The US Election 2016, Part VII

[Pidesco]

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-08-02/nixon-s-failed-effort-to-withhold-his-tax-returns

 

Interesting stuff I didn't know about, regarding the custom of presidential candidates releasing their tax returns.

[BruceVC]

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-08-02/nixon-s-failed-effort-to-withhold-his-tax-returns

 

Interesting stuff I didn't know about, regarding the custom of presidential candidates releasing their tax returns.

I see some forum  members assumed this was about whether Trump had broken the law and this was a legal issue

 

For me I didnt think Trump had broken the law but his tax returns are a  very telling  story around his integrity. He claims to have the business acumen to fix the economic woes of the USA because the USA under Obama has become inefficient and weak 

 

He is also a billionaire and even though he can find legal tax loopholes to avoid pay his fair share of tax if his tax returns revealed he was paying less tax than he should this would be a serious criticism of everything he claims to stand for ....again he would be revealed to be a hypocrite but this would be a much more serious accusation...."  Trump isnt even paying his full tax and uses his business empire to pay less " 

[Pidesco]

With Trump the point of him divulging his tax returns is that he made it a positive point of his campaign that he is a sharp businessman who is worth several billion dollars (3? 5? I forget). I assume that his problem with releasing his tax returns is that they would disprove that claim, and Trump is nothing if not a self aggrandizing mook.

[BruceVC]

With Trump the point of him divulging his tax returns is that he made it a positive point of his campaign that he is a sharp businessman who is worth several billion dollars (3? 5? I forget). I assume that his problem with releasing his tax returns is that they would disprove that claim, and Trump is nothing if not a self aggrandizing mook.

Oh, thats a good point. It would reveal his true wealth...but I do think he is telling the truth about this because this is the type of comment that eventually comes back to you 

[redneckdevil]

Sigh, now we got the riots in my neck of the woods. ****ed up situation but the rioting making it MUCH worse! Protesters killing and shooting other protesters, blocking highways and steal vehicles and jacking cargo of trucks, and running down and mobbing whites for being whites. Both sides in the wrong and ****ing it up for everyone.

[BruceVC]

Sigh, now we got the riots in my neck of the woods. ****ed up situation but the rioting making it MUCH worse! Protesters killing and shooting other protesters, blocking highways and steal vehicles and jacking cargo of trucks, and running down and mobbing whites for being whites. Both sides in the wrong and ****ing it up for everyone.

I hope Volo doesnt read this....he will have a field day expressing his horror at BLM being racist ...volo is very sensitive about these things 

[Ganrich]

Sigh, now we got the riots in my neck of the woods. ****ed up situation but the rioting making it MUCH worse! Protesters killing and shooting other protesters, blocking highways and steal vehicles and jacking cargo of trucks, and running down and mobbing whites for being whites. Both sides in the wrong and ****ing it up for everyone.

 

Yup, same here.  I was planning on going to Charlotte Sunday to see a band, but...  if things haven't settled down then those plans are shot.  I've seen them a few times anyways.  So, it isn't a huge loss.  It's been a while since I paid the Queen City a visit, and was hoping to catch up with a few people.  It's all I can do to make sure my friends are safe and sound, but I don't live in the city because of reasons like this.  I will stick to the hills and mountains. 

[Rostere]

It's funny that some conspiracy theorists actually believe that Hillary has died, when figuratively her campaign is so close to parading a corpse around. Trump has "it" just like Bernie had (remember the Bernie tattoos?) - people chide Hillary for choosing fundraising over rallies, but it might be that it's a conscious choice because she is unable to energize enough people to justify large rallies.

 

Anyways, I'm sure they'll find her phylactery any day now, and then the election will be over faster than Bill Clinton can say "Necropotence".

[redneckdevil]

 

 

Sigh, now we got the riots in my neck of the woods. ****ed up situation but the rioting making it MUCH worse! Protesters killing and shooting other protesters, blocking highways and steal vehicles and jacking cargo of trucks, and running down and mobbing whites for being whites. Both sides in the wrong and ****ing it up for everyone.

I hope Volo doesnt read this....he will have a field day expressing his horror at BLM being racist ...volo is very sensitive about these things

Here's the thing and I wanna ask u a question because I can't seem to get an answer from my friends about this.

With the cop killing innocents, why is when it happens to a white/Latino/Asian/etc it's viewed as the cops ****ed up badly, but when it happens to a black person its a racist act and not simply a huge **** up with like with the others?

[Pidesco]

 

 

Sigh, now we got the riots in my neck of the woods. ****ed up situation but the rioting making it MUCH worse! Protesters killing and shooting other protesters, blocking highways and steal vehicles and jacking cargo of trucks, and running down and mobbing whites for being whites. Both sides in the wrong and ****ing it up for everyone.

I hope Volo doesnt read this....he will have a field day expressing his horror at BLM being racist ...volo is very sensitive about these things

Here's the thing and I wanna ask u a question because I can't seem to get an answer from my friends about this.

With the cop killing innocents, why is when it happens to a white/Latino/Asian/etc it's viewed as the cops ****ed up badly, but when it happens to a black person its a racist act and not simply a huge **** up with like with the others?

 

 

Because there is racial bias. This mostly about white vs black but there's some mentions of hispanics as well:

 

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/07/data-police-racial-bias

 

 

Also, this doesn't mean that the cop is actively racist, but rather that there is built in prejudice into police behavior. Racist act doesn't necessarily mean the guy who acted is an evil white supremacist.

[Gfted1]

Cause that's how you get the retweets. Hell, even a black cop shooting a black person is racist to BLM.

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

Sigh, now we got the riots in my neck of the woods. ****ed up situation but the rioting making it MUCH worse! Protesters killing and shooting other protesters, blocking highways and steal vehicles and jacking cargo of trucks, and running down and mobbing whites for being whites. Both sides in the wrong and ****ing it up for everyone.

I hope Volo doesnt read this....he will have a field day expressing his horror at BLM being racist ...volo is very sensitive about these things

Here's the thing and I wanna ask u a question because I can't seem to get an answer from my friends about this.

With the cop killing innocents, why is when it happens to a white/Latino/Asian/etc it's viewed as the cops ****ed up badly, but when it happens to a black person its a racist act and not simply a huge **** up with like with the others?

 

 

Because there is racial bias. This mostly about white vs black but there's some mentions of hispanics as well:

 

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/07/data-police-racial-bias

 

 

Also, this doesn't mean that the cop is actively racist, but rather that there is built in prejudice into police behavior. Racist act doesn't necessarily mean the guy who acted is an evil white supremacist.

 

 

Minorities are actually less likely to be shot by the Police than whites: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2016/04/27/this-study-found-race-matters-in-police-shootings-but-the-results-may-surprise-you/

 

Also add into the problem with blacks and hispanics being overpresented in crime to begin with. Where does the racism begin and where does the fact of police just responding to criminal activity end? http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cvus08.pdf

 

Unless these issues are investigated and measures taken accordingly, nothing will be solved.

[Guard Dog]

 

 

 

No, I did quote that speech but I am far more concerned about what they want to do and don't talk about:

 

 

 

what they "don't talk about" is not same as multiple instances o' obama calling for the creation o' a national police force.  it simple ain't.  again, Gromnir has concerns 'bout a national police force, and such a thing is unconstitutional regardless, but the claim you made is simple untrue. the issues you raise is valid. am even agreeing with some o' what you say. no need to muck up the water with mischaracterization o' obama statements.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

I do sometimes take the liberty of boiling a topic to it's simplest terms. 

 

But I have to say you are one of the few members on this forum who will recognize you may be wrong or at least your comments may be misplaced due to emotion. This is a positive character trait 

 

Hold up here Bruce. I am only agreeing with Grom in that yes, I did intentionally over simplify my statement to you when I said Obama is calling for a "nationalized" police force. He is way too smart to actually say something like that, that is so obviously unconstitutional. But as much as I respect Gromnir, he's wrong. That is EXACTLY what the President and his admin is trying to do. If you take the time to actually read the documents and articles I linked the committee that commissioned the Rand Corporation  study, was created by his administration is is ultimately answerable to him. And it's very obvious in reading their findings they are trying to justify the creation of something that has never existed. So yes, mea culpa on quoting Obama's speech but I stand by my assertion on what he tried to do here. 

 

Now this may all be moot. In 120 days we will have a new President. Congress will only be in session for 41 of those 120 days.Very little is going to happen between now and then.But it is worth noting for those casting a vote in a few weeks what the intention was here.

[Pidesco]

 

 

 

 

Sigh, now we got the riots in my neck of the woods. ****ed up situation but the rioting making it MUCH worse! Protesters killing and shooting other protesters, blocking highways and steal vehicles and jacking cargo of trucks, and running down and mobbing whites for being whites. Both sides in the wrong and ****ing it up for everyone.

I hope Volo doesnt read this....he will have a field day expressing his horror at BLM being racist ...volo is very sensitive about these things

Here's the thing and I wanna ask u a question because I can't seem to get an answer from my friends about this.

With the cop killing innocents, why is when it happens to a white/Latino/Asian/etc it's viewed as the cops ****ed up badly, but when it happens to a black person its a racist act and not simply a huge **** up with like with the others?

 

 

Because there is racial bias. This mostly about white vs black but there's some mentions of hispanics as well:

 

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/07/data-police-racial-bias

 

 

Also, this doesn't mean that the cop is actively racist, but rather that there is built in prejudice into police behavior. Racist act doesn't necessarily mean the guy who acted is an evil white supremacist.

 

 

Minorities are actually less likely to be shot by the Police than whites: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2016/04/27/this-study-found-race-matters-in-police-shootings-but-the-results-may-surprise-you/

 

Also add into the problem with blacks and hispanics being overpresented in crime to begin with. Where does the racism begin and where does the fact of police just responding to criminal activity end? http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cvus08.pdf

 

Unless these issues are investigated and measures taken accordingly, nothing will be solved.

 

 

All the collected statistics on actual shootings seem to disagree with that study of police shooting simulations.

[Wrath of Dagon]

These riots have everything to do with the narrative and nothing to do with reality.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I know it's the Guardian, but **** it.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database

 

57 people were killed in September

93 in August

84 in July

98 in June

86 in May

83 in April

100 in March

100 in February

87 in January

Total so far: 788

Avg: 88 per month

And judging at least from the stats from the guardian:

Per Million

4.61 Black

3.4 Native American

2.34 Hispanic/Latino

1.93 White

0.73 Asian/Pacific Islander

Total:

194 Black

13 Native American

130 Hispanic/Latino

383 White

13 Asian/Pacific Islander

55 Other/Unknown

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

No, I did quote that speech but I am far more concerned about what they want to do and don't talk about:

 

 

 

what they "don't talk about" is not same as multiple instances o' obama calling for the creation o' a national police force.  it simple ain't.  again, Gromnir has concerns 'bout a national police force, and such a thing is unconstitutional regardless, but the claim you made is simple untrue. the issues you raise is valid. am even agreeing with some o' what you say. no need to muck up the water with mischaracterization o' obama statements.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

I do sometimes take the liberty of boiling a topic to it's simplest terms. 

 

But I have to say you are one of the few members on this forum who will recognize you may be wrong or at least your comments may be misplaced due to emotion. This is a positive character trait 

 

Hold up here Bruce. I am only agreeing with Grom in that yes, I did intentionally over simplify my statement to you when I said Obama is calling for a "nationalized" police force. He is way too smart to actually say something like that, that is so obviously unconstitutional. But as much as I respect Gromnir, he's wrong. That is EXACTLY what the President and his admin is trying to do. If you take the time to actually read the documents and articles I linked the committee that commissioned the Rand Corporation  study, was created by his administration is is ultimately answerable to him. And it's very obvious in reading their findings they are trying to justify the creation of something that has never existed. So yes, mea culpa on quoting Obama's speech but I stand by my assertion on what he tried to do here. 

 

Now this may all be moot. In 120 days we will have a new President. Congress will only be in session for 41 of those 120 days.Very little is going to happen between now and then.But it is worth noting for those casting a vote in a few weeks what the intention was here.

 

What !!!  Oh so you not admitting you were wrong....I assumed Gromnirs point had convinced you ?

 

 

I admit I didnt read the links because I simply dont believe for one second that Obama ever wanted to implement a federal police force...you know why I am so adamant I am right?

 

What would be his reason for this? Please be honest

[BruceVC]

These riots have everything to do with the narrative and nothing to do with reality.

No thats a simplification and dismissal of a social problem that does exist in some places in the USA

 

There are real examples of police heavy handedness and racial profiling by some policemen in the USA, of course this doesnt apply to all policeman and there is real effort in many states to address this 

 

But what this has created is a reality where some people who are aligned to BLM will now embellish this problem and say things like " the police want to kill us " or " all police are racist " and of course these generalizations are untrue and unhelpful

 

But this doesn't mean you can ignore the original issue of some police targeting African Americans unfairly 

[Guard Dog]

Bruce if you are not going to trouble yourself to read the material how can you expect to have a discussion about it? As for why, I will allow a great American thinker and patriot, Daniel Webster answer that question:

 

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."

[BruceVC]

Bruce if you are not going to trouble yourself to read the material how can you expect to have a discussion about it? As for why, I will allow a great American thinker and patriot, Daniel Webster answer that question:

 

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."

But to be fair I thought that post was directed towards Gromnir so I didnt think I needed to read it. I should have read it, my bad 

 

 

But now your comment towards my question unintentionally demonstrates why I get frustrated and confused by some of the anti-Obama and anti-Clinton comments you guys sometimes make

 

You are an intelligent person who has some real life experience, you made a very controversial comment and I asked you why you would think that, For me you must have a theory or reason but it doesnt answer the question in anyway to read that Webster quote because thats just a opinion that is subjective and could or could not apply in some circumstances

 

I want to know your personal view

Edited September 22, 2016 by BruceVC

[BruceVC]

I know it's the Guardian, but **** it.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database

 

57 people were killed in September

93 in August

84 in July

98 in June

86 in May

83 in April

100 in March

100 in February

87 in January

Total so far: 788

Avg: 88 per month

And judging at least from the stats from the guardian:

Per Million

4.61 Black

3.4 Native American

2.34 Hispanic/Latino

1.93 White

0.73 Asian/Pacific Islander

Total:

194 Black

13 Native American

130 Hispanic/Latino

383 White

13 Asian/Pacific Islander

55 Other/Unknown

In other words are you saying more white people are killed by police  in the USA than AA?

 

[Guard Dog]

 

Bruce if you are not going to trouble yourself to read the material how can you expect to have a discussion about it? As for why, I will allow a great American thinker and patriot, Daniel Webster answer that question:

 

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."

But to be fair I thought that post was directed towards Gromnir so I didnt think I needed to read it. I should have read it, my bad 

 

 

But now your comment towards my question unintentionally demonstrates why I get frustrated and confused by some of the anti-Obama and anti-Clinton comments you guys sometimes make

 

You are an intelligent person who has some real life experience, you made a very controversial comment and I asked you why you would think that, For me you must have a theory or reason but it doesnt answer the question in anyway to read that Webster quote because thats just a opinion that is subjective and could or could not apply in some circumstances

 

I want to know your personal view

 

I will get back to you tonight. This will be a rather long response. But let me say Mr. Webster's words are exactly on point.

[Gromnir]

I know it's the Guardian, but **** it.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database

 

57 people were killed in September

93 in August

84 in July

98 in June

86 in May

83 in April

100 in March

100 in February

87 in January

Total so far: 788

Avg: 88 per month

And judging at least from the stats from the guardian:

Per Million

4.61 Black

3.4 Native American

2.34 Hispanic/Latino

1.93 White

0.73 Asian/Pacific Islander

Total:

194 Black

13 Native American

130 Hispanic/Latino

383 White

13 Asian/Pacific Islander

55 Other/Unknown

guardian is utter bs. use washington post.  wp actual does follow-up rather than using any media mention o' a shooting to add to totals. am personal most concerned 'bout unarmed victims o' police shootings. TOTAL number o' unarmed peoples shot by cops in the US were 93... all races.  black, sadly, accounted for more o' those 93 than any other ethnic group, but regardless, still talking 'bout small numbers compared to total gun violence in this nation.  hell, is small numbers compared to number o' american deaths by baseball bat or in bare-knuckle fights.  

 

perhaps most sad is that a significant percentage o' those shot by cops were reported to have been exhibiting signs o' mental illness. more than 1/4. the US does a terrible job o' taking care o' its mental ill.  (edit: the 1/4 mark is o' the total shootings.  am not seeing numbers o' metal ill prevalence in the unarmed shootings) the burden o' personal responsibility is a bit higher in the US than in other western nations.  individuals need provide for their own food and shelter and higher educations.  unfortunately, the mental ill predictable is less capable o' providing for themselves, so they fall through cracks and they frequent get no help at all.

 

total shot dead by cops in 2015 were 990. total so far this year is 706.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/

 

as for gd still believing that the obama administration wants a national police force... *shrug*  am not least bit bothered that gd has come to such a conclusion.  we were only concerned 'bout mischaracterization o' obama statements.  unnecessary.  while Gromnir is less concerned 'bout the possibility o' the fed trying to install a national police force than is gd, we can understand why gd is concerned.  gd and Gromnir arrive at different conclusions.  thank goodness.  would be scary if everybody thought same as Gromnir.  our only point were that obama had not overt advocated a national police force five times in the last few years.  just hasn't happened.  gd sees the rough beast slouching towards bethlehem?  fine.  we got no problem with him believing different than Gromnir.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited September 22, 2016 by Gromnir

[Volourn]

Black cop working for a black commision working for a black mayor working for a black governor working for a black president shooting a black suspect = racism.

 

LMAO

 

Seriously,  BLM cries about racism even in situations when it clearly sin't racism. Then again, this is a group that marches down streets chanting,"DEATH TO WHITEY",  celebrate the murder of whites, they robb fellow blacks, and they **** at the thoguht of an innocent black woman getting shot by a BLM shooter as she is protecting her children and white cops rescue her.

 

EVIL SJW Nazis who are nothing more than the KKK. They don't give a crap about innocent black people like that black  girl shot in a drive by shooting while doing her homework in her bedroom.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Volourn

[BruceVC]

Black cop working for a black commision working for a black mayor working for a black governor working for a black president shooting a black suspect = racism.

 

LMAO

 

Seriously,  BLM cries about racism even in situations when it clearly sin't racism. Then again, this is a group that marches down streets chanting,"DEATH TO WHITEY",  celebrate the murder of whites, they robb fellow blacks, and they **** at the thoguht of an innocent black woman getting shot by a BLM shooter as she is protecting her children and white cops rescue her.

 

EVIL SJW Nazis who are nothing more than the KKK. They don't give a crap about innocent black people like that black shot in a drive by shooting while doing her homework in her bedroom.

I knew how this would upset you, this is EXACTLY  why I didnt want you to read this link

 

 

I have  a suggestion going forward, I will read all political links and then tell you what is suitable. This way you will never get upset about a misunderstanding. So I will effectively be your filter for negative news....this way you can focus on what you enjoy which is gaming and let me provide you with stories that you wont misinterpret and see them as negative ?

 

Its basically a win win for you?