How much PoE1 in the sequel?

[evilcat]

This is topic about idea of save export to PoE2.

It is continuation of similar discussion in some other topic (where it was offtopic), so some comments could be similar.

 

Should we continue story of Watcher?

There is an option to just keep playing with old character and party, however i dont think it is good idea. After WM Watcher 1 is one of most legendary hero in Dyrwood. Slayer of numerous dragons, most wanted monsters, some archmages and choosen of fallen godness. You cant top THAT.

There is also some fun in starting from level 1, pack of wolves is serious fight and player is happy with every magic weapon can grab hands on, not limited to best set.

Assuming other localization than Dyrwood there is also question of what happened with our Stronghold, NPC dont care much about our lordship, but old Watcher probably focused on governing the cottage (unless player sink all the gold into fancy gear and havent improved base a notch. Why would we even go somewhere else?

 

Should we play as some other character (companion)?

Eder fanclub is strong, but not as big. There are always personal preferences about who is your favorite Companion. Not all may enjoy Eder (heretics). Playing during Saint War sounds interesting. However i am not sure if you could fully kill Eothas so he may return anyway, also in future.

In game like that players like to make own character and give it best punk hairstyle engine can support.

 

Cameos?

Cameos sounds good, since it is fun to see old names back for old players, and new players probably dont care (so it is not harm for them). 

There is some limit, how far the new story could be locate and assume that some old NPC will get there and why. From that perspective Vailian Republics are close enought to see at least some.

Some npc are more likly to travel alot on special missions: Pellegina (related to Republics) or Hilvaris (travels alot, so does Kana).

Others are more home people (Sagani, Mother). Also we need to respect endings of PoE, if old Companion in canon died horribly keep him dead.

There is also option to have old companions, but probably not many, since players want new faces, and it feels strange if too many companions somehow traveled to new hero. Also some old companions may had other plans than being sideck to some local hero after some legendary adventures.

 

Save Export?

The issue is that if new story is somewhere else, the old one could not matter that much. Fate of Rodrick dosnt matter outside Dyrwood.

What could matter: Trade deal, who owns Defiance Bay, general fate of Dyrwood (angry gods and stuff), position of Watcher and Cuad Nua(assuming close enought), in case of cameos who died, situacion in Durgan Battery (again localization matters).

It is something, but not much, and many of these looks more like news from far far away, tot something could change new story.

This may be good since that makes less work for multi version of new story and applying save export. On the other hand the difference could be so cosmetic it is not even worth it.

 

I may have fortgoten about something, but maybe it will show up anyway.

Have a better new year, full of joe and PoE2 hype.

Edited December 29, 2016 by evilcat

[JerekKruger]

My thoughts:

 

Should we continue story of Watcher?

No, for very much the same reasons you give: the Watcher has kinda done it all at this point. I know some people around here would like to see a proper epic level campaign, but personally I'd much prefer such a campaign be handled in the way Throne of Bhall was i.e. a DLC campaign that comes after a main campaign. There's also the question of whether the Watcher would abandon Caed Nua, given his link to it. That said, I imagine Obsidian would do an excellent job of continuing the Watcher's story, it's just not my preferred focus for the sequel.

 

Should we play as some other character?

If you mean something like playing Edér then no. There are examples of good CRPGs where the player doesn't get to handcraft their own PC, but I feel that given its heritage, this isn't something PoE2 should do. That said, having some (long) quests where an NPC companion takes the lead (perhaps even having their stats and skills be used for dialogue options) could be a fun change of pace and a good way of fleshing out companions (something which PoE wasn't so good at in many cases).

 

Cameos?

Definitely, though they shouldn't be forced and they should fit with the various endings of PoE (in particular, if a companion was sacrificed they shouldn't appear) and the companions personalities (Sagani is likely to want to return to her family, and I can't see Durance leaving the Dyrwood myself). I'd even be pretty keen to have one or two PoE companions actually join the new PC, though once again this shouldn't go too far as having new companions is always fun.

 

Save Export?

Yes, but I'd much prefer Obsidian to flesh out well a canonical story than have several stories which are not so well done. Also if all that the imported save will do is have a few NPCs say a few throw away lines then I'm not bothered either way. However, a few well done touches that significantly change the world/story would be very welcome so long as they don't overstretch Obsidian's resources.

[Sedrefilos]

I believe the devs have already made their minds about how the story in Pillars 2 goes. Maybe we should wait for the reveal and add our ideas after, based on what it's gonna be.

[Baramos]

I wonder when we'll be getting the reveal. The recent survey on the "Collectors edition" makes me think it'll be coming soon.

 

As for the questions:

 

Should we continue story of Watcher?

 

I'd rather have a new character to play as. The Watcher's story felt "done" to me at the end of the game.

 

Should we play as some other character (companion)?

 

This would be great for an expansion pack or DLC but the thing I love about Pillars is being able to create your own character.

 

Cameos?

 

I'd like this a lot.

 

Save Export?

 

Eh it'd be interesting but I can't see the devs making every possible ending in the first game affecting too much in the sequel. Especially since it'll be taking place somewhere new with a (possibly) new character.

 

 

[JerekKruger]

I believe the devs have already made their minds about how the story in Pillars 2 goes. Maybe we should wait for the reveal and add our ideas after, based on what it's gonna be.

 

Well it's mostly just fun to discuss this sort of thing. As you say, Obsidian have probably already decided a lot of this stuff and are working on creating it already.

[PIP-Clownboy]

 

There is also some fun in starting from level 1, pack of wolves is serious fight 

 

Disagree with the level 1 being fun. You have 1-2 abilities/spells, positioning isn't a factor. It's boring to me... there is a reason Dungeon-Be-Gone is so popular. Also disagree with that particular fight being series. Once you know what you're doing it's a cake walk even on POTD. You should only really have trouble if you're new to game and it's systems.

 

For the sequel, I want it handled just as it was with SOA BG2 where I can jump right into the meat of my character build. Especially for me, I hated taking Wizards before level 9 and Barbs (my favorite class) get all their cool **** like HoF and Leap later on. 

Edited December 30, 2016 by PIP-Clownboy

[Tigranes]

Dungeon Be Gone isn't popular because it alleviates low-level combat (it hardly does in BG1 or BG2), the point is that opening tutorial areas are often boring as crapola. 

 

Higher levels are usually handled poorly by most RPGs / RPG systems, so I'm all for going from level 1, 3, 5, whatever. Developers get boxed into an impossible situation where people want to level up every couple of hours so you have to gain like 15 or 20 levels in a game, and then a lot of people want to pick up where they left off in a sequel, etc... but I never want to be level 30 or 40. 

 

SOA solution is also OK, but they'll have to do some serious overhauling. As things stand the character system gets saturated from level 9 onwards. Between levels 4-8 or so you're still at a stage where your character is clearly defined but you haven't maxed out things or taken everything you'd want to; in POE1 around level 9/10 you've usually taken everything that defines your character and you start to just get icing on the cake, or even redundant stuff you don't need because the system doesn't have much else to offer you.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Tigranes

[Bill Gates' Son]

Between levels 4-8 or so you're still at a stage where your character is clearly defined but you haven't maxed out things or taken everything you'd want to; in POE1 around level 9/10 you've usually taken everything that defines your character and you start to just get icing on the cake, or even redundant stuff you don't need because the system doesn't have much else to offer you.

 

Heh, speak for yourself.   Some of my characters never feel complete even at level 16 because there are still so many talents I want to take for them.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Bill Gates' Son

[Quillon]

Should we continue story of Watcher?

 

Yes(or next incarnation of the same watcher) and this time we should take advantage of being a watcher instead of treating it as an affliction, it should be better integrated in gameplay/dialogue instead of just reading backer stories.

 

Should we play as some other character?

 

No and we can't. This will be a direct sequel and if we play f.i. Eder, then there won't be any race, gender, class, backstory etc choices. Besides I don't prefer pre-defined characters in RPGs.

 

Cameos?

 

Yes.

 

Save Import?

 

Said it many times already but yeah, there should be as much of the choices we made integrated as possible. Should be even better if we can make PoE 1 choices in character creation just like "conquest" in Tyranny's CC.

[JO'Geran]

Should we continue the story of the Watcher?

Given the nature of PoE, I don't think it would make much sense to be honest.

 

The Watcher, by the end of the game is wielding artifacts that once belonged to The Gods, and is able to shape the fate of entire nations. To put someone of there power in a new adventure, doesn't seem very sensical.

 

Plus 

 

 

Since the Watcher already knows that the Gods are made up, and that his affliction, nor any other affliction has nothing to do with them, it would take away a huge amount of spectacle to put the player in the world with all that pre-existing knowledge

 

 

 

If you are talking about playing a watcher in generally, then I'm not so sure. On the one hand being a Watcher gives you plenty of opportunities to interact with the world in interesting ways, but on the other I've never been a fan of reusing the same type of backstory just for the sake of convinience.

Should we play as some other character

No. RPGs should let you customise and adapt your character, or at least let you interpret a character.

 

One of the things that made PoE one of the greatest RPGs of this decade was the amount of opportunities it gave you to flesh out a character. You are constantly asked "How do you feel about this?" or "Tell me this about your backstory", and to be frank if you have a brilliant RPG, I don't really see the point in suddenly turning the series around, and making a decision that you are unsure it will excel at.

Cameos

Seems like it most companions have such vastly different endings it would be difficult to implement them all

Save Import

Like the guy above me said, perhaps there could be a "Conquest" section recapping your actions in PoE 1.

[jsaving]

First priority - great story.

Second priority - 6-person real-time-with-pause class-based system with friendly fire and NPC quests. 

 

On whether we should continue as the Watcher in PoE2 (and be able to import saved games from PoE1) - Shouldn't this depend on how PoE2's story develops rather than being pre-determined in advance of the design/development process?  If the team comes up with a great idea for a Shadows of Amn type sequel, then by all means, keep the Watcher as PC and let us import PoE saved games into PoE2.  On the other hand, if the Watcher-specific material would be a distraction in the sequel, then jettison the Watcher and abandon the idea of letting us import PoE saved games into PoE2.  As long as PoE2's story lives up to the high bar set by PoE, I'd be happy with either scenario.

[Karkarov]

Should we continue story of Watcher?
I would prefer not because they are sort of a faceless cypher with very little personality or real agency in their own game.  That said I won't be upset if Obsidian goes this route.

 

Should we play as some other character (companion)?

No, the game should either be the same watcher character or someone totally new.  This is a given, no idea why anyone thinks the main character being a Eternity 1 companion is a good idea, or even in the realm of possibility.

 

Cameos?

Of course there should be some cameo's, maybe even some recurring companions who can still be... companions.

 

Save Export?
Only if Obsidian thinks it is feasible without bloating the budget or dev time.  If we really really really have to do this I would vastly prefer if they do it Tyranny style and just give you lead in questions to decide important things about the first game.
 

Edited January 1, 2017 by Karkarov

[Quillon]

Isn't this(from codex interview) basically answering first & second question?

 

If you're continuing with the Watcher elements for Pillars 2, do you have ideas on how to improve that?

(laughs) Yeah, can't really talk about that.

[JerekKruger]

Not sure how. The question is sufficiently vague that it could be interpreted in more than one way ("will the Watcher be returning?" "will the story of the Watcher impact on the sequel?" "will the sequel involve a watcher or watchers?" etc.) and even if you assume it means "will the Watcher be returning?", Josh's answer tells us nothing.

[Quillon]

Yeah.

 

Well, usually if something's right, most devs don't talk about it but if its wrong, they say no more easily to prevent false expectations and they probably aren't limited to not say what won't be in a game. But nvm, its guesswork atm.

[Elric Galad]

Should we continue story of Watcher?

 

Yes(or next incarnation of the same watcher) and this time we should take advantage of being a watcher instead of treating it as an affliction, it should be better integrated in gameplay/dialogue instead of just reading backer stories.

 

[...]

 

Said it many times already but yeah, there should be as much of the choices we made integrated as possible. Should be even better if we can make PoE 1 choices in character creation just like "conquest" in Tyranny's CC.

 

Two great ideas here.

 

As I was reading backer's story, it remembered me of Planescape where there was such dialogues with Dead people, Memory stones or your own memory.

I was a bit disappointed because it was not that much used in the gameplay.

 

 

I like the idea of a Tyranny Conquest introduction replacing a Save Import.

That is basically the only good way to make Imported Game having an impact that you can't emulate with a new character (leading to missed content for new players).  

[JerekKruger]

I really like the idea of the main character being the next incarnation of the Watcher, but I can imagine it annoying a lot of players since, if companions like Edér are going to make a return, it will pretty much require that the current Watcher is killed off "before their time".

 

Personally what I'd love to see is this: we start a new character whose soul contains a shard of Eothas's, which was shattered after his "accident" at Halgot Citadel. What we choose to do with this shard will, of course, be up to us, but options might include trying to reconstruct Eothas or perhaps trying to become a God ourselves. Having just written that, I realise it reads a little like the plot of Baldur's Gate, but I still kinda like it. It also gives the perfect reason to bring back everyone's favourite Edér!

 

As for a conquest introduction, if PoE2 does have save importing then I think it really should also have a conquest style introduction as well, for precisely the reason Elric says.

[Shadenuat]

I think Obsidian should pull a MoTB, but without epic levels, and make PoE2 in a completely new and weird place (Living Lands, Republics, whatever), with starting level 1, and new story and characters, with old characters being only as legends, rumours, cameos.

[Gromnir]

moot

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Quillon]

I think Obsidian should pull a MoTB, but without epic levels, and make PoE2 in a completely new and weird place (Living Lands, Republics, whatever), with starting level 1, and new story and characters, with old characters being only as legends, rumours, cameos.

 

Only if its couple hundred years later with tech progressed accordingly; If we're gonna have a ship, should better be a brig 

[Quillon]

I like the idea of a Tyranny Conquest introduction replacing a Save Import.

That is basically the only good way to make Imported Game having an impact that you can't emulate with a new character (leading to missed content for new players).

Thought about it a bit more, this time with my brain :D There are too many choices in a 60-100 hours rpg where as in Tyranny you make IIRC 9 or so high level choices before heading into the game. Whether if any of the PoE companions are alive or dead choices alone equal to 11. And in "Conquest-style" there should also be some context for every choice... think about the famous PoE loredump all over again, a new playa would need dat lore to make those choices. Well, waaaaaAAAaaaaay too much work/imposibru.

[evilcat]

In Dev Stream Commentary P4 Josh confirmed save export from poe1 to poe2, but not in punitive way (optional).

[Elric Galad]

 

I like the idea of a Tyranny Conquest introduction replacing a Save Import.

That is basically the only good way to make Imported Game having an impact that you can't emulate with a new character (leading to missed content for new players).

Thought about it a bit more, this time with my brain :D There are too many choices in a 60-100 hours rpg where as in Tyranny you make IIRC 9 or so high level choices before heading into the game. Whether if any of the PoE companions are alive or dead choices alone equal to 11. And in "Conquest-style" there should also be some context for every choice... think about the famous PoE loredump all over again, a new playa would need dat lore to make those choices. Well, waaaaaAAAaaaaay too much work/imposibru.

You don't have to make all choices relevant.

There are a limited number of choices that has an impact about ending slides.

 

But I agree it can be difficult to implement.

[White Phoenix]

My thoughts: 

 

Should we continue story of Watcher?

 

Yes, I like playing the same character in continuations. Although story of the Watcher seems to be finished I think they are still in awakened state but quiet now and see lost souls and so on. There is potential for new story not to say about our Watcher knowing whole truth about gods (new character cannot know this), so I find it to be main reason to use them again.  I have no problem with 16th level - high level campaigns are the best for my taste. Although many people complain about it maybe Obsidian would cut some levels in that case. Or make starting from 12th or 9/10th level.

 

Should we play as some other character (companion?)

 

No, it kills freedom in making our own hero from scratch. DLC would be awesome to expand story of the companion like Leliana's song from DAO. I have mixed feeling with playing non-companion character. It depends who they are - NPC or completely new hero. I would like to see another Pillars saga with new character. Let's continue Watcher's story with BG2 formula.

 

Cameos?

 

Of course! Remember BG2? They could give you some quests not only talk with you. Old friends are welcomed.

 

Save Export

 

Would like to see our choices in sequel. I think save export should include companions endings, god choice, faction in Defiance Bay, side quest with Raedric and Master Below. Not sure if White March is canonical because it was only expansion but still important for me. I think lesser side quest won't be included. Save export makes more sense if Watcher would return for sequel. With totally new character I dont' think it is so needed unless we get some reincarnation stuff.

Edited January 20, 2017 by White Phoenix