Fidel Castro Dead at 90

[Gorgon]

They certainly helped create the circumstances.

[BruceVC]

The British Empire begat Robert Mugabe and Idi Amin. In a sense Castro is your creation.  

No thats untrue as well

 

I know the history of Africa since the British and French decided  to give independence to all their  colonies in 1957, Ghana independance ,   till now very well and Im always updating and refreshing my views as some things change due to those radio talk shows  . Both of those leaders made terrible choices long after coming to power. I promise you, I can go into more detail if you interested ?

Edited November 27, 2016 by BruceVC

[Gorgon]

One wouldn't have happened without the other. I make no excuses for dictators, just saying that the colonial experience is not just Robert Mugabe's bad excuse for everything. It is also the determining factor in the development of most African countries, as you well know. 

[Orogun01]

In regards to the whole "The US does bad things, too" response when criticizing Castro.  The big difference I see is that US Presidents only have 4-8 years to do messed up things.  Congress only has 2-6 years to do messed up things.  Then the people get to vote to remove them, and despite what the media likes to cling to, those elections are remarkably fraud free.  So you have a shared responsibility for the terrible things that the government does, and they face constant criticism while doing it.

 

Castro wielded absolute power and put himself above criticism.  That's an incredibly dangerous position for anyone to be in.  

Actually he was constantly re-elected in the same manner that despots always are, and if it wasn't for Trump's victory I would have said it was the same as the US.

[BruceVC]

One wouldn't have happened without the other. I make no excuses for dictators, just saying that the colonial experience is not just Robert Mugabe's bad excuse for everything. It is also the determining factor in the development of most African countries, as you well know. 

Yes you right in certain ways because we cannot ignore the reality that the Colonialists, which are my ancestors  as you know, did rule for 300 years or so and  you will find certain flaws and dysfunctions in the first African leaders which is a contributing factor to the fact that every single African country the French and British gave back was bankrupt by the 1980's ...except for Botswana 

 

Take a quick look at this map and see how many countries that was and notice the date they got there independence 

 

https://rachelstrohm.com/2014/02/01/african-colonization-independence/

 

But you have made me think  about something  you may find interesting, I think you have some deep SJ values which I always think is  a  good thing. You probably more critical than I am about things like colonialism 

 

Have I ever told you about the true nature of Apartheid? It made me a better person ....but its a grim story but real and meaningful. Let me know if you want to know ?

[Volourn]

"Volo I would appreciate if you didn't speculate about what Cubans are, lest of all while i'm around. Reducing an entire group of people to two views just to illustrate a point might be how you get your argument across but I won't stand for such sophistry, specially when its my people you're talking about."

 

Don't pull that whiny SJW Nazi crap on me. I'lkl give my views based on my observations what 'your people' have said and done. Yopu won't stand what?  Like you've never  given your views on what others have stated were their beliefs? Like you've never made a crack about other groups based on your observations? Grow up, buckle up, and deal with others' thoughts.

 

Bottom line, NOTHING I said was false.  Cuba is a joke of a country and it is 100% because Castro. That is just fact. he has mass murdered and imprisoned people simply for having different opinions.  Are you threatening to do that with me? Good luck with that. Anyone who supports Castro   - no matter if they are Cuban or non Cuban have drank the  'I hate Amerika juice so much I have to support him'. Despite the fact he has enjoyed killing Cubans for giggles and has chased  a ridiculious amount of Cubans out of their country due to his antics.

 

You have the right to your opinion on Kanada and Kanadians (but nobody cares about us lol), Amerikans, and others... but get butthurt because people share their views on Cuba and Cubans? HAHAHA.

 

 

These forums are for people to give their views so trying to tell someone to stop it is silly. EVERYONE here has their views on things. Get over it.

 

 

"Castro is a response to the US invading and propping up a dictator, Batista. It doesn't get much more imperialist than that. So yeah, there's that. "

 

True. And, he lied to his fellow Cubans. he promised them freedom and democracy and became what he hated - just another more powerful version of Batista.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Volourn

[Ben No.3]

 

 

One wouldn't have happened without the other. I make no excuses for dictators, just saying that the colonial experience is not just Robert Mugabe's bad excuse for everything. It is also the determining factor in the development of most African countries, as you well know.

Yes you right in certain ways because we cannot ignore the reality that the Colonialists, which are my ancestors as you know, did rule for 300 years or so and you will find certain flaws and dysfunctions in the first African leaders which is a contributing factor to the fact that every single African country the French and British gave back was bankrupt by the 1980's ...except for Botswana

 

Take a quick look at this map and see how many countries that was and notice the date they got there independence

 

https://rachelstrohm.com/2014/02/01/african-colonization-independence/

 

But you have made me think about something you may find interesting, I think you have some deep SJ values which I always think is a good thing. You probably more critical than I am about things like colonialism

 

Have I ever told you about the true nature of Apartheid? It made me a better person ....but its a grim story but real and meaningful. Let me know if you want to know ?

I want to know

[Orogun01]

"Volo I would appreciate if you didn't speculate about what Cubans are, lest of all while i'm around. Reducing an entire group of people to two views just to illustrate a point might be how you get your argument across but I won't stand for such sophistry, specially when its my people you're talking about."

 

Don't pull that whiny SJW Nazi crap on me. I'lkl give my views based on my observations what 'your people' have said and done. Yopu won't stand what?  Like you've never  given your views on what others have stated were their beliefs? Like you've never made a crack about other groups based on your observations? Grow up, buckle up, and deal with others' thoughts.

 

Bottom line, NOTHING I said was false.  Cuba is a joke of a country and it is 100% because Castro. That is just fact. he has mass murdered and imprisoned people simply for having different opinions.  Are you threatening to do that with me? Good luck with that. Anyone who supports Castro   - no matter if they are Cuban or non Cuban have drank the  'I hate Amerika juice so much I have to support him'. Despite the fact he has enjoyed killing Cubans for giggles and has chased  a ridiculious amount of Cubans out of their country due to his antics.

 

You have the right to your opinion on Kanada and Kanadians (but nobody cares about us lol), Amerikans, and others... but get butthurt because people share their views on Cuba and Cubans? HAHAHA.

 

 

These forums are for people to give their views so trying to tell someone to stop it is silly. EVERYONE here has their views on things. Get over it.

 

 

"Castro is a response to the US invading and propping up a dictator, Batista. It doesn't get much more imperialist than that. So yeah, there's that. "

 

True. And, he lied to his fellow Cubans. he promised them freedom and democracy and became what he hated - just another more powerful version of Batista.

Stay classy Volo.

[Volourn]

I'm the classiest one here. Youa re the one who brought my country in this when it suited your purposes. You can tlak about Kanada and Kanadians and what they think but I can't do the same when it comes to Cuba and Cubans? Don't get mad at me that your precious leader was a mass murdering scumbag who was anti freedom, lied to  his people, and chased millions of Cubans away because he enjoyed  slitting their throats simply b/c he disliked them?

 

And, I'm the unclassy one? L0L

[HoonDing]

Do you all remember how beautiful and safe a place Havana was. Not anymore, it is from a different world! U.S. must be vigilant and smart!

[Meshugger]

Do you all remember how beautiful and safe a place Havana was. Not anymore, it is from a different world! U.S. must be vigilant and smart!

 

We all like you uncle Donald, but save the catchphrases for your Twitter account the next time, if you may.

[Zoraptor]

Castro is a response to the US invading and propping up a dictator, Batista. It doesn't get much more imperialist than that. So yeah, there's that. 

 

Yep. Castro wasn't any saint, and it would be an absolute miracle if he were given his revolutionary origins- but the US had 62 years to give Cuba legitimate, democratic, free press, non corrupt, rule of law rule and instead gave it Batista who was illegitimate (some might say a right bastard), undemocratic, anti free press, corrupt as anyone and didn't give an asterisk about rule of law.

[rjshae]

Our top story tonight: El Presidente Fidel Castro is still dead. But he's feeling better every day.

[licketysplit]

Like the theory of Trudeau being the illegitimate son of Fidel Castro, that would explain so many things:

 

 

Wow. That's eerie. 

[Meshugger]

 

Like the theory of Trudeau being the illegitimate son of Fidel Castro, that would explain so many things:

 

 

Wow. That's eerie. 

 

 

It's probably nothing.

 

[HoonDing]

"Margaret Trudeau was promiscuous"

 

urmom is fat

[Malcador]

Suprised right wing hacks here aren't running with this.

[Orogun01]

Suprised right wing hacks here aren't running with this.

It would prove that leftism is genetic.

[licketysplit]

Suprised right wing hacks here aren't running with this.

 

 

I give it a 50/50 chance.

[Malcador]

 

 

Suprised right wing hacks here aren't running with this.

It would prove that leftism is genetic.

Not really. But at least it would be a change of abuse at him.

[Drowsy Emperor]

In regards to the whole "The US does bad things, too" response when criticizing Castro.  The big difference I see is that US Presidents only have 4-8 years to do messed up things.  Congress only has 2-6 years to do messed up things.  Then the people get to vote to remove them, and despite what the media likes to cling to, those elections are remarkably fraud free.  So you have a shared responsibility for the terrible things that the government does, and they face constant criticism while doing it.

 

Castro wielded absolute power and put himself above criticism.  That's an incredibly dangerous position for anyone to be in.  

 

What was the alternative?

 

He went to the US first, realized he would get no support there and that they would try to depose him. After that any "elections" would have cost him his head. Money would have flowed to any pliable opposition on the island and there'd be as many regime change operations as it took to get rid of him.

 

This isn't Sweden or Canada where nobody cares what they do with no real opponents, massive buffer zone between any source of instability and limitless resources to build up in peace. 

 

It was either rule the way he ruled or not at all.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Drowsy Emperor

[Hurlshort]

There are a number of alternatives to becoming a lifelong dictator, I imagine.  I just don't get the need to defend the guy.  There are very few presidents I would defend in such a way.  I can't think of one, actually.   

[Gorgon]

Do you see anyone holding onto power Cuba in that kind of extremely polarized environment without being a dictator though. Remember they have no democratic tradition.  

[Meshugger]

 

Suprised right wing hacks here aren't running with this.

 

 

I give it a 50/50 chance.

 

 

Either way, the guy is going places:

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

There are a number of alternatives to becoming a lifelong dictator, I imagine.  I just don't get the need to defend the guy.  There are very few presidents I would defend in such a way.  I can't think of one, actually.

 

Given the track record of the US, the alternative was getting replaced by a CIA puppet dictator. Sort of like Batista(who Castro overthrew) or Pinochet. While I wouldn't say Castro was good in the sense of being ideologically close to my ideal or good in practice, it's hard to imagine the alternative that wasn't as bad or worse.