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s13ep

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Humans are able to think in shapes, dimensions, symbols, images, scenes, and more. 

 

Why do modern scientists retain an intellectual image when the science they conduct is word-based? 

I'm sure a majority of modern scientists are unwise.

It's not the science that's incorrect, it's the promotion of a false intellectual image of a human being intelligent by words.

Your intelligence is a bunch of words?.. Let's see it!

Edited by s13ep

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this again? :)

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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this again? :)

This again?

 

 

Strange, you are using words now, I expected some picture as a response

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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Words are necessary to explain our thoughts and emotions. Narrowing the amount of words and you narrow the amount of thought. Before you know it, you cannot think of anything because you lack the ability to express it and you have come full circle to yourself and as a new-born child.

"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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Humans are able to think in shapes, dimensions, symbols, images, scenes, and more. 

 

Why do modern scientists retain an intellectual image when the science they conduct is word-based? 

 

I'm sure a majority of modern scientists are unwise.

 

It's not the science that's incorrect, it's the promotion of a false intellectual image of a human being intelligent by words.

 

Your intelligence is a bunch of words?.. Let's see it!

I love using big English words where appropriate, its not about coming across as clever its just about vocabulary 

 

But what are we supposed to do ?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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The problem is words, not the fact "intelligence isn't words" which I'm arguing the case for more so than yourself.

You could have built this 'collider' without the use of words...

Children are able to create their own languages out of symbols, nonsensical to people like yourself, and think in these symbols, possibly and probably constructing a better understanding than people like yourself; and this is just symbols. 

Children can be anything.

 

You can attribute value to a symbol, for example; a human may choose a symbol to represent 'the child', and this symbol also expresses the value of 'the child' to the human.

 

Humans can create many symbols, and attribute different value to each; some symbols can mean 'a thousand words' - there is no limit to the symbols that can be created by humans.

Building the collider is not word-based, the scientists who built it were in support of intelligence that includes words. 

Sort of like written language, without restrictions...

I'm sure I could build the collider at some point in my life if I had the need.

Words are symbols, but they are restricted to what we can communicate, as oppose to what we can think. 

As for communication, what we can think, can be expressed in many ways. Not 'interpretative dance', feeling and expression, character and emotion; there are many aspects of nature we can make use of to make a point.

 

Thought would be more fluent with this 'more convoluted language', but communication wouldn't! However, if humans were in a good relationship with each other, I think communication also would become fluent.

 

The scientists speak in and think in words; they present themselves as this word-afflicted mammal.

I have not dedicated years to such a collider - and any human who does can make a significant contribution to the effort. 

We have to first want what the Government has produced (which often means that we have to endure time in educational institutes); the conversion of our wants truly twists our frame of reference. We must accept the man-made reality that comes with the scientists who speak and think in words, and their discoveries and technology, because of the word-aspect.

Language doesn't evolve to the great degrees that a 'more convoluted language' could.

 

IF NOT SCIENCE... IT'LL MAKE A GOOD STORY!

Edited by s13ep

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Words are tiny pictograms in sequence. Pictures.

They are all one value!

 

quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Dywyddyr viewpost-right.png
 
quote_icon.png Originally Posted by m0nk3y viewpost-right.png
'Very rapidly', must be in your case, lacking knowledge of the speed that's possible in the universe!
And you do know?

By my own symbols, yes.

 

And before you make a crude statement against it, this type of language I have tried to argue for in this thread.

 

I haven't really won the case, however, I said I would research more ways in which wordless thought can be contrasted to word, and then reinstate my argument.

 

 
quote_icon.png Originally Posted by PhDemon viewpost-right.png
Trash please...

Good night, sweet prince.

 

Hopefully one of you can orgasm out some semantics to raise the level of excitement before you bore off all the peers.

Edited by s13ep

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Words are symbols, but they are restricted to what we can communicate, as oppose to what we can think. 

 

Words are a medium, they are as restricted a medium as a strip of film or a marble stone or a canvas or a touch between two people or a motion before the eyes.  There are things that can be done to express what you can via the medium and things you cannot.  The medium will always bring its limitations, as will the artist as will the spectator, listener, viewer, feeler.  This shouldn't be seen, in my opinion, as a devaluing of any medium, though, only an expression that all mediums are limited both in what they can accomplish and in the requirement of shared understanding of meaning.

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I wish OP would stop using words.

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Words are tiny pictograms in sequence. Pictures.

Words are just a way to express something. Somewhere along the way, it gave an evolutionary advantage being able to communicate with them, so our physique and brains adapted to it. You might as well express yourself with cat pictures, putting your fist in somebody's face or put your body in front of an armoured vehicle to protest something. Ask yourself, if you plan to take a cup out of the cupboard, does your brain hear the words "open cupboard, reach for cup" or do you see a mental image of it happening. Not sure about the answer to be honest, as conscious thought seems to chase the image/words away from your mind. I do know, if someone asks me what I planned to do, it's easier to express in words that I planned on taking a cup out of the cupboard than doing some elaborate, stylistic dance illustrating how a cupboard open and a cup approaches my hand.

 

Edit: wow, Amentep is fast, putting it in less words than me no less ;)

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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Words are tiny pictograms in sequence. Pictures.

Words are just a way to express something. Somewhere along the way, it gave an evolutionary advantage being able to communicate with them, so our physique and brains adapted to it. You might as well express yourself with cat pictures, putting your fist in somebody's face or put your body in front of an armoured vehicle to protest something. Ask yourself, if you plan to take a cup out of the cupboard, does your brain hear the words "open cupboard, reach for cup" or do you see a mental image of it happening. Not sure about the answer to be honest, as conscious thought seems to chase the image/words away from your mind. I do know, if someone asks me what I planned to do, it's easier to express in words that I planned on taking a cup out of the cupboard than doing some elaborate, stylistic dance illustrating how a cupboard open and a cup approaches my hand.

 

Edit: wow, Amentep is fast, putting it in less words than me no less ;)

 

You are right, in your own way, but you suppress the potential of wordless thought and communication of wordless creatures...

 

It's not only about these moments where we 'express a point' to each other, and these moments aren't always passive, or friendly.

 

In other words, I think it's erroneous to reduce what's wordless, to how word-processes would appear wordlessly.

 

There is also thought - there is also relationship, there are many aspects of life, that truly are abstracted by words... It's not like the world is free of word and we can choose when to speak or think in them.

Edited by s13ep

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Words are dependent on the architecture

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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I still don't understand what OP trying to prove/tell to us. Can someone explain it to me? Is he communicating with animals by imagining pictures in his head, or is he saying he is connectect to multiverse beings by his imagination? I am just simple man

Edited by Chilloutman

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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I still don't understand what OP trying to prove/tell to us. Can someone explain it to me? Is he communicating with animals by imagining pictures in his head, or is he saying he is connectect to multiverse beings by his imagination? I am just simple man

 

It's all part of our mental health outreach program here on the Obsidian Forums™.  It isn't about what the OP is saying, but rather that he feels he is being heard and cared for.  Good work folks.

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I still don't understand what OP trying to prove/tell to us. Can someone explain it to me? Is he communicating with animals by imagining pictures in his head, or is he saying he is connectect to multiverse beings by his imagination? I am just simple man

 

He's arguing to my understanding that intelligent thought is independent of any form and that form limits thought.  In a way it is not that dissimilar to Socrates/Plato's "Allegory of the Cave".

 

Mind you that's what I'm receiving.  What he's actually sending may be completely different.  Due to the inadequacies of words to convey the truest thought, natch. :)

Edited by Amentep
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He's arguing to my understanding that intelligent thought is independent of any form and that form limits thought.  In a way it is not that dissimilar to Plato's "Allegory of the Cave".

 

Mind you that's what I'm receiving.  What he's actually sending may be completely different.  Due to the inadequacies of words to convey the truest thought, natch. :)

He's probably spent too much time with Dak'kon in PS:T, pondering how order and structure is trying to put shackles on and limit Entropy.

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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You know looking at a few illiterate cultures one finds quite an interesting take on intelligence that makes a chap re-assess their views ocassionally. The Old Norse had no written language, they had the runes of Allfather Odin of course but these were not used for writing but carving as their angularity attests, and yet they were a clever people. One need only listen to their poetry, which the Skald had to learn through mnemonics and recite, and these were often lengthy, dry recitations of names and deeds such as when Odin lists his hundred names. Then there is their kenning poetry, where the speaker hides his meaning behind allegorical references from Eddas, myths and culture, and the audience must riddle out those meanings.

 

Intelligence may take other routes but who among us can truly compare themselves to the great minds of science, when placed next to Newton, Gallileo, Copernicus or any of a hundred others. I know that I am not standing on the shoulders of giants, I am the pocket lint that has fallen under their shoes. To criticise them would be immodest, unwise and short sighted considering how many boons science has bestowed upon humanity.

Edited by Nonek
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Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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Words are symbols, but they are restricted to what we can communicate, as oppose to what we can think. 

 

Words are a medium, they are as restricted a medium as a strip of film or a marble stone or a canvas or a touch between two people or a motion before the eyes.  There are things that can be done to express what you can via the medium and things you cannot.  The medium will always bring its limitations, as will the artist as will the spectator, listener, viewer, feeler.  This shouldn't be seen, in my opinion, as a devaluing of any medium, though, only an expression that all mediums are limited both in what they can accomplish and in the requirement of shared understanding of meaning.

 

Yeah. Though, as usual, it's not as simple (?) as OP would suggest. Language is not just a medium. Language actually strongly influences the way thoughts themselves are formed. I'm sure this has come up before in these forums, but for anyone interested in how this seems to work, look up the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis.

 

OP is also wrong about scientists, of course. When trying to express notions that seem alien or impossible in the macroscopic world or otherwise beyond our normal parameters of understanding, they resort to math. The strangeness results from trying to put into common words what the math is saying. This is interesting, and tied to the previous point, because math allows us to progress and advance in fields that we do not "understand". Math is also a language of sorts, but not one that comes naturally for most people. For those to whom it does... it really is a ****ing marvel to watch, though. Humbling, too.

 

edit: who/to whom, i cannot into words

Edited by 213374U

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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I still don't understand what OP trying to prove/tell to us. Can someone explain it to me? Is he communicating with animals by imagining pictures in his head, or is he saying he is connectect to multiverse beings by his imagination? I am just simple man

 

It's all part of our mental health outreach program here on the Obsidian Forums™.  It isn't about what the OP is saying, but rather that he feels he is being heard and cared for.  Good work folks.

 

Thats convenient, his profile is exactly the same as most members....he should fit right in  :teehee:

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"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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