Politics 2017

[aluminiumtrioxid]

OK, you're right.

 

Dammit I wanted to say something mean about somebody being top of his class but you're actually being reasonable about it. Points for good sportsmanship.

[Orogun01]

As usual, everyone forgets the Welsh

They will float to the top as usual, by shagging their sheep.

[Gorth]

I think Trump suffers from a small male reproduction organ complex and wants to compensate by building a wall larger than the one in China

[BruceVC]

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/mexican-president-cancels-meeting-with-trump-after-wall-order/ar-AAmhvNh?li=BBoPRmx

 

The Mexican PM has cancelled his trip to see Trump, you guys realize Mexico is the US third largest trading partner....you want to avoid some idiotic and unnecessary trade war that will hurt the US  economy 

[BruceVC]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/steve-bannon-donald-trump-war-media-transparency-liberal-elite-interview-new-york-times-a7548406.html

 

 See how populist Bannon is , he really loves to pander to that  " you cannot trust the media " group within the Trump support base 

[Pidesco]

[Keyrock]

[Rosbjerg]

So Keyrock, this isn't 'the beautiful women in politics thread'... Yet

[Keyrock]

So Keyrock, this isn't 'the beautiful women in politics thread'... Yet

It's but my small contribution toward Making Obsidian Forums Great Again 

[Malcador]

One of those cases where it's hard to see past the bloodline

[Keyrock]

The PotUS was a rather handsome chap himself in his younger days:

 

[Blarghagh]

You're kidding, right? He looks like if Dr. Frankenstein reanimated Elvis' stillborn twin.

[redneckdevil]

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/mexican-president-cancels-meeting-with-trump-after-wall-order/ar-AAmhvNh?li=BBoPRmx

 

The Mexican PM has cancelled his trip to see Trump, you guys realize Mexico is the US third largest trading partner....you want to avoid some idiotic and unnecessary trade war that will hurt the US economy

Is it though? Mexico is our 3rd biggest trading partner and they are in the hole of 60 billion towards us....by those numbers, it sounds like we are better to not trade towards them if we are in the hole and trying to get out. What's the point of trading if the other one is paying and instead putting it on a tab.

I also realize the irony since we are trillions in the whole with china. Maybe it's best of China did the same towards us. Mexico pays what they owe and USA pays what we owe to china and we stop borrowing. If u ain't got the money then don't spend. That goes towards us as well.

[BruceVC]

 

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/mexican-president-cancels-meeting-with-trump-after-wall-order/ar-AAmhvNh?li=BBoPRmx

 

The Mexican PM has cancelled his trip to see Trump, you guys realize Mexico is the US third largest trading partner....you want to avoid some idiotic and unnecessary trade war that will hurt the US economy

Is it though? Mexico is our 3rd biggest trading partner and they are in the hole of 60 billion towards us....by those numbers, it sounds like we are better to not trade towards them if we are in the hole and trying to get out. What's the point of trading if the other one is paying and instead putting it on a tab.

I also realize the irony since we are trillions in the whole with china. Maybe it's best of China did the same towards us. Mexico pays what they owe and USA pays what we owe to china and we stop borrowing. If u ain't got the money then don't spend. That goes towards us as well.

 

Im glad you asking these questions, there is a misunderstanding about this $ 60 billion apparent " debt " 

 

Its not debt, its the trade deficit. What this simply means is Mexico has sold the USA $ 60 Billion more goods than the USA  has sold to Mexico

 

This is very important and its fundamental to the argument., All countries export and import goods to each other  but some countries are able to export goods globally cheaper than other countries, like China

 

So this $60 billion trade deficit is not the fault of Mexico ....there are ways to increase the USA exports to Mexico but its unreasonable to expect Mexico to now be punished for simply tapping into the USA  consumer market

 

http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2016/jan/26/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-course-mexico-can-pay-wall-becau/

Edited January 27, 2017 by BruceVC

[Elerond]

BruceVC you need to realize that Mexico is evil because it sell stuff like food for USA markets that people in USA wants and what worse it sells it cheaper than companies making similar products in USA do. It is absolutely travesty. And cherry top on that, most companies in Mexico that import stuff in USA are owned by USA companies, meaning that big sunk of that money that Mexico gets on paper for selling stuff to USA actually comes back to USA and makes jobs in USA. So you should be glad that Trump will put stop for such perversity by increasing import tax for product coming from Mexico in order to build his wall, so that people in USA will need to pay more for those products they import from Mexico, like big sunk of their fruits and vegetables. So that it is actually people in USA that will pay their holy wall of eternal ego, first in more expensive products, then in getting less profit from their companies in Mexico and then in losing jobs provided by those profits from Mexico. But it all will be great and America will be great again even if plans to make it so are just stupid. 

[BruceVC]

BruceVC you need to realize that Mexico is evil because it sell stuff like food for USA markets that people in USA wants and what worse it sells it cheaper than companies making similar products in USA do. It is absolutely travesty. And cherry top on that, most companies in Mexico that import stuff in USA are owned by USA companies, meaning that big sunk of that money that Mexico gets on paper for selling stuff to USA actually comes back to USA and makes jobs in USA. So you should be glad that Trump will put stop for such perversity by increasing import tax for product coming from Mexico in order to build his wall, so that people in USA will need to pay more for those products they import from Mexico, like big sunk of their fruits and vegetables. So that it is actually people in USA that will pay their holy wall of eternal ego, first in more expensive products, then in getting less profit from their companies in Mexico and then in losing jobs provided by those profits from Mexico. But it all will be great and America will be great again even if plans to make it so are just stupid. 

As usual you make excellent points

 

I tell what I think might  be a necessary outcome to this whole Mexico contention ....because of the culture of " alternative facts " and 

" post-truth " rhetoric Trump sometimes uses its very difficult to convince people to agree to your point 

 

The only way we may get agreement about this type of event is for the USA to have this trade war with Mexico and then after 12 months or so the US  citizens can see for themselves what the outcome is ...will it be good for the USA or detrimental ? 

 

I firmly believe it will hurt the US  economy but then Trump will negotiate again  with Mexico and things can stabilize 

 

What amazes me is there are very educated and intelligent  people around Trump who must understand the importance of trade with Mexico yet no one says anything. I can only assume its because this is more about the campaign promise to " build the wall " so now Trump is going a more strategic path so his supporters dont think he is a hypocrite ?

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

 

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/mexican-president-cancels-meeting-with-trump-after-wall-order/ar-AAmhvNh?li=BBoPRmx

 

The Mexican PM has cancelled his trip to see Trump, you guys realize Mexico is the US third largest trading partner....you want to avoid some idiotic and unnecessary trade war that will hurt the US economy

Is it though? Mexico is our 3rd biggest trading partner and they are in the hole of 60 billion towards us....by those numbers, it sounds like we are better to not trade towards them if we are in the hole and trying to get out. What's the point of trading if the other one is paying and instead putting it on a tab.

I also realize the irony since we are trillions in the whole with china. Maybe it's best of China did the same towards us. Mexico pays what they owe and USA pays what we owe to china and we stop borrowing. If u ain't got the money then don't spend. That goes towards us as well.

 

Im glad you asking these questions, there is a misunderstanding about this $ 60 billion apparent " debt " 

 

Its not debt, its the trade deficit. What this simply means is Mexico has sold the USA $ 60 Billion more goods than the USA  has sold to Mexico

 

This is very important and its fundamental to the argument., All countries export and import goods to each other  but some countries are able to export goods globally cheaper than other countries, like China

 

So this $60 billion trade deficit is not the fault of Mexico ....there are ways to increase the USA exports to Mexico but its unreasonable to expect Mexico to now be punished for simply tapping into the USA  consumer market

 

http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2016/jan/26/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-course-mexico-can-pay-wall-becau/

 

The misunderstanding is all on your part. The trade deficit means our economy is being drained of $60 billion every year. How do we make up the difference? We borrow the money from China. The longer this continues, the worse for us. Of course this is not Mexico's fault, but a lot of things are their fault. I do believe in trying to be good neighbors though.

[Volourn]

Mexico goods (or goods coming from Mexico made by Amerikan companies) are cheaper because they're made cheaper largely because they don't have the same reasonably 'fair' labour costs (as well as other costs) that Amerikan companies  in Amerika have. It is also a big reason why the China-US trade balance is way off. Hard for a company in the US to compete when they pay x amount of dollars to an employee + benefits and China company pays less. Maybe if Mexico treated their people better this would solve two major issues the US has with them . a) more fair trade and b) there'd be less Mexicans who absolutely hate their country that they'd rather risk death to sneak into the US. All these people whining about hwo evil and destructive Trump is.. I don't see them trying to sneak into Mexico. L0L

[Wrath of Dagon]

Do unto others: http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=368084

 

Edit: Looks like CalExit might be on 2018 referendum: http://www.breitbart.com/california/2017/01/27/calexit-california-nation-may-begin-collecting-signatures-ballot/ That's a lot of signatures needed though. Hopefully Trump pisses them off enough by then that it will win. If it does succeed, I think it's only fair to have a nationwide referendum on it as well.

 

Edit2: Funny, US is much greener than Europe: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/01/26/china-and-india-reach-a-pack-a-day-cigarette-equivalent-in-air-pollution/ If you look at monthly data, it's not that bad, it's just current conditions.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Wrath of Dagon

[HoonDing]

Economics is not a zero-sum game. A trade deficit is not equivalent to "losing".

[Wrath of Dagon]

It's a loss to the economy for sure. It has some benefits, mostly lower prices, but that is because we're borrowing instead of earning. So it's just a question of how long the scam continues.

[Keyrock]

As per Rosbjerg's "request", I've decided to post some attractive politicians. First up, Yuri Fujikawa:

 

[Volourn]

Caliexit. I think its funny considering  the war that was faught to keep states from leaving before. L0L  This is why both sides are silly. Because, opinions would be switched if a red leaning state like Texas were to try to leave.

 

 

Yet, people like Obama actually believes that the entire world should bow to one single 'world wide gov't'. Even in Kanada we have multiple threats of provinces leaving. Mostly Quebec repeatedly but Western provinces at times too.

 

P.S. Read the California article. L0L Even more hilarious, it is being pushed by a Russian group supported by the Russian gov't. HAHAHAH

 

Also, people whine when Trump wants to leave or redo  things like NAFTA, TTP, or even the UN.... but since thinsg don't go their way they want to take their ball and leave the US. Don't people pay attention to this type of hypocrisy.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Volourn

[Elerond]

When your car industry buy cheap parts from Mexico and then uses them to build cars in US and sells them to Europe with bigger profit that they could do if they had bought those parts from US, they most likely decrease US's over all trade deficit compared to situation where they had made those part domestically because with cheaper part they can better compete in prices with European car manufactures. 

 

But in case of food products things become much difficult to tell. Even though cheaper food means that people have more money to put in services and products made in US, but it is very difficult to tell if that money helps US companies to make products and services that they can sell to foreign markets to help decrease trade deficit.

 

One thing that would help US to drop its trade deficit somewhat would be to decrease US dependency to oil, so that it would not need to buy it so much.  Like for example in 2015 US imported 4.71 million barrels per day (total 9.45 million barrels per day) more than it exports with average price of 52 dollars of barrel, meaning that US imported oil worth of 89.4 billion dollars more than it exported in 2015. So dropping amount of imported oil to that to half would decrease US from trade deficit more than getting to zero balance with Mexico.

[Gromnir]

fundamental misconceptions 'bout economics.  the US is a Service economy. trade deficit o' goods is expected and ordinary.  lack o' us savings, on the other hand, is a problem and makes issue o' trade deficit more salient.  

 

and owe money to china is an oft raised hobgoblin which is also revealing a basic misunderstanding.  treasury bills is the US debt china holds.  great.  fantastic. china is buying US T-Bills precisely 'cause they is such a safe and lucrative long term investment.  china's t-bill love affair is only troublesome if it stops.  also, american citizens hold far more US debt in the form o' t-bills than does china.  is why trump's suggestion o' simple defaulting on debt were universal mocked. 

 

HA! Good Fun!