Shooting at Munich shopping mall

[ShadySands]

Apparently he wasn't targeting foreigners by choice. The place simply was mainly visited by them, so naturally they were more likely to get hit.

Was he not a local? Seems like something you'd know if you lived nearby

[Drowsy Emperor]

Presumably he knew which victims he was going for seeing as how he lured them to the McDonalds with the promise of free food.

[Varana]

He did try to lure people there - how many of those reading this were his actual acquaintances, remains to be seen, as he used a fake Facebook profile (made-up name, history and pictures and things copied from elsewhere). Also, none of those killed seem to have been in contact with "him" (i.e. the girl he posed as on FB). Once there, he apparently fired randomly at people.

[Valsuelm]

Two more attacks in Germany by 'immigrants' since this one.....

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/germany-machete-attack-shocking-footage-8485670

 

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_APNEWSALERT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-07-24-21-41-36

 

'No show for you!!'

'Oh yea!?!?!?!'

 

Seriously though, there's no problem with all them 'immigrants' from the mid east at all. Not at all.... and if you think otherwise, you're a racist!!!

Edited July 25, 2016 by Valsuelm

[Hastur]

Poor Germans are getting some of the heat that France has experienced lately.  Not as many deaths, but quite a few attacks.  Any deaths are bad, of course, and these attacks in various cities do serve to spread some amount of fear to be sure.

[Lexx]

I wouldn't draw conclusions too fast. The bomb dude apparently was suicidal already before. As far as I've read, he already tried to kill himself (and not others at the same time) before.

 

That machete dude, no idea. Could have whatever reason. We had shait like turkish honor killings before too.

 

In any case, both attacks have a thing of "they were known psychics since before"-thing going. So it's not really like the other attacks in the past weeks.

 

/edit:

Of course, everyone WANTS it to be related. Like I wrote a few days ago-- it's as if everyone is really waiting and hoping for the first big "IS attack", just so they can happily scream told you so.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Lexx

[Hastur]

The 'they were just crazy' argument doesn't make sense to me.  If people of a certain background have a greater tendency to go gonzo and become murderous, then you're still going to have other people make the association.  If it weren't for the real and demonstrated danger of the Islamic Jihadist extremists, then the so called lone wolves would be lumped in with other run of the mill crazies.  At this point, saying that some guy who goes off his rocker and starts killing folk was already inclined to do so sounds increasingly like a poorly crafted apology coming from someone trying to explain away evidence that refutes his central position.  Most of the population will eventually turn away from the argument.  Not really a slam on you, Lexx.  I don't doubt your character or your motive, merely your conclusions.

 

However, to get away from the politics, Germany has still been coming under fire a lot lately.  There must be debate about the source, but in the meantime, it's gotta suck for the people there.

[Volourn]

Too much apologies and excuses on behalf of 9extremist0 muslims. That is the big issue. When an extremist Chrstian nutball  people don't rush to the defens eof the religion or make excuses for the guy and try to blame the victims or others. They RIGHTLY point out that 100% the extremists and extremism is the issue. Nobody holds back in mocking and making fun of Christians/CVatholic for their priest molestation problem but point out/.mocking Islam for its obvious  massive hatred foranyone who disdagrees with them is sickening. A bunch of extremist Muslims mass murdering other Muslims and somehow it is the fault of 'West'. WHAT.

 

Thing is like the stupid defense of bad cops. Defending the bad ones (be they cops, Muslims, Christians, BLM, KKK) does absolutely NO GOOD for the actual good ones. ZILCH.

 

Condolences to the victims and those who actually care about them.

 

 

P.S. As above, it should be pointed out by making excuses for 'evil' people doing bad things by stating they 'must be crazy' does no service to people who actually have mental issues that they can't control. Extreme hatred is not a 'mental illness'. Plenty of KKK mmebers and BLM can hate the object of their wrath yet control themselves and not kill people.

 

P.S.S. This isn't  directly about these recent incidents since not neccessarily enough info to 'diagnose' them (lol) but a general trend amongst the usual peons.

[Lexx]

We have crazy people doing shait all the time. Just because they are not of Aryan origin, suddenly it is worthy of world wide news? ... Please. People want to make a big deal out of it when it suits their agenda. That's what's going on.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Lexx

[Darkpriest]

So we had 4 attacks in last 5 days - 1 was most likely some German-Iranian guy on personal vendetta and 3 others are linked to refugees - Munich

 

1) a guy with knife and axe in the public transport - 17yo afghan - Wuerzburg

 

2) a guy with machete in a small bar - 21yo syrian - arrested, Reutlingen

 

3) a guy blew himself up at a restaurant after he failed to enter a nearby festival - 27yo syrian - Ansbach

Edited July 25, 2016 by Darkpriest

[Hastur]

Aw, I didn't question your agenda.  ...But, since you mention it, I could.  Maybe the reason you don't want to acknowledge a segment of the population who seem to have certain tendencies is in order to push your agenda.  The thing is, somewhere between saying all Muslims are our mortal enemies and saying that all Muslims are peaceniks who want nothing more than our mutual happiness is to say that there is a small vocal and powerful group within Islam whose central tactic is violence and whose central aim is to create a powerful and world-wide Caliphate.  Like Volurn said up above, you don't help the peaceful and good will Muslims by pretending that the sub-group doesn't exist.  I believe in good manners to be sure, but I despise political correctness even more fervently.  That's not an excuse to be rude, merely realistic.

[BruceVC]

Aw, I didn't question your agenda.  ...But, since you mention it, I could.  Maybe the reason you don't want to acknowledge a segment of the population who seem to have certain tendencies is in order to push your agenda.  The thing is, somewhere between saying all Muslims are our mortal enemies and saying that all Muslims are peaceniks who want nothing more than our mutual happiness is to say that there is a small vocal and powerful group within Islam whose central tactic is violence and whose central aim is to create a powerful and world-wide Caliphate.  Like Volurn said up above, you don't help the peaceful and good will Muslims by pretending that the sub-group doesn't exist.  I believe in good manners to be sure, but I despise political correctness even more fervently.  That's not an excuse to be rude, merely realistic.

Trump also doesn't  believe in political correctness....maybe that's another reason you are supporting him 

 

But of course Islamic Extremism exists, it represents a small percentage of Muslims worldwide but its real and ISIS is responsible for many attacks against the West

 

But our friends in Germany also dont want to associate every single terrorist attack automatically with Islamic Extremism as they dont want to promote Islamophobia and fear mongering unnecessarily. So I understand there caution

[Hastur]

Yeah, but Trump believes neither in good manners nor in propriety, so it's a pretty lackluster endorsement on my part.  ​  

 

I think we should wait for all the facts in these cases.  Don't assume anything.  If it is Islamic terrorism, don't skirt the issue.  Just level with the population and they'll trust you more.  For my part, I was willing to believe the authorities that the Munich shooter was a white nazi nationalist.  Maybe it wasn't subtrefuge on their part, but it makes it harder to trust the authorities when they seem more concern with a theoretical backlash against Islam than they do about presenting the facts.  If you don't trust the public with the truth, the public probably won't trust you for very long either.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Hastur

[Drowsy Emperor]

I wouldn't draw conclusions too fast. The bomb dude apparently was suicidal already before. As far as I've read, he already tried to kill himself (and not others at the same time) before.

 

 

Suicidal people don't put a shrapnel loaded bomb in a backpack and go wondering about town usually.

[Lexx]

Seriously. Nobody knew any facts at that time, yet everyone is jumping into conclusions. THIS is the problem nobody wants to acknowledge. Some shait happens and BAM it must be some Islamist terrorist of course. People are so fixed on this stuff, they fail to stop for a moment.

 

Also lol @ Hastur, twisting my words and making it look like i am strict Muslim terror denial.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Lexx

[Chilloutman]

Seriously. Nobody knew any facts at that time, yet everyone is jumping into conclusions. THIS is the problem nobody wants to acknowledge. Some shait happens and BAM it must be some Islamist terrorist of course. People are so fixed on this stuff, they fail to stop for a moment.

 

Also lol @ Hastur, twisting my words and making it look like i am strict Muslim terror denial.

well, but stating that there is problem with islamist terrorists in EU and then stating that PROBLEM is that people think about other attacks they are as well islamistic terrorists is strange. I am not denying it, but it seems you swap cause with consequences

[Elerond]

I meant to write about machete guy yesterday but then thought that it don't belong here because he had fight with his girlfriend and killed her. That isn't terrorism but much more typical form of violence. And it don't even seem to be related on these new over million refugees that have arrived in Germany in past year as both machete wielding murderer and killed woman who was girlfriend of the killer were working in same restaurant.

[Lexx]

I am on mobile right now, so it is hard for me to re-check what I wrote, but I do not believe I wrote something about there being a problem with Islamic terror in the EU (not that I would necessarily disagree). If I did write something along the line of that, then it was purely related to Germany only and not the whole EU. Basically, everything I wrote in this thread was related to the recent stuff happening in Germany.

[Chilloutman]

I am on mobile right now, so it is hard for me to re-check what I wrote, but I do not believe I wrote something about there being a problem with Islamic terror in the EU (not that I would necessarily disagree). If I did write something along the line of that, then it was purely related to Germany only and not the whole EU. Basically, everything I wrote in this thread was related to the recent stuff happening in Germany.

Yeah i get what you mean, but you have written in capital that problem is that people are presuming that violence is from islamic terorrists (or people of muslim origin). I just think that if there was not such surge of that type of violence no-one would be presuming it

[Darkpriest]

I meant to write about machete guy yesterday but then thought that it don't belong here because he had fight with his girlfriend and killed her. That isn't terrorism but much more typical form of violence. And it don't even seem to be related on these new over million refugees that have arrived in Germany in past year as both machete wielding murderer and killed woman who was girlfriend of the killer were working in same restaurant.

 

Yeah, just read some update on this. Apparently this 27yo was in informal relationship with 45yo woman. Still it is mind blowing that the repetitive offender, known for assaults and thefts, including assaults with heavy dmg to the body, was granted an asylum and was not deported after first criminal acts like that. He had to kill a woman and injure two others to get arrested.

 

I suspected it might have not been a fanatic, since he allowed to arrest himself, but the point still stands. This is a criminal from ME living for our money.

[Varana]

In some cases, that's a bit of an hen-and-egg problem. If you're suicidal, and happen to be Muslim, Islamic extremism is a rather obvious direction to go for getting maximum attention. In all of those recent cases, the guy who did it was quite unhinged in the first place. Even in Munich, which - as far as we know - had nothing to do with religion or politics at all, people suspected Islamic terrorism, even going as far as fake-reporting "Allahu akbar" cries. If you want attention, this is a very easy way to get it, and if you're looking for easy answers to complex problems and personal issues, fundamentalism of your preferred ideology is an obvious choice.

 

Also, Islamic extremism has succeeded in what basically is creating a terrorism franchise. I don't think that something like that has existed before. The first to achieve this were probably al-Qaeda; now ISIS has eclipsed them both in outreach and on the extremism scale. Together with their sometimes quite professional presence in social and even classical media, ISIS managed to almost monopolise Islamic terrorism. For that reason, attacks that might have been seen as separate or only superficially linked contribute to a feeling of deliberate warfare, esp. as we're prone to look out for connections and causality. And ISIS would like us to think so - that way they have managed to get way, way more influential and to appear much larger than they actually are. That war exists, sure, but it's too easy to just file every similar case under the same general heading and assume that we're dealing with them in an appropriate manner if we're acting on sweeping generalisations.

 

That said, contemporary Islam has, of course, a serious problem with extremism and terror. But in today's atmosphere, with the demand for conclusive answers instantly from overwhelmed and underinformed journalists, with the echo chamber of social media, and the rise of the politics of fear and feelings (seriously, Colbert's "Trumpiness" is a brilliant analysis, not only of Trump), it's becoming increasingly difficult to actually look at things in context and perspective without being drowned out by the screaming and yelling from the sidelines.

 

We live in an unbelievably complex and interconnected world. Every time someone has an easy answer, you can bet he's dead wrong.

[Hassat Hunter]

Well, the guy in Munich was part Islamatic, and tried to murder strictly Turkish people, also Islamatic. So... the link isn't exactly that far away, even if it seems this time it wasn't anti-European aimed. Islamitic people hating Islamtic. Like... well... all over the middle-East. In Europe.

 

Also after many posts were made in the Nice topic about how they really are just a TINY minority, and are ALL *cough* mental patients, it does seem weird really mostly Islamitic mental-issues result in mass murder, while the far larger group of ethnic psychiatric patients doesn't seem to resort to that. I don't think actually being helped against it makes a difference, since helped and unhelped natives don't do stuff like this and pretty much all the people who did all these 4 attacks have had treatments in the past and guidance.

 

If the psychiatric help fails so much they become mass-murderers, why doesn't it fail that way more often in people that hold other or no religious beliefs?

[Hastur]

Apparently, Japan had multiple deaths at a mass stabbing at a home for disabled folks in or around Tokyo. Crazy world these days. ...Or maybe crazy again in areas that had been more or less stable for several decades.

[Varana]

What is "part Islamatic" supposed to mean?

 

As far as we know, religion didn't play any role in what he did. He also didn't "try to murder strictly Turkish people", that's just BS.

[Hassat Hunter]

He was bullied by Turkish so he murdered Turkish people his own age. That's what I read here anyway.

 

How is that not "try to murder strictly X" and clearly that does have religious undertones.