Politics 2016

[Malcador]

US has expelled 35 Russian diplomats, closed two spy sites and sanctioned the FSB and GRU- but not the SVR, which is slightly odd- plus miscellaneous for election tampering and harassment of US diplomats in Russia (which supposedly includes closing, uh, 25 (!) CIA stations english language facilities inside Russia); via executive order.

Kind of ho hum. Not as if Russia is going to respond other than just booting out US officials in an equal number.

[Zoraptor]

Yep, wouldn't be overly surprised if there's only some 'we are outraged!!!' language and they don't even expel anyone to be honest. Any significant retaliation makes it a lot harder for Trump to reverse US actions later.

 

"Obama is sure trying to start a war with Russia and then the Dems will try to blame Trump for it and he'll have to clean up their mess. L0L"

 

He's just trying to make things difficult for Trump in general via Executive Orders and trying to set up a framework to protect his EO's from being rescinded. There's no way this would start even a metaphorical war (that's already ongoing) and has almost no practical effects unless people actually believe that the FSB and GRU are operating openly in the US. It doesn't even target the SVR- actual civilian rather than military Russian external intelligence so they can just redesignate everyone into that organisation and carry on as usual. Pure posturing and unless they can produce some actual evidence- not vials of white powder and schema of WMD mobile labs style- of hacking it's also primarily domestic politics.

 

Heh, even Obama said that Wikileaks had the DNC stuff from another source so it's solely down to John 'p@ssw0rd' Podesta's email getting hacked as influence.

 

Obama Says He Would Have Won A Third Term Had He Been Able To Run

 

 

Well, yeah. Would have been interesting watching the Rs try to filibuster Supreme Court nominations for 4 entire years.

[Guard Dog]

OK, I'm sick of hearing how the goddamed Russians hacked the election. They didn't. They hacked the DNC. The DNC is not the United States. It is not part of the US government. It does not administrate or work with election in any way aside from trying to convince people to vote Democrat.  The DNC is a PRIVATE entity. Hacking their server is no more an attack on the US than when my credit card number was stolen. And all they did was release the internal e-mails. And you know what I haven't heard once? A single person suggest that is the members of the DNC & the Clinton campaign were not behaving like the pack of snotty small minded elitists they are the release of their e-mails would not have made them look bad. They are all up in arms over the revelation that the DNC, Clinton Campaign and the media were colluding to damage the Sanders campaign. But they really WERE doing that. 

 

Had they conducted themselves in a professional manner there would have been nothing to show. There is no company I have ever worked for where such unprofessional and disrespectful e-mails conduct would not have resulted in a stern talking to if not a termination. For the very reason that the written word lasts forever and can get away from you. The best way to have no fear of skeletons in the closet is to not put them in there!

[redneckdevil]

It's so damn sad seeing them carrying on this farse. Obamas ****ing up all types of **** trying to make it hard as **** for Trump. Trump's open support of Israel I believe has sidestepped that fiasco and with trump wanting friendly terms with Russia is I think sidestepping that one as well I hope. The good thing is with Trump open support of each country, his actions are basically Obama not the USA flipping the bird to them. As crazy as it sounds, Trump being crazy during the election has actually been very positive in helping the USA stay on the positive side with both scenarios.....2016 needs to put down the needle

[Malcador]

So the Kenyan is really going for being the president that let Russians decide US election? That is the legacy he is desperate to leave behind?

Weird!

One of those eye of the beholder things, which these days is just eye of the loudest garbage.

[Hurlshort]

Obama Says He Would Have Won A Third Term Had He Been Able To Run

 

 

 

Considering the turnout for the two candidates versus what he pulled in 2012, I'm inclined to agree.  

 

 

edit: And of course thankful that we have term limits.  

Edited December 30, 2016 by Hurlshot

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Well it doesn't matter regardless of legality because he didn't run, in the same way it doesn't matter that Hillary would have won if the US elected by popular vote or that Bernie would have beat Trump by winning working-class votes in swing states or that the state is cancer and democratic confederalism is better. Because that isn't reality and reality is we've got Trump as president-elect(with the "-elect" dropping in less than a month) and a system designed to protect the interests of the ruling class.

Edited December 30, 2016 by KaineParker

[Orogun01]

Well it doesn't matter regardless of legality because he didn't run, in the same way it doesn't matter that Hillary would have won if the US elected by popular vote or that Bernie would have beat Trump by winning working-class votes in swing states or that the state is cancer and democratic confederalism is better. Because that isn't reality and reality is we've got Trump as president-elect(with the "-elect" dropping in less than a month) and a system designed to protect the interests of the ruling class.

Liberal salt aside, you do realize that the system is set up that way so that the States can get better representation.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

Well it doesn't matter regardless of legality because he didn't run, in the same way it doesn't matter that Hillary would have won if the US elected by popular vote or that Bernie would have beat Trump by winning working-class votes in swing states or that the state is cancer and democratic confederalism is better. Because that isn't reality and reality is we've got Trump as president-elect(with the "-elect" dropping in less than a month) and a system designed to protect the interests of the ruling class.

Liberal salt aside, you do realize that the system is set up that way so that the States can get better representation.

 

I have no idea what any of that has to do with what I wrote. Did a gentleman from Israel bully you into drinking again?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I don't understand the problem with the system.

Two private entities hold a duopoly on elected officials. Neither candidate would change this because they benefit from this. The results of this are lawmakers and executives being directly beholden to private interests and the judicial system being indirectly beholden. Which means the citizen votes for an interchangeable stooge and no real choice exists.

[213374U]

They hacked the DNC. [...] And all they did was release the internal e-mails.

 

Did they?

[redneckdevil]

From what I hear, it was actually someone in the DNC who leaked the emails because of being u happy with the party or something.

One thing I've noticed with the news about Russo is that no evidence has been brought up and they are establishing a story based on stretching very very circumstantial evidence so far to fit their story without anything to back it up.

 

 

We really really need to bring back suing the news for false information and lying. That or take away their govt benefits.

 

Sad that Obamas final moments are filled with all this very blatant bull**** he and the media are doing.

[Malcador]

I don't understand the problem with the system. Both candidates knew how the system works. It's not like Crooked Hillary was going for popular vote and they pulled electoral college at the last minute.

It's funny that people say if Obama/Obama/Sanders would run or if it was popular vote or if Hillary would change this or that then Trump would loose.

It's stupid because it only changes one side and assumes Trump campaign would stay the same. And that's a wrong assumption, Trump would win regardless, because he would adjust his campaign accordingly.

This only proves that Clinton, despite 30 years of experience, don't understand how US works.

Sanders or Obama would have a lot of positive incentives to vote for them. So Trump's magical adjustments might not do it.

[Guard Dog]

 

They hacked the DNC. [...] And all they did was release the internal e-mails.

 

Did they?

 

You're right! Even THAT is not an established fact. There is evidence the whole thing was leaked to wikileaks by a DNC staffer who was either sympathetic to Sanders or just angry at the unethical behavior.  In other news a DNC staffer was recently murdered in a very suspicious way. Or maybe A Russian did it but not THE Russians. Or maybe Putin did the whole thing himself sipping vodka and wearing boxers in the small hours of the morning while fondling himself to Ivanka Trump pics. 

 

Who revealed the e-mails matters so much less that WHAT the e-mails revealed. They revealed a pack of arrogant, unprofessional, a thoroughly despicable people whose self certitude in their determination to rule over the inferiors reminds me of the long discarded Divine right of Kings.

[Malcador]

Who revealed the e-mails matters so much less that WHAT the e-mails revealed. They revealed a pack of arrogant, unprofessional, a thoroughly despicable people whose self certitude in their determination to rule over the inferiors reminds me of the long discarded Divine right of Kings.

There's a dramatic interpretation if I ever saw any. Found majority of those emails to be the usual corporate level of boring.

[Guard Dog]

 

Who revealed the e-mails matters so much less that WHAT the e-mails revealed. They revealed a pack of arrogant, unprofessional, a thoroughly despicable people whose self certitude in their determination to rule over the inferiors reminds me of the long discarded Divine right of Kings.

There's a dramatic interpretation if I ever saw any. Found majority of those emails to be the usual corporate level of boring.

 

Yeah that was a little melodramatic. Maybe more than a little. It's been that kind of morning. But some of those I found insufferable. Like the ones referring to Bill Richardson come to mind. 

[Volourn]

I couls see Obama winning simply because there are a lot of racist blacks  and sexist black men who would vote for him simply because he is a black man who looks like them. The election results show that BIGLY.

 

That said, I agree that trying to guess what would happen is silly because  the strategies espicially by Trump's team would be different so assuming a certain alternate reality result is silly. Plus, if anything, this election taught us that making grand proclaimations that so and so 'has no chance' is beyond ridiculous and is extremely moronic.

[213374U]

You're right! Even THAT is not an established fact. There is evidence the whole thing was leaked to wikileaks by a DNC staffer who was either sympathetic to Sanders or just angry at the unethical behavior.  In other news a DNC staffer was recently murdered in a very suspicious way. Or maybe A Russian did it but not THE Russians. Or maybe Putin did the whole thing himself sipping vodka and wearing boxers in the small hours of the morning while fondling himself to Ivanka Trump pics. 

 

Who revealed the e-mails matters so much less that WHAT the e-mails revealed. They revealed a pack of arrogant, unprofessional, a thoroughly despicable people whose self certitude in their determination to rule over the inferiors reminds me of the long discarded Divine right of Kings.

I mean, I wouldn't put it past the Russians to pull something like that, even if their MO has historically been more gleaning stuff from informants through seduction, blackmail and plain old bribes (e.g. Anna Chapman). If it was indeed a Russian op though, it's probably one of the most spectacular successes of intelligence in history -- which is for me another reason to be skeptical about it. It's just that the "evidence" presented would make even Bibi blush. And at this point, if anyone takes reporting by the likes of WPost and NYT citing "anonymous sources" and "classified reports" at face value, I have a bridge to sell them...

 

And it's clearly Ivanka who fondles herself to Putin-riding-a-bear pics, not the other way around. Or so I read, in a WPost op-ed...

 

 

There's a dramatic interpretation if I ever saw any. Found majority of those emails to be the usual corporate level of boring.

 

I don't know what corporation you work at, but I'm thinking that it'd be pretty damn hard to misconstrue any of the work emails I've ever sent or received as innuendo and code words for pedophilia and child porn. Guess I'm even more boring at work than here.

[Malcador]

 

 

I don't understand the problem with the system. Both candidates knew how the system works. It's not like Crooked Hillary was going for popular vote and they pulled electoral college at the last minute.

It's funny that people say if Obama/Obama/Sanders would run or if it was popular vote or if Hillary would change this or that then Trump would loose.

It's stupid because it only changes one side and assumes Trump campaign would stay the same. And that's a wrong assumption, Trump would win regardless, because he would adjust his campaign accordingly.

This only proves that Clinton, despite 30 years of experience, don't understand how US works.

Sanders or Obama would have a lot of positive incentives to vote for them. So Trump's magical adjustments might not do it.

Oh and you have those info from the same sources that claimed Crooked Hillary is a sure win?

Claiming that Trump would win is more valid since he, you know, DID win. Instead of liberals wishful thinking.

So a hypothetical match up would be the same based on an existing result? Interesting.

 

But Sanders had enthusiastic supporters and so did Obama, and no negative incentive like they did for Clinton vs Trump.

[Malcador]

 

I don't know what corporation you work at, but I'm thinking that it'd be pretty damn hard to misconstrue any of the work emails I've ever sent or received as innuendo and code words for pedophilia and child porn. Guess I'm even more boring at work than here.

Must have missed those but a lot of the ones people were on about here seemed kind of tame. Certainly nothing to get apoplectic about (was word of the day).

[redneckdevil]

I do have a question, what do we the USA have against Russia? Russia has always been viewed as the bad guy here growing up, but that was due to **** that happened yearssssss ago.

So besides the democrates putting the blame on Russia instead of owning up to their **** ups, why are the republicans and a good bit against Russia? Why is it so bad for us to be on friendly terms, dare say allies?

[licketysplit]

I do have a question, what do we the USA have against Russia? Russia has always been viewed as the bad guy here growing up, but that was due to **** that happened yearssssss ago.

So besides the democrates putting the blame on Russia instead of owning up to their **** ups, why are the republicans and a good bit against Russia? Why is it so bad for us to be on friendly terms, dare say allies?

 

Putin is the issue. The way he rose to power, his methods, his lack of ethics and manipulation. But I happen to think cuddling up to Islam and soft marxism like the far left does is more dangerous. I don't know where the democrats find moral high ground here while they take money from Saudi despots and actively defend a destructive religious ideology.  

[Volourn]

Of course Dems hate Russia and love Saudi Arabia. Russians are white. Saudis are  not. 'Nough said.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Volourn

[Zoraptor]

The Russian response is in and it's... no expulsions and US diplomats have been invited to the Kremlin's New Year's Celebrations. Probably the best gauged response possible in the circumstances as it's both a pointed insult to Obama and allows Trump some room to remove or end run the sanctions should he wish to.

 

 

I do have a question, what do we the USA have against Russia? Russia has always been viewed as the bad guy here growing up, but that was due to **** that happened yearssssss ago.
So besides the democrates putting the blame on Russia instead of owning up to their **** ups, why are the republicans and a good bit against Russia? Why is it so bad for us to be on friendly terms, dare say allies?

 

Putin is the issue. The way he rose to power, his methods, his lack of ethics and manipulation. But I happen to think cuddling up to Islam and soft marxism like the far left does is more dangerous. I don't know where the democrats find moral high ground here while they take money from Saudi despots and actively defend a destructive religious ideology.  

 

 

Putin rose to power from basically nowhere by being appointed as VP by Yeltsin, supposedly as he guaranteed Yeltsin's family would not be done for their massive embezzlement. That's about it, really- Yeltsin did a great job utterly ruining the prospects of a western style (meh, authoritarian 'market economy' driven kleptocracy, decide for yourself whether that's 'western style') 'liberal' party winning for decades by being utterly incompetent, bankrupting the country and dropping the most people into poverty of anyone in the 20th century. There's no need for suppression as nobody will vote for the 'liberal' parties, suppression comes about because most of the 'liberal' parties are- definitively- supported in massive scale by outside states and individuals in the same style as the various Colour revolutions were. And that leaves Zyuganov's ossified Commies and Zhirinovsky's comical fascists as alternatives. Yeltsin's incompetence, and the gleeful high fiving of the west while it happened set the scene for the current revanchism.

 

It's also telling that for all the negatives Putin has fewer journalists and political opponents have died under suspicious or criminal circumstances in his 16 years than in Yeltsin's 8 (and more died in a 3 month period (!) in Ukraine last year than either with barely a murmur), and Yeltsin's 1996 victory was both internally dodgy- estimates are that Yeltsin outspent the legal limit by a minimum 15000, yes, 15000% minimum and there was statistically improbably results where districts suddenly voted Yeltsin that didn't in the 1st round- and influenced overtly by the US government to favour Yeltsin. Everyone else may have ignored or forgotten that, or choose to interpret it as the west 'helping' Russia or whatever, but you can guarantee Putin hasn't, and has a more... realistic interpretation of where that western 'help' was leading.

 

Putin's the issue because he's competent, not subject to influence in the same way Yeltsin was and thus is frequently an opponent. That's about it, really. In terms of brutal suppression and the like he's miles behind multiple western allies who McCain and like would never dream of criticising (Saudi especially).

[Malcador]

Of course Dems hate Russia and love Saudi Arabia. Russians are white. Saudis are not. 'Nough said.

Republicans don't seem to be fans of Russia (well or brown people either ). But Saudi is useful to them in some way in the game, maybe less going forward.