Fidel Castro Dead at 90

[Drowsy Emperor]

In regards to the whole "The US does bad things, too" response when criticizing Castro.  The big difference I see is that US Presidents only have 4-8 years to do messed up things.  Congress only has 2-6 years to do messed up things.  Then the people get to vote to remove them, and despite what the media likes to cling to, those elections are remarkably fraud free.  So you have a shared responsibility for the terrible things that the government does, and they face constant criticism while doing it.

 

Castro wielded absolute power and put himself above criticism.  That's an incredibly dangerous position for anyone to be in.  

 

What was the alternative?

 

He went to the US first, realized he would get no support there and that they would try to depose him. After that any "elections" would have cost him his head. Money would have flowed to any pliable opposition on the island and there'd be as many regime change operations as it took to get rid of him.

 

This isn't Sweden or Canada where nobody cares what they do with no real opponents, massive buffer zone between any source of instability and limitless resources to build up in peace. 

 

It was either rule the way he ruled or not at all.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Drowsy Emperor

[Hurlshort]

There are a number of alternatives to becoming a lifelong dictator, I imagine.  I just don't get the need to defend the guy.  There are very few presidents I would defend in such a way.  I can't think of one, actually.   

[Gorgon]

Do you see anyone holding onto power Cuba in that kind of extremely polarized environment without being a dictator though. Remember they have no democratic tradition.  

[Meshugger]

 

Suprised right wing hacks here aren't running with this.

 

 

I give it a 50/50 chance.

 

 

Either way, the guy is going places:

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

There are a number of alternatives to becoming a lifelong dictator, I imagine.  I just don't get the need to defend the guy.  There are very few presidents I would defend in such a way.  I can't think of one, actually.

 

Given the track record of the US, the alternative was getting replaced by a CIA puppet dictator. Sort of like Batista(who Castro overthrew) or Pinochet. While I wouldn't say Castro was good in the sense of being ideologically close to my ideal or good in practice, it's hard to imagine the alternative that wasn't as bad or worse.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Do you see anyone holding onto power Cuba in that kind of extremely polarized environment without being a dictator though. 

 

*shrug* I'd say the answer is patently obvious to everyone

[Hurlshort]

I should probably emphasize lifelong here.  I have a problem with any one individual holding onto power like that indefinitely with no balances.  

[Drowsy Emperor]

There is no stepping down from that position. The only way to leave power is to strike a deal, death or exile. And no one will choose any of those options unless they're already on the edge of defeat.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Drowsy Emperor

[Hurlshort]

There is no stepping down from that position. The only way to leave power is to strike a deal, death or exile. And no one will choose any of those options unless they're already on the edge of defeat.

 

That seems very dramatic.  

[Drowsy Emperor]

This was actually more pro-Castro than Russia today's embarrassing Zizek stint

 

 

Incidentally why do they keep asking that prick to give his opinion on anything - I've never heard him say anything worthwhile

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

There is no stepping down from that position. The only way to leave power is to strike a deal, death or exile. And no one will choose any of those options unless they're already on the edge of defeat.

 

That seems very dramatic.  

 

 

Its just common sense

[Gorgon]

This was actually more pro-Castro than Russia today's embarrassing Zizek stint

 

 

Incidentally why do they keep asking that prick to give his opinion on anything - I've never heard him say anything worthwhile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CDkWN1-BwE

 

I sometimes put on one of his lectures if I can't sleep. The way he drones on in an unexcited monotone about power structures. It's comforting.  

[Amentep]

 

There are a number of alternatives to becoming a lifelong dictator, I imagine.  I just don't get the need to defend the guy.  There are very few presidents I would defend in such a way.  I can't think of one, actually.

Given the track record of the US, the alternative was getting replaced by a CIA puppet dictator. Sort of like Batista(who Castro overthrew) or Pinochet. While I wouldn't say Castro was good in the sense of being ideologically close to my ideal or good in practice, it's hard to imagine the alternative that wasn't as bad or worse.

 

 

Its probably also fair to point out that Batista was showing no indications that he didn't plan to be a lifelong dictator himself.  Unlike his first stint as President, he wasn't elected for president his second time around - he'd led a military coup after losing the election and installed himself as president.  He reportedly had done many of the same things that Castro would later be accused of doing as well.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Johan Norberg

‏@johanknorberg

When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims.

[Gorgon]

He never killed anyone like that. Although plenty of people were thrown in jail for having the wrong opinions. 

 

Details matter. 

[Wrath of Dagon]

Chomsky is subliminally affecting you while you sleep.

[Gorgon]

Maybe I should go back to funny animal compilations on youtube.

[Malcador]

Hah, seems they shamed Trudeau into not going to the funeral

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

This was actually more pro-Castro than Russia today's embarrassing Zizek stint

 

 

Incidentally why do they keep asking that prick to give his opinion on anything - I've never heard him say anything worthwhile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CDkWN1-BwE

 

I sometimes put on one of his lectures if I can't sleep. The way he drones on in an unexcited monotone about power structures. It's comforting.  

 

 

I was talking about Zizek. I feel Chomsky still has intellectual credibility and is as a rule clear about the things he says.

 

Zizek just blabbers on and on, hits on something true at a rate of one sentence per hour - just enough that you can't call the mental ward to take him away. 

Edited November 28, 2016 by Drowsy Emperor

[Gromnir]

He never killed anyone like that. 

 

 

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Chilloutman]

well, what can i say? Finnaly?

[Gorgon]

 

He never killed anyone like that. 

 

 

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

 

He never killed anyone like that. 

 

 

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Well, a bullet to the chest doesn't leave you screaming. 

[Drowsy Emperor]

We can criticize Castro from the standpoint of individual ethics (as pointless as that is without taking into account the context), but no American president has a leg to stand on in this regard by comparison. The combined body-count of the ten US presidents Castro outlasted makes him look like a paragon of virtue and humanity.

 

 

Besides, the Bay of Pigs is proof enough who the Cuban people identified with. 

Edited November 29, 2016 by Drowsy Emperor

[Gromnir]

 

 

He never killed anyone like that. 

 

 

(images)

 

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

 

He never killed anyone like that. 

 

 

(images)

 

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Well, a bullet to the chest doesn't leave you screaming. 

 

you don't think more than a few o' the victims o' castro were screaming? those who went down in the boats castro sank at sea or those who watched family members killed before getting their own bullet were no doubt stoic and silent.

 

*chuckle*

 

HA! Good Fun!

[licketysplit]

 

 

This was actually more pro-Castro than Russia today's embarrassing Zizek stint

 

 

Incidentally why do they keep asking that prick to give his opinion on anything - I've never heard him say anything worthwhile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CDkWN1-BwE

 

I sometimes put on one of his lectures if I can't sleep. The way he drones on in an unexcited monotone about power structures. It's comforting.  

 

 

I was talking about Zizek. I feel Chomsky still has intellectual credibility and is as a rule clear about the things he says.

 

Zizek just blabbers on and on, hits on something true at a rate of one sentence per hour - just enough that you can't call the mental ward to take him away. 

 

 

Chomsky is a senile, biased as hell nutter at this point. The stuff that guy blames on Britian and the US is ridiculous. Sam Harris was right in dubbing him the godfather of the regressive left. A shame their debate never happened, Harris would mentally eviscerate this guy. In a calm and soothing voice. 

Edited November 29, 2016 by licketysplit