Obsidian could definitely survive another Crowdfunded IP that they would own. It would give them more stability, and allow them an IP that isn't as bog-standard fantasy as PoE is. Thus giving them some more creative potential.

Where would Obsidian's Pathfinder license fit into all of this? Both Obs and Paizo have said repeatedly they want to do a Pathfinder-based crpg, and I imagine given Pathfinder's large fan-base they could easily either crowdfund it or find a big-name publisher to bankroll it, so ...?

[Ethics Gradient]

Where would Obsidian's Pathfinder license fit into all of this? Both Obs and Paizo have said repeatedly they want to do a Pathfinder-based crpg, and I imagine given Pathfinder's large fan-base they could easily either crowdfund it or find a big-name publisher to bankroll it, so ...?

Did they actually say that they wanted to do a Pathfinder cRPG?

 

[speculation hat] What if the mystery Unreal Engine project is a spiritual successor to NWN2, but set in the Pathfinder universe? [/speculation hat]  

[Sedrefilos]

 

Where would Obsidian's Pathfinder license fit into all of this? Both Obs and Paizo have said repeatedly they want to do a Pathfinder-based crpg, and I imagine given Pathfinder's large fan-base they could easily either crowdfund it or find a big-name publisher to bankroll it, so ...?

Did they actually say that they wanted to do a Pathfinder cRPG?

 

[speculation hat] What if the mystery Unreal Engine project is a spiritual successor to NWN2, but set in the Pathfinder universe? [/speculation hat]  

 

Well, isn't Pillars a spiritual successor to NWN2 too? I mean NWN2 is the continuation of the party-based isometric DnD games IE games used to be. Why would they make a new game that is similar with Pillars but in different engine? Nah,I believe it'll be something else (though it might be in the Pathfinder universe). Maybe a turn-based more tactical game or an action rpg (1st person or 3rd person).

[Ganrich]

 

 

Where would Obsidian's Pathfinder license fit into all of this? Both Obs and Paizo have said repeatedly they want to do a Pathfinder-based crpg, and I imagine given Pathfinder's large fan-base they could easily either crowdfund it or find a big-name publisher to bankroll it, so ...?

Did they actually say that they wanted to do a Pathfinder cRPG?

 

[speculation hat] What if the mystery Unreal Engine project is a spiritual successor to NWN2, but set in the Pathfinder universe? [/speculation hat]

Well, isn't Pillars a spiritual successor to NWN2 too? I mean NWN2 is the continuation of the party-based isometric DnD games IE games used to be. Why would they make a new game that is similar with Pillars but in different engine? Nah,I believe it'll be something else (though it might be in the Pathfinder universe). Maybe a turn-based more tactical game or an action rpg (1st person or 3rd person).

Not really. When the PoE kickstarter began they mentioned BG 1 and 2, IWD 1 & 2, and PST. Isometric, pretenders backgrounds, and 6 man parties. The NWN games were more about the toolset than anything, and a PoE type of game wouldn't allow such a powerful toolset.

Edited January 23, 2017 by Ganrich

[Sedrefilos]

 

 

 

Where would Obsidian's Pathfinder license fit into all of this? Both Obs and Paizo have said repeatedly they want to do a Pathfinder-based crpg, and I imagine given Pathfinder's large fan-base they could easily either crowdfund it or find a big-name publisher to bankroll it, so ...?

Did they actually say that they wanted to do a Pathfinder cRPG?

 

[speculation hat] What if the mystery Unreal Engine project is a spiritual successor to NWN2, but set in the Pathfinder universe? [/speculation hat]

Well, isn't Pillars a spiritual successor to NWN2 too? I mean NWN2 is the continuation of the party-based isometric DnD games IE games used to be. Why would they make a new game that is similar with Pillars but in different engine? Nah,I believe it'll be something else (though it might be in the Pathfinder universe). Maybe a turn-based more tactical game or an action rpg (1st person or 3rd person).

Not really. When the PoE kickstarter began they mentioned BG 1 and 2, IWD 1 & 2, and PST. Isometric, pretenders backgrounds, and 6 man parties. The NWN games were more about the toilet than anything, and a PoE type of game wouldn't allow such a powerful toilet.

 

Well yea, they mentioned the old IE games but NWN are successors to those games and to be honest they don't have that much differences other than the engine. They feel mostly the same (especially NWN 2). So why make a fantasy party-based rpg when they already made 2 like those and they're going for their third? Not that I'd object, but we have plenty of those now; I'd like to see something new.

[Ganrich]

 

 

 

 

Where would Obsidian's Pathfinder license fit into all of this? Both Obs and Paizo have said repeatedly they want to do a Pathfinder-based crpg, and I imagine given Pathfinder's large fan-base they could easily either crowdfund it or find a big-name publisher to bankroll it, so ...?

Did they actually say that they wanted to do a Pathfinder cRPG?

 

[speculation hat] What if the mystery Unreal Engine project is a spiritual successor to NWN2, but set in the Pathfinder universe? [/speculation hat]

Well, isn't Pillars a spiritual successor to NWN2 too? I mean NWN2 is the continuation of the party-based isometric DnD games IE games used to be. Why would they make a new game that is similar with Pillars but in different engine? Nah,I believe it'll be something else (though it might be in the Pathfinder universe). Maybe a turn-based more tactical game or an action rpg (1st person or 3rd person).

Not really. When the PoE kickstarter began they mentioned BG 1 and 2, IWD 1 & 2, and PST. Isometric, pretenders backgrounds, and 6 man parties. The NWN games were more about the toilet than anything, and a PoE type of game wouldn't allow such a powerful toilet.

 

Well yea, they mentioned the old IE games but NWN are successors to those games and to be honest they don't have that much differences other than the engine. They feel mostly the same (especially NWN 2). So why make a fantasy party-based rpg when they already made 2 like those and they're going for their third? Not that I'd object, but we have plenty of those now; I'd like to see something new.

 

 

Don't get me wrong.  I enjoyed NWN, and adored MotB.  However, using the term successor here, IMHO, isn't entirely correct.  Or at least it implies (in my mind) that they brought nothing but improvements over the IE games.  Which IMHO they didn't.   In some respects they did.  I prefer 3.5 for character building, and the mods were great.  However, I always preferred 2nd edition for its spell variety. 

 

On the flip side, parties of 4 are really limited though.  Where with six you aren't stuck with Tank, DPS, heals, +1.  You can have much more interesting comps with 6.  They UIs in both NWN games are hot garbage IMHO.  The animations were clunkier, and that made the games feel clunkier.  The area design was much more compact, linear, and bordered on claustrophobic at times.  The set pieces were more drab and less interesting (late MotB is an exception here to an extent).  I could probably go on for a while if I think hard enough about it.  NWN1 looked worse than the IE games because 3d was so new at the time, but that could change so I will leave it at that. 

 

The only 2 things they really have in common with the IE games are set in the Forgotten Realms and RTwP combat.  You could argue that IWD2 used 3.0 like NWN1 did, and you wouldn't be wrong, but I would much rather play IWD2 right now that NWN1 or any of its expacs just based on how clunky NWN1 is (and how bad its RTwP system is for single character offline campaigns).   NWN1 had no companion control at all, and it sucked.  NWN2 had only 3 spots for companions.  NWN used 3.0 and NWN2 used 3.5, or close enough to those editions it doesn't matter.  They have less in common than they have in common. 

 

Now, all that said, "IF" Obsidian created a spin off of PoE (or a new IP entirely) that had a 3d tile based world, with a modding toolset, and launched a crowdfunding campaign for it... I would be all over it in a heartbeat.   However, not at the expense of tossing the 2d prerendered background style of game.   They both have their place.  PoE is what PoE is.  For now at least. 

 

PS -  Another point is a NWN successor would cost a lot more to make IMHO.  You would spend most of your money making the engine and toolset that you wouldn't have money to make the game. 

[evilcat]

Pathfinder could be good, since it may attract dnd/pathfinder fans, or people who heard something and want to check it out.

But i suppose there could be too much PoE clones, so that Pathfinder title need to be somehow different. Full 3D, turn base, or being more focused on co-op and player created content.

There is also option to make it more action based, but that could be heresy for pen-a-paper and there was Neverwinter MMO which wasnt fully succesful (with action combat).

Hard choice.

Not to mention im also looking forward to some more modern times game with either mystery or futuristic spies

Edited January 23, 2017 by evilcat

[Ganrich]

Pathfinder could be good, since it may attract dnd/pathfinder fans, or people who heard something and want to check it out.

But i suppose there could be too much PoE clones, so that Pathfinder title need to be somehow different. Full 3D, turn base, or being more focused on co-op and player created content.

There is also option to make it more action based, but that could be heresy for pen-a-paper and there was Neverwinter MMO which wasnt fully succesful (with action combat).

Hard choice.

I'm pretty sure Wizards of the Coast owns all digital rights to D20. A pathfinder game could be made, but it would have to use a rule set unlike its PnP source material (which is run on D20). That's why the card game is completely unique. I could be wrong, and I can't tell you where I read that about D20, but I don't think it's likely. I would be fine with a Pathfinder game along the NWN lines if it were possible, though.