The US Election, Part XI

[Blodhemn]

Nah, there wouldn't be. Also race relations have been at a modern low through Obama's presidency. These riots are more of the same. Same group, different butthurt.

[Malcador]

As always, the real culprit in all of this is Twitter.

[Elerond]

Right to protest is vital part of democratic system, because it gives people that aren't satisfied with results by system ability to express their dissatisfaction and disagreement with direction that system is steering the country. It is one of the reasons why freedom of the speech is one of the most important rights that people have in democracy. So my question is why do you all hate democracy so much?

[licketysplit]

Right to protest is vital part of democratic system, because it gives people that aren't satisfied with results by system ability to express their dissatisfaction and disagreement with direction that system is steering the country. It is one of the reasons why freedom of the speech is one of the most important rights that people have in democracy. So my question is why do you all hate democracy so much?

 

Yeah but destroying public property, attacking people and causing a public nuisance? It's illegal. I know it's a small minority of meatheads doing this, but they aren't helping their cause. Plus, where the hell do they get off claiming they don't use hate speech?  

[Blodhemn]

There's a pretty clear difference between protesting and inciting violence. I think it's all a bit stupid to get so emotionally involved over candidates that couldn't give a crap about any one of us, but that's just me. Emotion is more of a problem than anything else as it easily shows the political figures which wedge issues to hold onto for as long as they produce the intended effect.

[Namutree]

EDIT: Deleted. Can't find the video I want. 

Edited November 11, 2016 by Namutree

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I'm glad those guys are doing so much to protest someone who kills brown people with drones and is doing record deportations while ****ing over workers to appease corporate interests.

 

Oh wait they're not protesting what Obama is currently doing, but what Trump might do. Never mind.

[Ganrich]

Last time conservatives protested they beat the brakes off of Britain, and made a new nation. You will know when conservatives have had enough.

[Namutree]

I'm glad those guys are doing so much to protest someone who kills brown people with drones and is doing record deportations while ****ing over workers to appease corporate interests.

 

Oh wait they're not protesting what Obama is currently doing, but what Trump might do. Never mind.

What happened to the left?

[213374U]

 

This is what happens when both candidates promotes a confrontational, latently aggressive and an 'us vs them' approach. The idiots of the world hears their candidates rethoric and dehumanization of political opponents and sees it as a legitimization of violence against them..

You may not have noticed, but violence is all coming from one side.

 

Sure is mate, sure is.

 

https://twitter.com/i/moments/796417517157830656?m=1

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

I'm glad those guys are doing so much to protest someone who kills brown people with drones and is doing record deportations while ****ing over workers to appease corporate interests.

Oh wait they're not protesting what Obama is currently doing, but what Trump might do. Never mind.

 

What happened to the left?

Cointelpro, the retreat into cloistered academia, and lesser-evil acceptance of liberals.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

This is what happens when both candidates promotes a confrontational, latently aggressive and an 'us vs them' approach. The idiots of the world hears their candidates rethoric and dehumanization of political opponents and sees it as a legitimization of violence against them..

You may not have noticed, but violence is all coming from one side.

 

 

If Clinton won, you don't think you'd have protesters going nuts right now?  

 

This was pretty much a no-win situation.

 

Honestly? I seriously doubt it. 

 

GD and others my  advice  is try to see these protests and violence in a different context, this is simply how many  people who feel frustrated vent and address institutionalized and societal   " unfairness " 

 

So in  this case many of the protestors have valid but misplaced views of the election results, Hilary won the popular vote yet she lost the election due to systems like the electoral colleagues:)

 

So for many protestors they dont understand the election result as it seems inconsistent with what the majority of US citizens wanted

 

But the election was a legitimate and legal outcome and no amount of protesting is going to change this result   or somehow get Congress to redesign the entire US election process to make the popular vote the deciding outcome

 

So we just need to understand and accept these protests are really about people demonstrating there frustration, you will always have degrees of protests and civil unrest

 

Its not the end of the world

[Guard Dog]

 

 

 

 

This is what happens when both candidates promotes a confrontational, latently aggressive and an 'us vs them' approach. The idiots of the world hears their candidates rethoric and dehumanization of political opponents and sees it as a legitimization of violence against them..

You may not have noticed, but violence is all coming from one side.

 

 

If Clinton won, you don't think you'd have protesters going nuts right now?  

 

This was pretty much a no-win situation.

 

Honestly? I seriously doubt it. 

 

GD and others my  advice  is try to see these protests and violence in a different context, this is simply how many  people who feel frustrated vent and address institutionalized and societal   " unfairness " 

 

So in  this case many of the protestors have valid but misplaced views of the election results, Hilary won the popular vote yet she lost the election due to systems like the electoral colleagues:)

 

So for many protestors they dont understand the election result as it seems inconsistent with what the majority of US citizens wanted

 

But the election was a legitimate and legal outcome and no amount of protesting is going to change this result   or somehow get Congress to redesign the entire US election process to make the popular vote the deciding outcome

 

So we just need to understand and accept these protests are really about people demonstrating there frustration, you will always have degrees of protests and civil unrest

 

Its not the end of the world

 

If that had been the other way around and Trump won the popular vote and Clinton won the election they would not have a problem with it. Neither would anyone who actually supported Trump I might add. 

 

Lets call these people what they are. A bunch of overgrown children pitching a fit because they didn't get their way. Violence over an election is not OK. Not here, not anywhere else, not ever. F--k them. You'd feel a lot different if it was your property they were burning or your a-s they were kicking.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Guard Dog

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

Of course I often say the same about Christians and their bibles.

The bible has some screwy stuff in it; might be best if they don't read it.

Come on, the Old Testament is a fantastic guide to living.

 

 

After all, what would we do without Strong Family Values? Surely everything would descend into gibbering chaos as the last light of virtue and beauty gets extinguished by the nihilist and decadent intelligentsia as they reshape the world to mirror the emptiness that is within their hearts

[Guard Dog]

Of course there is always another way to go: http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/11/after_trump_victory_oregonians.html

[licketysplit]

Of course there is always another way to go: http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/11/after_trump_victory_oregonians.html

 

In all honesty, this is a dangerous precedent. It's one thing to claim outrageous things on social media, but to carry it over into the real world is delusional. This is like cyberpunk politics. 

[Guard Dog]

Now this is interesting: https://www.lp.org/ballot-initiative-revolutionizes-voting-in-maine/

 

The Huffington Post covered it too: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/maine-ranked-choice-voting_us_581e49bee4b0aac62484dfb8

 

THIS is why Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandies called the States the "Laboratories of Democracy" 

 

The more I think about this the more I like it!

Edited November 11, 2016 by Guard Dog

[Meshugger]

When the left protested against war, ending mass surveillance, globalism and for free speech one could easily understand their grievances.

 

Now it requires university degree to understand.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

 

This is what happens when both candidates promotes a confrontational, latently aggressive and an 'us vs them' approach. The idiots of the world hears their candidates rethoric and dehumanization of political opponents and sees it as a legitimization of violence against them..

You may not have noticed, but violence is all coming from one side.

 

 

If Clinton won, you don't think you'd have protesters going nuts right now?  

 

This was pretty much a no-win situation.

 

Honestly? I seriously doubt it. 

 

GD and others my  advice  is try to see these protests and violence in a different context, this is simply how many  people who feel frustrated vent and address institutionalized and societal   " unfairness " 

 

So in  this case many of the protestors have valid but misplaced views of the election results, Hilary won the popular vote yet she lost the election due to systems like the electoral colleagues:)

 

So for many protestors they dont understand the election result as it seems inconsistent with what the majority of US citizens wanted

 

But the election was a legitimate and legal outcome and no amount of protesting is going to change this result   or somehow get Congress to redesign the entire US election process to make the popular vote the deciding outcome

 

So we just need to understand and accept these protests are really about people demonstrating there frustration, you will always have degrees of protests and civil unrest

 

Its not the end of the world

 

If that had been the other way around and Trump won the popular vote and Clinton won the election they would not have a problem with it. Neither would anyone who actually supported Trump I might add. 

 

Lets call these people what they are. A bunch of overgrown children pitching a fit because they didn't get their way. Violence over an election is not OK. Not here, not anywhere else, not ever. F--k them. You'd feel a lot different if it was your property they were burning or your a-s they were kicking.

 

GD now that the elections are over I am looking forward to these types of debates which are basically about social dynamics and events and our interpretation of them and what they really mean

 

 

These protests should not be seen in the context of  " violence and protests by dysfunctional human beings who dont understand how things work or wont accept the election results "

 

 If that is how you decide to see this type of event then you will  never understand the real thinking or justification  that is the actual reason for these types of protests. For example the violence you are objecting to is a result of how parts of the election were perceived

 

So the next question is a simple one  " do you want to understand the nature of these protests " ?  This doesnt mean you need to agree with the reasons or support the violence. I dont support the violence I see in the protests  and I live in a country where what you seeing now in the USA is what most of our protests end up being ...and in SA  this  has been ongoing for 22 years 

 

Its  a complete strawman argument to ask me " how would  I feel if my property was damaged " ...of course I wouldn't like it and I would be understandably upset 

 

 

But  that still wouldn't change my view that protests like you seeing in the USA  are the expected outcome to the divisive election we have seen and the actual election outcome. In Democracies this is how many people express their frustration and in many cases this occurs primarily in minority groups which is normal under the circumstances and real social dynamics that exist in the USA  at the moment

[BruceVC]

When the left protested against war, ending mass surveillance, globalism and for free speech one could easily understand their grievances.

 

Now it requires university degree to understand.

Not at all, what dont you understand about these protests?  I can explain anything you are unsure about ( well hopefully anything )

[Guard Dog]

OK Bruce, if they are holding signs, signing, shouting, whatever it is but doing it peacefully then I completely understand and sympathize with them. After all, my candidate lost too. They can even burn flags if the want. I don't like it but I'd never tell them not to. 

 

But the moment they damage property, drag people out of their cars, endanger bystanders or people just trying to live their lives it's not longer OK. And all of those things have happened. I am NOT going to sympathize or "try to understand how they feel" after that. We live in a civilized society. The first obligation we all have to each other is to not go batsht stupid and try to harm each other because something didn't turn out the way you wanted it to. There is no, I repeat, NO justification for that. 

[BruceVC]

OK Bruce, if they are holding signs, signing, shouting, whatever it is but doing it peacefully then I completely understand and sympathize with them. After all, my candidate lost too. They can even burn flags if the want. I don't like it but I'd never tell them not to. 

 

But the moment they damage property, drag people out of their cars, endanger bystanders or people just trying to live their lives it's not longer OK. And all of those things have happened. I am NOT going to sympathize or "try to understand how they feel" after that. We live in a civilized society. The first obligation we all have to each other is to not go batsht stupid and try to harm each other because something didn't turn out the way you wanted it to. There is no, I repeat, NO justification for that. 

And no one  is expecting you to support violence or any damage to property during protests. This is never acceptable

 

My point is I'm I am trying to get people to separate the violence from the reasons people are protesting. For example many forum members are dismissive of the actual protests and critical of the protestors and this is due to the violence we are seeing

 

Yet we should be openly supportive of these types protests considering the vituperative nature of the 2016 election ....but we obviously condemn the violence. I hope this makes sense

[Drowsy Emperor]

It will die down in a week.

 

It doesn't take much effort to see that the violence and aggression, while present in both camps, is significantly stronger from the liberal corner. Its not a surprise, they media has been convincing them for years that they're the sole purveyors of progress and morality. When you start to believe your own bull**** that way its only a question of time when the torches and pitchforks will come out.

 

The irony is that Trump is probably not even their genuine enemy. Apart from the provocative election campaign strategy I don't see him making it an implicit or explicit goal to oppress women, minorities etc. Like a good businessman he identified the market and sold himself as a product but the fact that they "bought" him doesn't mean they'll actually "get" him.

 

Obama was supposed to be this great herald of peace and equality (pre-emptive Nobel strike lol) but he basically continued every warmongering policy of his predecessors and the inequality gap just widened. There's no reason to believe that Trump will be much different.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Drowsy Emperor

[Guard Dog]

 

OK Bruce, if they are holding signs, signing, shouting, whatever it is but doing it peacefully then I completely understand and sympathize with them. After all, my candidate lost too. They can even burn flags if the want. I don't like it but I'd never tell them not to. 

 

But the moment they damage property, drag people out of their cars, endanger bystanders or people just trying to live their lives it's not longer OK. And all of those things have happened. I am NOT going to sympathize or "try to understand how they feel" after that. We live in a civilized society. The first obligation we all have to each other is to not go batsht stupid and try to harm each other because something didn't turn out the way you wanted it to. There is no, I repeat, NO justification for that. 

And no one  is expecting you to support violence or any damage to property during protests. This is never acceptable

 

My point is I'm I am trying to get people to separate the violence from the reasons people are protesting. For example many forum members are dismissive of the actual protests and critical of the protestors and this is due to the violence we are seeing

 

Yet we should be openly supportive of these types protests considering the vituperative nature of the 2016 election ....but we obviously condemn the violence. I hope this makes sense

 

I know why they are protesting. They made it clear why they are protesting. Their candidate lost an election. Do you think for a second it would matter if Clinton lost the popular vote as well as the electoral vote? They would still be protesting because they don't like the outcome. And I'm fine with that. Protest away. It is a free country after all. But keep it peaceful. Because the moment it isn't you are not longer a protester, just a mindless savage.

[Ben No.3]

The only persons blameable are the specific individuals who decided to resort to violence. Clinton did not promote violence, peaceful protestors did not promote violence. A person's freedom ends where another ones begins, but a few individuals will never understand that. For example: there are Christian terrorist in Africa. Am I now supposed to assume all Christians are terrorists? Can you see where I'm at?