Should the UK leave the EU?

[Meshugger]

Interesting as well that it was primarly the elderly that voted exit, while the young voted stay.

 

Seems pretty selfish that the old vote for a future their children don't want.

 

Children have forgotten to respect their elders. I guess they have to learn it the hard way now, don't they?

 

As for "establishment", all of City of London, including Soros and the Rothschilds and the ruling political class in the UK, and in Brussels were for remaining. If anything, this is the biggest middle finger to the establishment since punk music started back in the 70's.

[Chilloutman]

Nigel Farage disowns Vote Leave '£350m for the NHS' pledge hours after result. Funny.

 

 

 

Well, i thought better about you man...

 

I'd say "sorry to disappoint" if I was.

 

IMF says the recovery of the 2008 crisis will probably be undone by Britain's vote, as it predicts between 1-2% recession for all european countries. Thanks a lot, Brits.

 

 

so everyone who doesn't share your view is old, uneducated or poor smuck? good to know

 

 

That is not what I said and you know it. And for the record, I'm not exactly in great financial health myself.

 

mate what do you mean, you just type exactly that:

 

It is. The same thing will happen - the old, poor and uneducated schmucks will vote yes. And we have a lot of those, to the point that I was already seriously considering moving.

[Mamoulian War]

As far as I understand saying "Uneducated schmucks" != "All uneducated are schmucks"

[Gorth]

the UK  is in a unique position where it can leave the EU and it will survive but any EU member that uses the EURO as its currency will not be able to just leave the EU without serious and unprecedented economic consequences

Not so unique actually, the Danes are perfectl well aware that EU is a lobbyist paradise and a democratic graveyard... and they don't use the Euro anyway, so I wouldn't be surprised if at least critical voices aren't being raise, even if it wont get as far as leaving too.

 

 

Wanna bet, Putin is cackling with glee while rubbing his hands?

 

Watch this space for news about French and German peacekeepers being prepared to be deployed overseas to stabilise neighbouring regions that may fall apart (yeah, just kidding with the last bit here)

[Blarghagh]

I meant exactly what I said. The poor, old and uneducated schmucks will vote yes. Not "only" the poor etc. Not "everyone who votes yes will be the following: poor, etc." And in the context of this thread, where it was already stated that voter breakdown in the Brexit showed that the majority of "leave" voters were poor, uneducated and older you can already understand from that context that it doesn't even mean "all the poor, old etc.". It's clear enough that I can't take this as anything but a deliberate twisting of my words.

[Hiro Protagonist]

Damn White People are the cause of this.

 

edited: Removed any problems with language.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Hiro Protagonist
image circumvents language filter, turned into link

[Rosbjerg]

We get TN you're a bit bitter, but the whole "only a fool would..." argument is not really conductive to a good argument. Especially since there's obvious a large portion of well educated 'well offs' who voted against as well. Many in Europe want more transparency and more democracy and when the establishment again and again tell them that they are stupid for questioning what's being done with their votes... well that usually doesn't turn out that well.. for anyone.

 

We need to give up on the notion that 'our side' has all the answers - especially since that arrogance is a root cause (and symptom) of a lot of the political stagnation we've been seeing- if people are not willing to stand down and talk it over, then we'll see more and more radical demagogues finding their way into office.

 

 

edit:

But maybe we should listen critically to the old British Bulldog..

[BruceVC]

It's good to see at least that it has kicked the hornets nest here in DK, where the pro camp (which is the vast majority) is actually starting to look at and talk about the positive sides of EU, except just rehashing the same ol' and look more reflected at the critical side.

 

So thanks for that at least Britain

This is exactly the views and commitment I have been wanting to see from people living in the EU, there has not enough emphasis on the positive aspects of the EU

 

The right wing will focus on the negative and use hyperbole to generate fear mongering and gain support 

 

The EU will survive this but with the UK leaving now and the next 12 months or so of economic instability this is an excellent time for all people living in the EU to ask important questions like 

 

" Do I like the EU? "

" yes there are issues within the EU but its much better to be part of the EU than to be separated from " 

" I want to be part of the EU but I want some structural changes " 

 

But once again dont become despondent and think " now the UK has left the entire EU will collapse "

 

It will be  a much different outcome and result if the various right wing groups in the EU think now that BREXIT is done there own countries can  just leave the EU 

 

And this is a good thing for those that care about the EU

[Gorth]

None the less, those in favour of democracy and western ideals should be bouncing with joy that it's still alive and well. It was if anyhing democracy in action, even if you think the voters are all wrong.

 

Edit to add: For those not living in the UK, a participation rate of 70% is quite a bit, given that the most populous parts of Britain were inundated in rain, thunder storms and flooded areas in many areas (it took me 4 hours to get home from work yesterday, infrastructure completely knocked out by lightning and flash floods).

[Raithe]

Frankly, it comes down to a matter of trust. And the EU just hasn't had the appearance of transparency or trustworthiness to a lot of people in the UK.

The Remain campaign never tried to answer those questions, and the Leave campaign tended to be equally schmucky.

[Blarghagh]

I didn't say only a fool would. That's the whole point of my last post.

 

Either way, if I did think that I should be able to say it. I'm tired of politics being determined by not being able to tell the truth. If I compare Wilders to Hitler it's because there are clear points where the comparison works, but oh no, Godwin's Law! How dare you, that's insulting! You're arrogant and will work people against you! Boohoo, I am not a politician. The far right keeps getting away with being offended over rightfully being called insane racists for some reason despite it being patently true and it makes no sense to me.

[BruceVC]

Damn White People are the cause of this.

 

 

 This BREXIT outcome  has very little to do with racism and the fact the citizens of the UK are bigots. I reject that completely 

 

I find these types of Twitter comments come from people who are ignorant and prefer  making false characterizations or assuming the BREXIT is all about issues like immigration, this is only part of it

[Rosbjerg]

If I compare Wilders to Hitler it's because there are clear points where the comparison works, but oh no, Godwin's Law! How dare you, that's insulting! You're arrogant and will work people against you! Boohoo, I am not a politician. The far right keeps getting away with being offended over rightfully being called insane racists for some reason despite it being patently true and it makes no sense to me.

 

That's because it isn't a fair comparison - there are plenty of ways to shoot down his arguments rather than always appealing to the vilified past.

A guy wanting to close his borders and kick out a religious minority is very clearly a bigot, but being a bigot is pretty far from being a radical fascists that will start a genocide first chance he gets.

 

Cry wolf and all that.. What do we do when the real facists come? Because they are coming and it's a little easier for them each time we call a bigot a fascist.

[HoonDing]

The golden age of populism.

[Mamoulian War]

https://twitter.com/JillFilipovic/status/746226435891724288

 

Can some english person say more info about this?

[HoonDing]

He'll get away with it.

 

Also, pretty lady.

[Blarghagh]

 

If I compare Wilders to Hitler it's because there are clear points where the comparison works, but oh no, Godwin's Law! How dare you, that's insulting! You're arrogant and will work people against you! Boohoo, I am not a politician. The far right keeps getting away with being offended over rightfully being called insane racists for some reason despite it being patently true and it makes no sense to me.

 

That's because it isn't a fair comparison - there are plenty of ways to shoot down his arguments rather than always appealing to the vilified past.

A guy wanting to close his borders and kick out a religious minority is very clearly a bigot, but being a bigot is pretty far from being a radical fascists that will start a genocide first chance he gets.

 

Cry wolf and all that.. What do we do when the real facists come? Because they are coming and it's a little easier for them each time we call a bigot a fascist.

 

No, a guy whose platform is to blame a country's social and financial woes on a religious minority to spread fear in a bid to rise to power isn't analogous to the career of Adolf Hitler at all, to the point that the rest of his platform can charitably be described as being a national-socialist. His election program included the requirement of ethnic registration and disallowing people with double nationalities from participating in dutch government in any way, shape or form knowing full well some countries (such as Morocco) won't even allow people to renounce their nationality, effectively making that rule mean "if you're Moroccan (or other double nationality that disallows renounciation most of which are conveniently Muslim)"! But somehow it's untoward to acknowledge this. I feel like the fact that we recognize the truth of this statement in private if not in public is the only reason his rise to power wasn't meteoric and why we don't have camps filled with arabs right now. Make no mistake, I am not exaggerating his bigotry as fascism. I am pointing out actual fascism, at least by dictionary definition of fascism as authoritarian nationalism.

Edited June 24, 2016 by TrueNeutral

[BruceVC]

https://twitter.com/JillFilipovic/status/746226435891724288

 

Can some english person say more info about this?

Her comments are annoying and uninformed 

 

Who is she anyway? She thinks it will be great when Trump becomes president because there will be a WW3?

 

Mam  just ignore her and the anti-UK comments, did you read some of the views from people supporting her, the degree of invective and anti-Western sentiment never ceases to amaze me 

[Chilloutman]

 

 

If I compare Wilders to Hitler it's because there are clear points where the comparison works, but oh no, Godwin's Law! How dare you, that's insulting! You're arrogant and will work people against you! Boohoo, I am not a politician. The far right keeps getting away with being offended over rightfully being called insane racists for some reason despite it being patently true and it makes no sense to me.

 

That's because it isn't a fair comparison - there are plenty of ways to shoot down his arguments rather than always appealing to the vilified past.

A guy wanting to close his borders and kick out a religious minority is very clearly a bigot, but being a bigot is pretty far from being a radical fascists that will start a genocide first chance he gets.

 

Cry wolf and all that.. What do we do when the real facists come? Because they are coming and it's a little easier for them each time we call a bigot a fascist.

 

No, a guy whose platform is to blame a country's social and financial woes on a religious minority to spread fear in a bid to rise to power isn't analogous to the career of Adolf Hitler at all, to the point that the rest of his platform can charitably be described as being a national-socialist. His election program included the requirement of ethnic registration and disallowing people with double nationalities from participating in dutch government in any way, shape or form knowing full well some countries (such as Morocco) won't even allow people to renounce their nationality, effectively making that rule mean "if you're Moroccan (or other double nationality that disallows renounciation most of which are conveniently Muslim)"! But somehow it's untoward to acknowledge this. I feel like the fact that we recognize the truth of this statement in private if not in public is the only reason his rise to power wasn't meteoric and why we don't have camps filled with arabs right now. Make no mistake, I am not exaggerating his bigotry as fascism. I am pointing out actual fascism, at least by dictionary definition of fascism as authoritarian nationalism.

 

 

I dont remember Jews shooting original population in name of their god. Hitler was ****, but he used race card to get funding from jews for his military campaign, Noone will get monies from muslim population which is kinda poor and a lot of time live from state benefits in EU

Edited June 24, 2016 by Gorth
Circumventing language filter

[Blarghagh]

Yes, in a comparison Wilders comes off better, but so do most people and it doesn't remove the serious and alarming similarities. And I'm not talking the bad haircuts.

 

Fun fact: Great Britain has already lost more money than they would have gained from not paying the EU. Cheers.

Edited June 24, 2016 by TrueNeutral

[Chilloutman]

Yes, in a comparison Wilders comes off better, but so do most people and it doesn't remove the serious and alarming similarities. And I'm not talking the bad haircuts.

 

Well its that strange notion that after WWII and what Hitler did no one is allowed to be nationalist - because Hitler. Strange that noone have problem with socialists because Stalin

[Mamoulian War]

 

Yes, in a comparison Wilders comes off better, but so do most people and it doesn't remove the serious and alarming similarities. And I'm not talking the bad haircuts.

 

Well its that strange notion that after WWII and what Hitler did no one is allowed to be nationalist - because Hitler. Strange that noone have problem with socialists because Stalin

 

 

Maybe because Stalin was not socialist

[Chilloutman]

 

 

Yes, in a comparison Wilders comes off better, but so do most people and it doesn't remove the serious and alarming similarities. And I'm not talking the bad haircuts.

 

Well its that strange notion that after WWII and what Hitler did no one is allowed to be nationalist - because Hitler. Strange that noone have problem with socialists because Stalin

 

 

Maybe because Stalin was not socialist

 

 

And Wilders is not Nazi 

[Blarghagh]

In addition to what Mam said there, people certainly do have that problem with socialists. Especially in the US socialism is still a dirty word in many circles.

 

EDIT: I didn't call him a Nazi, which would be a pointless label anyway. I did give lots of similarities with one, though, and called him a fascist.

 

EDIT EDIT: To be fair, I did say his platform could consider national-socialist, as in socialist in favour only of those he believes should be part of the nation ('real' dutch people). So in a way, that would make him a Nazi in the terms of Nazi being an abbreviated form a national-socialist, but I think we all know Nazi means something different now.

Edited June 24, 2016 by TrueNeutral

[BruceVC]

http://news.sky.com/story/1716537/ftse-100-plunges-by-120bn-after-brexit

 

Guys here is some accurate economic insight around the short term consequences of the BREXIT

 

But remember this is mostly due to global economic uncertainty, the FTSE  will recover once things stabilize