Help me create Ruck the Dwarf Paladin he has to have great cardio!

[Torm51]

Ok so I know Con is a very bleh stat for Paladins and can be left at 10. But I want to make a Dwarf with high Con (mountain i know even more useless) because DWARF! When I mean high Con I mean 15+ so that's the lowest we can go. What type of build can be successful? This is what I was thinking. Even with a 16 or 15 Con you can make a tough front line tank/alpha striker with a big two hander that gets in the way of mobs by tanking with a 2handed sword or sword and shield  He can also be a good Marker with Coordinated Attacks and a Marking/disorienting weapon. What do you guys think of this. Oh and no massive power gamer stat dumping. Dumping a little bit is ok but no 3 or 4s.

Might: 15 (Might, hitting Harder, Fort defense and Endurance Heals)

Con: 16 (Mandatory high Con for the build could leave at 15 and get 16 Might cause might is way better but remember..Con DWARF! Great Fort Def on this guy)

Dex: 9

Per: 10 (for alpha striking with FoD and its +20 ACC plus, sworn enemy, ZF and a weapon focus +Priest Buffs you don't need the Per plus cause of Con I am running out of points lol )

Int: 13 (For LoH, decent auras, its good enough for Pallegina so it works at 13 INT and longer lasting Sworn Enemy)

Res: 15 (I am not fast and getting interrupted with a 2hander or sword and shield sucks also adds +5 Deflection)

Paladin order: Kind Wayfarers

Build:

1:Flames of Devotion (Alpha Striking)

2. Sword and the Shepherd (strange mercy is better but with 9 Dex and weapon and shield style or a 2 hander killing blows will be tough to get)

3. Zealous Focus (PoTD/ ToI ACC is king for me)

4. Weapon and shield style

5. Lay on Hands

6. Weapon Focus

7. Sworn Enemy

8. Vulnerable Attack

9. Corrdinated Attacks (using a marking weapon with zealous focus this + 26 ACC for closest melee dps. Not as much as a Darcozzi with Inspiring Liberation but still a lot) OR should I forgo marking type character on this guy.  Grab a two hander stand just get in the way, tank and increase attack speed through Sanguine Plate?

10. Deep Faith

11. Aegis of Loyalty

12. Greater LoH/Two Handed Style

13. Sacred Immolation

14 Scion of Flame (more small Endurance heals along with Sword and the Shepherd and AEO damage)

15. Righteous Soul.

16. Not sure.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Torm51

[Boeroer]

Nowadays Mountan Dwarfs are not useless because OBS put nearly all effects that do corrode damage or cause sickened or weakened into the "Poison" or "Disease" category. Which means that mountain dwarfs now have higher defenses against a lot of very annoying spells and abilities. Think of vessels and such.

 

In fact, I recently built a mountain dwarf wizard tank with constant 232 defense against poison and disease who also has over 30 DR against corrode damage. What for? He's just standing in the middle of the fight and casts Noxious Burst and Malignant Cloud on himself.

[Torm51]

Wow I didn't know that was changed.  That if awesome!  How about the Masters Breath..its Corrode damange...probably not lol but they are damn good probably against Cean Gwla's melee attacks are Corrode.  Bor help me out man!  You have always been the build champion.  I know this high Con build isn't perfect but how do you think I can make it work?  I think how its stated above maybe.  Whats your guys opinions!

[MaxQuest]

When I mean high Con I mean 15+ so that's the lowest we can go. What type of build can be successful?

So far, only two ways do come in mind:

- either you get high Con to make him a main tank. A study fellow who will tank the dragons for you. With high fortitude and reflex. Resolve can be lowered to 10. And tbh you won't be missing those 5 deflection that much.

- or you try to workaround some low defenses and capitalize on pain link and retaliation items.

[Torm51]

 

When I mean high Con I mean 15+ so that's the lowest we can go. What type of build can be successful?

So far, only two ways do come in mind:

- either you get high Con to make him a main tank. A study fellow who will tank the dragons for you. With high fortitude and reflex. Resolve can be lowered to 10. And tbh you won't be missing those 5 deflection that much.

- or you try to workaround some low defenses and capitalize on pain link and retaliation items.

 

Ya getting interrupted sucks but people make DPS chars here with 10 Resolve with no issues.  thing is they are usually either duel wielders so they attack fast or are ranged.  That's what I have the resolve for.  With FoD a 2hander and Sworn Enemy you don't think I can turn him into a good alpha striker?

 

I will say that my first PotD TOI was with a support type Paladin that had 12 might and he still rocked enemies with FoD. regular hits of +70 with FoD.  FoD itself gets a really strong leash so it does a lot of damage even before might.  But ya maybe I should just make a support sturdy tank with a high Con.  Like I said I took the Res for the concentration I know with the Paladins Faith and Conviction I will not be missing that +5 Def.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Torm51

[MaxQuest]

With FoD a 2hander and Sworn Enemy you don't think I can turn him into a good alpha striker?

Viable? Yes. Optimal? Not sure...

There are only two FoD attacks per encounter. This makes you want to use the slowest and the hardest-hitting weapons. Specifically arquebuses or at least pistols/arbalests.

Actually you could use these weapons while standing in the frontline too and target the far standing ranged enemies, who tend to have lower deflection and lower fortitude (which is handy in case you will choose arbalests)

 

So a variant could be: a frontline paladin with hard-hitting reloading weapons, who has high Con to compensate for the lack of shield (in easy-medium) encounters, who makes great use of FoD alpha-striking. And who is switching to 1h+shield tanking during boss encounters. High fort and reflex (i.e. high Con, Might and Dex) do greatly help at that.

 

Although you'll have to monitor how does AI behave in the absence of disengagement penalty.

 

I am not fast and getting interrupted with a 2hander or sword and shield sucks

Btw, you have mentioned several times that you like resolve for the provided concentration. But could you elaborate on why does the weapon speed matter? Edited May 3, 2016 by MaxQuest

[Torm51]

 

With FoD a 2hander and Sworn Enemy you don't think I can turn him into a good alpha striker?

Viable? Yes. Optimal? Not sure...

There are only two FoD attacks per encounter. This makes you want to use the slowest and the hardest-hitting weapons. Specifically arquebuses or at least pistols/arbalests.

Actually you could use these weapons while standing in the frontline too and target the far standing ranged enemies, who tend to have lower deflection and lower fortitude (which is handy in case you will choose arbalests)

 

So a variant could be: a frontline paladin with hard-hitting reloading weapons, who has high Con to compensate for the lack of shield (in easy-medium) encounters, who makes great use of FoD alpha-striking. And who is switching to 1h+shield tanking during boss encounters. High fort and reflex (i.e. high Con, Might and Dex) do greatly help at that.

 

Agreed. hmmmmmmm.  Its definitely not Optimal hah but I know with a slow weapon he can still crush mages and the like.  Again I have done it on a 12 might Paladin.  In fact that same 12 Might Paladin was critting the Alpine Dragon for 120 + damage and he didn't even have Sworn Enemy.  Just FoD.  Lit that guy up on PoTD like a Christmas tree.  Granted Paladins are great against the Alpine Dragon cause of Fire weakness.  Not so good against the Master Below as far as fire damage goes cause of immunity.

[Boeroer]

I always try to exploit things by tanking them to he max - so I recently tried to take CON to the max with the Iron Circle (ring, +4 CON) and duplicated Whispers of Yenwood (+4 CON). As a Mountain Dwarf you can get 20 CON from the start - so you will end up with 28 CON permanent (25 very early in the game). You could add those MC talents that give you either max endurance/health (Gift from the Machine) or CON+2 (Effigy's Resentment: Durance and Rymrgand's Boon). Then rest a Caed Nua for another +3, sleep with the dwarven prostitute (+2) and eat some Pearlwood chicken for a total CON of 37. Then put on the Sanguine Plate and catch a crit for a total CON of 41. That's +155% or your original endurance and health (or *2.55 in other words). This is extremely helpful on characters who either use lower deflection but regenerate a lot (with Shod in Faith, Regeneration from Veteran's Recovery and so on). Normally those guys run into health issues - but not with those CON stats. If you also take a good amount of MIG and INT your endurance and health pool will be enormous. You can really feel the difference in combat. This guy won't go down easily, even without any healing. And of course he will have the most awesome fortitude defense. So getting paralyzed, petrified, prone and such won't be big poblems. I used a barbarian for this (for obvious reasons: he has the biggest endurance und health pool in the game, so the *2.55 will net in very, very high numbers) and made him a spirit and vessel slayer (Bartender's Ring, Spirit Bane, Sanctifier and so on - it fits with the Whispers which are also Spirit Slaying) - but I think also a paladin can profit from very high CON. He can use all the LoH for other party members - he might not need them. And FoD is a Full Attack, so the dual Whispers of Yenwood might be ok for a paladin, too. But I think it's also no problem to use a shield and a single Whispers of Yenwood. That's only 2 CON less and more defenses - especially with Outworn Buckler.

 

With dual wielding and Sanguine Plate the dps is also good. Not "Oh my God" but good. With Gauntlets of Swift Action and Durgan Steel you can reach 0 recovery. And he's tanky enough because of all the end/health to survive without shield. I would say Strange Mercy will also work that way. And once they fix the Gridle of the Driving Wave (so it also gives you a Full Attack Knockdown) you could have another Full Attack with CC on top of your 2 FoD strikes.

 

So you see I'm a bit of a CON fanboy at the moment...

 

And I can tell you: a mountain dwarf with that head model with the reddish eyes plus Sanguine Plate (plus helmet) and dual Whispers of Yenwood (they glow red) just looks... EVIL!

Edited May 3, 2016 by Boeroer

[Torm51]

 

With FoD a 2hander and Sworn Enemy you don't think I can turn him into a good alpha striker?

Viable? Yes. Optimal? Not sure...

There are only two FoD attacks per encounter. This makes you want to use the slowest and the hardest-hitting weapons. Specifically arquebuses or at least pistols/arbalests.

Actually you could use these weapons while standing in the frontline too and target the far standing ranged enemies, who tend to have lower deflection and lower fortitude (which is handy in case you will choose arbalests)

 

So a variant could be: a frontline paladin with hard-hitting reloading weapons, who has high Con to compensate for the lack of shield (in easy-medium) encounters, who makes great use of FoD alpha-striking. And who is switching to 1h+shield tanking during boss encounters. High fort and reflex (i.e. high Con, Might and Dex) do greatly help at that.

 

Although you'll have to monitor how does AI behave in the absence of disengagement penalty.

 

I am not fast and getting interrupted with a 2hander or sword and shield sucks

Btw, you have mentioned several times that you like resolve for the provided concentration. But could you elaborate on why does the weapon speed matter?

 

well he already hits slow not really weapon speed but the fact that at 9 Dex and in plate he doesn't hit very fast.  Getting interrupted is annoying lol.

 

 

I always try to exploit things by tanking them to he max - so I recently tried to take CON to the max with the Iron Cirlce (ring, +4 CON) and duplicated Whispers of Yenwood (+4 CON). As a Mountain Dwarf you can get 20 CON from the start - so you will end up with 28 CON permanent (25 very early in the game). You could add those MC talents that give you either max endurance/health (Gift from the Machine) or CON+2 (Effigy's Resentment: Durance and Rymrgand's Boon). Then rest a Caed Nua for anopther +3, sleep with the dwarven prostitute (+2) and eat some Pearlwood chicken for a total CON of 37. Then put on the Sanguine Plate and cathc a crit for a total CON of 41. That's 155% or you original endurance and health. Or times 2.55 in other words. This is extremely helpful on characters who either use lower deflection but regenerate a lot (Shod in Faith, Regeneration from Veteran's Recovery and so on). Normally those guys run into health issues - but not with those CON stats. If you also take a good amount of MIG and INT your endurance and health pool will be enormous. You can really feel the difference in combat. This guy won't go down easily. And of course he will have the most awesome fortitude defense. So getting paralyzed, petrified, prone and such won't be big poblems. I used a barbarian for this (for obvious reasons: he has the biggest endurance und health pool in the game, so the *2.55 will net in very, very high numbers) and made him a spirit and vessel slayer (bartender's ring, Spirit Bane, Sanctifier and so on) - but I think also a paladin can profit from very high CON. He can use all the LoH for other party members - he might not need them. And FoD is a Full Attack, so the dual Whispers of Yenwood might be ok for a paladin, too. But I think it's also no problem to use a shield and a single Whispers of Yenwood. That's only 2 CON less and more defenses - especially with Outworn Buckler.

 

So you see I'm a bit of a CON fanboy at the moment...

Dude me too!  That's Why I wanted a Mountain Dwarf Paladin (cause you know its me I always play Paladin as the MC) with massive CON!  Doesn't get more Dwarf then that man!

[Torm51]

Suggestions on the Paladin Order?  I could do the FO build even with these stats.  or go Kind Wayfarer with FoD type support heals.  Issue is you wont get FULL Con because well you cant sacrifice Durance or Gift of the Machine without getting penalized and well that's dump RP lol A paladin who loves life/is a good guy that does these heinous acts lmao.  That would leave Goldpact or Bleak Walker.  Or I could just not take those two points in Con I would still have one hell of a Con.  But in the spirit of a having the highest Con possible with a Dwarf I might have to do one of the two orders I just mentioned.

[KDubya]

I'd drop Resolve to 10.

 

Then get everything to a 10, make Might, Con and Int a 15 and have 3 extra points to put wherever. Since you are going Kind Wayfarer maybe go with an 18 Might. Could even drop Intellect a little to 13 and get a 20 Might. I've gone with a 10 intellect Kind Wayfarer before and had no issues but I also had Pellaginna on the team.

 

If you went all in you could go:

Might - 18 or 15

Con - 20 or 18

Dex - 10

Per - 10

Int  - 10 or 15

Res - 10

 

After using Juggernaut 3.0 with an effective Constitution of 25 I really like the huge health pool of high con builds. A few points of deflection do not add survivability like an extra 25% of health. Plus the extra health works against all attacks.

 

If you have two Paladins you can get Reinforcing Exhortation and start each battle buffing the other Paladin for an extra +25 deflection. Lets you go with big two handers and still have good deflection.

[Torm51]

I'd drop Resolve to 10.

 

Then get everything to a 10, make Might, Con and Int a 15 and have 3 extra points to put wherever. Since you are going Kind Wayfarer maybe go with an 18 Might. Could even drop Intellect a little to 13 and get a 20 Might. I've gone with a 10 intellect Kind Wayfarer before and had no issues but I also had Pellaginna on the team.

 

If you went all in you could go:

Might - 18 or 15

Con - 20 or 18

Dex - 10

Per - 10

Int  - 10 or 15

Res - 10

 

After using Juggernaut 3.0 with an effective Constitution of 25 I really like the huge health pool of high con builds. A few points of deflection do not add survivability like an extra 25% of health. Plus the extra health works against all attacks.

 

If you have two Paladins you can get Reinforcing Exhortation and start each battle buffing the other Paladin for an extra +25 deflection. Lets you go with big two handers and still have good deflection.

What do you think of going Bleak Walker or Goldpact Knight for the extra two Con.  Maybe its just an aesthetics thing?  I know its just two Con lmao

[MaxQuest]

well he already hits slow not really weapon speed but the fact that at 9 Dex and in plate he doesn't hit very fast.  Getting interrupted is annoying lol.

Well, statistically he might get interrupted once on a slow attack, or thrice on fast attacks that are three times faster.

 

Another thing to consider: plate doesn't hinder dps of reloading weapons that much. And you could up DEX to 14 at the expense of Resolve.

 

---

Btw, anyone knows how does interruption work exactly?

I was under impression that when you get interrupted, a quick interruption animation is played. If you was going through attack phase you will have to start over again. If you was mid-recovery, you continue further. In any case the recovery duration is getting increased as interruption duration (those 0.5, 0.75 numbers from weapons) are appended to it's end.

Or it's not so?

 

---

Btw, I do like Boeror's suggestion for going DW in order to capitalize on FoD attacks. Two average melee weapons will provide dmg close to that of an arquebuss (depending on target DRs), on the full attacks.

Double Whispers, double Resolutions, double Bittercuts or Shatterstar + Strikehard/Godansthunyr (for dwarf thematics) could work really well for that.

Edited May 3, 2016 by MaxQuest

[Boeroer]

Just made a lvl 16 mountain dwarf hireling Kind Wayfarer paladin like I said above. Gave him the MC talents via console. Faith and Conviction is that of a hireling.

 

Stats with above talents, without Frenzy and with Perlwood Chicken (forgot prostitude):

Endurance: 606

Health: 2835

Deflection: 81

Fort: 162

Refl.: 82

Will: 94

 

MIG: 22 (26 with Frenzy)

CON 35 (39 with Frenzy)

DEX: 02

PER: 10

INT: 16

RES: 10

 

Did the Yenwood fight solo. No problem whatsoever. After Frenzy expires he gets slow - but not as slow as you would think with DEX2. Against casters does solid 40 to 50 damage hits, not so great against high DR foes (MIN damage most of the time). Against spirits he's great (+70% damage on top of MIG and exceptional bonus because of sword enchantment, Ghost Hunter and Bartender's Ring). And he refuses to die... Had Shod-in-Faith though. But no Veteran's Recovery.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

That's without Frenzy

 

It's a great endurance and health pool - but no competition to a barb or monk with such high CON values of course.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Boeroer

[KDubya]

 

I'd drop Resolve to 10.

 

Then get everything to a 10, make Might, Con and Int a 15 and have 3 extra points to put wherever. Since you are going Kind Wayfarer maybe go with an 18 Might. Could even drop Intellect a little to 13 and get a 20 Might. I've gone with a 10 intellect Kind Wayfarer before and had no issues but I also had Pellaginna on the team.

 

If you went all in you could go:

Might - 18 or 15

Con - 20 or 18

Dex - 10

Per - 10

Int  - 10 or 15

Res - 10

 

After using Juggernaut 3.0 with an effective Constitution of 25 I really like the huge health pool of high con builds. A few points of deflection do not add survivability like an extra 25% of health. Plus the extra health works against all attacks.

 

If you have two Paladins you can get Reinforcing Exhortation and start each battle buffing the other Paladin for an extra +25 deflection. Lets you go with big two handers and still have good deflection.

What do you think of going Bleak Walker or Goldpact Knight for the extra two Con.  Maybe its just an aesthetics thing?  I know its just two Con lmao

 

 

I always wanted to go with a Goldpact, the whole mercenary thing and all. Be like Angel Eyes and always see a contract through.

 

Dual wielding Sabres with Vent Pick and unlabored blade on switch. Go for zero recovery with a big 50% DoT on the FoD hits. Or do the Yenwood swords like Boereor.

 

Plus you could do Gift of the machine and sacrifice Durance to get +1 Might, +1 Con and +10% endurance (effectively a total of +3 con)

[Torm51]

Duel Wield is definitely better for this type of build I think for when I am doing damage and not tanking as he is SLOW so the two weapon fighting helps a lot....

 

I am not sure why I hamstring myself this way but I have always thought of DW is not very Paladinish lmao!!! Of course using a two hander as my damage weapon would be worse dps then DW I am assuming since I am slow.  Two Handers are slow making the issue worse.  Using a two hander will definitely be better against high DR bosses after they are CCed/debuffed effectively and I can take my shield off for a minute. 

 

I think I am doing to have to break out of shell here.  This PoE not D and D dammit!  and DW does fit this type of build better.  

 

PS has anyone done the actual math for the Enduring Flames talent  how much % of the damage you do is the dot??  That with dot with Tidefall could hurt a lot even against high DR bosses (unless they are fire immune looking at you Adra Dragon)

Edited May 3, 2016 by Torm51

[MaxQuest]

but I have always thought of DW is not very Paladinish lmao!!!

Who cares. I would consider even a wand barbarian aka ferocious fairy, if it would proc carnage 

[Blunderboss]

Use Tempered Helm on paladins with on Kill abilities , has the looks and the stats .

 

Also im certain paladin with Arquebus cant compare to paladin with Firebrand in terms of burst with FoD , atleast not until you make that arquebus legendary or something . 

Edited May 3, 2016 by Blunderboss

[Torm51]

 

but I have always thought of DW is not very Paladinish lmao!!!

Who cares. I would consider even a wand barbarian aka ferocious fairy, if it would proc carnage 

 

agreed I can be a semi RP Jack ass sometimes.  I am meta player stuck in a RP players body.  Also yes tempered helm with DW on this build could definitely wreck.  This is turning into a Blood Thirsty Duel Wielding Berserker Paladin with a crap ton of End and HP who can tank well lol.  Fits the Dwarf no doubt.  Kind of Like the Paladin version of a Mountain King if you every played Warcraft.

[Torm51]

 

 

but I have always thought of DW is not very Paladinish lmao!!!

Who cares. I would consider even a wand barbarian aka ferocious fairy, if it would proc carnage 

 

agreed I can be a semi RP Jack ass sometimes.  I am meta player stuck in a RP players body.  Also yes tempered helm with DW on this build could definitely wreck.  This is turning into a Blood Thirsty Duel Wielding Berserker Paladin with a crap ton of End and HP who can tank well lol.  Fits the Dwarf no doubt.  Kind of Like the Paladin version of a Mountain King if you every played Warcraft.

 

Maybe I can fit Outlanders Fury into this....wow cross classing a Paladin and Duel Wielding now I am really going out of shell lmfao.

[Blunderboss]

 

 

 

but I have always thought of DW is not very Paladinish lmao!!!

Who cares. I would consider even a wand barbarian aka ferocious fairy, if it would proc carnage 

 

agreed I can be a semi RP Jack ass sometimes.  I am meta player stuck in a RP players body.  Also yes tempered helm with DW on this build could definitely wreck.  This is turning into a Blood Thirsty Duel Wielding Berserker Paladin with a crap ton of End and HP who can tank well lol.  Fits the Dwarf no doubt.  Kind of Like the Paladin version of a Mountain King if you every played Warcraft.

 

Maybe I can fit Outlanders Fury into this....wow cross classing a Paladin and Duel Wielding now I am really going out of shell lmfao.

 

Use Sanguine Plate for early game and then DAoM potion with soulbound armor instead of wasting talent on outlanders frenzy , Sanguine Plate will also give +4might+4con and is twice per encounter just way way better than outlanders frenzy 

Edited May 3, 2016 by Blunderboss

[Torm51]

Ya I know.  I just figured since I need to take a Crit and with my tanking duties that  I will have when not going for damage I will not get the best use out of it.  Even while I am duel wielding with Faith and Conviction I wont take as many crits as say a DPS monk or DPS fighter.  But ya the potions as well.

 

PS PS now a good question...at level one do I take FoD or LoH.  I am probably going to go for Goldpact Knights or Bleak Walker for max Con on this guy neither have LoH talents but they do for FoD.  LoH is a great heal throughout the game and really good in Raedrics fight which I will do if I am a Bleak Walker and will not do if I go Goldpact lol.  It will take this Paladin sometime to be doing acceptable damage.  Around level 7 when I get Sworn Enemy so I was thinking LoH...thoughts?  I will take Zealous Focus at 3 and FoD at five.  I could take FoD at 3 but I usually go with the aura at 3.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Torm51

[Blunderboss]

Go Bleak Walker , Duplicate Bittercut , have a fun time .

You can refer to this build i used , and written up also you can safely Dump RES for higher CON it will balance itself out 

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/85885-class-build-bleak-walker-melee-dw-paladin-monster/

[Blades of Vanatar]

Torn - RP wise ya gotta wield Axe or Hammer with shield and max Con at the start. If you're going all out Dwarf don't wuss out and only go 15 Con. Take it to the max. I have done a similar Con max with Boerer's Engineer build. He was a bastion who handled all comers.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Blades of Vanatar