Chris Avellone hates Obsidian!

[Tale]

I wouldn't say it takes basic elements, it takes very important elements. But important elements that have changed substantially over time to be distinct from the Van Buren originals. Like the burned man, MT, and the ending.

[WorstUsernameEver]

It's easy to say it's sour grapes, but without knowing what exactly went on, it's difficult to know how justified Avellone is in his complaints. But, also, because both parties won't really communicate on the issue, it puts pretty much every bystander in the awkward situation of watching this unfold without knowing what the eff is happening.

 

Only thing I can comment on is Avellone's stance on the Fallout setting, and personally, while I understand where he comes from and shared his opinion on the necessity to go back to a slightly darker tone for many years, now I'm not so sure. We live in an era full of similar Mad Max-y post-apocalyptic properties, so the fact that Fallout is moving in another direction offers the potential opportunity to explore new themes. Fallout 4's narrative was largely a failure, but it was also an example of a timid attempt to explore new thematic and plot directions.

[Flouride]

It's easy to say it's sour grapes, but without knowing what exactly went on, it's difficult to know how justified Avellone is in his complaints. But, also, because both parties won't really communicate on the issue, it puts pretty much every bystander in the awkward situation of watching this unfold without knowing what the eff is happening.

 

 

Yes it is. But it's exactly why Avellone should just shut up about it or come clean completely. Hinting stuff here and there is just pointless and makes him look bad. Not to mention his "hatred" is borderline unhealthy. Maybe he should just let it go and go make awesome games.

[Hurlshort]

I'd actually probably enjoy a Fallout MMO by Zenimax.  Elder Scrolls Online is a pretty solid MMO, and it stands to reason they have learned enough to make it even better.  

[HoonDing]

Who?

[Lexx]

I wouldn't say it takes basic elements, it takes very important elements. But important elements that have changed substantially over time to be distinct from the Van Buren originals. Like the burned man, MT, and the ending.

 

Still just some story elements (NCR-BoS war, etc). Even MT is nothing like anything in Van Buren. You might argue it is similar to Boulder / Dome City or so, but seeing the whole picture, it is not either (it actually resembles the cut EPA location from Fallout 2 way more). Hoover Dam is completely different as well, except for the conflict with the Legion. The Burned Man was completely different too, except for "he was with the Legion and got kicked out." Also what ending are you talking about? Van Buren's main story would end in multiple cities getting exterminated by space missiles, based on where the player character went and spread the new plague virus.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Lexx

[WorstUsernameEver]

The choice at the ending of Lonesome Road is pretty similar to the planned Van Buren ending, though at a smaller scale and without the same build-up.

[Tale]

Van Buren's main story would end in multiple cities getting exterminated by space missiles.

VB's ending was you picking a target to save from nukes. This is the ending of Lonesome Road, with the difference being that it's from the ground, not satellites.

 

Many ideas in New Vegas and its DLC originate in that same design document, ultimately. That the final result is so different doesn't really change that, it's more a reflection of the passage of time. Developers with changed interests, working in a different engine, with different limitations, budgets, and schedules.

 

I'm not saying they're the exact same thing, Van Buren and New Vegas. I am saying New Vegas is the end result of Van Buren, following a much longer journey of development. Like how we can see that the only reason Ulysses wears that mask is because they couldn't get the lip sync on his custom face working right, we can see that New Vegas is the result of time, compromise, and change upon VB.

[GhostofAnakin]

It's easy to say it's sour grapes, but without knowing what exactly went on, it's difficult to know how justified Avellone is in his complaints. But, also, because both parties won't really communicate on the issue, it puts pretty much every bystander in the awkward situation of watching this unfold without knowing what the eff is happening.

 

Seriously.  They either need to let spill exact details of what went on, or they need to just shut up about it and never hint at stuff.

 

These interviews are starting to come across as that annoying kid everyone knew who'd say, "I know a secret, but I'm not going to tell you what it is.  But it's big.  Really big", and keep bringing it up every time you see them.

[Oner]

Yeah, nah. Don't see that at all, except for a bit of the 'potential' part- Bethesda buys studios they think will make them money or which they can get cheap; and if we believe Human Head they're not averse to being... creative in their means of getting companies cheap.

TBH this is the main reason why I can't fathom why he went to Bethesda while complaining about Obsidian's management.

[Volourn]

" But it's exactly why Avellone should just shut up"

 

 "They either need to let spill exact details of what went on, or they need to just shut up about it and never hint at stuff."

 

Look at this. The Nazis are out to play. Someone says something they don't like and their response is 'shut up'. What next? tHE GULAG?

 

Wow. Avellone can say whatever the hell he wants. You can rea dit and move on. or, since it is a 'free' world you can complain and whine about it. The CHOICE is yours.

[GhostofAnakin]

" But it's exactly why Avellone should just shut up"

 

 "They either need to let spill exact details of what went on, or they need to just shut up about it and never hint at stuff."

 

Look at this. The Nazis are out to play. Someone says something they don't like and their response is 'shut up'. What next? tHE GULAG?

 

Wow. Avellone can say whatever the hell he wants. You can rea dit and move on. or, since it is a 'free' world you can complain and whine about it. The CHOICE is yours.

 

How you interpreted that from my post is beyond me.

[sorophx]

life on these forums wouldn't be the same without Volo, that's for certain

[Zoraptor]

 

Yeah, nah. Don't see that at all, except for a bit of the 'potential' part- Bethesda buys studios they think will make them money or which they can get cheap; and if we believe Human Head they're not averse to being... creative in their means of getting companies cheap.

TBH this is the main reason why I can't fathom why he went to Bethesda while complaining about Obsidian's management.

 

 

That's a somewhat different issue to my mind. Bethesda can be good to work for as owner of a subsidiary developer or developers at that subsidiary; and it could be good for management since Raf is still head of Arkane after selling up while also being potentially very bad to work for as an independent.

 

My major objection is basically that Chris is simply wrong in the conclusions he has drawn, ie Bethesda don't buy studios they like working with unless they only liked working with one studio that happened to be Crossing into bankrupcy before Beth got involved. Indeed, it is kind of ironic that Chris implies that Bethesda didn't like working with Obsidian when he would almost certainly have contributed significantly to that with the metacritic bonus issue leak and Obsidian is the only recent external studio to work on a core Beth IP, albeit Fallout wasn't so core at the time.

 

(I actually have a certain amount of agreement with Avellone's implied criticisms of Obsidian management as there has been a lack of repeat custom from publishers until recently which suggests poor results even if there weren't rumours/ evidence about development problems on almost all projects up to DS3. But I do wish he'd either come out and just say everything or no comment it, the current approach is just kind of passive aggressive jilted lover/ bad divorce. Plus I'm always mindful that if he really ended up with one friend at Obsidian then it's pretty unlikely to be everybody else's fault)

[Sarex]

I don't know, airing dirty laundry from your previous job is a good way not to get a next job. Maybe he thinks that voicing his displeasure. but not going in to detail, doesn't cross the line.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Sarex

[WorstUsernameEver]

I doubt Chris Avellone would have trouble getting a gig because of this interview. He might have burned bridges with Obsidian, but he's a big name, as proven by the fact that the moment he went freelance, a bunch of devs approached him to work with them.

[Sarex]

No matter how good you are, companies are going to be hesitant about employing you if they fear you might talk about their internal politics in public. Also who are the devs who approached him?

[Oner]

He made some contributions for Kickstarted games, though I don't remember which ones.

[Zoraptor]

DivOS 2/ Larian (finished, I think), System Shock/ Night Dive (pending, nothing actually done yet), Dishonoured 2/ Arkane (current, non kickstarter; Beth game of course which explains why he's reticent to criticise them even indirectly).

 

I think he's done some 'consultancy' for others as well, without actually doing any writing/ designing. And of course lots of interviews/ panels/ conference presentations and the like.

[Sarex]

Oh he's on Dishonored 2, nice!

[Nonek]

Prey 2 I believe.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Prey 2 I believe.

Yeah, he's on Prey 2. As far as I know, Dishonored 2 is all internal at Arkane Studios, though I know they hired some new people so my hope is that it has a better narrative than the original.

[213374U]

Boring interview. Two pages of "I don't know", "can't say", "couldn't tell even if I knew" and cryptic remarks about Obsidz management. I agree with the passive-aggressive observation.

 

I'd much rather have the dude talk about stuff he's working on. And I specifically mean games, not issues. Though that's as much his fault as the interviewer's.

 

Ah, who am I kidding. Came for the gaming, stayed for the drama. Rock on, Infinitron.

[Zoraptor]

Prey 2 I believe.

 

Grr, yes, brain though Prey 2, hands wrote Dishonoured 2. Dishonoured 2 is well past the point at which you'd expect Chris to be involved, plus it's the wrong Arkane studio working on it.

[Infinitron]

It's not Prey 2, it's just Prey. Or Prey 2017, if you will.