Greenstone Staff - levelling tip

[Ichthyic]

If you are playing POTD when you grab this staff.... you might have some problems with the part where you are supposed to level it by "killing blights", since almost all of the blights you run into in WM are immune to blunt.

so here's the tip:

bring a druid.

during combat, have the druid cast the spell "minor blight".

whoever has the greenstone staff can then target the minor blight and kill it with the staff.  bonus- it won't even fight back.  Repeat 5 times, done (yes, you can do this in a single combat even).

the only tricky part is you need to lock down something in combat to keep the combat going until you can kill the summoned blight(s).

suggest finding a single enemy target, or one that is left at the end of group combat, then just keep it paralyzed or otherwise immobile (scrolls, fetid caress, cipher, knockdowns, whatever) while your druid does his summons.


turns out to be the easiest leveling chore of any weapon.


 

[KDubya]

I like to save the Endless Paths for powering up soulbounds. There are large groups of vessels for the Redeemer sword and an entire level of blights. There are even big groups of beetles there. Even the large packs of Xaurips serve for some of the big kill count weapons

[Crucis]

I picked up the Unlabored Blade and decided to go through the upgrade process with my recently completed party.  And after completing the 3 stages of it, I was seriously worried that I wouldn't have enough enemies left in the game to get it fully upgraded.  And I was about to just put it aside and forget about it, when it occurred to me to go on a hunting trip across the Dyrwood.  Basically, I went all around some of the maps around Dyrford area looking for animals to kill.  Dear, bears, boars, whatever.  And that got me about 2/3'd of the way to the 1500 damage.  Then I went to the gorge and totally lucked out.  There was a group of puddings and spores that I'd somehow missed, so I had Devil take them all on 1v1 ... And because he was immune to being confused, she could just wade into them, ignoring the spores, while the rest of my party just laid back and cheered her on, until I saw that she'd gotten the 1500 damage needed, at which point the rest of my party joined in to get the battle over with sooner.

 

I did this before going to the monk abbey.  And honestly, I don't know if she could have gotten it done there, because the process of getting the 1500 damage needed in that final stage using a weapon that's got a -8 accuracy and -33% damage penalty would have been painful.  Possibly making Devil nearly useless against the monks.  But using a weapon with those penalties against Bambi, Yogi, and friends was a lot easier, even if it was a little hard on the wildlife population of the wilderness around Dyrford.

[Crucis]

I like to save the Endless Paths for powering up soulbounds. There are large groups of vessels for the Redeemer sword and an entire level of blights. There are even big groups of beetles there. Even the large packs of Xaurips serve for some of the big kill count weapons

 

Probably not a bad idea, KDubya, though there are some really nice weapons in there that would be painful to give up on, like the Persistence hunting bow and the saber (Resolution?) that are both found on level 4.

 

Honestly, while I like some of the soulbound weapons, I'm not a fan of the soulbound concept itself.  I don't like having to go around changing my play style and doing crazy things just for the sake of empowering these weapons.  Like having to play the user of The Redeemer in a way to get them knocked out in battle 4-5 times and revived in battle.  With my last party, I just about had to play Pallegina, my Redeemer user, without any armor or any other accessories, just to get the enemy to knock her out.  (I wouldn't play her naked.  Maybe that makes me a prude, but I put her in a set of Valian clothes.)  And the thing with having her wear no armor was that offensively, it almost made her more dangerous in a way because she had no recovery penalty, so she was swinging the Redeemer that much more often.  For a while, it was easier getting kills than it was trying to get the enemy to please, please, please knock her out so I could revive her.

 

And all those kills requirements are a pain too, because IMO it wrecks the team dynamic.  Normally, I have my party working as a team, and it doesn't matter who's getting the kills or the damage as long as the enemies are defeated.  But with these kill requirements, you have to just about stop the rest of your party from targeting certain enemies just to allow the person with the soulbound weapon to grab the kill.  And even then, sometimes, characters will ignore what you tell them to do and attack the wounded character anyways.

 

And then when all's said and done, you end up with weapons that are either nearly game imbalancingly OP, like the Redeemer, or you end up with very underwhelming weapons.

 

Don't get me wrong.  I love The Redeemer.  I love the "Holy Avenger"-ish quality of it.  The glowy greatsword of power.  I just wish that it wasn't quite so OP with its anti-vessels insta-kill ability.  Takes a lot of the challenge out if the game, IMO.

[Ichthyic]

the knockout stage of the redeemer is ridiculously easy.

go into your AI settings, and set your behavior to completely passive.

she will just stand there and get hit.

have someone with spells/scrolls/container of ashes, revive as needed.

you literally can do this in less than 2 minutes in a single combat.

ah, and btw... the redeemer is hardly OP.  the effect ONLY works on vessels, and frankly... I noticed little difference in killing speed with her using that weapon, vs using a fully upgraded Rumbalt, or even worse, the flameblade from the forge gauntlets, which actually far outperfoms any other 2h in raw damage against any enemy not resistant to fire.  it's a bit more even when you use redeemer on a barb, as the proc can trigger via carnage, but still... it's very close in comparison to the flameblade, which again just does MASSIVE damage against vessels.  The one and only exception being ancient deathguards.  I think there are exactly 6 of those in the entire game?

your second point, that the soulbound weapons are rather mediocre, is far closer to accurate.

the only two that are really any good, and I use regularly, are the very first one you get (the scepter) on a blast mage, and the stormcaller on a ranger.

oh, and the shield is certainly the best shield in the game, but it still isn't OP.

something like being able to add ONE enchant of your choice to any soubound item would likely make them much more interesting.

 

Edited April 4, 2016 by Ichthyic

[Crucis]

the knockout stage of the redeemer is ridiculously easy.

 

go into your AI settings, and set your behavior to completely passive.

 

she will just stand there and get hit.

 

have someone with spells/scrolls/container of ashes, revive as needed.

 

you literally can do this in less than 2 minutes in a single combat.

 

ah, and btw... the redeemer is hardly OP.  the effect ONLY works on vessels, and frankly... I noticed little difference in killing speed with her using that weapon, vs using a fully upgraded Rumbalt, or even worse, the flameblade from the forge gauntlets, which actually far outperfoms any other 2h in raw damage against any enemy not resistant to fire.  it's a bit more even when you use redeemer on a barb, as the proc can trigger via carnage, but still... it's very close in comparison to the flameblade, which again just does MASSIVE damage against vessels.

 

your second point, that the soulbound weapons are rather mediocre, is far closer to accurate.

 

the only two that are really any good, and I use regularly, are the very first one you get (the scepter) on a blast mage, and the stormcaller on a ranger.

 

oh, and the shield is certainly the best shield in the game, but it still isn't OP.

 

something like being able to add ONE enchant of your choice to any soubound item would likely make them much more interesting.

 

 

 

1.  I disagree on the Redeemer.  I think that its anti-vessel insta-kill ability is utterly imbalanced to the point of being game breaking.  It should be replaced with the standard vessel "slaying" effect of  (IIRC) +4 accuracy and +25% damage.  That would fix the problem quite nicely.

 

2.  Another big problem I have with the soulbound weapons is that because you can't upgrade them yourself outside of the soulbound process, you lose out on the most important upgrade, the Durgan steel upgrade.

 

3.  I agree that Stormcaller and the blue scepter are probably the two best (and easiest to get) soulbound weapons for regular and constant use.  Actually, I suppose that one could say the same for Abydon's hammer, but since you get it so late in WM2, it's of limited use, depending on how early you actually do WM2.

 

The soulbound armor is nice enough, but not really all that special IMO.  And once again, it loses out because it can't be durganized. 

 

4.  As for the Soulbound shield being the best shield in the game, I'm not so sure I agree.  I tend to think that the Little Savior small shield is outstanding, and the Outworn Buckler is very close (when upgraded to Superb), and both can be further upgraded with Durgan steel.  Having both the Little Savior and the OB in play in a party means a +10 to all defenses for everyone close by, and that's nothing to sneeze at.  And for their users, each is (assuming the superb upgraded version of OB) +25 DEFL shield (+8 for being a small shield, +12 for being Superb, and +5 for the Herald effect), with no accuracy penalty.  Sure, they may not have the snazzy effects that the dragon's max shield has, but I like the simplicity of them.  The not needing to cast bound spells to get the full value out of the shield.  So, honestly, I'll take the Little Savior over the Dragon's Maw every time, for that reason.  Not to mention that Little Savior isn't limited to only 2 classes ... 2 classes that I might prefer using a two handed weapon.

 

Heck, I got the Dragon's Maw shield with my recently completed party and fully upgraded it.  And proceeded to set it aside because I just liked my fighter using a 2H weapon more than a 1H weapon with this otherwise very nice shield.  I'd spent the entire game prior to picking up the DM shield with my PC fighter using Estocs.  And he felt almost nerfed being limited to using a 1H weapon.  Oh, I suppose if he'd gone thru the game as a sword and board fighter, I'd have seen it differently.  But he didn't.  Oh well.

[mishkoff]

There is an easy trick to all those kill requirements - simply kill animals that wander in some areas, like deers etc. Worked nice for me.

[Ichthyic]

"I disagree on the Redeemer.  I think that its anti-vessel insta-kill ability is utterly imbalanced to the point of being game breaking."

then, you're simply wrong, because you haven't actually worked out the numbers.

seriously, try out the flameblade, and tell me you don't actually kill vessels faster with that, because you will.

 

[Dorftek]

 

 

I like to save the Endless Paths for powering up soulbounds. There are large groups of vessels for the Redeemer sword and an entire level of blights. There are even big groups of beetles there. Even the large packs of Xaurips serve for some of the big kill count weapons

Probably not a bad idea, KDubya, though there are some really nice weapons in there that would be painful to give up on, like the Persistence hunting bow and the saber (Resolution?) that are both found on level 4.

 

Honestly, while I like some of the soulbound weapons, I'm not a fan of the soulbound concept itself. I don't like having to go around changing my play style and doing crazy things just for the sake of empowering these weapons. Like having to play the user of The Redeemer in a way to get them knocked out in battle 4-5 times and revived in battle. With my last party, I just about had to play Pallegina, my Redeemer user, without any armor or any other accessories, just to get the enemy to knock her out. (I wouldn't play her naked. Maybe that makes me a prude, but I put her in a set of Valian clothes.) And the thing with having her wear no armor was that offensively, it almost made her more dangerous in a way because she had no recovery penalty, so she was swinging the Redeemer that much more often. For a while, it was easier getting kills than it was trying to get the enemy to please, please, please knock her out so I could revive her.

 

And all those kills requirements are a pain too, because IMO it wrecks the team dynamic. Normally, I have my party working as a team, and it doesn't matter who's getting the kills or the damage as long as the enemies are defeated. But with these kill requirements, you have to just about stop the rest of your party from targeting certain enemies just to allow the person with the soulbound weapon to grab the kill. And even then, sometimes, characters will ignore what you tell them to do and attack the wounded character anyways.

 

And then when all's said and done, you end up with weapons that are either nearly game imbalancingly OP, like the Redeemer, or you end up with very underwhelming weapons.

 

Don't get me wrong. I love The Redeemer. I love the "Holy Avenger"-ish quality of it. The glowy greatsword of power. I just wish that it wasn't quite so OP with its anti-vessels insta-kill ability. Takes a lot of the challenge out if the game, IMO.

I dunno, maybe my luck was just bad but I found the redeemer quite underwhelming and I was even trying it out on a Barbarian. It didn't proc very often so two handers like Mabecs Morningstar still felt better.

I'm having similar experience with stormcaller on my ranger right now, it rarely procs but the shock dmg and shock DR reduction makes it worth it. The soulbound mace looks utterly useless. The grey sweeper was decent on barbarian.

Greenstone staff I haven't tried yet but all in all I'd say that the soulbound weapons aren't OP and are generally worse then durganized unique weapons such as Tallgrass/Persistence/Tidefall/Drawn in spring etc etc

[Crucis]

"I disagree on the Redeemer.  I think that its anti-vessel insta-kill ability is utterly imbalanced to the point of being game breaking."

 

then, you're simply wrong, because you haven't actually worked out the numbers.

 

seriously, try out the flameblade, and tell me you don't actually kill vessels faster with that, because you will.

 

 

 

I don't use the flameblade from those gloves, because I never REMEMBER to use it.  It's why I just plain dislike items with spells that are bound to them, because they're only useful *IF* you remember to cast the bound spell.  Which I almost never do.

 

On top of that, if you look more closely at the flameblade, it doesn't have any accuracy bonuses, IIRC.  So using it will cause you to incur significant accuracy "penalties" later in the game when you're using nothing worse than Exceptional or better weapons.

 

 

As for the Redeemer, we will have to agree to disagree.  I think that its insta-kill of vessels utterly trashes game balance in those latter parts of the game where there are vessels that are supposed to be extremely difficult enemies.  The Redeemer just turns those battles into jokes.  Seriously, I've played two parties through to the end and fought Thaos with Pallegina armed with The Redeemer.  And both times, she completely blew away Woedica's Judges so quickly that it removed even the slightest hint of challenge from the battle.

 

I'll admit that when there are no vessels around, The Redeemer is nothing special.  But when there are, it's a virtual insta-death machine.  And that's the problem.  It's completely imbalanced.  Instant death for vessels.  Merely a nice, but unenchantable Superb great sword against non-vessels.   I honestly think that the Redeemer would have been a better, more balanced weapon if it didn't have a singular focus on vessels, but was just an all-around excellent weapon.  Instead of (when fully upgraded) being a Superb weapon, maybe it should have been a Legendary weapon.  And instead of Holy Power castable 3/rest, make it +2 Might whenever it's wielded.  (I just don't like bound spells that are only useful if one remembers to cast them.)  And so on...

[JerekKruger]

I think against your average vessel you'll do better (or at least as well) with a good non-soulbound two-hander. Where the Redeemer really shines is against really tough vessels. You activate destroy vessels against an Eyeless One and it's a pretty huge help, you activate it against a Battery Defender and meh, who cares.

[Crucis]

 

 

I like to save the Endless Paths for powering up soulbounds. There are large groups of vessels for the Redeemer sword and an entire level of blights. There are even big groups of beetles there. Even the large packs of Xaurips serve for some of the big kill count weapons

Probably not a bad idea, KDubya, though there are some really nice weapons in there that would be painful to give up on, like the Persistence hunting bow and the saber (Resolution?) that are both found on level 4.

 

Honestly, while I like some of the soulbound weapons, I'm not a fan of the soulbound concept itself. I don't like having to go around changing my play style and doing crazy things just for the sake of empowering these weapons. Like having to play the user of The Redeemer in a way to get them knocked out in battle 4-5 times and revived in battle. With my last party, I just about had to play Pallegina, my Redeemer user, without any armor or any other accessories, just to get the enemy to knock her out. (I wouldn't play her naked. Maybe that makes me a prude, but I put her in a set of Valian clothes.) And the thing with having her wear no armor was that offensively, it almost made her more dangerous in a way because she had no recovery penalty, so she was swinging the Redeemer that much more often. For a while, it was easier getting kills than it was trying to get the enemy to please, please, please knock her out so I could revive her.

 

And all those kills requirements are a pain too, because IMO it wrecks the team dynamic. Normally, I have my party working as a team, and it doesn't matter who's getting the kills or the damage as long as the enemies are defeated. But with these kill requirements, you have to just about stop the rest of your party from targeting certain enemies just to allow the person with the soulbound weapon to grab the kill. And even then, sometimes, characters will ignore what you tell them to do and attack the wounded character anyways.

 

And then when all's said and done, you end up with weapons that are either nearly game imbalancingly OP, like the Redeemer, or you end up with very underwhelming weapons.

 

Don't get me wrong. I love The Redeemer. I love the "Holy Avenger"-ish quality of it. The glowy greatsword of power. I just wish that it wasn't quite so OP with its anti-vessels insta-kill ability. Takes a lot of the challenge out if the game, IMO.

I dunno, maybe my luck was just bad but I found the redeemer quite underwhelming and I was even trying it out on a Barbarian. It didn't proc very often so two handers like Mabecs Morningstar still felt better.

I'm having similar experience with stormcaller on my ranger right now, it rarely procs but the shock dmg and shock DR reduction makes it worth it. The soulbound mace looks utterly useless. The grey sweeper was decent on barbarian.

Greenstone staff I haven't tried yet but all in all I'd say that the soulbound weapons aren't OP and are generally worse then durganized unique weapons such as Tallgrass/Persistence/Tidefall/Drawn in spring etc etc

 

 

Stormcaller seems to proc often enough for me, but I agree that it's normal, constantly on abilities are quite excellent all by themselves.  Simply being a Piercing/Shock weapon all by itself is quite special.  And the -6 Shock DR is a nice bonus as well.

 

As for The Redeemer, I haven't used it as an all the time weapon.  I'd have Pallegina switch to another weapon when there were no vessels around.  Usually either Tidefall, or the God(something) hammer (to use with the Outworn Buckler).

 

The Grey Sleeper, like many other soulbound weapons, is unremarkable.  I will say that it's a bit amusing when it summons some vessels to fight at your side.  Honestly, at the levels you'd be fighting at with the Sleeper, I'm not sure that those vessels are good for anything but cannon fodder.  But they're still mildly amusing when they appear.

 

 

 

[Crucis]

I think against your average vessel you'll do better (or at least as well) with a good non-soulbound two-hander. Where the Redeemer really shines is against really tough vessels. You activate destroy vessels against an Eyeless One and it's a pretty huge help, you activate it against a Battery Defender and meh, who cares.

 

I agree that on the whole, triggering an insta-kill on tougher vessels is more valuable than against lesser vessels.  I will say in defense of using it against lesser vessels that the second upgrade level does require you to kill 10 vessels (or 50 enemies).  So if you happen to be going through Durgan's Battery while you're in the midst of the upgrade process, you'll obviously be very happy to insta-kill any vessel you can to get those 10 kills. 

[JerekKruger]

I will say in defense of using it against lesser vessels that the second upgrade level does require you to kill 10 vessels (or 50 enemies).  So if you happen to be going through Durgan's Battery while you're in the midst of the upgrade process, you'll obviously be very happy to insta-kill any vessel you can to get those 10 kills. 

 

Oh yeah, definitely. That's exactly how I do it to be honest, although thinking about it it might also be worthwhile to level it in Galvino's Workshop too.

 

I think, out of the five WM 1 soulbound weapons I only rate Stormcaller and the Redeemer as decent, and the Redeemer primarily because of the proc. The Greenstone staff sees nearly no use in most my playthroughs, though I usually equip it on Hiravias since it seems fitting, and I only use the Grey Sleeper on Eder until I get a better weapon for him. I might try to make use of Nightshroud on my current playthrough, since I intend to use Devil, but I'm not sure it really compares to other options for her.

[Kaylon]

The Redeemer is very strong but you need good accuracy because it procs only on hits/crits. It's simply a godsend against all the animats with high DR/endurance.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Kaylon

[bigwillystyle]

 

 

On top of that, if you look more closely at the flameblade, it doesn't have any accuracy bonuses, IIRC.  So using it will cause you to incur significant accuracy "penalties" later in the game when you're using nothing worse than Exceptional or better weapons.

 

 

 

For what it's worth, Firebrand is coded as "Fine".  I notice a ton of grazes when using it with a Barbarian, but that said ... the grazes are on the order of 35 damage.  I am trying to figure out the best way to use this with Maneha at the moment.

[Blades of Vanatar]

Tidefall is my plan B. Redeemer plan C. Plan A is always Firebrand. It is just devastating.

[Blades of Vanatar]

Tidefall is my plan B. Redeemer plan C. Plan A is always Firebrand. It is just devastating in the hands of a high accuracy warrior.

[Elric Galad]

Another soulbound leveling tip : this one works on levels requiring to trigger a particular effect, like Soulbound Scepter (10% Domination), or Nightshroud (10% Blind) :

 

You can level them by hitting your teamates ! So, before you go to rest, be sure to hit them till they have almost not health.

 

The scepter last level was a pain to level up on my druid. I realized this only for the last proc...

[Boeroer]

Firebrand has Damaging III, which includes +4 ACC nowadays.

 

The Redeemer's destroy vessel enchantment only works on vessels who are of the same level as or a lower level than you. So it won't instantly destroy tough vessels like Death Guards or Eyeless if your level is too low.

 

A barb who took Blood Thirst (and Bloodlust) and uses either one of these weapon is fun against big mobs. Every time you kill (includes destroy) your recovery will be 0. For every two kills you will get a 20 sec haste that stacks with frenzy.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Boeroer

[Giantevilhead]

I like to level the Unlabored Blade against those spiders that can cast moonwell. They're not very powerful and they constantly heal themselves so you can keep hitting them until they run out of health.