US Election 2016, part II

[BruceVC]

Is that why people like him? Because he fails at business, will bancrupt the US, is insane, likes to hang around David Duke, will authorize nuke strikes on the very country that he claims to love so much and make great again?

Mesgugger why do you think people like Trump ?

 

And many of his policies are idiotic  and wont benefit the USA at all, like the Trump Wall and his plans to deport 11 million people ....yes thats right, its all hyperbole, grandstanding  and false bravado

Edited May 22, 2016 by BruceVC

[Gfted1]

Wait, I thought Mexico was paying for the wall.

[Elerond]

Trump is interesting candidate for GOP as his proposed policies and public statements about things are actually quite opposite to what members of Tea Party preach. And I find it also bit amusing that what he says is many ways very close to what Sanders says, although his proposed measures are quite different. And Clinton is closest of those three when it comes to preserve classical "American way of life"

[BruceVC]

Wait, I thought Mexico was paying for the wall.

But this is my point, Trump keeps making these absurd comments and many of his supporters just believe it

 

 

Why would anyone conceivably believe Mexico would ever pay for this wall? 

Edited May 22, 2016 by BruceVC

[Gfted1]

His comment is specifically designed to elicit the response of: "I'll be tough on illegal immigration and I'll make em' pay for it too." I cant imagine anyone actually believes he can force Mexico to pay.

 

How was this handled in ye ole days? Why don't we just open up some Ellis Island-like facility on the border and process anyone that wants to immigrate? Legally. 

[Guard Dog]

You guys are putting entirely too much stock in what a Presidential candidate says. Suppose Trump were elected and wanted to build that wall. He has to get Congress to actually pass a bill and appropriate the money. And that is just the first step. The only way he can absolutely make that wall happen is if he takes his Home Depot card, a really big pickup truck and builds it himself.

 

Hillary is talking a good game about using executive action to make assault weapons illegal. Forget for a moment all other aspects of the gun control issue... if she actually made billions of dollars of privately owned goods illegal the very least that would happen is she is guaranteed to be a one term President. If she did so bypassing the congress, the only body that actually has the power to DO that, then she will have taken the US a very long step towards a dictatorship, something even the left leaning folks here would not want.

 

As for leaving the country because of the outcome of an election, grow up. There have been 44 Presidents of the United States. Quite a few of them have been s--t. They can't wreck the country because the office isn't all powerful. Although our current one has tried very hard to change that he's only moved the needle a little... too much IMO. But in a practical sense is the US really all that different after 7 years of Obama BS that it was under Bush BS? Everyone is forced to BUY health insurance now. The military is weaker, the foreign wars are still going on. There have been a few more on the way. Guantanamo is still open and we still go to work every day and pay the same bills we had seven years ago. The NYSE still trades everyday, the Patriots still cheat and the Kardashians still destroy every man they meet.

 

Stop putting so much stock in this crap. If you want to leave the country don't let the door hit your ass on the way out but don't do it thinking you are escaping some right wing corporate state or some left wing bananna republic. After four years of whichever of these two imbiciles gets elected if the country is different it will only be by degree.

[BruceVC]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/this-is-how-fascism-comes-to-america/2016/05/17/c4e32c58-1c47-11e6-8c7b-6931e66333e7_story.html

 

Guys here is  a powerful and evocative piece of commentary, I definitely agree with some of it...its deep but well worth reading 

[Guard Dog]

No it wasn't. It's screed disguised as an op ed. Ohhhh scary Trump is a strongman facist ohhhhhh vote for Hillary because it's who we are supporting anyway.

 

Even of Trump was everything they fear he is, the President of the US in NOT all powerful. Nor does anyone want them to be. If they have half a brain at least.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Guard Dog

[Guard Dog]

This is what I hate about the Washington Post. You can practicaly hear the contempt dripping from the writers words. Especially when he went out of his way to discuss the professions of the people in this piece. He is practially shouting "Who do these dirty peasants think they are?"

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2016/05/21/armed-with-guns-and-constitutions-the-patriot-movement-sees-america-under-threat/

[BruceVC]

No it wasn't. It's left wing screed disguised as an op ed. Ohhhh scary Trump is a strongman facist ohhhhhh vote for Hillary because it's who we are supporting anyway.

 

Even of Trump was everything they fear he is, the President of the US in NOT all powerful. Nor does anyone want them to be. If they have half a brain at least.

GD how much of this do you agree with 

 

 

"And the source of allegiance? We’re supposed to believe that Trump’s support stems from economic stagnation or dislocation. Maybe some of it does. But what Trump offers his followers are not economic remedies — his proposals change daily. What he offers is an attitude, an aura of crude strength and machismo, a boasting disrespect for the niceties of the democratic culture that he claims, and his followers believe, has produced national weakness and incompetence. His incoherent and contradictory utterances have one thing in common: They provoke and play on feelings of resentment and disdain, intermingled with bits of fear, hatred and anger. His public discourse consists of attacking or ridiculing a wide range of “others” — Muslims, Hispanics, women, Chinese, Mexicans, Europeans, Arabs, immigrants, refugees — whom he depicts either as threats or as objects of derision. His program, such as it is, consists chiefly of promises to get tough with foreigners and people of nonwhite complexion. He will deport them, bar them, get them to knuckle under, make them pay up or make them shut up. " 

[Guard Dog]

 

No it wasn't. It's left wing screed disguised as an op ed. Ohhhh scary Trump is a strongman facist ohhhhhh vote for Hillary because it's who we are supporting anyway.

 

Even of Trump was everything they fear he is, the President of the US in NOT all powerful. Nor does anyone want them to be. If they have half a brain at least.

GD how much of this do you agree with 

 

 

"And the source of allegiance? We’re supposed to believe that Trump’s support stems from economic stagnation or dislocation. Maybe some of it does. But what Trump offers his followers are not economic remedies — his proposals change daily. What he offers is an attitude, an aura of crude strength and machismo, a boasting disrespect for the niceties of the democratic culture that he claims, and his followers believe, has produced national weakness and incompetence. His incoherent and contradictory utterances have one thing in common: They provoke and play on feelings of resentment and disdain, intermingled with bits of fear, hatred and anger. His public discourse consists of attacking or ridiculing a wide range of “others” — Muslims, Hispanics, women, Chinese, Mexicans, Europeans, Arabs, immigrants, refugees — whom he depicts either as threats or as objects of derision. His program, such as it is, consists chiefly of promises to get tough with foreigners and people of nonwhite complexion. He will deport them, bar them, get them to knuckle under, make them pay up or make them shut up. " 

 

It is arrogant in the extreme to convince yourself  you know the mind and motivations of millions of people you have never met. It smacks of leftisim even though Kagan is by no means a left winger (yes Bruce I know who he is... I actally read the newspaper, several of them, everyday). It means he believes his political philosophy is so correct the only way this neophyte Trump could get so much support is by appealing to folks baser instincts and they are all such unsophisticated hayseed yahoos that they are suceptible to that.

 

Now it may be many of them do. But if they are voting for Trump under the belief he's going to deport everyone not from " "round herya " they are going to be disappointed. Now he can and will I believe go back to actually prosecuting people who cross the border illegally, like the other 205 countries on the planet do and like we did before Barry O stopped doing that. That is not a bad thing IMO.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Is that why people like him? Because he fails at business, will bancrupt the US, is insane, likes to hang around David Duke, will authorize nuke strikes on the very country that he claims to love so much and make great again?

 

I thought you were of the opinion that people, by and large, are idiots?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Believing you know motivations of millions "smacks of leftism"? So marketing is leftism now? The assumption of rationality is leftism? The human nature argument is leftism?

[Guard Dog]

Believing you know motivations of millions "smacks of leftism"? So marketing is leftism now? The assumption of rationality is leftism? The human nature argument is leftism?

My comment should not be construed as anything other than a repudiation of Robert Kagan's eliteist snobbery in that op-ed Bruce linked

[Meshugger]

 

Is that why people like him? Because he fails at business, will bancrupt the US, is insane, likes to hang around David Duke, will authorize nuke strikes on the very country that he claims to love so much and make great again?

 

I thought you were of the opinion that people, by and large, are idiots?

 

 

I was highlighting that the argument didn't contain the whole picture.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

Believing you know motivations of millions "smacks of leftism"? So marketing is leftism now? The assumption of rationality is leftism? The human nature argument is leftism?

My comment should not be construed as anything other than a repudiation of Robert Kagan's eliteist snobbery in that op-ed Bruce linked

 

We should know by now almost all of Bruce's arguments are as full of **** as a toilet after eating taco bell.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Believing you know motivations of millions "smacks of leftism"? So marketing is leftism now? The assumption of rationality is leftism? The human nature argument is leftism?

My comment should not be construed as anything other than a repudiation of Robert Kagan's eliteist snobbery in that op-ed Bruce linked

 

We should know by now almost all of Bruce's arguments are as full of **** as a toilet after eating taco bell.

 

No this is an exaggeration, sorry KP but I dismiss this post as nothing but "anti-BruceVC propaganda " 

 

 

[Meshugger]

This is what I hate about the Washington Post. You can practicaly hear the contempt dripping from the writers words. Especially when he went out of his way to discuss the professions of the people in this piece. He is practially shouting "Who do these dirty peasants think they are?"

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2016/05/21/armed-with-guns-and-constitutions-the-patriot-movement-sees-america-under-threat/

 

Yeah, totally different from what the press said about Bush, about Reagan, or about Nixon. Not at all that the whole word 'Fascism' is starting to lose all meaning.

 

 

 

Is that why people like him? Because he fails at business, will bancrupt the US, is insane, likes to hang around David Duke, will authorize nuke strikes on the very country that he claims to love so much and make great again?

Mesgugger why do you think people like Trump ?

 

And many of his policies are idiotic  and wont benefit the USA at all, like the Trump Wall and his plans to deport 11 million people ....yes thats right, its all hyperbole, grandstanding  and false bravado

 

 

I think that he is popular because he recognizes the same problems like Bernie and he also benefits from the position of being an outsider. He treats the election circus like the scam as it is and orchestrates it like WWF-fight: He goads each candidate who all simply cannot handle simple street banter who finally later implodes by their own incompetence and people like him for that. He baits the media on both Twitter and in interviews with the very kafka-traps of their own using, forcing them to recognize that he has a point and therefore emerging as the winner of the argument, and people like winners. To point, his strenght of being attracts a lot of people.

 

I also believe that he is popular because the white middle class has been slowly displaced, both culturally and politically the last twenty years and Trump just happens to be the right guy at the right time and place. The jobs of the avarage Joe is outsourced and the sudden change of demographics undermines the social cohesion and making people feel like strangers in their own communities where Trump, and Bernie to a degree, adresses that issue, of which the establishment has turned a blind eye to. 

 

There's the cultural aspect of forced diversity, third wave feminism, celebration of every other sexual orientation except normal heterosexuality, celebration of depravity and banality, celebration of victimhood and safe spaces which has simply left a cultural vacuum for people like Trump, who represents himself as positive, assertive, strongly masculine, pulling no punches and apologizes to no one. Pretty much like the video below: self-hatred and negative outlook is the current mantra and Trump is the opposition to that:

 

 

There's probably more, but that's what i have been getting so far. 

[Guard Dog]

 

This is what I hate about the Washington Post. You can practicaly hear the contempt dripping from the writers words. Especially when he went out of his way to discuss the professions of the people in this piece. He is practially shouting "Who do these dirty peasants think they are?"

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2016/05/21/armed-with-guns-and-constitutions-the-patriot-movement-sees-america-under-threat/

 

Yeah, totally different from what the press said about Bush, about Reagan, or about Nixon. Not at all that the whole word 'Fascism' is starting to lose all meaning.

 

 

 

 

 

The sad thing is once they start calling everything in opposition evil, how will everyone know real evil once it makes an appearence.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Guard Dog

[Volourn]

I remember in Kanada pre election people were calling  our ex PM a dictator... yet.. when he lost the election.. he went back to his old job and moved on his with his office.  So, yeah,  the hysteria is HILARIOUS. What kind of dictator does that? L0L

[Meshugger]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/we-must-weed-out-ignorant-americans-from-the-electorate/2016/05/20/f66b3e18-1c7a-11e6-8c7b-6931e66333e7_story.html

 

It's not the establishment who is out of touch, it is the voters. Hahaha, oh my, oh my.

[Oerwinde]

 

 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/poll-election-2016-shapes-up-as-a-contest-of-negatives/2016/05/21/8d4ccfd6-1ed3-11e6-b6e0-c53b7ef63b45_story.html

 

FivethirtyEight grades ABC News/Washington Post polls as an A-.

 

"Trust in handle immigration": Clinton 50% - Trump 44%

 

Tehehehe.

A lot of people fear that if Trump is elected that the USA will collapse.

What exactly do you mean? How?

Where to begin? How 'bout with the Mexico wall. I don't care how high you build a wall, people will get over it. The shear expense of building it could bankrupt our society while Trumps buddies collect millions from the contracts to build it. Next, Trump has FAILED at every business he has tried. He is still worth approximately what he inherited from Daddy. Such a record of failure gives me every reason to believe he will destroy the US economy. If you watch his interviews, he appears to me to be a very ignorant, or perhaps insane, man. That's already enough to scare the 'whatever' out of me. I watched an interview with him where the interviewer asked him what he thought about being endorsed by David Duke (Grand Dragon Emeritus of the KKK). Trump kept responding that he didn't know the man and has never done business with him. What difference does that make? If Trump is a closet Ayrian, that could destroy the USA. And having the "football" in his possession scares me to no end. He could, without authorization from anyone, launch a nuclear attack against any country, even Arizona (small chuckle). He would need to get us to def con 5 first, but that doesn't take much.

Trump has had 8% of his companies fail, the average for an entrepreneur is 80%. His net worth is 10 billion, and he started with 40 million. He said he would pay for the wall through increased border fees, temp visa fees, tariffs on goods not covered under NAFTA, etc. Not direct payments from mexico. Check out that Untruth about Donald Trump video. Contrasts media attention to his actual policies and statements.

[Sweet_Sadie]

Is that why people like him? Because he fails at business, will bancrupt the US, is insane, likes to hang around David Duke, will authorize nuke strikes on the very country that he claims to love so much and make great again?

Meshugger, I have no idea why people like him. I was merely answering a question you asked.

[Namutree]

You guys are putting entirely too much stock in what a Presidential candidate says. Suppose Trump were elected and wanted to build that wall. He has to get Congress to actually pass a bill and appropriate the money. And that is just the first step. The only way he can absolutely make that wall happen is if he takes his Home Depot card, a really big pickup truck and builds it himself.

He doesn't need congress to do squat. MEXICO WILL PAY FOR IT.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Actually Congress authorized the secure fence in 2006. Bush just never built it. As far as financing, they can use all the billions they're spending on illegal minors crossing and being allowed to stay.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Wrath of Dagon